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Consciousness Soul

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  • Mathew Morrell
    Starman wrote: Next, how do you experience the consciousness soul, before we want to discuss the effects of something or other on it? What is it to you? How
    Message 1 of 4 , Aug 10 5:20 PM
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      Starman wrote:

      "Next, how do you experience the consciousness soul, before we want to discuss the effects of something or other on it? What is it to you? How do you sense it or know it?"

      This question was addressed to Robert but I'll go ahead and take a few moments and try to answer it myself, hopefully correctly. 

      I would say that we experience our own consciousness soul when we withdraw within ourselves, away from the object we are studying or observing at the time. The act of separating ourselves from the object creates an objective state of awareness, detached from biases or prejudices and free from the subjective mind; but also detached from the etheric processes that involve the object in the subjective act of being perceived.

      Computer generated realities, on the other hand, tells the soul that the world exists "all in the mind", detached from our will forces and the ability of the will to dredge reality up from the chaos of the senses.  Computers create reality for us, based on organizing bits of data into coded impulses that produce the illusion of wholeness and substantiality.

      The screen "pixel-based" reality is purely Luciferic, whereas the underlying electromagnetic impulses running through the hardware, forming machine-intelligence, is the product of Ahriman.    

      Maybe this can get a conversation started.

    • Durward Starman
      ******See, that s why I like to ask basic questions to start, so a discussion can be grounded in our real experience, rather than abstractions. I have a
      Message 2 of 4 , Aug 11 12:51 PM
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        ******See, that's why I like to ask basic questions to start, so a discussion can be grounded in our real experience, rather than abstractions. I have a different "take" on the consciousness or spiritual soul. As I understand spirit-science, what you describe is actually the mind soul or intellectual soul, Matthew. What we experience when we look at ourselves is our physical body; as we live in this body, what is called the 'etheric body' can be experienced in numerous ways--- for instance, when you look at a red object for awhile and then at a white wall, the green counter-image is an etheric experience (never mind the materialistic explanations of this for the moment).
         
           Then, our feelings and emotions are to some degree our astral body: our impulses, likes and dislikes, inclinations of character, and so on. The lowest level of the "soul" is completely immersed in the astral experience, so that astral and soul are synonymous at the lowest level.
         
           As we know, anthroposophy teaches there are three parts to the soul--- not separated from each other, but three levels. The lowest one, the sentient soul, is the part of the soul completely oriented to the body, to our sense-experience. We live intensely in the astral body as teenagers, and then in the sentient soul from about age 21-28 (it's related to it, a sort of higher reflection of it--- which is why Dr. Steiner said high school teachers should be young, you're re-experiencing the development of the astral body from about age 14-21 on a higher level in your twenties).
         
           This is the part of us that lives in the pleasure of the senses. But when we begin to turn from experiencing "that"--- the outer world--- THROUGH the soul, to experiencing OURSELVES, THAT is the "gemütseele" or self-experiencing soul. (By the way, "gemütseele" shouldn't really be translated as Mind Soul or Intellectual Soul: the "gemüt" in German means feeling as well as mind: it's your entire character, disposition--- the root of the English word "mood." "Heart-and-mind" soul is how some have translated it; it means your whole feeling of yourself as a personality--- inner knowing of oneself, as opposed to looking outward through the senses.)
         
           So the soul turning its attention towards the BODY is the Sentient Soul; the soul turning its attention away from things revealed through the senses and instead turning towards ITSELF is the Mind Soul. We especially develop it from about age 28-35. Then, from about 35 to 42 we especially develop the Consciouness or Spiritual Soul, where the soul now begins to turn TOWARDS THE SPIRIT. "Life begins at 40!!"
         
           These parts are also developed by mankind in order; the Intellectual Soul Age was the age of Greece and Rome. OUR age is the one that is beginning the development of the Consiousness Soul. This is the past 500 years or so.
         
           How are we different than the Greeks? What makes one different who develops the Consciousness Soul and how do we see it in operation? What does it mean to have the soul turn its attention towards the "spirit" instead of to the body or just to itself?
         
           As I see it, a person who has deveoped only the sentient soul and intellectual or mind soul would be very good with the material world and very clever and ego-aware. But see, the "spirit" means what is behind BOTH the material world AND the Self. When you start becoming aware of the spirit, you no longer experience yourself just as a separate ego in a world of objects. Instead, the separateness vanishes; you know your kinship with all other Egos, indeed with all Life; and things in your world can no longer be mere objects of observation but instead are related to you, your brothers and sisters, your family---yea more, PART OF YOU. The great Greek philosophers pontificated about Virtue while watching slaves do all the work. The abolition of slavery, the arising of a movement for abolishing cruelty to animals, the environmental movement, all of these I think are signs of the consciousness soul becoming active; likewise what one could call "everyday spirituality", seeing the spirit in everything in life, even the most trivial things, like the Quakers who have no priesthood and no religion except contemplating. The political movements and transformations of the past 500 years have been an astounding outcome of its emergence. How we can no longer ignore the suffering of others, how people all over the world feel part of the world as a whole.
         
           Another way you could say it is that with only the intellectual soul you can be a scientist, but when you start developing the consciousness soul you have to start becoming a spiritual scientist. These things where New Age people have tried to extend quantum physics to a quasi-Hindu philosophy are a groping in that direction. Likewise the attempts to set up things like the United Nations, as ineffectual or counter-productive as they may have been so far.
         
          So to me, it has much more to do with recognizing the spirit in other people and in Nature than with just self-awareness. Through the sentient soul we experience the body and outer Nature, through the intellectual soul we experience ourselves, but through the consciousness soul we begin to experience what underlies both Self and World... the Spirit that is the basis of Nature, and the Spirit that is the basis of ourselves.
         
          Comments?

        -starman
        www.DrStarman.com
         
        P.S. How do you get those nice graphics inserted in the e-mails? Do they still show up in the stored messages on Yahoo? I know they no longer save any attachments.




        To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
        From: tma4cbt@...
        Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 00:20:17 +0000
        Subject: [steiner] Consciousness Soul


         

        Starman wrote:

        "Next, how do you experience the consciousness soul, before we want to discuss the effects of something or other on it? What is it to you? How do you sense it or know it?"

        This question was addressed to Robert but I'll go ahead and take a few moments and try to answer it myself, hopefully correctly. 

        I would say that we experience our own consciousness soul when we withdraw within ourselves, away from the object we are studying or observing at the time. The act of separating ourselves from the object creates an objective state of awareness, detached from biases or prejudices and free from the subjective mind; but also detached from the etheric processes that involve the object in the subjective act of being perceived.

        Computer generated realities, on the other hand, tells the soul that the world exists "all in the mind", detached from our will forces and the ability of the will to dredge reality up from the chaos of the senses.  Computers create reality for us, based on organizing bits of data into coded impulses that produce the illusion of wholeness and substantiality.

        The screen "pixel-based" reality is purely Luciferic, whereas the underlying electromagnetic impulses running through the hardware, forming machine-intelligenc e, is the product of Ahriman.    

        Maybe this can get a conversation started.




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      • Mathew Morrell
        Starman wrote: …the spirit means what is behind BOTH the material world AND the Self. When you start becoming aware of the spirit, you no longer
        Message 3 of 4 , Aug 11 5:17 PM
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          Starman wrote:

          "…the "spirit" means what is behind BOTH the material world AND the Self. When you start becoming aware of the spirit, you no longer experience yourself just as a separate ego in a world of objects. Instead, the separateness vanishes; you know your kinship with all other Egos, indeed with all Life; and things in your world can no longer be mere objects of observation but instead are related to you, your brothers and sisters, your family---yea more, PART OF YOU."

          "Through the sentient soul we experience the body and outer Nature, through the intellectual soul we experience ourselves, but through the consciousness soul we begin to experience what underlies both Self and World... the Spirit that is the basis of Nature, and the Spirit that is the basis of ourselves."

          Mathew replies:

          Thanks for your insight into this matter, Starman.  The consciousness soul is more spiritual than I previously thought, in the sense that it involves the interaction of Self and the World on a whole other plane!  The Self never loses consciousness of itself, if I understand correctly; it remains perpetually aware of the relationship that it has to the omniscient spirit of external reality (Nature).    

          Does the consciousness soul comprehend or acknowledge the ether plane?

          It seems to me as if the New Age is, unfortunately, moving away from an etheric understanding of nature.

           

           

          They're looking into sub-nature instead, i.e. subatomic life, computers, artificial intelligence, etc.  The etheric plane has been reduced to an infinity of subatomic particles interconnected with the universal dimension and its parallel realities.  Might the New Age be the "religification" of material science?

        • Durward Starman
          *******That s a good way to put it, unfortunately. The New Age has largely been undermined by the desire to appear scientific which has resulted in a crude
          Message 4 of 4 , Aug 14 10:27 AM
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            *******That's a good way to put it, unfortunately. The "New Age" has largely been undermined by the desire to appear "scientific" which has resulted in a crude materialistic copy of real insight. There is no similarity between the etheric forces and electricity, for instance. In fact they are opposites: electricity cancels out life-force, as anyone can find out by just putting his finger in a socket. It's inimical to the life-forces. Whatever runs by electricity cannot be the etheric. So, all these computer-generated models of this or that are just that, models, constructs. If they're created by materialistic minds, they will be materialistic models. Garbage in, garbage out. Computers help you make erroneous pictures faster, that's all.
             
               This machine you are reading this on has no spirit and so cannot understand spirit. Your being has and therefore can. All that can be written or diagrammed can only try to point to the spirit to help a human being realize it. But since it has no material form, no words or pictures based on 'atoms' or 'things' can help. People think they're being 'New Age' but so often it is just dressed-up materialism: they picture the 'chakras' as like material spinning wheels, the kundalini as like a flow of electricity (which itself is thought of as like a 'flow' of water), etc. None of that is true, it is all 'spiritual materialism'. Really contacting and becoming aware of the spirit is a completely different thing. And that begins with the consciousness soul.
             
               As for your question about the etheric, yes, the consciousness soul  includes experiencing both our physical and etheric bodies in the spirit, on a higher plane. We started developing the consciousness soul the past 500 years or so, remember. Well, after the "black iron prison" of Roman-era material ideas entrapping us (as my friend Phil used to call it), the first minds challenging that rigid conception of space and postulating non-Euclidean geometry appeared in that time (Descartes, Desargues, Pascal). Euclidean geometry from the time of Democritus was used to conceive of the world as being made of little things, point-shaped 'atoms'. We still involuntarily think of entities like the hypothetical 'electrons' and 'photons' this way. A point in geometry is a sphere concentrated inward to a point, centripetal movement inwards. Now imagine the opposite, an entity not related to an infinitely small point-center but to the infinitely large periphery distant. Instead of falling in towards a center it 'falls outward' towards the sphere's surface. That's the units of etheric forces, not points like atoms and not flows of points along a line like our imaginary electrons, but rather forces moving in the opposite direction to gravity. The forces that move a redwood tree's saps up to its top branches, when there's no pressure detectible in the trunk as would be if it was being pumped somehow against gravity. Levity, the opposite of gravity. Periphery-'centered' instead of point-centered. Takes some flexibility of thinking to think it but it can be done.

            Starman

            www.DrStarman.com




            To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
            From: tma4cbt@...
            Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 00:17:30 +0000
            Subject: [steiner] Re: Consciousness Soul


            Starman wrote:

            "…the "spirit" means what is behind BOTH the material world AND the Self. When you start becoming aware of the spirit, you no longer experience yourself just as a separate ego in a world of objects. Instead, the separateness vanishes; you know your kinship with all other Egos, indeed with all Life; and things in your world can no longer be mere objects of observation but instead are related to you, your brothers and sisters, your family---yea more, PART OF YOU."

            "Through the sentient soul we experience the body and outer Nature, through the intellectual soul we experience ourselves, but through the consciousness soul we begin to experience what underlies both Self and World... the Spirit that is the basis of Nature, and the Spirit that is the basis of ourselves."

            Mathew replies:

            Thanks for your insight into this matter, Starman.  The consciousness soul is more spiritual than I previously thought, in the sense that it involves the interaction of Self and the World on a whole other plane!  The Self never loses consciousness of itself, if I understand correctly; it remains perpetually aware of the relationship that it has to the omniscient spirit of external reality (Nature).    

            Does the consciousness soul comprehend or acknowledge the ether plane?

            It seems to me as if the New Age is, unfortunately, moving away from an etheric understanding of nature.

             

             

            They're looking into sub-nature instead, i.e. subatomic life, computers, artificial intelligence, etc.  The etheric plane has been reduced to an infinity of subatomic particles interconnected with the universal dimension and its parallel realities.  Might the New Age be the "religification" of material science?




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