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RE: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce

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  • Durward Starman
    *******Who is he? I ve never heard of him. -starmanwww.DrStarman.com To: steiner@yahoogroups.comFrom: tma4cbt@juno.comDate: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 20:37:24
    Message 1 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
      *******Who is he? I've never heard of him.
       
      -starman

      www.DrStarman.com




      To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
      From: tma4cbt@...
      Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 20:37:24 +0000
      Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce


      Caryne Louise said:

      > At this point I would like to say; Stephen Hale is greatly respected
      > and (in my view) his investigations into the Karmic relationships
      > between people is well thought through...

      Steven Hale is a 3rd rate charlatan and moral retrograde. I spit on
      his name and anyone who mentions it in this forum.




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    • John Massengale
      ... I m not interested in spitting or being told what to say here. I will try signing myself off. If that doesn t work, please sign me off. thanks
      Message 2 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008

        On Jul 10, 2008, at 4:37 PM, Mathew Morrell wrote:

        I spit on 
        his name and anyone who mentions it in this forum. 

        I'm not interested in spitting or being told what to say here.

        I will try signing myself off. If that doesn't work, please sign me off.

        thanks
      • Mathew Morrell
        ... Steven Hale is that psycho pomp you removed from this forum a couple years ago, who joined this forum, it seems, for no other purpose than to clog it up,
        Message 3 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008


          --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > *******Who is he? I've never heard of him.
          >

          Steven Hale is that psycho pomp you removed from this forum a couple years ago, who joined this forum, it seems, for no other purpose than to clog it up, undermine, and manipulate people like me with his overbearing, ego-centric personality.

          According to my sources, Steve Hale recently accused Starman of being in the mold of the Aryan Nation.  That's just one things he's accused Starman and myself of being.  There are many more lies and falsehoods that pour from this person's mouth.  Mr Hale has made a profession of creating devils and unleashing them through anthroposophical discussion forums.

          Mathew  

        • Durward Starman
          *******Thank you, Matthew. I d forgotten all about this rather unpleasant fellow. Just looked up his rantings when he was briefly a member of this list. No
          Message 4 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
            *******Thank you, Matthew. I'd forgotten all about this rather unpleasant fellow. Just looked up his rantings when he was briefly a member of this list. No wonder you reacted so.
             
                I see no evidence of any singular insight into peoples' past lives, or anything esoteric or spiritual for that matter, in this person. He appears to be just another egotist who is out to twist anthroposophy into something that supports his own opinions, rather similar to the fellow I mentioned who says he's the reincarnation of Edgar Cayce. They're a dime a dozen online here.
             
               I would not place much faith in anything he had to say about Edgar Cayce, or Rudolf Steiner, for that matter. He might have something worthwhile to say, but I would say one would have to critically examine every statement such a person makes for falsehoods.
             
            -starman

            www.DrStarman.com




            To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
            From: tma4cbt@...
            Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 21:35:05 +0000
            Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce



            --- In steiner@yahoogroups .com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@.. .> wrote:
            >
            >
            > *******Who is he? I've never heard of him.
            >

            Steven Hale is that psycho pomp you removed from this forum a couple years ago, who joined this forum, it seems, for no other purpose than to clog it up, undermine, and manipulate people like me with his overbearing, ego-centric personality.

            According to my sources, Steve Hale recently accused Starman of being in the mold of the Aryan Nation.  That's just one things he's accused Starman and myself of being.  There are many more lies and falsehoods that pour from this person's mouth.  Mr Hale has made a profession of creating devils and unleashing them through anthroposophical discussion forums.

            Mathew  




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          • happypick2000
            ... I vaguely recall someone of that name although not the particulars. Unfortunately, this world seems to be full of unsavory types, and the best I can say in
            Message 5 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
              --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "Mathew Morrell" <tma4cbt@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > *******Who is he? I've never heard of him.
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              > Steven Hale is that psycho pomp you removed from this forum a couple
              > years ago, who joined this forum, it seems, for no other purpose than to
              > clog it up, undermine, and manipulate people like me with his
              > overbearing, ego-centric personality.
              >
              > According to my sources, Steve Hale recently accused Starman of being in
              > the mold of the Aryan Nation. That's just one things he's
              > accused Starman and myself of being. There are many more lies and
              > falsehoods that pour from this person's mouth. Mr Hale has made a
              > profession of creating devils and unleashing them through
              > anthroposophical discussion forums.
              >
              > Mathew
              >
              I vaguely recall someone of that name although not the particulars.
              Unfortunately, this world seems to be full of unsavory types, and the
              best I can say in such cases is to the effect that they will be held
              responsible for any and all actions of theirs, and in a well deserved
              way. I shudder to ponder such fates and can only try to overlook
              harmful events and people while learning from them in the way Steiner
              mentions coming across the dead dog with such beautiful teeth, but I
              fail far too often.

              Blessings,

              Sheila
            • Durward Starman
              *******Sorry for Matthew s temper. But in any gathering of people an angry outburst will happen now and then. It s not a reason for leaving a group. I wonder,
              Message 6 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
                *******Sorry for Matthew's temper. But in any gathering of people an angry outburst will happen now and then. It's not a reason for leaving a group.
                 
                I wonder, do you belong to an anthroposophical study group? Would you do the same there?

                -starman

                www.DrStarman.com




                To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
                From: john@...
                Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 17:34:15 -0400
                Subject: Re: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce



                On Jul 10, 2008, at 4:37 PM, Mathew Morrell wrote:

                I spit on 
                his name and anyone who mentions it in this forum. 

                I'm not interested in spitting or being told what to say here.

                I will try signing myself off. If that doesn't work, please sign me off.

                thanks




                Making the world a better place one message at a time. Check out the i'm Talkathon.
              • carynlouise24
                Interesting reactions – Well it is interesting Mars is the reincarnation of the Old Moon. Explains the `trance state. One thing in life which I cannot
                Message 7 of 18 , Jul 11, 2008
                  Interesting reactions – Well it is interesting Mars is the
                  reincarnation of the Old Moon. Explains the `trance' state.

                  One thing in life which I cannot stand is when people say `blessings'
                  or `God bless you' – like they have this authority to tell God who to
                  bless who not to bless!

                  Well back to Billy … then



                  --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > *******Well, I'm sorry but I have to tell you that some of your
                  information is woefully inaccurate! You could verify this by doing a
                  search online or reading a few books about the Cayce Readings. I'd
                  recommend reading a biography of the man first, such as "There Is A
                  River" by Tom Sugrue, then look through whatever books of excerpts
                  from his psychic readings interest you, like Edgar Cayce on Atlantis,
                  Edgar Cayce on Jesus and His Church, etc. You'll find the information
                  quite similar to Theosophy and anthroposophy, frequently identical.
                  >
                  > The objection of Rittlemeyer's was about people claiming to be
                  an authority because of who they supposedly were in another life.
                  This has nothing to do with telling what other peoples' past lives
                  were--- which of course Dr. Steiner also did, so Rittlemeyer's
                  criticiism about "claiming authority" on the basis of previous
                  incarnations couldn't possibly include. He meant saying 'Well, I was
                  so-and-so in a past life and so you should listen to me' (as one poor
                  soul currently does who claims to have been Cayce himself, while
                  producing no evidence of any abilities in this life). Telling people
                  they should study music because they have an unrealized musical gift
                  due to having been a musician in ancient Greece, as the Cayce
                  Readings might do--- well, that's a completely different thing than
                  what Rittlemeyer was talking about, clearly. Dr. Steiner also would
                  identify learning disabilities in children as coming from past lives
                  and use this knowledge in treatment.
                  >
                  > Also, the Readings did not identify Cayce as having been
                  Pythagoras. He did say that in a past life he was an Egyptian
                  initiate unknown to history named Ra Ta, whose memory later became
                  mixed in with the mythological Ra. But he didn't claim people should
                  listen to him because he was that priest in the time of the building
                  of the pyramids. In fact, Cayce didn't ask people to listen to him at
                  all, as he was not a teacher like Steiner. He was a freakish case of
                  an ordinary-seeming man who, because of his past lives, could go into
                  a trance state and connect with the same sources as Blavatsky and
                  Steiner. In his trances, he mainly was asked medical questions about
                  people who were sick. Other stuff was secondary to him and he wasn't
                  sure how much to trust it himself.
                  >
                  > -starmanwww.DrStarman.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > To: steiner@...: carynlouise24@...: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:51:19
                  +0000Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > The Edgar Cayce's I have read are:The Life Story of JesusThe Origin
                  and Destiny of ManRevelationMany Happy Returns My thoughts are:In
                  Friedrich Rittelmeyer's `RUDOLF STEINER ENTERS MY LIFE' Friedrich
                  writes:`His (Rudolf Steiner) attitude in the Krishnamurti affair
                  shows that he regarded it as the greatest occult sin to claim
                  authority for anyone on the ground of previous incarnations. In the
                  age of the "Consciousness Soul" everyone must appeal with his
                  teaching simply and solely to men's own objective sense of truth, and
                  convince them purely on the basis of reason'.Edgar Cayce in an
                  unconscious state claimed authority for person's previous
                  incarnations and this should be a reason for concern. For instance;
                  say someone like Edgar Cayce had to say to me `you were Mickey Mouse
                  in your previous incarnation' – if I was naïve enough to believe this
                  (because I was seeking the fundamental question of life `who am I') I
                  would spend the rest of my life prancing around thinking to myself `I
                  am Mickey Mouse' and further begin to act, take on the role of,
                  Mickey Mouse - only to find when I pass through the portals of death
                  I was actually Donald Duck in a previous incarnation and thus wasted
                  a whole life in misconception.The age old wisdom comes to mind `Know
                  Thyself' through yourself being yourself.Another factor; Edgar Cayce
                  has claimed himself to be the great ancient leader Ra and the great
                  mathematician Pythagoras in previous lifetimes.As far as I know not
                  even Rudolf Steiner would claim to ascertain who he was in previous
                  lifetimes in such an open manner; and further the true understanding
                  of reincarnation of Initiates is not truly understood by the
                  uninitiated.At this point I would like to say; Stephen Hale is
                  greatly respected and (in my view) his investigations into the Karmic
                  relationships between people is well thought through, done in a very
                  concise manner and most importantly in a conscious manner. These
                  investigations, on people who have already passed through the
                  portals, namely Rudolf Steiner himself, directly proves the above
                  writing by Friedrich Rittelmeyer on Rudolf Steiner's view on previous
                  incarnations are done with an objective sense of truth based on
                  knowledge and reason and is a gift invaluable to anthroposophy.I have
                  spent years pondering Edgar Cayce and it is not without undue
                  considerations I put this forward.--- In steiner@yahoogroups.com,
                  Durward Starman <DrStarman@> wrote:>> > > > To: steiner@:
                  Cheeseandsalsa@: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 13:32:21 -0400Subject: Re: [steiner]
                  Edgar Cayce> > > > Barbara Handclow who isn't an anthro said that
                  Cayce is a member and his father of the masons. She wrote that they
                  were of the dark occult brotherhood...I personally do not resonate
                  with what he brought to us. > I do agree - a balance is always good
                  in communications.Any thoughts ... I wonder what Rudolf Steiner would
                  have to say on Edgar Cayce?> > > 1> > .> *******> > > > > > Well, in
                  this particular case I can say flatly that the lady is mistaken.
                  Neither Cayce nor his father were Masons, I know that from personal
                  study and contact with his family and many people who actually knew
                  him here in Virginia Beach. He was not a member of anything, and in
                  fact didn't know about Theosophy or anything esoteric until he began
                  answering questions about such matters in his "readings." He almost
                  never remembered anything he said in trance so they had to have a
                  stenographer take it all down, and he read what he'd said afterwards
                  along with everybody else. He was a simple Christian while awake and
                  never joined anything except the local Presbyterian Church here. His
                  father was a difficult man whom Edgar didn't get along with very
                  well, but he also was not a member of any brotherhood or anything and
                  had nothing to do with Edgar Cayce's work most of his life. > > As to
                  what you don't resonate with in the Cayce Readings, well there's a
                  lot that may be criticized in many ways. I don't know what you've
                  read from them. > > Starman>
                  __________________________________________________________> It's a
                  talkathon – but it's not just talk.> http://www.imtalkathon.com/?
                  source=EML_WLH_Talkathon_JustTalk>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > _________________________________________________________________
                  > Making the world a better place one message at a time.
                  > http://www.imtalkathon.com/?source=EML_WLH_Talkathon_BetterPlace
                  >
                • Durward Starman
                  ******* Why do you connect this to the planet Mars? I connect the trance state to Saturn, as it s a reversion to the state of consciousness of Ancient Saturn.
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jul 11, 2008
                    ******* Why do you connect this to the planet Mars? I connect the trance state to Saturn, as it's a reversion to the state of consciousness of Ancient Saturn.

                    -starman

                    www.DrStarman.com




                    To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
                    From: carynlouise24@...
                    Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 08:19:09 +0000
                    Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce


                    Interesting reactions – Well it is interesting Mars is the
                    reincarnation of the Old Moon. Explains the `trance' state.

                    One thing in life which I cannot stand is when people say `blessings'
                    or `God bless you' – like they have this authority to tell God who to
                    bless who not to bless!

                    Well back to Billy … then

                    --- In steiner@yahoogroups .com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@. ..> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > *******Well, I'm sorry but I have to tell you that some of your
                    information is woefully inaccurate! You could verify this by doing a
                    search online or reading a few books about the Cayce Readings. I'd
                    recommend reading a biography of the man first, such as "There Is A
                    River" by Tom Sugrue, then look through whatever books of excerpts
                    from his psychic readings interest you, like Edgar Cayce on Atlantis,
                    Edgar Cayce on Jesus and His Church, etc. You'll find the information
                    quite similar to Theosophy and anthroposophy, frequently identical.
                    >
                    > The objection of Rittlemeyer' s was about people claiming to be
                    an authority because of who they supposedly were in another life.
                    This has nothing to do with telling what other peoples' past lives
                    were--- which of course Dr. Steiner also did, so Rittlemeyer' s
                    criticiism about "claiming authority" on the basis of previous
                    incarnations couldn't possibly include. He meant saying 'Well, I was
                    so-and-so in a past life and so you should listen to me' (as one poor
                    soul currently does who claims to have been Cayce himself, while
                    producing no evidence of any abilities in this life). Telling people
                    they should study music because they have an unrealized musical gift
                    due to having been a musician in ancient Greece, as the Cayce
                    Readings might do--- well, that's a completely different thing than
                    what Rittlemeyer was talking about, clearly. Dr. Steiner also would
                    identify learning disabilities in children as coming from past lives
                    and use this knowledge in treatment.
                    >
                    > Also, the Readings did not identify Cayce as having been
                    Pythagoras. He did say that in a past life he was an Egyptian
                    initiate unknown to history named Ra Ta, whose memory later became
                    mixed in with the mythological Ra. But he didn't claim people should
                    listen to him because he was that priest in the time of the building
                    of the pyramids. In fact, Cayce didn't ask people to listen to him at
                    all, as he was not a teacher like Steiner. He was a freakish case of
                    an ordinary-seeming man who, because of his past lives, could go into
                    a trance state and connect with the same sources as Blavatsky and
                    Steiner. In his trances, he mainly was asked medical questions about
                    people who were sick. Other stuff was secondary to him and he wasn't
                    sure how much to trust it himself.
                    >
                    > -starmanwww. DrStarman. com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > To: steiner@...: carynlouise24@ ...: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:51:19
                    +0000Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > The Edgar Cayce's I have read are:The Life Story of JesusThe Origin
                    and Destiny of ManRevelationMany Happy Returns My thoughts are:In
                    Friedrich Rittelmeyer' s `RUDOLF STEINER ENTERS MY LIFE' Friedrich
                    writes:`His (Rudolf Steiner) attitude in the Krishnamurti affair
                    shows that he regarded it as the greatest occult sin to claim
                    authority for anyone on the ground of previous incarnations. In the
                    age of the "Consciousness Soul" everyone must appeal with his
                    teaching simply and solely to men's own objective sense of truth, and
                    convince them purely on the basis of reason'.Edgar Cayce in an
                    unconscious state claimed authority for person's previous
                    incarnations and this should be a reason for concern. For instance;
                    say someone like Edgar Cayce had to say to me `you were Mickey Mouse
                    in your previous incarnation' – if I was naïve enough to believe this
                    (because I was seeking the fundamental question of life `who am I') I
                    would spend the rest of my life prancing around thinking to myself `I
                    am Mickey Mouse' and further begin to act, take on the role of,
                    Mickey Mouse - only to find when I pass through the portals of death
                    I was actually Donald Duck in a previous incarnation and thus wasted
                    a whole life in misconception. The age old wisdom comes to mind `Know
                    Thyself' through yourself being yourself.Another factor; Edgar Cayce
                    has claimed himself to be the great ancient leader Ra and the great
                    mathematician Pythagoras in previous lifetimes.As far as I know not
                    even Rudolf Steiner would claim to ascertain who he was in previous
                    lifetimes in such an open manner; and further the true understanding
                    of reincarnation of Initiates is not truly understood by the
                    uninitiated. At this point I would like to say; Stephen Hale is
                    greatly respected and (in my view) his investigations into the Karmic
                    relationships between people is well thought through, done in a very
                    concise manner and most importantly in a conscious manner. These
                    investigations, on people who have already passed through the
                    portals, namely Rudolf Steiner himself, directly proves the above
                    writing by Friedrich Rittelmeyer on Rudolf Steiner's view on previous
                    incarnations are done with an objective sense of truth based on
                    knowledge and reason and is a gift invaluable to anthroposophy. I have
                    spent years pondering Edgar Cayce and it is not without undue
                    considerations I put this forward.--- In steiner@yahoogroups .com,
                    Durward Starman <DrStarman@> wrote:>> > > > To: steiner@:
                    Cheeseandsalsa@ : Mon, 7 Jul 2008 13:32:21 -0400Subject: Re: [steiner]
                    Edgar Cayce> > > > Barbara Handclow who isn't an anthro said that
                    Cayce is a member and his father of the masons. She wrote that they
                    were of the dark occult brotherhood. ..I personally do not resonate
                    with what he brought to us. > I do agree - a balance is always good
                    in communications. Any thoughts ... I wonder what Rudolf Steiner would
                    have to say on Edgar Cayce?> > > 1> > .> *******> > > > > > Well, in
                    this particular case I can say flatly that the lady is mistaken.
                    Neither Cayce nor his father were Masons, I know that from personal
                    study and contact with his family and many people who actually knew
                    him here in Virginia Beach. He was not a member of anything, and in
                    fact didn't know about Theosophy or anything esoteric until he began
                    answering questions about such matters in his "readings." He almost
                    never remembered anything he said in trance so they had to have a
                    stenographer take it all down, and he read what he'd said afterwards
                    along with everybody else. He was a simple Christian while awake and
                    never joined anything except the local Presbyterian Church here. His
                    father was a difficult man whom Edgar didn't get along with very
                    well, but he also was not a member of any brotherhood or anything and
                    had nothing to do with Edgar Cayce's work most of his life. > > As to
                    what you don't resonate with in the Cayce Readings, well there's a
                    lot that may be criticized in many ways. I don't know what you've
                    read from them. > > Starman>
                    ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _> It's a
                    talkathon – but it's not just talk.> http://www.imtalkat hon.com/?
                    source=EML_WLH_ Talkathon_ JustTalk>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                    > Making the world a better place one message at a time.
                    > http://www.imtalkat hon.com/? source=EML_ WLH_Talkathon_ BetterPlace
                    >




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                  • carynlouise24
                    I trace it to the Old Moon stage of clairvoyance for specific corresponding reasons. Arhimanic and his sidekick the untamed Luciferic. We understand during
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jul 14, 2008
                      I trace it to the Old Moon stage of clairvoyance for specific
                      corresponding reasons. Arhimanic and his sidekick the untamed
                      Luciferic. We understand during the Old Moon period the astral body
                      was in development and the mineral was not yet included in the human
                      body, this was a predominately Luciferic stage.

                      In Rudolf Steiner's `Polarities in the Evolution of Mankind' eleven
                      lectures given to members of the Anthroposophical Society in
                      Stuttgart 5 March to 22 November 1920 pg 108 – we read

                      `The Jesuit literature on the material world is much more brilliantly
                      written than the works of many others writers on the subject today.
                      Father Erich Wasmann's work on ants, for example, is really good, you
                      will gain more from reading it than from the pedantic, uninspired
                      writings of other scientists. Many more examples could be given.

                      The (work of the) Jesuits would be excellent if they confined
                      themselves to the material world; it is a deliberate aim (of the
                      Jesuits) to use their description of the material world to encourage
                      people to associate knowledge with the materialistic aspect of the
                      physical world only.

                      The intention is to pretend to human minds that the methods used to
                      gain knowledge cannot be used to investigate the supersensible
                      world. In ancient times Lucifer-dominated individuals suggested that
                      human beings would gain mastery of the world if they made use of
                      ancient divine knowledge, yet evolution had already gone beyond this
                      point.

                      Now we have late followers of those people from post-primeval times
                      pretending to the world that it is not possible to extend knowledge
                      to the supersensible sphere and that knowledge cannot go beyond the
                      sense-perceptible world. In those early times the intention had been
                      to drug people with supersensible knowledge.

                      Now human beings of the same ilk want to use all possible means to
                      push humanity into the physical world; they want human beings stuck
                      in that world and grasp the supersensible world only with the
                      nebulous impulse of faith.

                      In post-primeval times the aim had been to inundate humankind with an
                      excess of supersensible knowledge. Today those late followers want
                      human beings to have less than the right amount of knowledge in this
                      sphere. Past intent was to provide supersensible knowledge that was
                      no longer appropriate. Present intent is to let people have only
                      sense-bound knowledge, making the supersensible world an area where
                      every individual may hold whatever views he or she likes.

                      What would be the outcome if the group of people to whom we are
                      referring were to achieve some kind of victory? These are the people
                      who deliberately make a sharp distinction between knowledge and
                      belief. There are of course large numbers of easily led people who
                      come across the diatribe on the `clear distinction between faith and
                      knowledge' and repeat it; they merely repeat it.

                      What is all this about? The aim is to do the opposite of what those
                      individual in post-primeval times did in their way. In the old days
                      the intention was to prevent humanity from descending completely and
                      taking up its mission on earth. Today the intention is to keep
                      people tied to that mission on earth to prevent their further
                      development, for which the earth would provide the basis. The very
                      people who are now supporting materialism call
                      themselves `spiritualists', or priests of some faith or other,
                      representatives of the supersensible world.

                      In those ancient times the people offering a life in the spirit that
                      was no longer justifiable called themselves materialists. They did
                      so from the point of view which I have characterized. Today a large
                      number of people who really wish to keep humanity bound to the
                      material world call themselves representatives of the spiritual
                      world.'

                      Page 50

                      Think of all the efforts we go to in spiritual science working
                      towards anthroposophy to form sufficiently clear ideas; for
                      instances, as to how far the things we become aware of in human
                      minds, in the form of dreams, may or may not be reflecting the
                      truth. As human beings we cannot immediately distinguish truth from
                      falsehood when something appears in the course of a dream. The same
                      state of mind arises for a congregation when they are told lies by
                      people who know those lies will be believed. The soul is brought to
                      a state, a mood, by those lies where it becomes the willing tool of
                      those desiring power. It is easiest to get people into your power by
                      planting illusions in their unsuspecting minds'.




                      --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > ******* Why do you connect this to the planet Mars? I connect the
                      trance state to Saturn, as it's a reversion to the state of
                      consciousness of Ancient Saturn.
                      > -starman
                      > www.DrStarman.com
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > To: steiner@...: carynlouise24@...: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 08:19:09
                      +0000Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Interesting reactions – Well it is interesting Mars is the
                      reincarnation of the Old Moon. Explains the `trance' state.One thing
                      in life which I cannot stand is when people say `blessings' or `God
                      bless you' – like they have this authority to tell God who to bless
                      who not to bless!Well back to Billy … then --- In
                      steiner@yahoogroups.com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@> wrote:>> >
                      *******Well, I'm sorry but I have to tell you that some of your
                      information is woefully inaccurate! You could verify this by doing a
                      search online or reading a few books about the Cayce Readings. I'd
                      recommend reading a biography of the man first, such as "There Is A
                      River" by Tom Sugrue, then look through whatever books of excerpts
                      from his psychic readings interest you, like Edgar Cayce on Atlantis,
                      Edgar Cayce on Jesus and His Church, etc. You'll find the information
                      quite similar to Theosophy and anthroposophy, frequently identical.>
                      > The objection of Rittlemeyer's was about people claiming to be an
                      authority because of who they supposedly were in another life. This
                      has nothing to do with telling what other peoples' past lives were---
                      which of course Dr. Steiner also did, so Rittlemeyer's criticiism
                      about "claiming authority" on the basis of previous incarnations
                      couldn't possibly include. He meant saying 'Well, I was so-and-so in
                      a past life and so you should listen to me' (as one poor soul
                      currently does who claims to have been Cayce himself, while producing
                      no evidence of any abilities in this life). Telling people they
                      should study music because they have an unrealized musical gift due
                      to having been a musician in ancient Greece, as the Cayce Readings
                      might do--- well, that's a completely different thing than what
                      Rittlemeyer was talking about, clearly. Dr. Steiner also would
                      identify learning disabilities in children as coming from past lives
                      and use this knowledge in treatment.> > Also, the Readings did not
                      identify Cayce as having been Pythagoras. He did say that in a past
                      life he was an Egyptian initiate unknown to history named Ra Ta,
                      whose memory later became mixed in with the mythological Ra. But he
                      didn't claim people should listen to him because he was that priest
                      in the time of the building of the pyramids. In fact, Cayce didn't
                      ask people to listen to him at all, as he was not a teacher like
                      Steiner. He was a freakish case of an ordinary-seeming man who,
                      because of his past lives, could go into a trance state and connect
                      with the same sources as Blavatsky and Steiner. In his trances, he
                      mainly was asked medical questions about people who were sick. Other
                      stuff was secondary to him and he wasn't sure how much to trust it
                      himself.> > -starmanwww.DrStarman.com> > > > To: steiner@:
                      carynlouise24@: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:51:19 +0000Subject: [steiner] Re:
                      Edgar Cayce> > > > > The Edgar Cayce's I have read are:The Life Story
                      of JesusThe Origin and Destiny of ManRevelationMany Happy Returns My
                      thoughts are:In Friedrich Rittelmeyer's `RUDOLF STEINER ENTERS MY
                      LIFE' Friedrich writes:`His (Rudolf Steiner) attitude in the
                      Krishnamurti affair shows that he regarded it as the greatest occult
                      sin to claim authority for anyone on the ground of previous
                      incarnations. In the age of the "Consciousness Soul" everyone must
                      appeal with his teaching simply and solely to men's own objective
                      sense of truth, and convince them purely on the basis of
                      reason'.Edgar Cayce in an unconscious state claimed authority for
                      person's previous incarnations and this should be a reason for
                      concern. For instance; say someone like Edgar Cayce had to say to me
                      `you were Mickey Mouse in your previous incarnation' – if I was naïve
                      enough to believe this (because I was seeking the fundamental
                      question of life `who am I') I would spend the rest of my life
                      prancing around thinking to myself `I am Mickey Mouse' and further
                      begin to act, take on the role of, Mickey Mouse - only to find when I
                      pass through the portals of death I was actually Donald Duck in a
                      previous incarnation and thus wasted a whole life in
                      misconception.The age old wisdom comes to mind `Know Thyself' through
                      yourself being yourself.Another factor; Edgar Cayce has claimed
                      himself to be the great ancient leader Ra and the great mathematician
                      Pythagoras in previous lifetimes.As far as I know not even Rudolf
                      Steiner would claim to ascertain who he was in previous lifetimes in
                      such an open manner; and further the true understanding of
                      reincarnation of Initiates is not truly understood by the
                      uninitiated.At this point I would like to say; Stephen Hale is
                      greatly respected and (in my view) his investigations into the Karmic
                      relationships between people is well thought through, done in a very
                      concise manner and most importantly in a conscious manner. These
                      investigations, on people who have already passed through the
                      portals, namely Rudolf Steiner himself, directly proves the above
                      writing by Friedrich Rittelmeyer on Rudolf Steiner's view on previous
                      incarnations are done with an objective sense of truth based on
                      knowledge and reason and is a gift invaluable to anthroposophy.I have
                      spent years pondering Edgar Cayce and it is not without undue
                      considerations I put this forward.--- In steiner@yahoogroups.com,
                      Durward Starman <DrStarman@> wrote:>> > > > To: steiner@:
                      Cheeseandsalsa@: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 13:32:21 -0400Subject: Re: [steiner]
                      Edgar Cayce> > > > Barbara Handclow who isn't an anthro said that
                      Cayce is a member and his father of the masons. She wrote that they
                      were of the dark occult brotherhood...I personally do not resonate
                      with what he brought to us. > I do agree - a balance is always good
                      in communications.Any thoughts ... I wonder what Rudolf Steiner would
                      have to say on Edgar Cayce?> > > 1> > .> *******> > > > > > Well, in
                      this particular case I can say flatly that the lady is mistaken.
                      Neither Cayce nor his father were Masons, I know that from personal
                      study and contact with his family and many people who actually knew
                      him here in Virginia Beach. He was not a member of anything, and in
                      fact didn't know about Theosophy or anything esoteric until he began
                      answering questions about such matters in his "readings." He almost
                      never remembered anything he said in trance so they had to have a
                      stenographer take it all down, and he read what he'd said afterwards
                      along with everybody else. He was a simple Christian while awake and
                      never joined anything except the local Presbyterian Church here. His
                      father was a difficult man whom Edgar didn't get along with very
                      well, but he also was not a member of any brotherhood or anything and
                      had nothing to do with Edgar Cayce's work most of his life. > > As to
                      what you don't resonate with in the Cayce Readings, well there's a
                      lot that may be criticized in many ways. I don't know what you've
                      read from them. > > Starman>
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