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RE: [steiner] introduction/welcome

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  • Durward Starman
    *******Welcome to the group, Linda. Well, if you have a background in Freud, you know that his orthodox scientific point of view rejected all spiritual
    Message 1 of 18 , Aug 28, 2009
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      *******Welcome to the group, Linda. Well, if you have a background in Freud, you know that his orthodox scientific point of view rejected all spiritual experiences as mere illusons, while his pupil Jung tried to go beyond those shackles on thinking. Steiner went much further than Jung--- so Jung is well-known in the world because he didn't go too far and stayed fairly acceptable to academia, where Steiner went too far for most 20th century academics to accept. But if one wants to understand spiritual things like Buddhism and Christianity, Jungian thought can only take you so far. I think working with what Steiner gave out can lead to much more understanding of ancient religions, as well as the spiritual path for today. Likewise, of all the people who worked out of theosophy, I'd say Steiner's contributions have been the most fruitful (the schools, farms, arts, anthroposophic medicine, etc.)
       
        Our list is seldom used. Feel free to start any discussion you like and perhaps people may join in---except, please, no discussion of politics, which has a negative effect on conversation on the internet, you may have seen!
       
         I mainly work with Astrosophy, the renewal of astrology, which is a multidimensional psychology as well as leading over into the physical dimension as well. For example, in case you haven't read about it yet, Steiner also revived the old idea of the 4 Elements as Jung did, but where Jung named them the "Intuitive", "Sensation" etc. 4 personality types, Steiner described 4 types of formative forces in nature which he called the 4 Ethers, and that each of these 4 temperaments or personalty types had a preponderance of one or another "ether": Warmth Ether, Light Ether, Sound Ether (also called Chemical or Number Ether---which is the one Freud's other pupil Reich discovered and called "orgone energy") and Life Ether. Along with inclining people to psychologically be a certain way, these also have physical effects--- so, for instance, what in past centuries were called "fiery" people or the "Choleric temperament" have a lot of Warmth Ether, and one characteristic of it is to contract things in space--- so cholerics tend to be small in stature. Hence the shortness of powerful leaders like Napoleon, Augustus, Hitler, etc.
       
      Starman

      www.DrStarman.com


       

      To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
      From: l.appleby128@...
      Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 19:45:25 +0000
      Subject: [steiner] introduction

       
      Hello!

      I have just joined the Steiner group and would like to tell you a bit about myself.

      I am interested in Buddhism, Christianity and theosophy.. I am particularly keen on the writing of Alice Bailey. My spiritual experiences are of connection to the elements, healing worldwide and synchronicity. I experience a spirit which joins me to all mankind and which I can heal to bring the world to peace and harmony.  I would really like to understand this more.My background is more in the theories of Freud, Jung and Klein. Do you think Steiner has a place for such phenomena and what would his analysis be?

      Yours,
      Linda Appleby

      www.lindaappleby. com/connections    for 'Interconnection' CD
      lindaappleby128atbt .blog.co. uk




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    • robertsmason_99
      ... Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but Alice Bailey was working under very dubious influences, to put it mildly. There is a direct line from her to
      Message 2 of 18 , Aug 28, 2009
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        --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, L APPLEBY <l.appleby128@...> wrote:
        > . . . I am particularly keen on the writing of Alice Bailey. . . .

        Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but Alice
        Bailey was working under very dubious influences,
        to put it mildly. There is a direct line from
        her to Benjamin Creme's bogus "Maitreya". To
        refer to my own words:
        <http://www.altanthroinfo.9f.com/ahriman.htm#theemergenceofmaitreya>

        Another word: *discernment*.

        Robert Mason
      • stephenm142
        Are you familiar with Guenther Wachsmuth s Etheric Formative Forces Book and the discussion of the 4 Ethers in Earth and Man s evolution? I can post excerpts
        Message 3 of 18 , Aug 28, 2009
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          Are you familiar with Guenther Wachsmuth's "Etheric Formative Forces' Book and the discussion of the 4 Ethers in Earth and Man's evolution? I can post excerpts for discussion. I have scanned it and made a readable PDF eBook. Do you have respect for Wachsmuth's work along these lines? Do you know if he ever worked with the other Astrosophical great Willi Sucher?

          - Stephen

          ==========================
          [Starman said:]
          Steiner also revived the old idea of the 4 Elements as Jung did, but where Jung named them the "Intuitive", "Sensation" etc. 4 personality types, Steiner described 4 types of formative forces in nature which he called the 4 Ethers, and that each of these 4 temperaments or personalty types had a preponderance of one or another "ether": Warmth Ether, Light Ether, Sound Ether (also called Chemical or Number Ether---which is the one Freud's other pupil Reich discovered and called "orgone energy") and Life Ether. Along with inclining people to psychologically be a certain way, these also have physical effects---
        • Durward Starman
          *******Yes, in fact I sponsored a reprint of his book on the 50th anniversary of its publication in English (1936), when I found out it had been out of print
          Message 4 of 18 , Aug 28, 2009
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            *******Yes, in fact I sponsored a reprint of his book on the 50th anniversary of its publication in English (1936), when I found out it had been out of print ever since, apparently because of the split in the Society where Wachsmuth and Ita Wegman and the others went to war with each other. It's a very important book which I believe is once again out of print. I have his "Reincarnation As A Phenomenon of Metamorphosis" also. You could post the book to our Files section if you wish.
             
               Somehow, Wachsmuth and Albert Steffen wound up in one faction 10 years after Steiner's death and Ita Wegman and Dr. Elizabeth Vreede wound up on the other. The two women were kicked out of the Society even though they continued to live right down the street from the Goetheanum and carry on their work. (Both were Dutch, and the Anthroposophical Society of Holland separated itself in protest over their treatment. Dr. Vreede was the head of the Mathematical-Astronomical Section, and had been trained directly by Steiner at reading horoscopes, as can be seen by their remarks to each other in the Curative Education lectures. After she was expelled, that work suffered. Her 2 assistants were Joachim Schultze, author of "Movements and Rythms of the Stars", and Willi Sucher. Neither were fired, but not long afterwards Sucher left for California, convinced from these experiences that those at the Goetheanum would not likely start a new astrology, so he worked on it and published his books himself.
             
               The art and science of Astrosophy has suffered from those events of 1935, and we need to pick up and go forward now.
             
            -starman

            www.DrStarman.com


             

            To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
            From: celestial_vision@...
            Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 19:26:14 +0000
            Subject: [steiner] Re: introduction/welcome

             
            Are you familiar with Guenther Wachsmuth's "Etheric Formative Forces' Book and the discussion of the 4 Ethers in Earth and Man's evolution? I can post excerpts for discussion. I have scanned it and made a readable PDF eBook. Do you have respect for Wachsmuth's work along these lines? Do you know if he ever worked with the other Astrosophical great Willi Sucher?

            - Stephen

            ============ ========= =====
            [Starman said:]
            Steiner also revived the old idea of the 4 Elements as Jung did, but where Jung named them the "Intuitive", "Sensation" etc. 4 personality types, Steiner described 4 types of formative forces in nature which he called the 4 Ethers, and that each of these 4 temperaments or personalty types had a preponderance of one or another "ether": Warmth Ether, Light Ether, Sound Ether (also called Chemical or Number Ether---which is the one Freud's other pupil Reich discovered and called "orgone energy") and Life Ether. Along with inclining people to psychologically be a certain way, these also have physical effects---




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          • stephenm142
            Very interesting post Starman. If it was reprinted in 1986 then I have no evidence of that, and I have done extensive research, do you have a publisher or any
            Message 5 of 18 , Aug 31, 2009
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              Very interesting post Starman.
              If it was reprinted in 1986 then I have no evidence of that, and I have done extensive research, do you have a publisher or any specific information so that I might find it? As you know any reprint must be in color because of all the original color diagrams that make no sense in black and white. I am trying to get the publisher at Temple Lodge to reprint it now. I believe it is important, and I am trying to study it.
              I just read the memorandum which details the March 27/28 GA meeting where Vreede, Wegman, all of the Dutch and much of the English society let by Kauffman (Adams) were booted. Zeylmans was booted as well and Walter Stein's mischievousness was all over the matter. It's a very sad commentary and a great wonder that the society survived in any shape or form whatsoever(I know there are those who say it didn't).
              I now have the original typescript publications Man and the Stars, etc by Sucher that I will also scan and post if anyone is interested. As far as posting the Wachsmuth Formative forces book, it came out very large and I am in the process of trying to use Adobe to trim the size of the pdf - is there a file size limit?
              - Stephen


              --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > *******Yes, in fact I sponsored a reprint of his book on the 50th anniversary of its publication in English (1936), when I found out it had been out of print ever since, apparently because of the split in the Society where Wachsmuth and Ita Wegman and the others went to war with each other. It's a very important book which I believe is once again out of print. I have his "Reincarnation As A Phenomenon of Metamorphosis" also. You could post the book to our Files section if you wish.
              >
              >
              >
              > Somehow, Wachsmuth and Albert Steffen wound up in one faction 10 years after Steiner's death and Ita Wegman and Dr. Elizabeth Vreede wound up on the other. The two women were kicked out of the Society even though they continued to live right down the street from the Goetheanum and carry on their work. (Both were Dutch, and the Anthroposophical Society of Holland separated itself in protest over their treatment. Dr. Vreede was the head of the Mathematical-Astronomical Section, and had been trained directly by Steiner at reading horoscopes, as can be seen by their remarks to each other in the Curative Education lectures. After she was expelled, that work suffered. Her 2 assistants were Joachim Schultze, author of "Movements and Rythms of the Stars", and Willi Sucher. Neither were fired, but not long afterwards Sucher left for California, convinced from these experiences that those at the Goetheanum would not likely start a new astrology, so he worked on it and published his books himself.
              >
              >
              >
              > The art and science of Astrosophy has suffered from those events of 1935, and we need to pick up and go forward now.
              >
              >
              >
              > -starman
              >
              > www.DrStarman.com
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