Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: RS re true internationalism

Expand Messages
  • Robert Mason
    ... of Rudolf Steiner, so are not talking about him at all. Of those who know Steiner and have studied him, not one talks about him as racist. He was against
    Message 1 of 5 , Sep 2, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      To Starman, who wrote:

      >>First, most people in the world have never heard
      of Rudolf Steiner, so are not talking about him at
      all. Of those who know Steiner and have studied
      him, not one talks about him as racist. He was
      against racism and anti-Semitism forthrightly his
      whole life, as this quote you posted helps to
      demonstrate.

      >>So, what does this mean that there's a lot of
      "talk" about Steiner's racism? Answer: a tiny
      number of people who are virulently anti-Steiner
      are the ones doing this talking. In other words, a
      small number of cranks. . . .

      >>It's not really worth paying attention to except
      as a symptom of the 'politics of personal
      destruction' practiced these days ----don't debate
      a person's ideas, imply they're a 'Nazi', a
      'racist', etc. and that will dispose of them to
      the ignorant--- but when Steiner is slandered, we
      as anthroposophists are required to respond.
      There's lots more that could be quoted to refute
      this libel, but I wanted to make it clear there
      aren't lots of people talking about this
      accusation, it's the creation of a few with an
      axe to grind.<<

      Robert writes:

      I was alluding mainly to the “talk” in the Yahoo
      groups such as the WC, much of which has spilled
      over into the Anthro groups, thanks in part to
      Tom. But I was also alluding to the wider world,
      both cyberspace and meatspace. I gather, again
      from Tom in part, that there is plenty of such
      talk over in Europe, especially Germany. And, as
      you probably know, in much of Europe, especially
      Germany, accusations of “racism” can have serious
      legal consequences.

      And I think it would be a mistake to assume that
      all the people doing that “talking” don’t “know”
      or haven’t “studied” Steiner, in the ordinary
      sense. Some of the people over in the WC have
      obviously read a lot of Steiner, probably more
      than have most Anthros. I look in over there once
      in a while, and I keep seeing Steiner-saids that I
      hadn’t seen before. And now we have our self-
      proclaimed Anthro “Judas”, who seems to know his
      way around in Anthro circles in the US, and
      apparently also in Europe.

      I don’t know about their numbers, but I wouldn’t
      want to underestimate these people or the damage
      they might do.

      Robert M
    • Durward Starman
      *******Well, I have no idea what the WC is, who an anthroposophical Judas is, and I m willing to bet no one else in this list does. It illustrates what I
      Message 2 of 5 , Sep 2, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        *******Well, I have no idea what the 'WC' is, who an anthroposophical 'Judas' is, and I'm willing to bet no one else in this list does. It illustrates what I mean by not cross-posting: sounds like any healthy approach to the science of the spirit has been poisoned in some places on the internet by strange fixed opinions. You'd have to explain what the devil they (and you) are talking about for anyone sane to follow, since none of that has any relation to the study of Steiner, the practice of anthroposophy in the arts, schools, etc.
         
           Look, we're a tiny movement that most people could care less about. If we can be made to seem like a wierdo cult, people might listen --- but then they'd say, "Well what have these people done?" "Start schools, farms with their kooky ideas." "Yawn." I don't think anyone's going to succeed in enflaming public opinion against us easily. If people hadn't sought government money for Waldorf schools we wouldn't have anyone ranting about us maybe being a cult. But one of the 6 preparatory exercises is courage, not listening to fear. Responding to slander is important, but not letting evil people determine your attitude.

         Starman
        www.DrStarman.com




        >>It's not really worth paying attention to except
        as a symptom of the 'politics of personal
        destruction' practiced these days ----don't debate
        a person's ideas, imply they're a 'Nazi', a
        'racist', etc. and that will dispose of them to
        the ignorant--- but when Steiner is slandered, we
        as anthroposophists are required to respond.
        There's lots more that could be quoted to refute
        this libel, but I wanted to make it clear there
        aren't lots of people talking about this
        accusation, it's the creation of a few with an
        axe to grind.<<

        Robert writes:

        I was alluding mainly to the “talk” in the Yahoo
        groups such as the WC, much of which has spilled
        over into the Anthro groups, thanks in part to
        Tom. But I was also alluding to the wider world,
        both cyberspace and meatspace. I gather, again
        from Tom in part, that there is plenty of such
        talk over in Europe, especially Germany. And, as
        you probably know, in much of Europe, especially
        Germany, accusations of “racism” can have serious
        legal consequences.

        And I think it would be a mistake to assume that
        all the people doing that “talking” don’t “know”
        or haven’t “studied” Steiner, in the ordinary
        sense. Some of the people over in the WC have
        obviously read a lot of Steiner, probably more
        than have most Anthros. I look in over there once
        in a while, and I keep seeing Steiner-saids that I
        hadn’t seen before. And now we have our self-
        proclaimed Anthro “Judas”, who seems to know his
        way around in Anthro circles in the US, and
        apparently also in Europe.

        .



        See what people are saying about Windows Live. Check out featured posts. Check It Out!
      • Robert Mason
        ... .
        Message 3 of 5 , Sep 4, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          To Starman, who wrote:

          >>Well, I have no idea what the 'WC' is . . .
          .<<

          Robert writes:

          Gee, I thought everyone on the Anthro Net knew
          about the WC. That means the "Waldorf Critics"
          e-list (a.k.a. *The Hole*, *The Snake Nest*):
          <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/messages>

          It's an e-arm of PLANS ("People for Legal and
          Non-sectarian Schools"), an anti-Waldorf (and
          anti-Anthro) group based in the California Bay
          Area, but active in a much wider area. They
          make trouble for Waldorf schools in this
          country, and their like-minded affiliates
          (formal or informal) in Europe do pretty much
          the same over there.
          <http://www.waldorfcritics.org>

          Starman wrote:

          >>. . . . who an anthroposophical 'Judas' is,
          and I'm willing to bet no one else in this list
          does.<<

          Robert writes:

          But someone else here does indeed. I was
          thinking maybe he would rise to the bait and
          own up, but apparently he's not . . . so . . .
          .

          I was referring to Tom Mellett (a.k.a. *Father
          Tom, Judas Priest*), an fringe participant with
          the WC and like e-endeavors in Germany. (He is
          fluent in German.) I quote him from another
          Yahoo Anthro e-list (public archives):

          "In other words, before you have resurrection,
          ya gotta have death. Now what I see dying is
          not the MOVEMENT of anthroposophy, but the
          Society, all the external forms that
          anthroposphy has taken since Steiner died ---
          those that are beholden to the old forms. . . .
          That's what has to die and if it refuses to
          die, then the next best thing is to betray it.
          Hence my augmented title of Father Tom Judas
          Priest. If ya can't kill it, then betray it!"
          <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/anthroposophy_world/message/53>

          Starman wrote:

          >>Look, we're a tiny movement that most people
          could care less about. If we can be made to
          seem like a wierdo cult, people might listen --
          - but then they'd say, "Well what have these
          people done?" "Start schools, farms with their
          kooky ideas." "Yawn." I don't think anyone's
          going to succeed in enflaming public opinion
          against us
          easily.<<

          Robert writes:

          The WC and PLANS are making a pretty good run
          at it. And probably more so are their cohorts
          in some parts of Europe, where Anthroposophy is
          more known, and where there are more legal
          weapons to use against it. Tom could tell you
          a lot more about what's going on over there.

          Starman wrote:

          >>If people hadn't sought government money for
          Waldorf schools we wouldn't have anyone ranting
          about us maybe being a cult.<<

          Robert writes:

          I'm not very familiar with the ongoing
          practical side of Waldorf, but I'm aware that
          there is a division of opinion about seeking
          gov't funds. The purists say, "No, no, never;
          Steiner said . . . ." But the compromisers try
          to adapt to the reality that most people simply
          can't afford private education are their
          children are trapped in the public schools.
          And in some countries "private education" as we
          have it in the US is not legally possible.

          But whatever the Waldorf movement does or
          doesn't do, we can be assured that
          Anthroposophy will have active and dedicated
          enemies anyway.

          Robert Mason
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.