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RS re true internationalism

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  • Robert Mason
    To all: Considering all the talk about Steiner’s alleged racism, it might be very worthwhile to look at a lecture that has just appeared at the eLIb:
    Message 1 of 5 , Aug 28, 2008
      To all:

      Considering all the talk about Steiner’s
      alleged racism, it might be very worthwhile to
      look at a lecture that has just appeared at the
      eLIb:

      Lecture: The Peoples of the Earth in the Light
      of Anthroposophy
      Lecture: 10th March, 1920 | Stuttgart |
      GA0335

      Here RS explains how a true internationalism
      must appreciate the differences among peoples.
      Of course, the lecture deserves to be read in
      full, but here are just a few relevant snips:

      “. . . . the particular qualities which make
      one people great are not possessed by the
      others, and we can understand these qualities
      only when we are able to love the other Peoples
      and appreciate the full value of their
      particular gifts. It is just when we penetrate
      into the inner nature and essence of the
      Peoples of the Earth that we find the
      differences of their individual natures. And
      then we realise that the all-embracing sphere
      of the ‘human’ is not expressed in its entirety
      through any individual man, or through the
      members of any one race, but only through the
      whole of mankind. If anyone would understand
      what he is in his whole being, let him study
      the characteristics of the different peoples of
      the Earth. Let him assimilate the qualities
      which he himself cannot possess by nature, for
      only then will he become fully man. Full and
      complete manhood is a possibility for everyone.
      Everyone should pay heed to what lives in his
      own inner being. The revelation vouchsafed to
      other peoples is not his and he must find it in
      them. In his heart he feels and knows that this
      is necessary. If he discovers what is great and
      characteristic in the other peoples and allows
      this to penetrate deeply into his own being, he
      will realise that the purpose of his existence
      cannot be fulfilled without these other
      qualities, because they are also part of his
      own inner striving. The possibility of full
      manhood lies in every individual, but it must
      be brought to fulfilment by understanding the
      special characteristics of the different
      peoples spread over the Earth.”

      “Whether we apply this to smaller races and
      individual peoples, or confine ourselves to
      what is typical everywhere we see that man in
      his whole nature is not expressed in the
      members of any one people or race. Full manhood
      is as yet only an urge within us, but this urge
      must grow into a love for all humanity, for
      those qualities we do not ourselves possess by
      nature but can acquire if we sincerely seek for
      knowledge of the nature of other peoples of the
      Earth.”

      “True internationalism, by contrast, springs
      from a love which goes out to all peoples and
      races in order that the light received from
      them may be kindled in the deeds, concepts and
      creations of one's own people. Each individual
      race must so find its place in the great chorus
      of the peoples on the Earth that it contributes
      to the full understanding which can alone unite
      them all in real and mutual knowledge.”
    • Durward Starman
      *******Also, I d like to correct the impression left by this statement. First, most people in the world have never heard of Rudolf Steiner, so are not talking
      Message 2 of 5 , Aug 31, 2008
        *******Also, I'd like to correct the impression left by this statement. First, most people in the world have never heard of Rudolf Steiner, so are not talking about him at all. Of those who know Steiner and have studied him, not one talks about him as racist. He was against racism and anti-Semitism forthrightly his whole life, as this quote you posted helps to demonstrate.
         
           So, what does this mean that there's a lot of "talk" about Steiner's racism? Answer: a tiny number of people who are virulently anti-Steiner are the ones doing this talking. In other words, a small number of cranks. Same thing wiith Albert Schweitzer: even though he sacrificed his whole life to heal poor Africans, I've heard him attacked for supposedly calling some working for him "lazy niggers" in his old age.
         
            It's not really worth paying attention to except as a symptom of the 'politics of personal destruction' practiced these days ----don't debate a person's ideas, imply they're a 'Nazi', a 'racist', etc. and that will dispose of them to the ignorant--- but when Steiner is slandered, we as anthroposophists are required to respond. There's lots more that could be quoted to refute this libel, but I wanted to make it clear there aren't lots of people talking about this accusation, it's the creation of a few with an axe to grind.
         
        Starman

        www.DrStarman.com


        Subject: [steiner] RS re true internationalism


        To all:

        Considering all the talk about Steiner’s
        alleged racism, it might be very worthwhile to
        look at a lecture that has just appeared at the
        eLIb:

        Lecture: The Peoples of the Earth in the Light
        of Anthroposophy
        Lecture: 10th March, 1920 | Stuttgart |
        GA0335

        Here RS explains how a true internationalism
        must appreciate the differences among peoples.
        Of course, the lecture deserves to be read in
        full, but here are just a few relevant snips:

        “. . . . the particular qualities which make
        one people great are not possessed by the
        others, and we can understand these qualities
        only when we are able to love the other Peoples
        and appreciate the full value of their
        particular gifts. It is just when we penetrate
        into the inner nature and essence of the
        Peoples of the Earth that we find the
        differences of their individual natures. And
        then we realise that the all-embracing sphere
        of the ‘human’ is not expressed in its entirety
        through any individual man, or through the
        members of any one race, but only through the
        whole of mankind. If anyone would understand
        what he is in his whole being, let him study
        the characteristics of the different peoples of
        the Earth. Let him assimilate the qualities
        which he himself cannot possess by nature, for
        only then will he become fully man. Full and
        complete manhood is a possibility for everyone.
        Everyone should pay heed to what lives in his
        own inner being. The revelation vouchsafed to
        other peoples is not his and he must find it in
        them. In his heart he feels and knows that this
        is necessary. If he discovers what is great and
        characteristic in the other peoples and allows
        this to penetrate deeply into his own being, he
        will realise that the purpose of his existence
        cannot be fulfilled without these other
        qualities, because they are also part of his
        own inner striving. The possibility of full
        manhood lies in every individual, but it must
        be brought to fulfilment by understanding the
        special characteristics of the different
        peoples spread over the Earth.”

        “Whether we apply this to smaller races and
        individual peoples, or confine ourselves to
        what is typical everywhere we see that man in
        his whole nature is not expressed in the
        members of any one people or race. Full manhood
        is as yet only an urge within us, but this urge
        must grow into a love for all humanity, for
        those qualities we do not ourselves possess by
        nature but can acquire if we sincerely seek for
        knowledge of the nature of other peoples of the
        Earth.”

        “True internationalism, by contrast, springs
        from a love which goes out to all peoples and
        races in order that the light received from
        them may be kindled in the deeds, concepts and
        creations of one's own people. Each individual
        race must so find its place in the great chorus
        of the peoples on the Earth that it contributes
        to the full understanding which can alone unite
        them all in real and mutual knowledge.”




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      • Robert Mason
        ... of Rudolf Steiner, so are not talking about him at all. Of those who know Steiner and have studied him, not one talks about him as racist. He was against
        Message 3 of 5 , Sep 2 10:47 AM
          To Starman, who wrote:

          >>First, most people in the world have never heard
          of Rudolf Steiner, so are not talking about him at
          all. Of those who know Steiner and have studied
          him, not one talks about him as racist. He was
          against racism and anti-Semitism forthrightly his
          whole life, as this quote you posted helps to
          demonstrate.

          >>So, what does this mean that there's a lot of
          "talk" about Steiner's racism? Answer: a tiny
          number of people who are virulently anti-Steiner
          are the ones doing this talking. In other words, a
          small number of cranks. . . .

          >>It's not really worth paying attention to except
          as a symptom of the 'politics of personal
          destruction' practiced these days ----don't debate
          a person's ideas, imply they're a 'Nazi', a
          'racist', etc. and that will dispose of them to
          the ignorant--- but when Steiner is slandered, we
          as anthroposophists are required to respond.
          There's lots more that could be quoted to refute
          this libel, but I wanted to make it clear there
          aren't lots of people talking about this
          accusation, it's the creation of a few with an
          axe to grind.<<

          Robert writes:

          I was alluding mainly to the “talk” in the Yahoo
          groups such as the WC, much of which has spilled
          over into the Anthro groups, thanks in part to
          Tom. But I was also alluding to the wider world,
          both cyberspace and meatspace. I gather, again
          from Tom in part, that there is plenty of such
          talk over in Europe, especially Germany. And, as
          you probably know, in much of Europe, especially
          Germany, accusations of “racism” can have serious
          legal consequences.

          And I think it would be a mistake to assume that
          all the people doing that “talking” don’t “know”
          or haven’t “studied” Steiner, in the ordinary
          sense. Some of the people over in the WC have
          obviously read a lot of Steiner, probably more
          than have most Anthros. I look in over there once
          in a while, and I keep seeing Steiner-saids that I
          hadn’t seen before. And now we have our self-
          proclaimed Anthro “Judas”, who seems to know his
          way around in Anthro circles in the US, and
          apparently also in Europe.

          I don’t know about their numbers, but I wouldn’t
          want to underestimate these people or the damage
          they might do.

          Robert M
        • Durward Starman
          *******Well, I have no idea what the WC is, who an anthroposophical Judas is, and I m willing to bet no one else in this list does. It illustrates what I
          Message 4 of 5 , Sep 2 6:38 PM
            *******Well, I have no idea what the 'WC' is, who an anthroposophical 'Judas' is, and I'm willing to bet no one else in this list does. It illustrates what I mean by not cross-posting: sounds like any healthy approach to the science of the spirit has been poisoned in some places on the internet by strange fixed opinions. You'd have to explain what the devil they (and you) are talking about for anyone sane to follow, since none of that has any relation to the study of Steiner, the practice of anthroposophy in the arts, schools, etc.
             
               Look, we're a tiny movement that most people could care less about. If we can be made to seem like a wierdo cult, people might listen --- but then they'd say, "Well what have these people done?" "Start schools, farms with their kooky ideas." "Yawn." I don't think anyone's going to succeed in enflaming public opinion against us easily. If people hadn't sought government money for Waldorf schools we wouldn't have anyone ranting about us maybe being a cult. But one of the 6 preparatory exercises is courage, not listening to fear. Responding to slander is important, but not letting evil people determine your attitude.

             Starman
            www.DrStarman.com




            >>It's not really worth paying attention to except
            as a symptom of the 'politics of personal
            destruction' practiced these days ----don't debate
            a person's ideas, imply they're a 'Nazi', a
            'racist', etc. and that will dispose of them to
            the ignorant--- but when Steiner is slandered, we
            as anthroposophists are required to respond.
            There's lots more that could be quoted to refute
            this libel, but I wanted to make it clear there
            aren't lots of people talking about this
            accusation, it's the creation of a few with an
            axe to grind.<<

            Robert writes:

            I was alluding mainly to the “talk” in the Yahoo
            groups such as the WC, much of which has spilled
            over into the Anthro groups, thanks in part to
            Tom. But I was also alluding to the wider world,
            both cyberspace and meatspace. I gather, again
            from Tom in part, that there is plenty of such
            talk over in Europe, especially Germany. And, as
            you probably know, in much of Europe, especially
            Germany, accusations of “racism” can have serious
            legal consequences.

            And I think it would be a mistake to assume that
            all the people doing that “talking” don’t “know”
            or haven’t “studied” Steiner, in the ordinary
            sense. Some of the people over in the WC have
            obviously read a lot of Steiner, probably more
            than have most Anthros. I look in over there once
            in a while, and I keep seeing Steiner-saids that I
            hadn’t seen before. And now we have our self-
            proclaimed Anthro “Judas”, who seems to know his
            way around in Anthro circles in the US, and
            apparently also in Europe.

            .



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          • Robert Mason
            ... .
            Message 5 of 5 , Sep 4 11:06 AM
              To Starman, who wrote:

              >>Well, I have no idea what the 'WC' is . . .
              .<<

              Robert writes:

              Gee, I thought everyone on the Anthro Net knew
              about the WC. That means the "Waldorf Critics"
              e-list (a.k.a. *The Hole*, *The Snake Nest*):
              <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/messages>

              It's an e-arm of PLANS ("People for Legal and
              Non-sectarian Schools"), an anti-Waldorf (and
              anti-Anthro) group based in the California Bay
              Area, but active in a much wider area. They
              make trouble for Waldorf schools in this
              country, and their like-minded affiliates
              (formal or informal) in Europe do pretty much
              the same over there.
              <http://www.waldorfcritics.org>

              Starman wrote:

              >>. . . . who an anthroposophical 'Judas' is,
              and I'm willing to bet no one else in this list
              does.<<

              Robert writes:

              But someone else here does indeed. I was
              thinking maybe he would rise to the bait and
              own up, but apparently he's not . . . so . . .
              .

              I was referring to Tom Mellett (a.k.a. *Father
              Tom, Judas Priest*), an fringe participant with
              the WC and like e-endeavors in Germany. (He is
              fluent in German.) I quote him from another
              Yahoo Anthro e-list (public archives):

              "In other words, before you have resurrection,
              ya gotta have death. Now what I see dying is
              not the MOVEMENT of anthroposophy, but the
              Society, all the external forms that
              anthroposphy has taken since Steiner died ---
              those that are beholden to the old forms. . . .
              That's what has to die and if it refuses to
              die, then the next best thing is to betray it.
              Hence my augmented title of Father Tom Judas
              Priest. If ya can't kill it, then betray it!"
              <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/anthroposophy_world/message/53>

              Starman wrote:

              >>Look, we're a tiny movement that most people
              could care less about. If we can be made to
              seem like a wierdo cult, people might listen --
              - but then they'd say, "Well what have these
              people done?" "Start schools, farms with their
              kooky ideas." "Yawn." I don't think anyone's
              going to succeed in enflaming public opinion
              against us
              easily.<<

              Robert writes:

              The WC and PLANS are making a pretty good run
              at it. And probably more so are their cohorts
              in some parts of Europe, where Anthroposophy is
              more known, and where there are more legal
              weapons to use against it. Tom could tell you
              a lot more about what's going on over there.

              Starman wrote:

              >>If people hadn't sought government money for
              Waldorf schools we wouldn't have anyone ranting
              about us maybe being a cult.<<

              Robert writes:

              I'm not very familiar with the ongoing
              practical side of Waldorf, but I'm aware that
              there is a division of opinion about seeking
              gov't funds. The purists say, "No, no, never;
              Steiner said . . . ." But the compromisers try
              to adapt to the reality that most people simply
              can't afford private education are their
              children are trapped in the public schools.
              And in some countries "private education" as we
              have it in the US is not legally possible.

              But whatever the Waldorf movement does or
              doesn't do, we can be assured that
              Anthroposophy will have active and dedicated
              enemies anyway.

              Robert Mason
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