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RE: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce

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  • Durward Starman
    *******Well, I m sorry but I have to tell you that some of your information is woefully inaccurate! You could verify this by doing a search online or reading a
    Message 1 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
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      *******Well, I'm sorry but I have to tell you that some of your information is woefully inaccurate! You could verify this by doing a search online or reading a few books about the Cayce Readings. I'd recommend reading a biography of the man first, such as "There Is A River" by Tom Sugrue, then look through whatever books of excerpts from his psychic readings interest you, like Edgar Cayce on Atlantis, Edgar Cayce on Jesus and His Church, etc. You'll find the information quite similar to Theosophy and anthroposophy, frequently identical.
       
         The objection of Rittlemeyer's was about people claiming to be an authority because of who they supposedly were in another life. This has nothing to do with telling what other peoples' past lives were--- which of course Dr. Steiner also did, so Rittlemeyer's criticiism about "claiming authority" on the basis of previous incarnations couldn't possibly include. He meant saying 'Well, I was so-and-so in a past life and so you should listen to me' (as one poor soul currently does who claims to have been Cayce himself, while producing no evidence of any abilities in this life).  Telling people they should study music because they have an unrealized musical gift due to having been a musician in ancient Greece, as the Cayce Readings might do--- well, that's a completely different thing than what Rittlemeyer was talking about, clearly. Dr. Steiner also would identify learning disabilities in children as coming from past lives and use this knowledge in treatment.
       
          Also, the Readings did not identify Cayce as having been Pythagoras. He did say that in a past life he was an Egyptian initiate unknown to history named Ra Ta, whose memory later became mixed in with the mythological Ra. But he didn't claim people should listen to him because he was that priest in the time of the building of the pyramids. In fact, Cayce didn't ask people to listen to him at all, as he was not a teacher like Steiner. He was a freakish case of an ordinary-seeming man who, because of his past lives, could go into a trance state and connect with the same sources as Blavatsky and Steiner. In his trances, he mainly was asked medical questions about people who were sick. Other stuff was secondary to him and he wasn't sure how much to trust it himself.
       
      -starman

      www.DrStarman.com




      To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
      From: carynlouise24@...
      Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:51:19 +0000
      Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce


      The Edgar Cayce's I have read are:

      The Life Story of Jesus
      The Origin and Destiny of Man
      Revelation
      Many Happy Returns

      My thoughts are:

      In Friedrich Rittelmeyer' s `RUDOLF STEINER ENTERS MY LIFE' Friedrich
      writes:

      `His (Rudolf Steiner) attitude in the Krishnamurti affair shows that
      he regarded it as the greatest occult sin to claim authority for
      anyone on the ground of previous incarnations. In the age of
      the "Consciousness Soul" everyone must appeal with his teaching
      simply and solely to men's own objective sense of truth, and convince
      them purely on the basis of reason'.

      Edgar Cayce in an unconscious state claimed authority for person's
      previous incarnations and this should be a reason for concern.

      For instance; say someone like Edgar Cayce had to say to me `you were
      Mickey Mouse in your previous incarnation' – if I was naïve enough to
      believe this (because I was seeking the fundamental question of
      life `who am I') I would spend the rest of my life prancing around
      thinking to myself `I am Mickey Mouse' and further begin to act, take
      on the role of, Mickey Mouse - only to find when I pass through the
      portals of death I was actually Donald Duck in a previous incarnation
      and thus wasted a whole life in misconception.

      The age old wisdom comes to mind `Know Thyself' through yourself
      being yourself.

      Another factor; Edgar Cayce has claimed himself to be the great
      ancient leader Ra and the great mathematician Pythagoras in previous
      lifetimes.

      As far as I know not even Rudolf Steiner would claim to ascertain who
      he was in previous lifetimes in such an open manner; and further the
      true understanding of reincarnation of Initiates is not truly
      understood by the uninitiated.

      At this point I would like to say; Stephen Hale is greatly respected
      and (in my view) his investigations into the Karmic relationships
      between people is well thought through, done in a very concise manner
      and most importantly in a conscious manner. These investigations, on
      people who have already passed through the portals, namely Rudolf
      Steiner himself, directly proves the above writing by Friedrich
      Rittelmeyer on Rudolf Steiner's view on previous incarnations are
      done with an objective sense of truth based on knowledge and reason
      and is a gift invaluable to anthroposophy.

      I have spent years pondering Edgar Cayce and it is not without undue
      considerations I put this forward.

      --- In steiner@yahoogroups .com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@. ..> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > To: steiner@...: Cheeseandsalsa@ ...: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 13:32:21 -
      0400Subject: Re: [steiner] Edgar Cayce
      >
      >
      >
      > Barbara Handclow who isn't an anthro said that Cayce is a member
      and his father of the masons. She wrote that they were of the dark
      occult brotherhood. ..I personally do not resonate with what he
      brought to us.
      > I do agree - a balance is always good in communications. Any
      thoughts ... I wonder what Rudolf Steiner would have to say on Edgar
      Cayce?
      >
      >
      > 1
      >
      > .
      > *******
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Well, in this particular case I can say flatly that the lady is
      mistaken. Neither Cayce nor his father were Masons, I know that from
      personal study and contact with his family and many people who
      actually knew him here in Virginia Beach. He was not a member of
      anything, and in fact didn't know about Theosophy or anything
      esoteric until he began answering questions about such matters in
      his "readings." He almost never remembered anything he said in trance
      so they had to have a stenographer take it all down, and he read what
      he'd said afterwards along with everybody else. He was a simple
      Christian while awake and never joined anything except the local
      Presbyterian Church here. His father was a difficult man whom Edgar
      didn't get along with very well, but he also was not a member of any
      brotherhood or anything and had nothing to do with Edgar Cayce's work
      most of his life.
      >
      > As to what you don't resonate with in the Cayce Readings, well
      there's a lot that may be criticized in many ways. I don't know what
      you've read from them.
      >
      > Starman
      > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
      > It's a talkathon – but it's not just talk.
      > http://www.imtalkat hon.com/? source=EML_ WLH_Talkathon_ JustTalk
      >




      Making the world a better place one message at a time. Check out the i’m Talkathon.
    • Mathew Morrell
      ... Steven Hale is a 3rd rate charlatan and moral retrograde. I spit on his name and anyone who mentions it in this forum.
      Message 2 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
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        Caryne Louise said:

        > At this point I would like to say; Stephen Hale is greatly respected
        > and (in my view) his investigations into the Karmic relationships
        > between people is well thought through...

        Steven Hale is a 3rd rate charlatan and moral retrograde. I spit on
        his name and anyone who mentions it in this forum.
      • Durward Starman
        *******Who is he? I ve never heard of him. -starmanwww.DrStarman.com To: steiner@yahoogroups.comFrom: tma4cbt@juno.comDate: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 20:37:24
        Message 3 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
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          *******Who is he? I've never heard of him.
           
          -starman

          www.DrStarman.com




          To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
          From: tma4cbt@...
          Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 20:37:24 +0000
          Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce


          Caryne Louise said:

          > At this point I would like to say; Stephen Hale is greatly respected
          > and (in my view) his investigations into the Karmic relationships
          > between people is well thought through...

          Steven Hale is a 3rd rate charlatan and moral retrograde. I spit on
          his name and anyone who mentions it in this forum.




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        • John Massengale
          ... I m not interested in spitting or being told what to say here. I will try signing myself off. If that doesn t work, please sign me off. thanks
          Message 4 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
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            On Jul 10, 2008, at 4:37 PM, Mathew Morrell wrote:

            I spit on 
            his name and anyone who mentions it in this forum. 

            I'm not interested in spitting or being told what to say here.

            I will try signing myself off. If that doesn't work, please sign me off.

            thanks
          • Mathew Morrell
            ... Steven Hale is that psycho pomp you removed from this forum a couple years ago, who joined this forum, it seems, for no other purpose than to clog it up,
            Message 5 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
            • 0 Attachment


              --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > *******Who is he? I've never heard of him.
              >

              Steven Hale is that psycho pomp you removed from this forum a couple years ago, who joined this forum, it seems, for no other purpose than to clog it up, undermine, and manipulate people like me with his overbearing, ego-centric personality.

              According to my sources, Steve Hale recently accused Starman of being in the mold of the Aryan Nation.  That's just one things he's accused Starman and myself of being.  There are many more lies and falsehoods that pour from this person's mouth.  Mr Hale has made a profession of creating devils and unleashing them through anthroposophical discussion forums.

              Mathew  

            • Durward Starman
              *******Thank you, Matthew. I d forgotten all about this rather unpleasant fellow. Just looked up his rantings when he was briefly a member of this list. No
              Message 6 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
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                *******Thank you, Matthew. I'd forgotten all about this rather unpleasant fellow. Just looked up his rantings when he was briefly a member of this list. No wonder you reacted so.
                 
                    I see no evidence of any singular insight into peoples' past lives, or anything esoteric or spiritual for that matter, in this person. He appears to be just another egotist who is out to twist anthroposophy into something that supports his own opinions, rather similar to the fellow I mentioned who says he's the reincarnation of Edgar Cayce. They're a dime a dozen online here.
                 
                   I would not place much faith in anything he had to say about Edgar Cayce, or Rudolf Steiner, for that matter. He might have something worthwhile to say, but I would say one would have to critically examine every statement such a person makes for falsehoods.
                 
                -starman

                www.DrStarman.com




                To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
                From: tma4cbt@...
                Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 21:35:05 +0000
                Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce



                --- In steiner@yahoogroups .com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@.. .> wrote:
                >
                >
                > *******Who is he? I've never heard of him.
                >

                Steven Hale is that psycho pomp you removed from this forum a couple years ago, who joined this forum, it seems, for no other purpose than to clog it up, undermine, and manipulate people like me with his overbearing, ego-centric personality.

                According to my sources, Steve Hale recently accused Starman of being in the mold of the Aryan Nation.  That's just one things he's accused Starman and myself of being.  There are many more lies and falsehoods that pour from this person's mouth.  Mr Hale has made a profession of creating devils and unleashing them through anthroposophical discussion forums.

                Mathew  




                Making the world a better place one message at a time. Check out the i'm Talkathon.
              • happypick2000
                ... I vaguely recall someone of that name although not the particulars. Unfortunately, this world seems to be full of unsavory types, and the best I can say in
                Message 7 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
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                  --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "Mathew Morrell" <tma4cbt@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > *******Who is he? I've never heard of him.
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Steven Hale is that psycho pomp you removed from this forum a couple
                  > years ago, who joined this forum, it seems, for no other purpose than to
                  > clog it up, undermine, and manipulate people like me with his
                  > overbearing, ego-centric personality.
                  >
                  > According to my sources, Steve Hale recently accused Starman of being in
                  > the mold of the Aryan Nation. That's just one things he's
                  > accused Starman and myself of being. There are many more lies and
                  > falsehoods that pour from this person's mouth. Mr Hale has made a
                  > profession of creating devils and unleashing them through
                  > anthroposophical discussion forums.
                  >
                  > Mathew
                  >
                  I vaguely recall someone of that name although not the particulars.
                  Unfortunately, this world seems to be full of unsavory types, and the
                  best I can say in such cases is to the effect that they will be held
                  responsible for any and all actions of theirs, and in a well deserved
                  way. I shudder to ponder such fates and can only try to overlook
                  harmful events and people while learning from them in the way Steiner
                  mentions coming across the dead dog with such beautiful teeth, but I
                  fail far too often.

                  Blessings,

                  Sheila
                • Durward Starman
                  *******Sorry for Matthew s temper. But in any gathering of people an angry outburst will happen now and then. It s not a reason for leaving a group. I wonder,
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
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                    *******Sorry for Matthew's temper. But in any gathering of people an angry outburst will happen now and then. It's not a reason for leaving a group.
                     
                    I wonder, do you belong to an anthroposophical study group? Would you do the same there?

                    -starman

                    www.DrStarman.com




                    To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
                    From: john@...
                    Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 17:34:15 -0400
                    Subject: Re: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce



                    On Jul 10, 2008, at 4:37 PM, Mathew Morrell wrote:

                    I spit on 
                    his name and anyone who mentions it in this forum. 

                    I'm not interested in spitting or being told what to say here.

                    I will try signing myself off. If that doesn't work, please sign me off.

                    thanks




                    Making the world a better place one message at a time. Check out the i'm Talkathon.
                  • carynlouise24
                    Interesting reactions – Well it is interesting Mars is the reincarnation of the Old Moon. Explains the `trance state. One thing in life which I cannot
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jul 11, 2008
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                      Interesting reactions – Well it is interesting Mars is the
                      reincarnation of the Old Moon. Explains the `trance' state.

                      One thing in life which I cannot stand is when people say `blessings'
                      or `God bless you' – like they have this authority to tell God who to
                      bless who not to bless!

                      Well back to Billy … then



                      --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > *******Well, I'm sorry but I have to tell you that some of your
                      information is woefully inaccurate! You could verify this by doing a
                      search online or reading a few books about the Cayce Readings. I'd
                      recommend reading a biography of the man first, such as "There Is A
                      River" by Tom Sugrue, then look through whatever books of excerpts
                      from his psychic readings interest you, like Edgar Cayce on Atlantis,
                      Edgar Cayce on Jesus and His Church, etc. You'll find the information
                      quite similar to Theosophy and anthroposophy, frequently identical.
                      >
                      > The objection of Rittlemeyer's was about people claiming to be
                      an authority because of who they supposedly were in another life.
                      This has nothing to do with telling what other peoples' past lives
                      were--- which of course Dr. Steiner also did, so Rittlemeyer's
                      criticiism about "claiming authority" on the basis of previous
                      incarnations couldn't possibly include. He meant saying 'Well, I was
                      so-and-so in a past life and so you should listen to me' (as one poor
                      soul currently does who claims to have been Cayce himself, while
                      producing no evidence of any abilities in this life). Telling people
                      they should study music because they have an unrealized musical gift
                      due to having been a musician in ancient Greece, as the Cayce
                      Readings might do--- well, that's a completely different thing than
                      what Rittlemeyer was talking about, clearly. Dr. Steiner also would
                      identify learning disabilities in children as coming from past lives
                      and use this knowledge in treatment.
                      >
                      > Also, the Readings did not identify Cayce as having been
                      Pythagoras. He did say that in a past life he was an Egyptian
                      initiate unknown to history named Ra Ta, whose memory later became
                      mixed in with the mythological Ra. But he didn't claim people should
                      listen to him because he was that priest in the time of the building
                      of the pyramids. In fact, Cayce didn't ask people to listen to him at
                      all, as he was not a teacher like Steiner. He was a freakish case of
                      an ordinary-seeming man who, because of his past lives, could go into
                      a trance state and connect with the same sources as Blavatsky and
                      Steiner. In his trances, he mainly was asked medical questions about
                      people who were sick. Other stuff was secondary to him and he wasn't
                      sure how much to trust it himself.
                      >
                      > -starmanwww.DrStarman.com
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > To: steiner@...: carynlouise24@...: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:51:19
                      +0000Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > The Edgar Cayce's I have read are:The Life Story of JesusThe Origin
                      and Destiny of ManRevelationMany Happy Returns My thoughts are:In
                      Friedrich Rittelmeyer's `RUDOLF STEINER ENTERS MY LIFE' Friedrich
                      writes:`His (Rudolf Steiner) attitude in the Krishnamurti affair
                      shows that he regarded it as the greatest occult sin to claim
                      authority for anyone on the ground of previous incarnations. In the
                      age of the "Consciousness Soul" everyone must appeal with his
                      teaching simply and solely to men's own objective sense of truth, and
                      convince them purely on the basis of reason'.Edgar Cayce in an
                      unconscious state claimed authority for person's previous
                      incarnations and this should be a reason for concern. For instance;
                      say someone like Edgar Cayce had to say to me `you were Mickey Mouse
                      in your previous incarnation' – if I was naïve enough to believe this
                      (because I was seeking the fundamental question of life `who am I') I
                      would spend the rest of my life prancing around thinking to myself `I
                      am Mickey Mouse' and further begin to act, take on the role of,
                      Mickey Mouse - only to find when I pass through the portals of death
                      I was actually Donald Duck in a previous incarnation and thus wasted
                      a whole life in misconception.The age old wisdom comes to mind `Know
                      Thyself' through yourself being yourself.Another factor; Edgar Cayce
                      has claimed himself to be the great ancient leader Ra and the great
                      mathematician Pythagoras in previous lifetimes.As far as I know not
                      even Rudolf Steiner would claim to ascertain who he was in previous
                      lifetimes in such an open manner; and further the true understanding
                      of reincarnation of Initiates is not truly understood by the
                      uninitiated.At this point I would like to say; Stephen Hale is
                      greatly respected and (in my view) his investigations into the Karmic
                      relationships between people is well thought through, done in a very
                      concise manner and most importantly in a conscious manner. These
                      investigations, on people who have already passed through the
                      portals, namely Rudolf Steiner himself, directly proves the above
                      writing by Friedrich Rittelmeyer on Rudolf Steiner's view on previous
                      incarnations are done with an objective sense of truth based on
                      knowledge and reason and is a gift invaluable to anthroposophy.I have
                      spent years pondering Edgar Cayce and it is not without undue
                      considerations I put this forward.--- In steiner@yahoogroups.com,
                      Durward Starman <DrStarman@> wrote:>> > > > To: steiner@:
                      Cheeseandsalsa@: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 13:32:21 -0400Subject: Re: [steiner]
                      Edgar Cayce> > > > Barbara Handclow who isn't an anthro said that
                      Cayce is a member and his father of the masons. She wrote that they
                      were of the dark occult brotherhood...I personally do not resonate
                      with what he brought to us. > I do agree - a balance is always good
                      in communications.Any thoughts ... I wonder what Rudolf Steiner would
                      have to say on Edgar Cayce?> > > 1> > .> *******> > > > > > Well, in
                      this particular case I can say flatly that the lady is mistaken.
                      Neither Cayce nor his father were Masons, I know that from personal
                      study and contact with his family and many people who actually knew
                      him here in Virginia Beach. He was not a member of anything, and in
                      fact didn't know about Theosophy or anything esoteric until he began
                      answering questions about such matters in his "readings." He almost
                      never remembered anything he said in trance so they had to have a
                      stenographer take it all down, and he read what he'd said afterwards
                      along with everybody else. He was a simple Christian while awake and
                      never joined anything except the local Presbyterian Church here. His
                      father was a difficult man whom Edgar didn't get along with very
                      well, but he also was not a member of any brotherhood or anything and
                      had nothing to do with Edgar Cayce's work most of his life. > > As to
                      what you don't resonate with in the Cayce Readings, well there's a
                      lot that may be criticized in many ways. I don't know what you've
                      read from them. > > Starman>
                      __________________________________________________________> It's a
                      talkathon – but it's not just talk.> http://www.imtalkathon.com/?
                      source=EML_WLH_Talkathon_JustTalk>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > _________________________________________________________________
                      > Making the world a better place one message at a time.
                      > http://www.imtalkathon.com/?source=EML_WLH_Talkathon_BetterPlace
                      >
                    • Durward Starman
                      ******* Why do you connect this to the planet Mars? I connect the trance state to Saturn, as it s a reversion to the state of consciousness of Ancient Saturn.
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jul 11, 2008
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                        ******* Why do you connect this to the planet Mars? I connect the trance state to Saturn, as it's a reversion to the state of consciousness of Ancient Saturn.

                        -starman

                        www.DrStarman.com




                        To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
                        From: carynlouise24@...
                        Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 08:19:09 +0000
                        Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce


                        Interesting reactions – Well it is interesting Mars is the
                        reincarnation of the Old Moon. Explains the `trance' state.

                        One thing in life which I cannot stand is when people say `blessings'
                        or `God bless you' – like they have this authority to tell God who to
                        bless who not to bless!

                        Well back to Billy … then

                        --- In steiner@yahoogroups .com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@. ..> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > *******Well, I'm sorry but I have to tell you that some of your
                        information is woefully inaccurate! You could verify this by doing a
                        search online or reading a few books about the Cayce Readings. I'd
                        recommend reading a biography of the man first, such as "There Is A
                        River" by Tom Sugrue, then look through whatever books of excerpts
                        from his psychic readings interest you, like Edgar Cayce on Atlantis,
                        Edgar Cayce on Jesus and His Church, etc. You'll find the information
                        quite similar to Theosophy and anthroposophy, frequently identical.
                        >
                        > The objection of Rittlemeyer' s was about people claiming to be
                        an authority because of who they supposedly were in another life.
                        This has nothing to do with telling what other peoples' past lives
                        were--- which of course Dr. Steiner also did, so Rittlemeyer' s
                        criticiism about "claiming authority" on the basis of previous
                        incarnations couldn't possibly include. He meant saying 'Well, I was
                        so-and-so in a past life and so you should listen to me' (as one poor
                        soul currently does who claims to have been Cayce himself, while
                        producing no evidence of any abilities in this life). Telling people
                        they should study music because they have an unrealized musical gift
                        due to having been a musician in ancient Greece, as the Cayce
                        Readings might do--- well, that's a completely different thing than
                        what Rittlemeyer was talking about, clearly. Dr. Steiner also would
                        identify learning disabilities in children as coming from past lives
                        and use this knowledge in treatment.
                        >
                        > Also, the Readings did not identify Cayce as having been
                        Pythagoras. He did say that in a past life he was an Egyptian
                        initiate unknown to history named Ra Ta, whose memory later became
                        mixed in with the mythological Ra. But he didn't claim people should
                        listen to him because he was that priest in the time of the building
                        of the pyramids. In fact, Cayce didn't ask people to listen to him at
                        all, as he was not a teacher like Steiner. He was a freakish case of
                        an ordinary-seeming man who, because of his past lives, could go into
                        a trance state and connect with the same sources as Blavatsky and
                        Steiner. In his trances, he mainly was asked medical questions about
                        people who were sick. Other stuff was secondary to him and he wasn't
                        sure how much to trust it himself.
                        >
                        > -starmanwww. DrStarman. com
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > To: steiner@...: carynlouise24@ ...: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:51:19
                        +0000Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > The Edgar Cayce's I have read are:The Life Story of JesusThe Origin
                        and Destiny of ManRevelationMany Happy Returns My thoughts are:In
                        Friedrich Rittelmeyer' s `RUDOLF STEINER ENTERS MY LIFE' Friedrich
                        writes:`His (Rudolf Steiner) attitude in the Krishnamurti affair
                        shows that he regarded it as the greatest occult sin to claim
                        authority for anyone on the ground of previous incarnations. In the
                        age of the "Consciousness Soul" everyone must appeal with his
                        teaching simply and solely to men's own objective sense of truth, and
                        convince them purely on the basis of reason'.Edgar Cayce in an
                        unconscious state claimed authority for person's previous
                        incarnations and this should be a reason for concern. For instance;
                        say someone like Edgar Cayce had to say to me `you were Mickey Mouse
                        in your previous incarnation' – if I was naïve enough to believe this
                        (because I was seeking the fundamental question of life `who am I') I
                        would spend the rest of my life prancing around thinking to myself `I
                        am Mickey Mouse' and further begin to act, take on the role of,
                        Mickey Mouse - only to find when I pass through the portals of death
                        I was actually Donald Duck in a previous incarnation and thus wasted
                        a whole life in misconception. The age old wisdom comes to mind `Know
                        Thyself' through yourself being yourself.Another factor; Edgar Cayce
                        has claimed himself to be the great ancient leader Ra and the great
                        mathematician Pythagoras in previous lifetimes.As far as I know not
                        even Rudolf Steiner would claim to ascertain who he was in previous
                        lifetimes in such an open manner; and further the true understanding
                        of reincarnation of Initiates is not truly understood by the
                        uninitiated. At this point I would like to say; Stephen Hale is
                        greatly respected and (in my view) his investigations into the Karmic
                        relationships between people is well thought through, done in a very
                        concise manner and most importantly in a conscious manner. These
                        investigations, on people who have already passed through the
                        portals, namely Rudolf Steiner himself, directly proves the above
                        writing by Friedrich Rittelmeyer on Rudolf Steiner's view on previous
                        incarnations are done with an objective sense of truth based on
                        knowledge and reason and is a gift invaluable to anthroposophy. I have
                        spent years pondering Edgar Cayce and it is not without undue
                        considerations I put this forward.--- In steiner@yahoogroups .com,
                        Durward Starman <DrStarman@> wrote:>> > > > To: steiner@:
                        Cheeseandsalsa@ : Mon, 7 Jul 2008 13:32:21 -0400Subject: Re: [steiner]
                        Edgar Cayce> > > > Barbara Handclow who isn't an anthro said that
                        Cayce is a member and his father of the masons. She wrote that they
                        were of the dark occult brotherhood. ..I personally do not resonate
                        with what he brought to us. > I do agree - a balance is always good
                        in communications. Any thoughts ... I wonder what Rudolf Steiner would
                        have to say on Edgar Cayce?> > > 1> > .> *******> > > > > > Well, in
                        this particular case I can say flatly that the lady is mistaken.
                        Neither Cayce nor his father were Masons, I know that from personal
                        study and contact with his family and many people who actually knew
                        him here in Virginia Beach. He was not a member of anything, and in
                        fact didn't know about Theosophy or anything esoteric until he began
                        answering questions about such matters in his "readings." He almost
                        never remembered anything he said in trance so they had to have a
                        stenographer take it all down, and he read what he'd said afterwards
                        along with everybody else. He was a simple Christian while awake and
                        never joined anything except the local Presbyterian Church here. His
                        father was a difficult man whom Edgar didn't get along with very
                        well, but he also was not a member of any brotherhood or anything and
                        had nothing to do with Edgar Cayce's work most of his life. > > As to
                        what you don't resonate with in the Cayce Readings, well there's a
                        lot that may be criticized in many ways. I don't know what you've
                        read from them. > > Starman>
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                      • carynlouise24
                        I trace it to the Old Moon stage of clairvoyance for specific corresponding reasons. Arhimanic and his sidekick the untamed Luciferic. We understand during
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jul 14, 2008
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                          I trace it to the Old Moon stage of clairvoyance for specific
                          corresponding reasons. Arhimanic and his sidekick the untamed
                          Luciferic. We understand during the Old Moon period the astral body
                          was in development and the mineral was not yet included in the human
                          body, this was a predominately Luciferic stage.

                          In Rudolf Steiner's `Polarities in the Evolution of Mankind' eleven
                          lectures given to members of the Anthroposophical Society in
                          Stuttgart 5 March to 22 November 1920 pg 108 – we read

                          `The Jesuit literature on the material world is much more brilliantly
                          written than the works of many others writers on the subject today.
                          Father Erich Wasmann's work on ants, for example, is really good, you
                          will gain more from reading it than from the pedantic, uninspired
                          writings of other scientists. Many more examples could be given.

                          The (work of the) Jesuits would be excellent if they confined
                          themselves to the material world; it is a deliberate aim (of the
                          Jesuits) to use their description of the material world to encourage
                          people to associate knowledge with the materialistic aspect of the
                          physical world only.

                          The intention is to pretend to human minds that the methods used to
                          gain knowledge cannot be used to investigate the supersensible
                          world. In ancient times Lucifer-dominated individuals suggested that
                          human beings would gain mastery of the world if they made use of
                          ancient divine knowledge, yet evolution had already gone beyond this
                          point.

                          Now we have late followers of those people from post-primeval times
                          pretending to the world that it is not possible to extend knowledge
                          to the supersensible sphere and that knowledge cannot go beyond the
                          sense-perceptible world. In those early times the intention had been
                          to drug people with supersensible knowledge.

                          Now human beings of the same ilk want to use all possible means to
                          push humanity into the physical world; they want human beings stuck
                          in that world and grasp the supersensible world only with the
                          nebulous impulse of faith.

                          In post-primeval times the aim had been to inundate humankind with an
                          excess of supersensible knowledge. Today those late followers want
                          human beings to have less than the right amount of knowledge in this
                          sphere. Past intent was to provide supersensible knowledge that was
                          no longer appropriate. Present intent is to let people have only
                          sense-bound knowledge, making the supersensible world an area where
                          every individual may hold whatever views he or she likes.

                          What would be the outcome if the group of people to whom we are
                          referring were to achieve some kind of victory? These are the people
                          who deliberately make a sharp distinction between knowledge and
                          belief. There are of course large numbers of easily led people who
                          come across the diatribe on the `clear distinction between faith and
                          knowledge' and repeat it; they merely repeat it.

                          What is all this about? The aim is to do the opposite of what those
                          individual in post-primeval times did in their way. In the old days
                          the intention was to prevent humanity from descending completely and
                          taking up its mission on earth. Today the intention is to keep
                          people tied to that mission on earth to prevent their further
                          development, for which the earth would provide the basis. The very
                          people who are now supporting materialism call
                          themselves `spiritualists', or priests of some faith or other,
                          representatives of the supersensible world.

                          In those ancient times the people offering a life in the spirit that
                          was no longer justifiable called themselves materialists. They did
                          so from the point of view which I have characterized. Today a large
                          number of people who really wish to keep humanity bound to the
                          material world call themselves representatives of the spiritual
                          world.'

                          Page 50

                          Think of all the efforts we go to in spiritual science working
                          towards anthroposophy to form sufficiently clear ideas; for
                          instances, as to how far the things we become aware of in human
                          minds, in the form of dreams, may or may not be reflecting the
                          truth. As human beings we cannot immediately distinguish truth from
                          falsehood when something appears in the course of a dream. The same
                          state of mind arises for a congregation when they are told lies by
                          people who know those lies will be believed. The soul is brought to
                          a state, a mood, by those lies where it becomes the willing tool of
                          those desiring power. It is easiest to get people into your power by
                          planting illusions in their unsuspecting minds'.




                          --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > ******* Why do you connect this to the planet Mars? I connect the
                          trance state to Saturn, as it's a reversion to the state of
                          consciousness of Ancient Saturn.
                          > -starman
                          > www.DrStarman.com
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > To: steiner@...: carynlouise24@...: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 08:19:09
                          +0000Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Interesting reactions – Well it is interesting Mars is the
                          reincarnation of the Old Moon. Explains the `trance' state.One thing
                          in life which I cannot stand is when people say `blessings' or `God
                          bless you' – like they have this authority to tell God who to bless
                          who not to bless!Well back to Billy … then --- In
                          steiner@yahoogroups.com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@> wrote:>> >
                          *******Well, I'm sorry but I have to tell you that some of your
                          information is woefully inaccurate! You could verify this by doing a
                          search online or reading a few books about the Cayce Readings. I'd
                          recommend reading a biography of the man first, such as "There Is A
                          River" by Tom Sugrue, then look through whatever books of excerpts
                          from his psychic readings interest you, like Edgar Cayce on Atlantis,
                          Edgar Cayce on Jesus and His Church, etc. You'll find the information
                          quite similar to Theosophy and anthroposophy, frequently identical.>
                          > The objection of Rittlemeyer's was about people claiming to be an
                          authority because of who they supposedly were in another life. This
                          has nothing to do with telling what other peoples' past lives were---
                          which of course Dr. Steiner also did, so Rittlemeyer's criticiism
                          about "claiming authority" on the basis of previous incarnations
                          couldn't possibly include. He meant saying 'Well, I was so-and-so in
                          a past life and so you should listen to me' (as one poor soul
                          currently does who claims to have been Cayce himself, while producing
                          no evidence of any abilities in this life). Telling people they
                          should study music because they have an unrealized musical gift due
                          to having been a musician in ancient Greece, as the Cayce Readings
                          might do--- well, that's a completely different thing than what
                          Rittlemeyer was talking about, clearly. Dr. Steiner also would
                          identify learning disabilities in children as coming from past lives
                          and use this knowledge in treatment.> > Also, the Readings did not
                          identify Cayce as having been Pythagoras. He did say that in a past
                          life he was an Egyptian initiate unknown to history named Ra Ta,
                          whose memory later became mixed in with the mythological Ra. But he
                          didn't claim people should listen to him because he was that priest
                          in the time of the building of the pyramids. In fact, Cayce didn't
                          ask people to listen to him at all, as he was not a teacher like
                          Steiner. He was a freakish case of an ordinary-seeming man who,
                          because of his past lives, could go into a trance state and connect
                          with the same sources as Blavatsky and Steiner. In his trances, he
                          mainly was asked medical questions about people who were sick. Other
                          stuff was secondary to him and he wasn't sure how much to trust it
                          himself.> > -starmanwww.DrStarman.com> > > > To: steiner@:
                          carynlouise24@: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:51:19 +0000Subject: [steiner] Re:
                          Edgar Cayce> > > > > The Edgar Cayce's I have read are:The Life Story
                          of JesusThe Origin and Destiny of ManRevelationMany Happy Returns My
                          thoughts are:In Friedrich Rittelmeyer's `RUDOLF STEINER ENTERS MY
                          LIFE' Friedrich writes:`His (Rudolf Steiner) attitude in the
                          Krishnamurti affair shows that he regarded it as the greatest occult
                          sin to claim authority for anyone on the ground of previous
                          incarnations. In the age of the "Consciousness Soul" everyone must
                          appeal with his teaching simply and solely to men's own objective
                          sense of truth, and convince them purely on the basis of
                          reason'.Edgar Cayce in an unconscious state claimed authority for
                          person's previous incarnations and this should be a reason for
                          concern. For instance; say someone like Edgar Cayce had to say to me
                          `you were Mickey Mouse in your previous incarnation' – if I was naïve
                          enough to believe this (because I was seeking the fundamental
                          question of life `who am I') I would spend the rest of my life
                          prancing around thinking to myself `I am Mickey Mouse' and further
                          begin to act, take on the role of, Mickey Mouse - only to find when I
                          pass through the portals of death I was actually Donald Duck in a
                          previous incarnation and thus wasted a whole life in
                          misconception.The age old wisdom comes to mind `Know Thyself' through
                          yourself being yourself.Another factor; Edgar Cayce has claimed
                          himself to be the great ancient leader Ra and the great mathematician
                          Pythagoras in previous lifetimes.As far as I know not even Rudolf
                          Steiner would claim to ascertain who he was in previous lifetimes in
                          such an open manner; and further the true understanding of
                          reincarnation of Initiates is not truly understood by the
                          uninitiated.At this point I would like to say; Stephen Hale is
                          greatly respected and (in my view) his investigations into the Karmic
                          relationships between people is well thought through, done in a very
                          concise manner and most importantly in a conscious manner. These
                          investigations, on people who have already passed through the
                          portals, namely Rudolf Steiner himself, directly proves the above
                          writing by Friedrich Rittelmeyer on Rudolf Steiner's view on previous
                          incarnations are done with an objective sense of truth based on
                          knowledge and reason and is a gift invaluable to anthroposophy.I have
                          spent years pondering Edgar Cayce and it is not without undue
                          considerations I put this forward.--- In steiner@yahoogroups.com,
                          Durward Starman <DrStarman@> wrote:>> > > > To: steiner@:
                          Cheeseandsalsa@: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 13:32:21 -0400Subject: Re: [steiner]
                          Edgar Cayce> > > > Barbara Handclow who isn't an anthro said that
                          Cayce is a member and his father of the masons. She wrote that they
                          were of the dark occult brotherhood...I personally do not resonate
                          with what he brought to us. > I do agree - a balance is always good
                          in communications.Any thoughts ... I wonder what Rudolf Steiner would
                          have to say on Edgar Cayce?> > > 1> > .> *******> > > > > > Well, in
                          this particular case I can say flatly that the lady is mistaken.
                          Neither Cayce nor his father were Masons, I know that from personal
                          study and contact with his family and many people who actually knew
                          him here in Virginia Beach. He was not a member of anything, and in
                          fact didn't know about Theosophy or anything esoteric until he began
                          answering questions about such matters in his "readings." He almost
                          never remembered anything he said in trance so they had to have a
                          stenographer take it all down, and he read what he'd said afterwards
                          along with everybody else. He was a simple Christian while awake and
                          never joined anything except the local Presbyterian Church here. His
                          father was a difficult man whom Edgar didn't get along with very
                          well, but he also was not a member of any brotherhood or anything and
                          had nothing to do with Edgar Cayce's work most of his life. > > As to
                          what you don't resonate with in the Cayce Readings, well there's a
                          lot that may be criticized in many ways. I don't know what you've
                          read from them. > > Starman>
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