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RE: [steiner] RE: RS re true internationalism

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  • Durward Starman
    *******Well, I have no idea what the WC is, who an anthroposophical Judas is, and I m willing to bet no one else in this list does. It illustrates what I
    Message 1 of 5 , Sep 2, 2008
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      *******Well, I have no idea what the 'WC' is, who an anthroposophical 'Judas' is, and I'm willing to bet no one else in this list does. It illustrates what I mean by not cross-posting: sounds like any healthy approach to the science of the spirit has been poisoned in some places on the internet by strange fixed opinions. You'd have to explain what the devil they (and you) are talking about for anyone sane to follow, since none of that has any relation to the study of Steiner, the practice of anthroposophy in the arts, schools, etc.
       
         Look, we're a tiny movement that most people could care less about. If we can be made to seem like a wierdo cult, people might listen --- but then they'd say, "Well what have these people done?" "Start schools, farms with their kooky ideas." "Yawn." I don't think anyone's going to succeed in enflaming public opinion against us easily. If people hadn't sought government money for Waldorf schools we wouldn't have anyone ranting about us maybe being a cult. But one of the 6 preparatory exercises is courage, not listening to fear. Responding to slander is important, but not letting evil people determine your attitude.

       Starman
      www.DrStarman.com




      >>It's not really worth paying attention to except
      as a symptom of the 'politics of personal
      destruction' practiced these days ----don't debate
      a person's ideas, imply they're a 'Nazi', a
      'racist', etc. and that will dispose of them to
      the ignorant--- but when Steiner is slandered, we
      as anthroposophists are required to respond.
      There's lots more that could be quoted to refute
      this libel, but I wanted to make it clear there
      aren't lots of people talking about this
      accusation, it's the creation of a few with an
      axe to grind.<<

      Robert writes:

      I was alluding mainly to the “talk” in the Yahoo
      groups such as the WC, much of which has spilled
      over into the Anthro groups, thanks in part to
      Tom. But I was also alluding to the wider world,
      both cyberspace and meatspace. I gather, again
      from Tom in part, that there is plenty of such
      talk over in Europe, especially Germany. And, as
      you probably know, in much of Europe, especially
      Germany, accusations of “racism” can have serious
      legal consequences.

      And I think it would be a mistake to assume that
      all the people doing that “talking” don’t “know”
      or haven’t “studied” Steiner, in the ordinary
      sense. Some of the people over in the WC have
      obviously read a lot of Steiner, probably more
      than have most Anthros. I look in over there once
      in a while, and I keep seeing Steiner-saids that I
      hadn’t seen before. And now we have our self-
      proclaimed Anthro “Judas”, who seems to know his
      way around in Anthro circles in the US, and
      apparently also in Europe.

      .



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    • Robert Mason
      ... .
      Message 2 of 5 , Sep 4, 2008
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        To Starman, who wrote:

        >>Well, I have no idea what the 'WC' is . . .
        .<<

        Robert writes:

        Gee, I thought everyone on the Anthro Net knew
        about the WC. That means the "Waldorf Critics"
        e-list (a.k.a. *The Hole*, *The Snake Nest*):
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/messages>

        It's an e-arm of PLANS ("People for Legal and
        Non-sectarian Schools"), an anti-Waldorf (and
        anti-Anthro) group based in the California Bay
        Area, but active in a much wider area. They
        make trouble for Waldorf schools in this
        country, and their like-minded affiliates
        (formal or informal) in Europe do pretty much
        the same over there.
        <http://www.waldorfcritics.org>

        Starman wrote:

        >>. . . . who an anthroposophical 'Judas' is,
        and I'm willing to bet no one else in this list
        does.<<

        Robert writes:

        But someone else here does indeed. I was
        thinking maybe he would rise to the bait and
        own up, but apparently he's not . . . so . . .
        .

        I was referring to Tom Mellett (a.k.a. *Father
        Tom, Judas Priest*), an fringe participant with
        the WC and like e-endeavors in Germany. (He is
        fluent in German.) I quote him from another
        Yahoo Anthro e-list (public archives):

        "In other words, before you have resurrection,
        ya gotta have death. Now what I see dying is
        not the MOVEMENT of anthroposophy, but the
        Society, all the external forms that
        anthroposphy has taken since Steiner died ---
        those that are beholden to the old forms. . . .
        That's what has to die and if it refuses to
        die, then the next best thing is to betray it.
        Hence my augmented title of Father Tom Judas
        Priest. If ya can't kill it, then betray it!"
        <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/anthroposophy_world/message/53>

        Starman wrote:

        >>Look, we're a tiny movement that most people
        could care less about. If we can be made to
        seem like a wierdo cult, people might listen --
        - but then they'd say, "Well what have these
        people done?" "Start schools, farms with their
        kooky ideas." "Yawn." I don't think anyone's
        going to succeed in enflaming public opinion
        against us
        easily.<<

        Robert writes:

        The WC and PLANS are making a pretty good run
        at it. And probably more so are their cohorts
        in some parts of Europe, where Anthroposophy is
        more known, and where there are more legal
        weapons to use against it. Tom could tell you
        a lot more about what's going on over there.

        Starman wrote:

        >>If people hadn't sought government money for
        Waldorf schools we wouldn't have anyone ranting
        about us maybe being a cult.<<

        Robert writes:

        I'm not very familiar with the ongoing
        practical side of Waldorf, but I'm aware that
        there is a division of opinion about seeking
        gov't funds. The purists say, "No, no, never;
        Steiner said . . . ." But the compromisers try
        to adapt to the reality that most people simply
        can't afford private education are their
        children are trapped in the public schools.
        And in some countries "private education" as we
        have it in the US is not legally possible.

        But whatever the Waldorf movement does or
        doesn't do, we can be assured that
        Anthroposophy will have active and dedicated
        enemies anyway.

        Robert Mason
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