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Re: Edgar Cayce

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  • Mathew Morrell
    ... Steven Hale is a 3rd rate charlatan and moral retrograde. I spit on his name and anyone who mentions it in this forum.
    Message 1 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
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      Caryne Louise said:

      > At this point I would like to say; Stephen Hale is greatly respected
      > and (in my view) his investigations into the Karmic relationships
      > between people is well thought through...

      Steven Hale is a 3rd rate charlatan and moral retrograde. I spit on
      his name and anyone who mentions it in this forum.
    • Durward Starman
      *******Who is he? I ve never heard of him. -starmanwww.DrStarman.com To: steiner@yahoogroups.comFrom: tma4cbt@juno.comDate: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 20:37:24
      Message 2 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
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        *******Who is he? I've never heard of him.
         
        -starman

        www.DrStarman.com




        To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
        From: tma4cbt@...
        Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 20:37:24 +0000
        Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce


        Caryne Louise said:

        > At this point I would like to say; Stephen Hale is greatly respected
        > and (in my view) his investigations into the Karmic relationships
        > between people is well thought through...

        Steven Hale is a 3rd rate charlatan and moral retrograde. I spit on
        his name and anyone who mentions it in this forum.




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      • John Massengale
        ... I m not interested in spitting or being told what to say here. I will try signing myself off. If that doesn t work, please sign me off. thanks
        Message 3 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
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          On Jul 10, 2008, at 4:37 PM, Mathew Morrell wrote:

          I spit on 
          his name and anyone who mentions it in this forum. 

          I'm not interested in spitting or being told what to say here.

          I will try signing myself off. If that doesn't work, please sign me off.

          thanks
        • Mathew Morrell
          ... Steven Hale is that psycho pomp you removed from this forum a couple years ago, who joined this forum, it seems, for no other purpose than to clog it up,
          Message 4 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
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            --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > *******Who is he? I've never heard of him.
            >

            Steven Hale is that psycho pomp you removed from this forum a couple years ago, who joined this forum, it seems, for no other purpose than to clog it up, undermine, and manipulate people like me with his overbearing, ego-centric personality.

            According to my sources, Steve Hale recently accused Starman of being in the mold of the Aryan Nation.  That's just one things he's accused Starman and myself of being.  There are many more lies and falsehoods that pour from this person's mouth.  Mr Hale has made a profession of creating devils and unleashing them through anthroposophical discussion forums.

            Mathew  

          • Durward Starman
            *******Thank you, Matthew. I d forgotten all about this rather unpleasant fellow. Just looked up his rantings when he was briefly a member of this list. No
            Message 5 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
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              *******Thank you, Matthew. I'd forgotten all about this rather unpleasant fellow. Just looked up his rantings when he was briefly a member of this list. No wonder you reacted so.
               
                  I see no evidence of any singular insight into peoples' past lives, or anything esoteric or spiritual for that matter, in this person. He appears to be just another egotist who is out to twist anthroposophy into something that supports his own opinions, rather similar to the fellow I mentioned who says he's the reincarnation of Edgar Cayce. They're a dime a dozen online here.
               
                 I would not place much faith in anything he had to say about Edgar Cayce, or Rudolf Steiner, for that matter. He might have something worthwhile to say, but I would say one would have to critically examine every statement such a person makes for falsehoods.
               
              -starman

              www.DrStarman.com




              To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
              From: tma4cbt@...
              Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 21:35:05 +0000
              Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce



              --- In steiner@yahoogroups .com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@.. .> wrote:
              >
              >
              > *******Who is he? I've never heard of him.
              >

              Steven Hale is that psycho pomp you removed from this forum a couple years ago, who joined this forum, it seems, for no other purpose than to clog it up, undermine, and manipulate people like me with his overbearing, ego-centric personality.

              According to my sources, Steve Hale recently accused Starman of being in the mold of the Aryan Nation.  That's just one things he's accused Starman and myself of being.  There are many more lies and falsehoods that pour from this person's mouth.  Mr Hale has made a profession of creating devils and unleashing them through anthroposophical discussion forums.

              Mathew  




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            • happypick2000
              ... I vaguely recall someone of that name although not the particulars. Unfortunately, this world seems to be full of unsavory types, and the best I can say in
              Message 6 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
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                --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "Mathew Morrell" <tma4cbt@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@> wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > > *******Who is he? I've never heard of him.
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                > Steven Hale is that psycho pomp you removed from this forum a couple
                > years ago, who joined this forum, it seems, for no other purpose than to
                > clog it up, undermine, and manipulate people like me with his
                > overbearing, ego-centric personality.
                >
                > According to my sources, Steve Hale recently accused Starman of being in
                > the mold of the Aryan Nation. That's just one things he's
                > accused Starman and myself of being. There are many more lies and
                > falsehoods that pour from this person's mouth. Mr Hale has made a
                > profession of creating devils and unleashing them through
                > anthroposophical discussion forums.
                >
                > Mathew
                >
                I vaguely recall someone of that name although not the particulars.
                Unfortunately, this world seems to be full of unsavory types, and the
                best I can say in such cases is to the effect that they will be held
                responsible for any and all actions of theirs, and in a well deserved
                way. I shudder to ponder such fates and can only try to overlook
                harmful events and people while learning from them in the way Steiner
                mentions coming across the dead dog with such beautiful teeth, but I
                fail far too often.

                Blessings,

                Sheila
              • Durward Starman
                *******Sorry for Matthew s temper. But in any gathering of people an angry outburst will happen now and then. It s not a reason for leaving a group. I wonder,
                Message 7 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
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                  *******Sorry for Matthew's temper. But in any gathering of people an angry outburst will happen now and then. It's not a reason for leaving a group.
                   
                  I wonder, do you belong to an anthroposophical study group? Would you do the same there?

                  -starman

                  www.DrStarman.com




                  To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
                  From: john@...
                  Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 17:34:15 -0400
                  Subject: Re: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce



                  On Jul 10, 2008, at 4:37 PM, Mathew Morrell wrote:

                  I spit on 
                  his name and anyone who mentions it in this forum. 

                  I'm not interested in spitting or being told what to say here.

                  I will try signing myself off. If that doesn't work, please sign me off.

                  thanks




                  Making the world a better place one message at a time. Check out the i'm Talkathon.
                • carynlouise24
                  Interesting reactions – Well it is interesting Mars is the reincarnation of the Old Moon. Explains the `trance state. One thing in life which I cannot
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jul 11, 2008
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                    Interesting reactions – Well it is interesting Mars is the
                    reincarnation of the Old Moon. Explains the `trance' state.

                    One thing in life which I cannot stand is when people say `blessings'
                    or `God bless you' – like they have this authority to tell God who to
                    bless who not to bless!

                    Well back to Billy … then



                    --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > *******Well, I'm sorry but I have to tell you that some of your
                    information is woefully inaccurate! You could verify this by doing a
                    search online or reading a few books about the Cayce Readings. I'd
                    recommend reading a biography of the man first, such as "There Is A
                    River" by Tom Sugrue, then look through whatever books of excerpts
                    from his psychic readings interest you, like Edgar Cayce on Atlantis,
                    Edgar Cayce on Jesus and His Church, etc. You'll find the information
                    quite similar to Theosophy and anthroposophy, frequently identical.
                    >
                    > The objection of Rittlemeyer's was about people claiming to be
                    an authority because of who they supposedly were in another life.
                    This has nothing to do with telling what other peoples' past lives
                    were--- which of course Dr. Steiner also did, so Rittlemeyer's
                    criticiism about "claiming authority" on the basis of previous
                    incarnations couldn't possibly include. He meant saying 'Well, I was
                    so-and-so in a past life and so you should listen to me' (as one poor
                    soul currently does who claims to have been Cayce himself, while
                    producing no evidence of any abilities in this life). Telling people
                    they should study music because they have an unrealized musical gift
                    due to having been a musician in ancient Greece, as the Cayce
                    Readings might do--- well, that's a completely different thing than
                    what Rittlemeyer was talking about, clearly. Dr. Steiner also would
                    identify learning disabilities in children as coming from past lives
                    and use this knowledge in treatment.
                    >
                    > Also, the Readings did not identify Cayce as having been
                    Pythagoras. He did say that in a past life he was an Egyptian
                    initiate unknown to history named Ra Ta, whose memory later became
                    mixed in with the mythological Ra. But he didn't claim people should
                    listen to him because he was that priest in the time of the building
                    of the pyramids. In fact, Cayce didn't ask people to listen to him at
                    all, as he was not a teacher like Steiner. He was a freakish case of
                    an ordinary-seeming man who, because of his past lives, could go into
                    a trance state and connect with the same sources as Blavatsky and
                    Steiner. In his trances, he mainly was asked medical questions about
                    people who were sick. Other stuff was secondary to him and he wasn't
                    sure how much to trust it himself.
                    >
                    > -starmanwww.DrStarman.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > To: steiner@...: carynlouise24@...: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:51:19
                    +0000Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > The Edgar Cayce's I have read are:The Life Story of JesusThe Origin
                    and Destiny of ManRevelationMany Happy Returns My thoughts are:In
                    Friedrich Rittelmeyer's `RUDOLF STEINER ENTERS MY LIFE' Friedrich
                    writes:`His (Rudolf Steiner) attitude in the Krishnamurti affair
                    shows that he regarded it as the greatest occult sin to claim
                    authority for anyone on the ground of previous incarnations. In the
                    age of the "Consciousness Soul" everyone must appeal with his
                    teaching simply and solely to men's own objective sense of truth, and
                    convince them purely on the basis of reason'.Edgar Cayce in an
                    unconscious state claimed authority for person's previous
                    incarnations and this should be a reason for concern. For instance;
                    say someone like Edgar Cayce had to say to me `you were Mickey Mouse
                    in your previous incarnation' – if I was naïve enough to believe this
                    (because I was seeking the fundamental question of life `who am I') I
                    would spend the rest of my life prancing around thinking to myself `I
                    am Mickey Mouse' and further begin to act, take on the role of,
                    Mickey Mouse - only to find when I pass through the portals of death
                    I was actually Donald Duck in a previous incarnation and thus wasted
                    a whole life in misconception.The age old wisdom comes to mind `Know
                    Thyself' through yourself being yourself.Another factor; Edgar Cayce
                    has claimed himself to be the great ancient leader Ra and the great
                    mathematician Pythagoras in previous lifetimes.As far as I know not
                    even Rudolf Steiner would claim to ascertain who he was in previous
                    lifetimes in such an open manner; and further the true understanding
                    of reincarnation of Initiates is not truly understood by the
                    uninitiated.At this point I would like to say; Stephen Hale is
                    greatly respected and (in my view) his investigations into the Karmic
                    relationships between people is well thought through, done in a very
                    concise manner and most importantly in a conscious manner. These
                    investigations, on people who have already passed through the
                    portals, namely Rudolf Steiner himself, directly proves the above
                    writing by Friedrich Rittelmeyer on Rudolf Steiner's view on previous
                    incarnations are done with an objective sense of truth based on
                    knowledge and reason and is a gift invaluable to anthroposophy.I have
                    spent years pondering Edgar Cayce and it is not without undue
                    considerations I put this forward.--- In steiner@yahoogroups.com,
                    Durward Starman <DrStarman@> wrote:>> > > > To: steiner@:
                    Cheeseandsalsa@: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 13:32:21 -0400Subject: Re: [steiner]
                    Edgar Cayce> > > > Barbara Handclow who isn't an anthro said that
                    Cayce is a member and his father of the masons. She wrote that they
                    were of the dark occult brotherhood...I personally do not resonate
                    with what he brought to us. > I do agree - a balance is always good
                    in communications.Any thoughts ... I wonder what Rudolf Steiner would
                    have to say on Edgar Cayce?> > > 1> > .> *******> > > > > > Well, in
                    this particular case I can say flatly that the lady is mistaken.
                    Neither Cayce nor his father were Masons, I know that from personal
                    study and contact with his family and many people who actually knew
                    him here in Virginia Beach. He was not a member of anything, and in
                    fact didn't know about Theosophy or anything esoteric until he began
                    answering questions about such matters in his "readings." He almost
                    never remembered anything he said in trance so they had to have a
                    stenographer take it all down, and he read what he'd said afterwards
                    along with everybody else. He was a simple Christian while awake and
                    never joined anything except the local Presbyterian Church here. His
                    father was a difficult man whom Edgar didn't get along with very
                    well, but he also was not a member of any brotherhood or anything and
                    had nothing to do with Edgar Cayce's work most of his life. > > As to
                    what you don't resonate with in the Cayce Readings, well there's a
                    lot that may be criticized in many ways. I don't know what you've
                    read from them. > > Starman>
                    __________________________________________________________> It's a
                    talkathon – but it's not just talk.> http://www.imtalkathon.com/?
                    source=EML_WLH_Talkathon_JustTalk>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > _________________________________________________________________
                    > Making the world a better place one message at a time.
                    > http://www.imtalkathon.com/?source=EML_WLH_Talkathon_BetterPlace
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                  • Durward Starman
                    ******* Why do you connect this to the planet Mars? I connect the trance state to Saturn, as it s a reversion to the state of consciousness of Ancient Saturn.
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jul 11, 2008
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                      ******* Why do you connect this to the planet Mars? I connect the trance state to Saturn, as it's a reversion to the state of consciousness of Ancient Saturn.

                      -starman

                      www.DrStarman.com




                      To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
                      From: carynlouise24@...
                      Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 08:19:09 +0000
                      Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce


                      Interesting reactions – Well it is interesting Mars is the
                      reincarnation of the Old Moon. Explains the `trance' state.

                      One thing in life which I cannot stand is when people say `blessings'
                      or `God bless you' – like they have this authority to tell God who to
                      bless who not to bless!

                      Well back to Billy … then

                      --- In steiner@yahoogroups .com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@. ..> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > *******Well, I'm sorry but I have to tell you that some of your
                      information is woefully inaccurate! You could verify this by doing a
                      search online or reading a few books about the Cayce Readings. I'd
                      recommend reading a biography of the man first, such as "There Is A
                      River" by Tom Sugrue, then look through whatever books of excerpts
                      from his psychic readings interest you, like Edgar Cayce on Atlantis,
                      Edgar Cayce on Jesus and His Church, etc. You'll find the information
                      quite similar to Theosophy and anthroposophy, frequently identical.
                      >
                      > The objection of Rittlemeyer' s was about people claiming to be
                      an authority because of who they supposedly were in another life.
                      This has nothing to do with telling what other peoples' past lives
                      were--- which of course Dr. Steiner also did, so Rittlemeyer' s
                      criticiism about "claiming authority" on the basis of previous
                      incarnations couldn't possibly include. He meant saying 'Well, I was
                      so-and-so in a past life and so you should listen to me' (as one poor
                      soul currently does who claims to have been Cayce himself, while
                      producing no evidence of any abilities in this life). Telling people
                      they should study music because they have an unrealized musical gift
                      due to having been a musician in ancient Greece, as the Cayce
                      Readings might do--- well, that's a completely different thing than
                      what Rittlemeyer was talking about, clearly. Dr. Steiner also would
                      identify learning disabilities in children as coming from past lives
                      and use this knowledge in treatment.
                      >
                      > Also, the Readings did not identify Cayce as having been
                      Pythagoras. He did say that in a past life he was an Egyptian
                      initiate unknown to history named Ra Ta, whose memory later became
                      mixed in with the mythological Ra. But he didn't claim people should
                      listen to him because he was that priest in the time of the building
                      of the pyramids. In fact, Cayce didn't ask people to listen to him at
                      all, as he was not a teacher like Steiner. He was a freakish case of
                      an ordinary-seeming man who, because of his past lives, could go into
                      a trance state and connect with the same sources as Blavatsky and
                      Steiner. In his trances, he mainly was asked medical questions about
                      people who were sick. Other stuff was secondary to him and he wasn't
                      sure how much to trust it himself.
                      >
                      > -starmanwww. DrStarman. com
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > To: steiner@...: carynlouise24@ ...: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:51:19
                      +0000Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > The Edgar Cayce's I have read are:The Life Story of JesusThe Origin
                      and Destiny of ManRevelationMany Happy Returns My thoughts are:In
                      Friedrich Rittelmeyer' s `RUDOLF STEINER ENTERS MY LIFE' Friedrich
                      writes:`His (Rudolf Steiner) attitude in the Krishnamurti affair
                      shows that he regarded it as the greatest occult sin to claim
                      authority for anyone on the ground of previous incarnations. In the
                      age of the "Consciousness Soul" everyone must appeal with his
                      teaching simply and solely to men's own objective sense of truth, and
                      convince them purely on the basis of reason'.Edgar Cayce in an
                      unconscious state claimed authority for person's previous
                      incarnations and this should be a reason for concern. For instance;
                      say someone like Edgar Cayce had to say to me `you were Mickey Mouse
                      in your previous incarnation' – if I was naïve enough to believe this
                      (because I was seeking the fundamental question of life `who am I') I
                      would spend the rest of my life prancing around thinking to myself `I
                      am Mickey Mouse' and further begin to act, take on the role of,
                      Mickey Mouse - only to find when I pass through the portals of death
                      I was actually Donald Duck in a previous incarnation and thus wasted
                      a whole life in misconception. The age old wisdom comes to mind `Know
                      Thyself' through yourself being yourself.Another factor; Edgar Cayce
                      has claimed himself to be the great ancient leader Ra and the great
                      mathematician Pythagoras in previous lifetimes.As far as I know not
                      even Rudolf Steiner would claim to ascertain who he was in previous
                      lifetimes in such an open manner; and further the true understanding
                      of reincarnation of Initiates is not truly understood by the
                      uninitiated. At this point I would like to say; Stephen Hale is
                      greatly respected and (in my view) his investigations into the Karmic
                      relationships between people is well thought through, done in a very
                      concise manner and most importantly in a conscious manner. These
                      investigations, on people who have already passed through the
                      portals, namely Rudolf Steiner himself, directly proves the above
                      writing by Friedrich Rittelmeyer on Rudolf Steiner's view on previous
                      incarnations are done with an objective sense of truth based on
                      knowledge and reason and is a gift invaluable to anthroposophy. I have
                      spent years pondering Edgar Cayce and it is not without undue
                      considerations I put this forward.--- In steiner@yahoogroups .com,
                      Durward Starman <DrStarman@> wrote:>> > > > To: steiner@:
                      Cheeseandsalsa@ : Mon, 7 Jul 2008 13:32:21 -0400Subject: Re: [steiner]
                      Edgar Cayce> > > > Barbara Handclow who isn't an anthro said that
                      Cayce is a member and his father of the masons. She wrote that they
                      were of the dark occult brotherhood. ..I personally do not resonate
                      with what he brought to us. > I do agree - a balance is always good
                      in communications. Any thoughts ... I wonder what Rudolf Steiner would
                      have to say on Edgar Cayce?> > > 1> > .> *******> > > > > > Well, in
                      this particular case I can say flatly that the lady is mistaken.
                      Neither Cayce nor his father were Masons, I know that from personal
                      study and contact with his family and many people who actually knew
                      him here in Virginia Beach. He was not a member of anything, and in
                      fact didn't know about Theosophy or anything esoteric until he began
                      answering questions about such matters in his "readings." He almost
                      never remembered anything he said in trance so they had to have a
                      stenographer take it all down, and he read what he'd said afterwards
                      along with everybody else. He was a simple Christian while awake and
                      never joined anything except the local Presbyterian Church here. His
                      father was a difficult man whom Edgar didn't get along with very
                      well, but he also was not a member of any brotherhood or anything and
                      had nothing to do with Edgar Cayce's work most of his life. > > As to
                      what you don't resonate with in the Cayce Readings, well there's a
                      lot that may be criticized in many ways. I don't know what you've
                      read from them. > > Starman>
                      ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _> It's a
                      talkathon – but it's not just talk.> http://www.imtalkat hon.com/?
                      source=EML_WLH_ Talkathon_ JustTalk>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                      > Making the world a better place one message at a time.
                      > http://www.imtalkat hon.com/? source=EML_ WLH_Talkathon_ BetterPlace
                      >




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                    • carynlouise24
                      I trace it to the Old Moon stage of clairvoyance for specific corresponding reasons. Arhimanic and his sidekick the untamed Luciferic. We understand during
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jul 14, 2008
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                        I trace it to the Old Moon stage of clairvoyance for specific
                        corresponding reasons. Arhimanic and his sidekick the untamed
                        Luciferic. We understand during the Old Moon period the astral body
                        was in development and the mineral was not yet included in the human
                        body, this was a predominately Luciferic stage.

                        In Rudolf Steiner's `Polarities in the Evolution of Mankind' eleven
                        lectures given to members of the Anthroposophical Society in
                        Stuttgart 5 March to 22 November 1920 pg 108 – we read

                        `The Jesuit literature on the material world is much more brilliantly
                        written than the works of many others writers on the subject today.
                        Father Erich Wasmann's work on ants, for example, is really good, you
                        will gain more from reading it than from the pedantic, uninspired
                        writings of other scientists. Many more examples could be given.

                        The (work of the) Jesuits would be excellent if they confined
                        themselves to the material world; it is a deliberate aim (of the
                        Jesuits) to use their description of the material world to encourage
                        people to associate knowledge with the materialistic aspect of the
                        physical world only.

                        The intention is to pretend to human minds that the methods used to
                        gain knowledge cannot be used to investigate the supersensible
                        world. In ancient times Lucifer-dominated individuals suggested that
                        human beings would gain mastery of the world if they made use of
                        ancient divine knowledge, yet evolution had already gone beyond this
                        point.

                        Now we have late followers of those people from post-primeval times
                        pretending to the world that it is not possible to extend knowledge
                        to the supersensible sphere and that knowledge cannot go beyond the
                        sense-perceptible world. In those early times the intention had been
                        to drug people with supersensible knowledge.

                        Now human beings of the same ilk want to use all possible means to
                        push humanity into the physical world; they want human beings stuck
                        in that world and grasp the supersensible world only with the
                        nebulous impulse of faith.

                        In post-primeval times the aim had been to inundate humankind with an
                        excess of supersensible knowledge. Today those late followers want
                        human beings to have less than the right amount of knowledge in this
                        sphere. Past intent was to provide supersensible knowledge that was
                        no longer appropriate. Present intent is to let people have only
                        sense-bound knowledge, making the supersensible world an area where
                        every individual may hold whatever views he or she likes.

                        What would be the outcome if the group of people to whom we are
                        referring were to achieve some kind of victory? These are the people
                        who deliberately make a sharp distinction between knowledge and
                        belief. There are of course large numbers of easily led people who
                        come across the diatribe on the `clear distinction between faith and
                        knowledge' and repeat it; they merely repeat it.

                        What is all this about? The aim is to do the opposite of what those
                        individual in post-primeval times did in their way. In the old days
                        the intention was to prevent humanity from descending completely and
                        taking up its mission on earth. Today the intention is to keep
                        people tied to that mission on earth to prevent their further
                        development, for which the earth would provide the basis. The very
                        people who are now supporting materialism call
                        themselves `spiritualists', or priests of some faith or other,
                        representatives of the supersensible world.

                        In those ancient times the people offering a life in the spirit that
                        was no longer justifiable called themselves materialists. They did
                        so from the point of view which I have characterized. Today a large
                        number of people who really wish to keep humanity bound to the
                        material world call themselves representatives of the spiritual
                        world.'

                        Page 50

                        Think of all the efforts we go to in spiritual science working
                        towards anthroposophy to form sufficiently clear ideas; for
                        instances, as to how far the things we become aware of in human
                        minds, in the form of dreams, may or may not be reflecting the
                        truth. As human beings we cannot immediately distinguish truth from
                        falsehood when something appears in the course of a dream. The same
                        state of mind arises for a congregation when they are told lies by
                        people who know those lies will be believed. The soul is brought to
                        a state, a mood, by those lies where it becomes the willing tool of
                        those desiring power. It is easiest to get people into your power by
                        planting illusions in their unsuspecting minds'.




                        --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > ******* Why do you connect this to the planet Mars? I connect the
                        trance state to Saturn, as it's a reversion to the state of
                        consciousness of Ancient Saturn.
                        > -starman
                        > www.DrStarman.com
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > To: steiner@...: carynlouise24@...: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 08:19:09
                        +0000Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Interesting reactions – Well it is interesting Mars is the
                        reincarnation of the Old Moon. Explains the `trance' state.One thing
                        in life which I cannot stand is when people say `blessings' or `God
                        bless you' – like they have this authority to tell God who to bless
                        who not to bless!Well back to Billy … then --- In
                        steiner@yahoogroups.com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@> wrote:>> >
                        *******Well, I'm sorry but I have to tell you that some of your
                        information is woefully inaccurate! You could verify this by doing a
                        search online or reading a few books about the Cayce Readings. I'd
                        recommend reading a biography of the man first, such as "There Is A
                        River" by Tom Sugrue, then look through whatever books of excerpts
                        from his psychic readings interest you, like Edgar Cayce on Atlantis,
                        Edgar Cayce on Jesus and His Church, etc. You'll find the information
                        quite similar to Theosophy and anthroposophy, frequently identical.>
                        > The objection of Rittlemeyer's was about people claiming to be an
                        authority because of who they supposedly were in another life. This
                        has nothing to do with telling what other peoples' past lives were---
                        which of course Dr. Steiner also did, so Rittlemeyer's criticiism
                        about "claiming authority" on the basis of previous incarnations
                        couldn't possibly include. He meant saying 'Well, I was so-and-so in
                        a past life and so you should listen to me' (as one poor soul
                        currently does who claims to have been Cayce himself, while producing
                        no evidence of any abilities in this life). Telling people they
                        should study music because they have an unrealized musical gift due
                        to having been a musician in ancient Greece, as the Cayce Readings
                        might do--- well, that's a completely different thing than what
                        Rittlemeyer was talking about, clearly. Dr. Steiner also would
                        identify learning disabilities in children as coming from past lives
                        and use this knowledge in treatment.> > Also, the Readings did not
                        identify Cayce as having been Pythagoras. He did say that in a past
                        life he was an Egyptian initiate unknown to history named Ra Ta,
                        whose memory later became mixed in with the mythological Ra. But he
                        didn't claim people should listen to him because he was that priest
                        in the time of the building of the pyramids. In fact, Cayce didn't
                        ask people to listen to him at all, as he was not a teacher like
                        Steiner. He was a freakish case of an ordinary-seeming man who,
                        because of his past lives, could go into a trance state and connect
                        with the same sources as Blavatsky and Steiner. In his trances, he
                        mainly was asked medical questions about people who were sick. Other
                        stuff was secondary to him and he wasn't sure how much to trust it
                        himself.> > -starmanwww.DrStarman.com> > > > To: steiner@:
                        carynlouise24@: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:51:19 +0000Subject: [steiner] Re:
                        Edgar Cayce> > > > > The Edgar Cayce's I have read are:The Life Story
                        of JesusThe Origin and Destiny of ManRevelationMany Happy Returns My
                        thoughts are:In Friedrich Rittelmeyer's `RUDOLF STEINER ENTERS MY
                        LIFE' Friedrich writes:`His (Rudolf Steiner) attitude in the
                        Krishnamurti affair shows that he regarded it as the greatest occult
                        sin to claim authority for anyone on the ground of previous
                        incarnations. In the age of the "Consciousness Soul" everyone must
                        appeal with his teaching simply and solely to men's own objective
                        sense of truth, and convince them purely on the basis of
                        reason'.Edgar Cayce in an unconscious state claimed authority for
                        person's previous incarnations and this should be a reason for
                        concern. For instance; say someone like Edgar Cayce had to say to me
                        `you were Mickey Mouse in your previous incarnation' – if I was naïve
                        enough to believe this (because I was seeking the fundamental
                        question of life `who am I') I would spend the rest of my life
                        prancing around thinking to myself `I am Mickey Mouse' and further
                        begin to act, take on the role of, Mickey Mouse - only to find when I
                        pass through the portals of death I was actually Donald Duck in a
                        previous incarnation and thus wasted a whole life in
                        misconception.The age old wisdom comes to mind `Know Thyself' through
                        yourself being yourself.Another factor; Edgar Cayce has claimed
                        himself to be the great ancient leader Ra and the great mathematician
                        Pythagoras in previous lifetimes.As far as I know not even Rudolf
                        Steiner would claim to ascertain who he was in previous lifetimes in
                        such an open manner; and further the true understanding of
                        reincarnation of Initiates is not truly understood by the
                        uninitiated.At this point I would like to say; Stephen Hale is
                        greatly respected and (in my view) his investigations into the Karmic
                        relationships between people is well thought through, done in a very
                        concise manner and most importantly in a conscious manner. These
                        investigations, on people who have already passed through the
                        portals, namely Rudolf Steiner himself, directly proves the above
                        writing by Friedrich Rittelmeyer on Rudolf Steiner's view on previous
                        incarnations are done with an objective sense of truth based on
                        knowledge and reason and is a gift invaluable to anthroposophy.I have
                        spent years pondering Edgar Cayce and it is not without undue
                        considerations I put this forward.--- In steiner@yahoogroups.com,
                        Durward Starman <DrStarman@> wrote:>> > > > To: steiner@:
                        Cheeseandsalsa@: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 13:32:21 -0400Subject: Re: [steiner]
                        Edgar Cayce> > > > Barbara Handclow who isn't an anthro said that
                        Cayce is a member and his father of the masons. She wrote that they
                        were of the dark occult brotherhood...I personally do not resonate
                        with what he brought to us. > I do agree - a balance is always good
                        in communications.Any thoughts ... I wonder what Rudolf Steiner would
                        have to say on Edgar Cayce?> > > 1> > .> *******> > > > > > Well, in
                        this particular case I can say flatly that the lady is mistaken.
                        Neither Cayce nor his father were Masons, I know that from personal
                        study and contact with his family and many people who actually knew
                        him here in Virginia Beach. He was not a member of anything, and in
                        fact didn't know about Theosophy or anything esoteric until he began
                        answering questions about such matters in his "readings." He almost
                        never remembered anything he said in trance so they had to have a
                        stenographer take it all down, and he read what he'd said afterwards
                        along with everybody else. He was a simple Christian while awake and
                        never joined anything except the local Presbyterian Church here. His
                        father was a difficult man whom Edgar didn't get along with very
                        well, but he also was not a member of any brotherhood or anything and
                        had nothing to do with Edgar Cayce's work most of his life. > > As to
                        what you don't resonate with in the Cayce Readings, well there's a
                        lot that may be criticized in many ways. I don't know what you've
                        read from them. > > Starman>
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