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RE: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce

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  • Durward Starman
    ******* Why do you connect this to the planet Mars? I connect the trance state to Saturn, as it s a reversion to the state of consciousness of Ancient Saturn.
    Message 1 of 18 , Jul 11, 2008
      ******* Why do you connect this to the planet Mars? I connect the trance state to Saturn, as it's a reversion to the state of consciousness of Ancient Saturn.

      -starman

      www.DrStarman.com




      To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
      From: carynlouise24@...
      Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 08:19:09 +0000
      Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce


      Interesting reactions – Well it is interesting Mars is the
      reincarnation of the Old Moon. Explains the `trance' state.

      One thing in life which I cannot stand is when people say `blessings'
      or `God bless you' – like they have this authority to tell God who to
      bless who not to bless!

      Well back to Billy … then

      --- In steiner@yahoogroups .com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@. ..> wrote:
      >
      >
      > *******Well, I'm sorry but I have to tell you that some of your
      information is woefully inaccurate! You could verify this by doing a
      search online or reading a few books about the Cayce Readings. I'd
      recommend reading a biography of the man first, such as "There Is A
      River" by Tom Sugrue, then look through whatever books of excerpts
      from his psychic readings interest you, like Edgar Cayce on Atlantis,
      Edgar Cayce on Jesus and His Church, etc. You'll find the information
      quite similar to Theosophy and anthroposophy, frequently identical.
      >
      > The objection of Rittlemeyer' s was about people claiming to be
      an authority because of who they supposedly were in another life.
      This has nothing to do with telling what other peoples' past lives
      were--- which of course Dr. Steiner also did, so Rittlemeyer' s
      criticiism about "claiming authority" on the basis of previous
      incarnations couldn't possibly include. He meant saying 'Well, I was
      so-and-so in a past life and so you should listen to me' (as one poor
      soul currently does who claims to have been Cayce himself, while
      producing no evidence of any abilities in this life). Telling people
      they should study music because they have an unrealized musical gift
      due to having been a musician in ancient Greece, as the Cayce
      Readings might do--- well, that's a completely different thing than
      what Rittlemeyer was talking about, clearly. Dr. Steiner also would
      identify learning disabilities in children as coming from past lives
      and use this knowledge in treatment.
      >
      > Also, the Readings did not identify Cayce as having been
      Pythagoras. He did say that in a past life he was an Egyptian
      initiate unknown to history named Ra Ta, whose memory later became
      mixed in with the mythological Ra. But he didn't claim people should
      listen to him because he was that priest in the time of the building
      of the pyramids. In fact, Cayce didn't ask people to listen to him at
      all, as he was not a teacher like Steiner. He was a freakish case of
      an ordinary-seeming man who, because of his past lives, could go into
      a trance state and connect with the same sources as Blavatsky and
      Steiner. In his trances, he mainly was asked medical questions about
      people who were sick. Other stuff was secondary to him and he wasn't
      sure how much to trust it himself.
      >
      > -starmanwww. DrStarman. com
      >
      >
      >
      > To: steiner@...: carynlouise24@ ...: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:51:19
      +0000Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > The Edgar Cayce's I have read are:The Life Story of JesusThe Origin
      and Destiny of ManRevelationMany Happy Returns My thoughts are:In
      Friedrich Rittelmeyer' s `RUDOLF STEINER ENTERS MY LIFE' Friedrich
      writes:`His (Rudolf Steiner) attitude in the Krishnamurti affair
      shows that he regarded it as the greatest occult sin to claim
      authority for anyone on the ground of previous incarnations. In the
      age of the "Consciousness Soul" everyone must appeal with his
      teaching simply and solely to men's own objective sense of truth, and
      convince them purely on the basis of reason'.Edgar Cayce in an
      unconscious state claimed authority for person's previous
      incarnations and this should be a reason for concern. For instance;
      say someone like Edgar Cayce had to say to me `you were Mickey Mouse
      in your previous incarnation' – if I was naïve enough to believe this
      (because I was seeking the fundamental question of life `who am I') I
      would spend the rest of my life prancing around thinking to myself `I
      am Mickey Mouse' and further begin to act, take on the role of,
      Mickey Mouse - only to find when I pass through the portals of death
      I was actually Donald Duck in a previous incarnation and thus wasted
      a whole life in misconception. The age old wisdom comes to mind `Know
      Thyself' through yourself being yourself.Another factor; Edgar Cayce
      has claimed himself to be the great ancient leader Ra and the great
      mathematician Pythagoras in previous lifetimes.As far as I know not
      even Rudolf Steiner would claim to ascertain who he was in previous
      lifetimes in such an open manner; and further the true understanding
      of reincarnation of Initiates is not truly understood by the
      uninitiated. At this point I would like to say; Stephen Hale is
      greatly respected and (in my view) his investigations into the Karmic
      relationships between people is well thought through, done in a very
      concise manner and most importantly in a conscious manner. These
      investigations, on people who have already passed through the
      portals, namely Rudolf Steiner himself, directly proves the above
      writing by Friedrich Rittelmeyer on Rudolf Steiner's view on previous
      incarnations are done with an objective sense of truth based on
      knowledge and reason and is a gift invaluable to anthroposophy. I have
      spent years pondering Edgar Cayce and it is not without undue
      considerations I put this forward.--- In steiner@yahoogroups .com,
      Durward Starman <DrStarman@> wrote:>> > > > To: steiner@:
      Cheeseandsalsa@ : Mon, 7 Jul 2008 13:32:21 -0400Subject: Re: [steiner]
      Edgar Cayce> > > > Barbara Handclow who isn't an anthro said that
      Cayce is a member and his father of the masons. She wrote that they
      were of the dark occult brotherhood. ..I personally do not resonate
      with what he brought to us. > I do agree - a balance is always good
      in communications. Any thoughts ... I wonder what Rudolf Steiner would
      have to say on Edgar Cayce?> > > 1> > .> *******> > > > > > Well, in
      this particular case I can say flatly that the lady is mistaken.
      Neither Cayce nor his father were Masons, I know that from personal
      study and contact with his family and many people who actually knew
      him here in Virginia Beach. He was not a member of anything, and in
      fact didn't know about Theosophy or anything esoteric until he began
      answering questions about such matters in his "readings." He almost
      never remembered anything he said in trance so they had to have a
      stenographer take it all down, and he read what he'd said afterwards
      along with everybody else. He was a simple Christian while awake and
      never joined anything except the local Presbyterian Church here. His
      father was a difficult man whom Edgar didn't get along with very
      well, but he also was not a member of any brotherhood or anything and
      had nothing to do with Edgar Cayce's work most of his life. > > As to
      what you don't resonate with in the Cayce Readings, well there's a
      lot that may be criticized in many ways. I don't know what you've
      read from them. > > Starman>
      ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _> It's a
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      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
      > Making the world a better place one message at a time.
      > http://www.imtalkat hon.com/? source=EML_ WLH_Talkathon_ BetterPlace
      >




      The i’m Talkaton. Can 30-days of conversation change the world? Find out now.
    • carynlouise24
      I trace it to the Old Moon stage of clairvoyance for specific corresponding reasons. Arhimanic and his sidekick the untamed Luciferic. We understand during
      Message 2 of 18 , Jul 14, 2008
        I trace it to the Old Moon stage of clairvoyance for specific
        corresponding reasons. Arhimanic and his sidekick the untamed
        Luciferic. We understand during the Old Moon period the astral body
        was in development and the mineral was not yet included in the human
        body, this was a predominately Luciferic stage.

        In Rudolf Steiner's `Polarities in the Evolution of Mankind' eleven
        lectures given to members of the Anthroposophical Society in
        Stuttgart 5 March to 22 November 1920 pg 108 – we read

        `The Jesuit literature on the material world is much more brilliantly
        written than the works of many others writers on the subject today.
        Father Erich Wasmann's work on ants, for example, is really good, you
        will gain more from reading it than from the pedantic, uninspired
        writings of other scientists. Many more examples could be given.

        The (work of the) Jesuits would be excellent if they confined
        themselves to the material world; it is a deliberate aim (of the
        Jesuits) to use their description of the material world to encourage
        people to associate knowledge with the materialistic aspect of the
        physical world only.

        The intention is to pretend to human minds that the methods used to
        gain knowledge cannot be used to investigate the supersensible
        world. In ancient times Lucifer-dominated individuals suggested that
        human beings would gain mastery of the world if they made use of
        ancient divine knowledge, yet evolution had already gone beyond this
        point.

        Now we have late followers of those people from post-primeval times
        pretending to the world that it is not possible to extend knowledge
        to the supersensible sphere and that knowledge cannot go beyond the
        sense-perceptible world. In those early times the intention had been
        to drug people with supersensible knowledge.

        Now human beings of the same ilk want to use all possible means to
        push humanity into the physical world; they want human beings stuck
        in that world and grasp the supersensible world only with the
        nebulous impulse of faith.

        In post-primeval times the aim had been to inundate humankind with an
        excess of supersensible knowledge. Today those late followers want
        human beings to have less than the right amount of knowledge in this
        sphere. Past intent was to provide supersensible knowledge that was
        no longer appropriate. Present intent is to let people have only
        sense-bound knowledge, making the supersensible world an area where
        every individual may hold whatever views he or she likes.

        What would be the outcome if the group of people to whom we are
        referring were to achieve some kind of victory? These are the people
        who deliberately make a sharp distinction between knowledge and
        belief. There are of course large numbers of easily led people who
        come across the diatribe on the `clear distinction between faith and
        knowledge' and repeat it; they merely repeat it.

        What is all this about? The aim is to do the opposite of what those
        individual in post-primeval times did in their way. In the old days
        the intention was to prevent humanity from descending completely and
        taking up its mission on earth. Today the intention is to keep
        people tied to that mission on earth to prevent their further
        development, for which the earth would provide the basis. The very
        people who are now supporting materialism call
        themselves `spiritualists', or priests of some faith or other,
        representatives of the supersensible world.

        In those ancient times the people offering a life in the spirit that
        was no longer justifiable called themselves materialists. They did
        so from the point of view which I have characterized. Today a large
        number of people who really wish to keep humanity bound to the
        material world call themselves representatives of the spiritual
        world.'

        Page 50

        Think of all the efforts we go to in spiritual science working
        towards anthroposophy to form sufficiently clear ideas; for
        instances, as to how far the things we become aware of in human
        minds, in the form of dreams, may or may not be reflecting the
        truth. As human beings we cannot immediately distinguish truth from
        falsehood when something appears in the course of a dream. The same
        state of mind arises for a congregation when they are told lies by
        people who know those lies will be believed. The soul is brought to
        a state, a mood, by those lies where it becomes the willing tool of
        those desiring power. It is easiest to get people into your power by
        planting illusions in their unsuspecting minds'.




        --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > ******* Why do you connect this to the planet Mars? I connect the
        trance state to Saturn, as it's a reversion to the state of
        consciousness of Ancient Saturn.
        > -starman
        > www.DrStarman.com
        >
        >
        >
        > To: steiner@...: carynlouise24@...: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 08:19:09
        +0000Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Interesting reactions – Well it is interesting Mars is the
        reincarnation of the Old Moon. Explains the `trance' state.One thing
        in life which I cannot stand is when people say `blessings' or `God
        bless you' – like they have this authority to tell God who to bless
        who not to bless!Well back to Billy … then --- In
        steiner@yahoogroups.com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@> wrote:>> >
        *******Well, I'm sorry but I have to tell you that some of your
        information is woefully inaccurate! You could verify this by doing a
        search online or reading a few books about the Cayce Readings. I'd
        recommend reading a biography of the man first, such as "There Is A
        River" by Tom Sugrue, then look through whatever books of excerpts
        from his psychic readings interest you, like Edgar Cayce on Atlantis,
        Edgar Cayce on Jesus and His Church, etc. You'll find the information
        quite similar to Theosophy and anthroposophy, frequently identical.>
        > The objection of Rittlemeyer's was about people claiming to be an
        authority because of who they supposedly were in another life. This
        has nothing to do with telling what other peoples' past lives were---
        which of course Dr. Steiner also did, so Rittlemeyer's criticiism
        about "claiming authority" on the basis of previous incarnations
        couldn't possibly include. He meant saying 'Well, I was so-and-so in
        a past life and so you should listen to me' (as one poor soul
        currently does who claims to have been Cayce himself, while producing
        no evidence of any abilities in this life). Telling people they
        should study music because they have an unrealized musical gift due
        to having been a musician in ancient Greece, as the Cayce Readings
        might do--- well, that's a completely different thing than what
        Rittlemeyer was talking about, clearly. Dr. Steiner also would
        identify learning disabilities in children as coming from past lives
        and use this knowledge in treatment.> > Also, the Readings did not
        identify Cayce as having been Pythagoras. He did say that in a past
        life he was an Egyptian initiate unknown to history named Ra Ta,
        whose memory later became mixed in with the mythological Ra. But he
        didn't claim people should listen to him because he was that priest
        in the time of the building of the pyramids. In fact, Cayce didn't
        ask people to listen to him at all, as he was not a teacher like
        Steiner. He was a freakish case of an ordinary-seeming man who,
        because of his past lives, could go into a trance state and connect
        with the same sources as Blavatsky and Steiner. In his trances, he
        mainly was asked medical questions about people who were sick. Other
        stuff was secondary to him and he wasn't sure how much to trust it
        himself.> > -starmanwww.DrStarman.com> > > > To: steiner@:
        carynlouise24@: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:51:19 +0000Subject: [steiner] Re:
        Edgar Cayce> > > > > The Edgar Cayce's I have read are:The Life Story
        of JesusThe Origin and Destiny of ManRevelationMany Happy Returns My
        thoughts are:In Friedrich Rittelmeyer's `RUDOLF STEINER ENTERS MY
        LIFE' Friedrich writes:`His (Rudolf Steiner) attitude in the
        Krishnamurti affair shows that he regarded it as the greatest occult
        sin to claim authority for anyone on the ground of previous
        incarnations. In the age of the "Consciousness Soul" everyone must
        appeal with his teaching simply and solely to men's own objective
        sense of truth, and convince them purely on the basis of
        reason'.Edgar Cayce in an unconscious state claimed authority for
        person's previous incarnations and this should be a reason for
        concern. For instance; say someone like Edgar Cayce had to say to me
        `you were Mickey Mouse in your previous incarnation' – if I was naïve
        enough to believe this (because I was seeking the fundamental
        question of life `who am I') I would spend the rest of my life
        prancing around thinking to myself `I am Mickey Mouse' and further
        begin to act, take on the role of, Mickey Mouse - only to find when I
        pass through the portals of death I was actually Donald Duck in a
        previous incarnation and thus wasted a whole life in
        misconception.The age old wisdom comes to mind `Know Thyself' through
        yourself being yourself.Another factor; Edgar Cayce has claimed
        himself to be the great ancient leader Ra and the great mathematician
        Pythagoras in previous lifetimes.As far as I know not even Rudolf
        Steiner would claim to ascertain who he was in previous lifetimes in
        such an open manner; and further the true understanding of
        reincarnation of Initiates is not truly understood by the
        uninitiated.At this point I would like to say; Stephen Hale is
        greatly respected and (in my view) his investigations into the Karmic
        relationships between people is well thought through, done in a very
        concise manner and most importantly in a conscious manner. These
        investigations, on people who have already passed through the
        portals, namely Rudolf Steiner himself, directly proves the above
        writing by Friedrich Rittelmeyer on Rudolf Steiner's view on previous
        incarnations are done with an objective sense of truth based on
        knowledge and reason and is a gift invaluable to anthroposophy.I have
        spent years pondering Edgar Cayce and it is not without undue
        considerations I put this forward.--- In steiner@yahoogroups.com,
        Durward Starman <DrStarman@> wrote:>> > > > To: steiner@:
        Cheeseandsalsa@: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 13:32:21 -0400Subject: Re: [steiner]
        Edgar Cayce> > > > Barbara Handclow who isn't an anthro said that
        Cayce is a member and his father of the masons. She wrote that they
        were of the dark occult brotherhood...I personally do not resonate
        with what he brought to us. > I do agree - a balance is always good
        in communications.Any thoughts ... I wonder what Rudolf Steiner would
        have to say on Edgar Cayce?> > > 1> > .> *******> > > > > > Well, in
        this particular case I can say flatly that the lady is mistaken.
        Neither Cayce nor his father were Masons, I know that from personal
        study and contact with his family and many people who actually knew
        him here in Virginia Beach. He was not a member of anything, and in
        fact didn't know about Theosophy or anything esoteric until he began
        answering questions about such matters in his "readings." He almost
        never remembered anything he said in trance so they had to have a
        stenographer take it all down, and he read what he'd said afterwards
        along with everybody else. He was a simple Christian while awake and
        never joined anything except the local Presbyterian Church here. His
        father was a difficult man whom Edgar didn't get along with very
        well, but he also was not a member of any brotherhood or anything and
        had nothing to do with Edgar Cayce's work most of his life. > > As to
        what you don't resonate with in the Cayce Readings, well there's a
        lot that may be criticized in many ways. I don't know what you've
        read from them. > > Starman>
        __________________________________________________________> It's a
        talkathon – but it's not just talk.> http://www.imtalkathon.com/?
        source=EML_WLH_Talkathon_JustTalk> > > > > > >
        __________________________________________________________> Making
        the world a better place one message at a time.>
        http://www.imtalkathon.com/?source=EML_WLH_Talkathon_BetterPlace>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > _________________________________________________________________
        > The i'm Talkaton. Can 30-days of conversation change the world?
        > http://www.imtalkathon.com/?source=EML_WLH_Talkathon_ChangeWorld
        >
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