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Re: Edgar Cayce

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  • carynlouise24
    The Edgar Cayce s I have read are: The Life Story of Jesus The Origin and Destiny of Man Revelation Many Happy Returns My thoughts are: In Friedrich
    Message 1 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
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      The Edgar Cayce's I have read are:

      The Life Story of Jesus
      The Origin and Destiny of Man
      Revelation
      Many Happy Returns

      My thoughts are:

      In Friedrich Rittelmeyer's `RUDOLF STEINER ENTERS MY LIFE' Friedrich
      writes:

      `His (Rudolf Steiner) attitude in the Krishnamurti affair shows that
      he regarded it as the greatest occult sin to claim authority for
      anyone on the ground of previous incarnations. In the age of
      the "Consciousness Soul" everyone must appeal with his teaching
      simply and solely to men's own objective sense of truth, and convince
      them purely on the basis of reason'.

      Edgar Cayce in an unconscious state claimed authority for person's
      previous incarnations and this should be a reason for concern.

      For instance; say someone like Edgar Cayce had to say to me `you were
      Mickey Mouse in your previous incarnation' – if I was naïve enough to
      believe this (because I was seeking the fundamental question of
      life `who am I') I would spend the rest of my life prancing around
      thinking to myself `I am Mickey Mouse' and further begin to act, take
      on the role of, Mickey Mouse - only to find when I pass through the
      portals of death I was actually Donald Duck in a previous incarnation
      and thus wasted a whole life in misconception.

      The age old wisdom comes to mind `Know Thyself' through yourself
      being yourself.

      Another factor; Edgar Cayce has claimed himself to be the great
      ancient leader Ra and the great mathematician Pythagoras in previous
      lifetimes.

      As far as I know not even Rudolf Steiner would claim to ascertain who
      he was in previous lifetimes in such an open manner; and further the
      true understanding of reincarnation of Initiates is not truly
      understood by the uninitiated.

      At this point I would like to say; Stephen Hale is greatly respected
      and (in my view) his investigations into the Karmic relationships
      between people is well thought through, done in a very concise manner
      and most importantly in a conscious manner. These investigations, on
      people who have already passed through the portals, namely Rudolf
      Steiner himself, directly proves the above writing by Friedrich
      Rittelmeyer on Rudolf Steiner's view on previous incarnations are
      done with an objective sense of truth based on knowledge and reason
      and is a gift invaluable to anthroposophy.

      I have spent years pondering Edgar Cayce and it is not without undue
      considerations I put this forward.


      --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > To: steiner@...: Cheeseandsalsa@...: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 13:32:21 -
      0400Subject: Re: [steiner] Edgar Cayce
      >
      >
      >
      > Barbara Handclow who isn't an anthro said that Cayce is a member
      and his father of the masons. She wrote that they were of the dark
      occult brotherhood...I personally do not resonate with what he
      brought to us.
      > I do agree - a balance is always good in communications.Any
      thoughts ... I wonder what Rudolf Steiner would have to say on Edgar
      Cayce?
      >
      >
      > 1
      >
      > .
      > *******
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Well, in this particular case I can say flatly that the lady is
      mistaken. Neither Cayce nor his father were Masons, I know that from
      personal study and contact with his family and many people who
      actually knew him here in Virginia Beach. He was not a member of
      anything, and in fact didn't know about Theosophy or anything
      esoteric until he began answering questions about such matters in
      his "readings." He almost never remembered anything he said in trance
      so they had to have a stenographer take it all down, and he read what
      he'd said afterwards along with everybody else. He was a simple
      Christian while awake and never joined anything except the local
      Presbyterian Church here. His father was a difficult man whom Edgar
      didn't get along with very well, but he also was not a member of any
      brotherhood or anything and had nothing to do with Edgar Cayce's work
      most of his life.
      >
      > As to what you don't resonate with in the Cayce Readings, well
      there's a lot that may be criticized in many ways. I don't know what
      you've read from them.
      >
      > Starman
      > _________________________________________________________________
      > It's a talkathon – but it's not just talk.
      > http://www.imtalkathon.com/?source=EML_WLH_Talkathon_JustTalk
      >
    • Cheeseandsalsa@aol.com
      Thank you for that, it was very interesting. I mentioned what Handclow said about Cayce to an friend today, who has been a long time anthroposophist, and he
      Message 2 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
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        Thank you for that, it was very interesting. I mentioned what Handclow said about Cayce to an friend today, who has been a long time anthroposophist, and he doesn't believe Cayce was a member of the dark occult. For what its worth. Thank you for that post it was a good one. Chantel




        Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com!
      • Durward Starman
        *******Well, I m sorry but I have to tell you that some of your information is woefully inaccurate! You could verify this by doing a search online or reading a
        Message 3 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
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          *******Well, I'm sorry but I have to tell you that some of your information is woefully inaccurate! You could verify this by doing a search online or reading a few books about the Cayce Readings. I'd recommend reading a biography of the man first, such as "There Is A River" by Tom Sugrue, then look through whatever books of excerpts from his psychic readings interest you, like Edgar Cayce on Atlantis, Edgar Cayce on Jesus and His Church, etc. You'll find the information quite similar to Theosophy and anthroposophy, frequently identical.
           
             The objection of Rittlemeyer's was about people claiming to be an authority because of who they supposedly were in another life. This has nothing to do with telling what other peoples' past lives were--- which of course Dr. Steiner also did, so Rittlemeyer's criticiism about "claiming authority" on the basis of previous incarnations couldn't possibly include. He meant saying 'Well, I was so-and-so in a past life and so you should listen to me' (as one poor soul currently does who claims to have been Cayce himself, while producing no evidence of any abilities in this life).  Telling people they should study music because they have an unrealized musical gift due to having been a musician in ancient Greece, as the Cayce Readings might do--- well, that's a completely different thing than what Rittlemeyer was talking about, clearly. Dr. Steiner also would identify learning disabilities in children as coming from past lives and use this knowledge in treatment.
           
              Also, the Readings did not identify Cayce as having been Pythagoras. He did say that in a past life he was an Egyptian initiate unknown to history named Ra Ta, whose memory later became mixed in with the mythological Ra. But he didn't claim people should listen to him because he was that priest in the time of the building of the pyramids. In fact, Cayce didn't ask people to listen to him at all, as he was not a teacher like Steiner. He was a freakish case of an ordinary-seeming man who, because of his past lives, could go into a trance state and connect with the same sources as Blavatsky and Steiner. In his trances, he mainly was asked medical questions about people who were sick. Other stuff was secondary to him and he wasn't sure how much to trust it himself.
           
          -starman

          www.DrStarman.com




          To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
          From: carynlouise24@...
          Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:51:19 +0000
          Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce


          The Edgar Cayce's I have read are:

          The Life Story of Jesus
          The Origin and Destiny of Man
          Revelation
          Many Happy Returns

          My thoughts are:

          In Friedrich Rittelmeyer' s `RUDOLF STEINER ENTERS MY LIFE' Friedrich
          writes:

          `His (Rudolf Steiner) attitude in the Krishnamurti affair shows that
          he regarded it as the greatest occult sin to claim authority for
          anyone on the ground of previous incarnations. In the age of
          the "Consciousness Soul" everyone must appeal with his teaching
          simply and solely to men's own objective sense of truth, and convince
          them purely on the basis of reason'.

          Edgar Cayce in an unconscious state claimed authority for person's
          previous incarnations and this should be a reason for concern.

          For instance; say someone like Edgar Cayce had to say to me `you were
          Mickey Mouse in your previous incarnation' – if I was naïve enough to
          believe this (because I was seeking the fundamental question of
          life `who am I') I would spend the rest of my life prancing around
          thinking to myself `I am Mickey Mouse' and further begin to act, take
          on the role of, Mickey Mouse - only to find when I pass through the
          portals of death I was actually Donald Duck in a previous incarnation
          and thus wasted a whole life in misconception.

          The age old wisdom comes to mind `Know Thyself' through yourself
          being yourself.

          Another factor; Edgar Cayce has claimed himself to be the great
          ancient leader Ra and the great mathematician Pythagoras in previous
          lifetimes.

          As far as I know not even Rudolf Steiner would claim to ascertain who
          he was in previous lifetimes in such an open manner; and further the
          true understanding of reincarnation of Initiates is not truly
          understood by the uninitiated.

          At this point I would like to say; Stephen Hale is greatly respected
          and (in my view) his investigations into the Karmic relationships
          between people is well thought through, done in a very concise manner
          and most importantly in a conscious manner. These investigations, on
          people who have already passed through the portals, namely Rudolf
          Steiner himself, directly proves the above writing by Friedrich
          Rittelmeyer on Rudolf Steiner's view on previous incarnations are
          done with an objective sense of truth based on knowledge and reason
          and is a gift invaluable to anthroposophy.

          I have spent years pondering Edgar Cayce and it is not without undue
          considerations I put this forward.

          --- In steiner@yahoogroups .com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@. ..> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > To: steiner@...: Cheeseandsalsa@ ...: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 13:32:21 -
          0400Subject: Re: [steiner] Edgar Cayce
          >
          >
          >
          > Barbara Handclow who isn't an anthro said that Cayce is a member
          and his father of the masons. She wrote that they were of the dark
          occult brotherhood. ..I personally do not resonate with what he
          brought to us.
          > I do agree - a balance is always good in communications. Any
          thoughts ... I wonder what Rudolf Steiner would have to say on Edgar
          Cayce?
          >
          >
          > 1
          >
          > .
          > *******
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Well, in this particular case I can say flatly that the lady is
          mistaken. Neither Cayce nor his father were Masons, I know that from
          personal study and contact with his family and many people who
          actually knew him here in Virginia Beach. He was not a member of
          anything, and in fact didn't know about Theosophy or anything
          esoteric until he began answering questions about such matters in
          his "readings." He almost never remembered anything he said in trance
          so they had to have a stenographer take it all down, and he read what
          he'd said afterwards along with everybody else. He was a simple
          Christian while awake and never joined anything except the local
          Presbyterian Church here. His father was a difficult man whom Edgar
          didn't get along with very well, but he also was not a member of any
          brotherhood or anything and had nothing to do with Edgar Cayce's work
          most of his life.
          >
          > As to what you don't resonate with in the Cayce Readings, well
          there's a lot that may be criticized in many ways. I don't know what
          you've read from them.
          >
          > Starman
          > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
          > It's a talkathon – but it's not just talk.
          > http://www.imtalkat hon.com/? source=EML_ WLH_Talkathon_ JustTalk
          >




          Making the world a better place one message at a time. Check out the i’m Talkathon.
        • Mathew Morrell
          ... Steven Hale is a 3rd rate charlatan and moral retrograde. I spit on his name and anyone who mentions it in this forum.
          Message 4 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
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            Caryne Louise said:

            > At this point I would like to say; Stephen Hale is greatly respected
            > and (in my view) his investigations into the Karmic relationships
            > between people is well thought through...

            Steven Hale is a 3rd rate charlatan and moral retrograde. I spit on
            his name and anyone who mentions it in this forum.
          • Durward Starman
            *******Who is he? I ve never heard of him. -starmanwww.DrStarman.com To: steiner@yahoogroups.comFrom: tma4cbt@juno.comDate: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 20:37:24
            Message 5 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
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              *******Who is he? I've never heard of him.
               
              -starman

              www.DrStarman.com




              To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
              From: tma4cbt@...
              Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 20:37:24 +0000
              Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce


              Caryne Louise said:

              > At this point I would like to say; Stephen Hale is greatly respected
              > and (in my view) his investigations into the Karmic relationships
              > between people is well thought through...

              Steven Hale is a 3rd rate charlatan and moral retrograde. I spit on
              his name and anyone who mentions it in this forum.




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            • John Massengale
              ... I m not interested in spitting or being told what to say here. I will try signing myself off. If that doesn t work, please sign me off. thanks
              Message 6 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
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                On Jul 10, 2008, at 4:37 PM, Mathew Morrell wrote:

                I spit on 
                his name and anyone who mentions it in this forum. 

                I'm not interested in spitting or being told what to say here.

                I will try signing myself off. If that doesn't work, please sign me off.

                thanks
              • Mathew Morrell
                ... Steven Hale is that psycho pomp you removed from this forum a couple years ago, who joined this forum, it seems, for no other purpose than to clog it up,
                Message 7 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
                • 0 Attachment


                  --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > *******Who is he? I've never heard of him.
                  >

                  Steven Hale is that psycho pomp you removed from this forum a couple years ago, who joined this forum, it seems, for no other purpose than to clog it up, undermine, and manipulate people like me with his overbearing, ego-centric personality.

                  According to my sources, Steve Hale recently accused Starman of being in the mold of the Aryan Nation.  That's just one things he's accused Starman and myself of being.  There are many more lies and falsehoods that pour from this person's mouth.  Mr Hale has made a profession of creating devils and unleashing them through anthroposophical discussion forums.

                  Mathew  

                • Durward Starman
                  *******Thank you, Matthew. I d forgotten all about this rather unpleasant fellow. Just looked up his rantings when he was briefly a member of this list. No
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
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                    *******Thank you, Matthew. I'd forgotten all about this rather unpleasant fellow. Just looked up his rantings when he was briefly a member of this list. No wonder you reacted so.
                     
                        I see no evidence of any singular insight into peoples' past lives, or anything esoteric or spiritual for that matter, in this person. He appears to be just another egotist who is out to twist anthroposophy into something that supports his own opinions, rather similar to the fellow I mentioned who says he's the reincarnation of Edgar Cayce. They're a dime a dozen online here.
                     
                       I would not place much faith in anything he had to say about Edgar Cayce, or Rudolf Steiner, for that matter. He might have something worthwhile to say, but I would say one would have to critically examine every statement such a person makes for falsehoods.
                     
                    -starman

                    www.DrStarman.com




                    To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
                    From: tma4cbt@...
                    Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 21:35:05 +0000
                    Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce



                    --- In steiner@yahoogroups .com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@.. .> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > *******Who is he? I've never heard of him.
                    >

                    Steven Hale is that psycho pomp you removed from this forum a couple years ago, who joined this forum, it seems, for no other purpose than to clog it up, undermine, and manipulate people like me with his overbearing, ego-centric personality.

                    According to my sources, Steve Hale recently accused Starman of being in the mold of the Aryan Nation.  That's just one things he's accused Starman and myself of being.  There are many more lies and falsehoods that pour from this person's mouth.  Mr Hale has made a profession of creating devils and unleashing them through anthroposophical discussion forums.

                    Mathew  




                    Making the world a better place one message at a time. Check out the i'm Talkathon.
                  • happypick2000
                    ... I vaguely recall someone of that name although not the particulars. Unfortunately, this world seems to be full of unsavory types, and the best I can say in
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
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                      --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "Mathew Morrell" <tma4cbt@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > *******Who is he? I've never heard of him.
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Steven Hale is that psycho pomp you removed from this forum a couple
                      > years ago, who joined this forum, it seems, for no other purpose than to
                      > clog it up, undermine, and manipulate people like me with his
                      > overbearing, ego-centric personality.
                      >
                      > According to my sources, Steve Hale recently accused Starman of being in
                      > the mold of the Aryan Nation. That's just one things he's
                      > accused Starman and myself of being. There are many more lies and
                      > falsehoods that pour from this person's mouth. Mr Hale has made a
                      > profession of creating devils and unleashing them through
                      > anthroposophical discussion forums.
                      >
                      > Mathew
                      >
                      I vaguely recall someone of that name although not the particulars.
                      Unfortunately, this world seems to be full of unsavory types, and the
                      best I can say in such cases is to the effect that they will be held
                      responsible for any and all actions of theirs, and in a well deserved
                      way. I shudder to ponder such fates and can only try to overlook
                      harmful events and people while learning from them in the way Steiner
                      mentions coming across the dead dog with such beautiful teeth, but I
                      fail far too often.

                      Blessings,

                      Sheila
                    • Durward Starman
                      *******Sorry for Matthew s temper. But in any gathering of people an angry outburst will happen now and then. It s not a reason for leaving a group. I wonder,
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
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                        *******Sorry for Matthew's temper. But in any gathering of people an angry outburst will happen now and then. It's not a reason for leaving a group.
                         
                        I wonder, do you belong to an anthroposophical study group? Would you do the same there?

                        -starman

                        www.DrStarman.com




                        To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
                        From: john@...
                        Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 17:34:15 -0400
                        Subject: Re: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce



                        On Jul 10, 2008, at 4:37 PM, Mathew Morrell wrote:

                        I spit on 
                        his name and anyone who mentions it in this forum. 

                        I'm not interested in spitting or being told what to say here.

                        I will try signing myself off. If that doesn't work, please sign me off.

                        thanks




                        Making the world a better place one message at a time. Check out the i'm Talkathon.
                      • carynlouise24
                        Interesting reactions – Well it is interesting Mars is the reincarnation of the Old Moon. Explains the `trance state. One thing in life which I cannot
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jul 11, 2008
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                          Interesting reactions – Well it is interesting Mars is the
                          reincarnation of the Old Moon. Explains the `trance' state.

                          One thing in life which I cannot stand is when people say `blessings'
                          or `God bless you' – like they have this authority to tell God who to
                          bless who not to bless!

                          Well back to Billy … then



                          --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > *******Well, I'm sorry but I have to tell you that some of your
                          information is woefully inaccurate! You could verify this by doing a
                          search online or reading a few books about the Cayce Readings. I'd
                          recommend reading a biography of the man first, such as "There Is A
                          River" by Tom Sugrue, then look through whatever books of excerpts
                          from his psychic readings interest you, like Edgar Cayce on Atlantis,
                          Edgar Cayce on Jesus and His Church, etc. You'll find the information
                          quite similar to Theosophy and anthroposophy, frequently identical.
                          >
                          > The objection of Rittlemeyer's was about people claiming to be
                          an authority because of who they supposedly were in another life.
                          This has nothing to do with telling what other peoples' past lives
                          were--- which of course Dr. Steiner also did, so Rittlemeyer's
                          criticiism about "claiming authority" on the basis of previous
                          incarnations couldn't possibly include. He meant saying 'Well, I was
                          so-and-so in a past life and so you should listen to me' (as one poor
                          soul currently does who claims to have been Cayce himself, while
                          producing no evidence of any abilities in this life). Telling people
                          they should study music because they have an unrealized musical gift
                          due to having been a musician in ancient Greece, as the Cayce
                          Readings might do--- well, that's a completely different thing than
                          what Rittlemeyer was talking about, clearly. Dr. Steiner also would
                          identify learning disabilities in children as coming from past lives
                          and use this knowledge in treatment.
                          >
                          > Also, the Readings did not identify Cayce as having been
                          Pythagoras. He did say that in a past life he was an Egyptian
                          initiate unknown to history named Ra Ta, whose memory later became
                          mixed in with the mythological Ra. But he didn't claim people should
                          listen to him because he was that priest in the time of the building
                          of the pyramids. In fact, Cayce didn't ask people to listen to him at
                          all, as he was not a teacher like Steiner. He was a freakish case of
                          an ordinary-seeming man who, because of his past lives, could go into
                          a trance state and connect with the same sources as Blavatsky and
                          Steiner. In his trances, he mainly was asked medical questions about
                          people who were sick. Other stuff was secondary to him and he wasn't
                          sure how much to trust it himself.
                          >
                          > -starmanwww.DrStarman.com
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > To: steiner@...: carynlouise24@...: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:51:19
                          +0000Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > The Edgar Cayce's I have read are:The Life Story of JesusThe Origin
                          and Destiny of ManRevelationMany Happy Returns My thoughts are:In
                          Friedrich Rittelmeyer's `RUDOLF STEINER ENTERS MY LIFE' Friedrich
                          writes:`His (Rudolf Steiner) attitude in the Krishnamurti affair
                          shows that he regarded it as the greatest occult sin to claim
                          authority for anyone on the ground of previous incarnations. In the
                          age of the "Consciousness Soul" everyone must appeal with his
                          teaching simply and solely to men's own objective sense of truth, and
                          convince them purely on the basis of reason'.Edgar Cayce in an
                          unconscious state claimed authority for person's previous
                          incarnations and this should be a reason for concern. For instance;
                          say someone like Edgar Cayce had to say to me `you were Mickey Mouse
                          in your previous incarnation' – if I was naïve enough to believe this
                          (because I was seeking the fundamental question of life `who am I') I
                          would spend the rest of my life prancing around thinking to myself `I
                          am Mickey Mouse' and further begin to act, take on the role of,
                          Mickey Mouse - only to find when I pass through the portals of death
                          I was actually Donald Duck in a previous incarnation and thus wasted
                          a whole life in misconception.The age old wisdom comes to mind `Know
                          Thyself' through yourself being yourself.Another factor; Edgar Cayce
                          has claimed himself to be the great ancient leader Ra and the great
                          mathematician Pythagoras in previous lifetimes.As far as I know not
                          even Rudolf Steiner would claim to ascertain who he was in previous
                          lifetimes in such an open manner; and further the true understanding
                          of reincarnation of Initiates is not truly understood by the
                          uninitiated.At this point I would like to say; Stephen Hale is
                          greatly respected and (in my view) his investigations into the Karmic
                          relationships between people is well thought through, done in a very
                          concise manner and most importantly in a conscious manner. These
                          investigations, on people who have already passed through the
                          portals, namely Rudolf Steiner himself, directly proves the above
                          writing by Friedrich Rittelmeyer on Rudolf Steiner's view on previous
                          incarnations are done with an objective sense of truth based on
                          knowledge and reason and is a gift invaluable to anthroposophy.I have
                          spent years pondering Edgar Cayce and it is not without undue
                          considerations I put this forward.--- In steiner@yahoogroups.com,
                          Durward Starman <DrStarman@> wrote:>> > > > To: steiner@:
                          Cheeseandsalsa@: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 13:32:21 -0400Subject: Re: [steiner]
                          Edgar Cayce> > > > Barbara Handclow who isn't an anthro said that
                          Cayce is a member and his father of the masons. She wrote that they
                          were of the dark occult brotherhood...I personally do not resonate
                          with what he brought to us. > I do agree - a balance is always good
                          in communications.Any thoughts ... I wonder what Rudolf Steiner would
                          have to say on Edgar Cayce?> > > 1> > .> *******> > > > > > Well, in
                          this particular case I can say flatly that the lady is mistaken.
                          Neither Cayce nor his father were Masons, I know that from personal
                          study and contact with his family and many people who actually knew
                          him here in Virginia Beach. He was not a member of anything, and in
                          fact didn't know about Theosophy or anything esoteric until he began
                          answering questions about such matters in his "readings." He almost
                          never remembered anything he said in trance so they had to have a
                          stenographer take it all down, and he read what he'd said afterwards
                          along with everybody else. He was a simple Christian while awake and
                          never joined anything except the local Presbyterian Church here. His
                          father was a difficult man whom Edgar didn't get along with very
                          well, but he also was not a member of any brotherhood or anything and
                          had nothing to do with Edgar Cayce's work most of his life. > > As to
                          what you don't resonate with in the Cayce Readings, well there's a
                          lot that may be criticized in many ways. I don't know what you've
                          read from them. > > Starman>
                          __________________________________________________________> It's a
                          talkathon – but it's not just talk.> http://www.imtalkathon.com/?
                          source=EML_WLH_Talkathon_JustTalk>
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > _________________________________________________________________
                          > Making the world a better place one message at a time.
                          > http://www.imtalkathon.com/?source=EML_WLH_Talkathon_BetterPlace
                          >
                        • Durward Starman
                          ******* Why do you connect this to the planet Mars? I connect the trance state to Saturn, as it s a reversion to the state of consciousness of Ancient Saturn.
                          Message 12 of 18 , Jul 11, 2008
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                            ******* Why do you connect this to the planet Mars? I connect the trance state to Saturn, as it's a reversion to the state of consciousness of Ancient Saturn.

                            -starman

                            www.DrStarman.com




                            To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
                            From: carynlouise24@...
                            Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 08:19:09 +0000
                            Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce


                            Interesting reactions – Well it is interesting Mars is the
                            reincarnation of the Old Moon. Explains the `trance' state.

                            One thing in life which I cannot stand is when people say `blessings'
                            or `God bless you' – like they have this authority to tell God who to
                            bless who not to bless!

                            Well back to Billy … then

                            --- In steiner@yahoogroups .com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@. ..> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > *******Well, I'm sorry but I have to tell you that some of your
                            information is woefully inaccurate! You could verify this by doing a
                            search online or reading a few books about the Cayce Readings. I'd
                            recommend reading a biography of the man first, such as "There Is A
                            River" by Tom Sugrue, then look through whatever books of excerpts
                            from his psychic readings interest you, like Edgar Cayce on Atlantis,
                            Edgar Cayce on Jesus and His Church, etc. You'll find the information
                            quite similar to Theosophy and anthroposophy, frequently identical.
                            >
                            > The objection of Rittlemeyer' s was about people claiming to be
                            an authority because of who they supposedly were in another life.
                            This has nothing to do with telling what other peoples' past lives
                            were--- which of course Dr. Steiner also did, so Rittlemeyer' s
                            criticiism about "claiming authority" on the basis of previous
                            incarnations couldn't possibly include. He meant saying 'Well, I was
                            so-and-so in a past life and so you should listen to me' (as one poor
                            soul currently does who claims to have been Cayce himself, while
                            producing no evidence of any abilities in this life). Telling people
                            they should study music because they have an unrealized musical gift
                            due to having been a musician in ancient Greece, as the Cayce
                            Readings might do--- well, that's a completely different thing than
                            what Rittlemeyer was talking about, clearly. Dr. Steiner also would
                            identify learning disabilities in children as coming from past lives
                            and use this knowledge in treatment.
                            >
                            > Also, the Readings did not identify Cayce as having been
                            Pythagoras. He did say that in a past life he was an Egyptian
                            initiate unknown to history named Ra Ta, whose memory later became
                            mixed in with the mythological Ra. But he didn't claim people should
                            listen to him because he was that priest in the time of the building
                            of the pyramids. In fact, Cayce didn't ask people to listen to him at
                            all, as he was not a teacher like Steiner. He was a freakish case of
                            an ordinary-seeming man who, because of his past lives, could go into
                            a trance state and connect with the same sources as Blavatsky and
                            Steiner. In his trances, he mainly was asked medical questions about
                            people who were sick. Other stuff was secondary to him and he wasn't
                            sure how much to trust it himself.
                            >
                            > -starmanwww. DrStarman. com
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > To: steiner@...: carynlouise24@ ...: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:51:19
                            +0000Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > The Edgar Cayce's I have read are:The Life Story of JesusThe Origin
                            and Destiny of ManRevelationMany Happy Returns My thoughts are:In
                            Friedrich Rittelmeyer' s `RUDOLF STEINER ENTERS MY LIFE' Friedrich
                            writes:`His (Rudolf Steiner) attitude in the Krishnamurti affair
                            shows that he regarded it as the greatest occult sin to claim
                            authority for anyone on the ground of previous incarnations. In the
                            age of the "Consciousness Soul" everyone must appeal with his
                            teaching simply and solely to men's own objective sense of truth, and
                            convince them purely on the basis of reason'.Edgar Cayce in an
                            unconscious state claimed authority for person's previous
                            incarnations and this should be a reason for concern. For instance;
                            say someone like Edgar Cayce had to say to me `you were Mickey Mouse
                            in your previous incarnation' – if I was naïve enough to believe this
                            (because I was seeking the fundamental question of life `who am I') I
                            would spend the rest of my life prancing around thinking to myself `I
                            am Mickey Mouse' and further begin to act, take on the role of,
                            Mickey Mouse - only to find when I pass through the portals of death
                            I was actually Donald Duck in a previous incarnation and thus wasted
                            a whole life in misconception. The age old wisdom comes to mind `Know
                            Thyself' through yourself being yourself.Another factor; Edgar Cayce
                            has claimed himself to be the great ancient leader Ra and the great
                            mathematician Pythagoras in previous lifetimes.As far as I know not
                            even Rudolf Steiner would claim to ascertain who he was in previous
                            lifetimes in such an open manner; and further the true understanding
                            of reincarnation of Initiates is not truly understood by the
                            uninitiated. At this point I would like to say; Stephen Hale is
                            greatly respected and (in my view) his investigations into the Karmic
                            relationships between people is well thought through, done in a very
                            concise manner and most importantly in a conscious manner. These
                            investigations, on people who have already passed through the
                            portals, namely Rudolf Steiner himself, directly proves the above
                            writing by Friedrich Rittelmeyer on Rudolf Steiner's view on previous
                            incarnations are done with an objective sense of truth based on
                            knowledge and reason and is a gift invaluable to anthroposophy. I have
                            spent years pondering Edgar Cayce and it is not without undue
                            considerations I put this forward.--- In steiner@yahoogroups .com,
                            Durward Starman <DrStarman@> wrote:>> > > > To: steiner@:
                            Cheeseandsalsa@ : Mon, 7 Jul 2008 13:32:21 -0400Subject: Re: [steiner]
                            Edgar Cayce> > > > Barbara Handclow who isn't an anthro said that
                            Cayce is a member and his father of the masons. She wrote that they
                            were of the dark occult brotherhood. ..I personally do not resonate
                            with what he brought to us. > I do agree - a balance is always good
                            in communications. Any thoughts ... I wonder what Rudolf Steiner would
                            have to say on Edgar Cayce?> > > 1> > .> *******> > > > > > Well, in
                            this particular case I can say flatly that the lady is mistaken.
                            Neither Cayce nor his father were Masons, I know that from personal
                            study and contact with his family and many people who actually knew
                            him here in Virginia Beach. He was not a member of anything, and in
                            fact didn't know about Theosophy or anything esoteric until he began
                            answering questions about such matters in his "readings." He almost
                            never remembered anything he said in trance so they had to have a
                            stenographer take it all down, and he read what he'd said afterwards
                            along with everybody else. He was a simple Christian while awake and
                            never joined anything except the local Presbyterian Church here. His
                            father was a difficult man whom Edgar didn't get along with very
                            well, but he also was not a member of any brotherhood or anything and
                            had nothing to do with Edgar Cayce's work most of his life. > > As to
                            what you don't resonate with in the Cayce Readings, well there's a
                            lot that may be criticized in many ways. I don't know what you've
                            read from them. > > Starman>
                            ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _> It's a
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                            >
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                            >
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                            > http://www.imtalkat hon.com/? source=EML_ WLH_Talkathon_ BetterPlace
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                          • carynlouise24
                            I trace it to the Old Moon stage of clairvoyance for specific corresponding reasons. Arhimanic and his sidekick the untamed Luciferic. We understand during
                            Message 13 of 18 , Jul 14, 2008
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                              I trace it to the Old Moon stage of clairvoyance for specific
                              corresponding reasons. Arhimanic and his sidekick the untamed
                              Luciferic. We understand during the Old Moon period the astral body
                              was in development and the mineral was not yet included in the human
                              body, this was a predominately Luciferic stage.

                              In Rudolf Steiner's `Polarities in the Evolution of Mankind' eleven
                              lectures given to members of the Anthroposophical Society in
                              Stuttgart 5 March to 22 November 1920 pg 108 – we read

                              `The Jesuit literature on the material world is much more brilliantly
                              written than the works of many others writers on the subject today.
                              Father Erich Wasmann's work on ants, for example, is really good, you
                              will gain more from reading it than from the pedantic, uninspired
                              writings of other scientists. Many more examples could be given.

                              The (work of the) Jesuits would be excellent if they confined
                              themselves to the material world; it is a deliberate aim (of the
                              Jesuits) to use their description of the material world to encourage
                              people to associate knowledge with the materialistic aspect of the
                              physical world only.

                              The intention is to pretend to human minds that the methods used to
                              gain knowledge cannot be used to investigate the supersensible
                              world. In ancient times Lucifer-dominated individuals suggested that
                              human beings would gain mastery of the world if they made use of
                              ancient divine knowledge, yet evolution had already gone beyond this
                              point.

                              Now we have late followers of those people from post-primeval times
                              pretending to the world that it is not possible to extend knowledge
                              to the supersensible sphere and that knowledge cannot go beyond the
                              sense-perceptible world. In those early times the intention had been
                              to drug people with supersensible knowledge.

                              Now human beings of the same ilk want to use all possible means to
                              push humanity into the physical world; they want human beings stuck
                              in that world and grasp the supersensible world only with the
                              nebulous impulse of faith.

                              In post-primeval times the aim had been to inundate humankind with an
                              excess of supersensible knowledge. Today those late followers want
                              human beings to have less than the right amount of knowledge in this
                              sphere. Past intent was to provide supersensible knowledge that was
                              no longer appropriate. Present intent is to let people have only
                              sense-bound knowledge, making the supersensible world an area where
                              every individual may hold whatever views he or she likes.

                              What would be the outcome if the group of people to whom we are
                              referring were to achieve some kind of victory? These are the people
                              who deliberately make a sharp distinction between knowledge and
                              belief. There are of course large numbers of easily led people who
                              come across the diatribe on the `clear distinction between faith and
                              knowledge' and repeat it; they merely repeat it.

                              What is all this about? The aim is to do the opposite of what those
                              individual in post-primeval times did in their way. In the old days
                              the intention was to prevent humanity from descending completely and
                              taking up its mission on earth. Today the intention is to keep
                              people tied to that mission on earth to prevent their further
                              development, for which the earth would provide the basis. The very
                              people who are now supporting materialism call
                              themselves `spiritualists', or priests of some faith or other,
                              representatives of the supersensible world.

                              In those ancient times the people offering a life in the spirit that
                              was no longer justifiable called themselves materialists. They did
                              so from the point of view which I have characterized. Today a large
                              number of people who really wish to keep humanity bound to the
                              material world call themselves representatives of the spiritual
                              world.'

                              Page 50

                              Think of all the efforts we go to in spiritual science working
                              towards anthroposophy to form sufficiently clear ideas; for
                              instances, as to how far the things we become aware of in human
                              minds, in the form of dreams, may or may not be reflecting the
                              truth. As human beings we cannot immediately distinguish truth from
                              falsehood when something appears in the course of a dream. The same
                              state of mind arises for a congregation when they are told lies by
                              people who know those lies will be believed. The soul is brought to
                              a state, a mood, by those lies where it becomes the willing tool of
                              those desiring power. It is easiest to get people into your power by
                              planting illusions in their unsuspecting minds'.




                              --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > ******* Why do you connect this to the planet Mars? I connect the
                              trance state to Saturn, as it's a reversion to the state of
                              consciousness of Ancient Saturn.
                              > -starman
                              > www.DrStarman.com
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > To: steiner@...: carynlouise24@...: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 08:19:09
                              +0000Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Interesting reactions – Well it is interesting Mars is the
                              reincarnation of the Old Moon. Explains the `trance' state.One thing
                              in life which I cannot stand is when people say `blessings' or `God
                              bless you' – like they have this authority to tell God who to bless
                              who not to bless!Well back to Billy … then --- In
                              steiner@yahoogroups.com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@> wrote:>> >
                              *******Well, I'm sorry but I have to tell you that some of your
                              information is woefully inaccurate! You could verify this by doing a
                              search online or reading a few books about the Cayce Readings. I'd
                              recommend reading a biography of the man first, such as "There Is A
                              River" by Tom Sugrue, then look through whatever books of excerpts
                              from his psychic readings interest you, like Edgar Cayce on Atlantis,
                              Edgar Cayce on Jesus and His Church, etc. You'll find the information
                              quite similar to Theosophy and anthroposophy, frequently identical.>
                              > The objection of Rittlemeyer's was about people claiming to be an
                              authority because of who they supposedly were in another life. This
                              has nothing to do with telling what other peoples' past lives were---
                              which of course Dr. Steiner also did, so Rittlemeyer's criticiism
                              about "claiming authority" on the basis of previous incarnations
                              couldn't possibly include. He meant saying 'Well, I was so-and-so in
                              a past life and so you should listen to me' (as one poor soul
                              currently does who claims to have been Cayce himself, while producing
                              no evidence of any abilities in this life). Telling people they
                              should study music because they have an unrealized musical gift due
                              to having been a musician in ancient Greece, as the Cayce Readings
                              might do--- well, that's a completely different thing than what
                              Rittlemeyer was talking about, clearly. Dr. Steiner also would
                              identify learning disabilities in children as coming from past lives
                              and use this knowledge in treatment.> > Also, the Readings did not
                              identify Cayce as having been Pythagoras. He did say that in a past
                              life he was an Egyptian initiate unknown to history named Ra Ta,
                              whose memory later became mixed in with the mythological Ra. But he
                              didn't claim people should listen to him because he was that priest
                              in the time of the building of the pyramids. In fact, Cayce didn't
                              ask people to listen to him at all, as he was not a teacher like
                              Steiner. He was a freakish case of an ordinary-seeming man who,
                              because of his past lives, could go into a trance state and connect
                              with the same sources as Blavatsky and Steiner. In his trances, he
                              mainly was asked medical questions about people who were sick. Other
                              stuff was secondary to him and he wasn't sure how much to trust it
                              himself.> > -starmanwww.DrStarman.com> > > > To: steiner@:
                              carynlouise24@: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:51:19 +0000Subject: [steiner] Re:
                              Edgar Cayce> > > > > The Edgar Cayce's I have read are:The Life Story
                              of JesusThe Origin and Destiny of ManRevelationMany Happy Returns My
                              thoughts are:In Friedrich Rittelmeyer's `RUDOLF STEINER ENTERS MY
                              LIFE' Friedrich writes:`His (Rudolf Steiner) attitude in the
                              Krishnamurti affair shows that he regarded it as the greatest occult
                              sin to claim authority for anyone on the ground of previous
                              incarnations. In the age of the "Consciousness Soul" everyone must
                              appeal with his teaching simply and solely to men's own objective
                              sense of truth, and convince them purely on the basis of
                              reason'.Edgar Cayce in an unconscious state claimed authority for
                              person's previous incarnations and this should be a reason for
                              concern. For instance; say someone like Edgar Cayce had to say to me
                              `you were Mickey Mouse in your previous incarnation' – if I was naïve
                              enough to believe this (because I was seeking the fundamental
                              question of life `who am I') I would spend the rest of my life
                              prancing around thinking to myself `I am Mickey Mouse' and further
                              begin to act, take on the role of, Mickey Mouse - only to find when I
                              pass through the portals of death I was actually Donald Duck in a
                              previous incarnation and thus wasted a whole life in
                              misconception.The age old wisdom comes to mind `Know Thyself' through
                              yourself being yourself.Another factor; Edgar Cayce has claimed
                              himself to be the great ancient leader Ra and the great mathematician
                              Pythagoras in previous lifetimes.As far as I know not even Rudolf
                              Steiner would claim to ascertain who he was in previous lifetimes in
                              such an open manner; and further the true understanding of
                              reincarnation of Initiates is not truly understood by the
                              uninitiated.At this point I would like to say; Stephen Hale is
                              greatly respected and (in my view) his investigations into the Karmic
                              relationships between people is well thought through, done in a very
                              concise manner and most importantly in a conscious manner. These
                              investigations, on people who have already passed through the
                              portals, namely Rudolf Steiner himself, directly proves the above
                              writing by Friedrich Rittelmeyer on Rudolf Steiner's view on previous
                              incarnations are done with an objective sense of truth based on
                              knowledge and reason and is a gift invaluable to anthroposophy.I have
                              spent years pondering Edgar Cayce and it is not without undue
                              considerations I put this forward.--- In steiner@yahoogroups.com,
                              Durward Starman <DrStarman@> wrote:>> > > > To: steiner@:
                              Cheeseandsalsa@: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 13:32:21 -0400Subject: Re: [steiner]
                              Edgar Cayce> > > > Barbara Handclow who isn't an anthro said that
                              Cayce is a member and his father of the masons. She wrote that they
                              were of the dark occult brotherhood...I personally do not resonate
                              with what he brought to us. > I do agree - a balance is always good
                              in communications.Any thoughts ... I wonder what Rudolf Steiner would
                              have to say on Edgar Cayce?> > > 1> > .> *******> > > > > > Well, in
                              this particular case I can say flatly that the lady is mistaken.
                              Neither Cayce nor his father were Masons, I know that from personal
                              study and contact with his family and many people who actually knew
                              him here in Virginia Beach. He was not a member of anything, and in
                              fact didn't know about Theosophy or anything esoteric until he began
                              answering questions about such matters in his "readings." He almost
                              never remembered anything he said in trance so they had to have a
                              stenographer take it all down, and he read what he'd said afterwards
                              along with everybody else. He was a simple Christian while awake and
                              never joined anything except the local Presbyterian Church here. His
                              father was a difficult man whom Edgar didn't get along with very
                              well, but he also was not a member of any brotherhood or anything and
                              had nothing to do with Edgar Cayce's work most of his life. > > As to
                              what you don't resonate with in the Cayce Readings, well there's a
                              lot that may be criticized in many ways. I don't know what you've
                              read from them. > > Starman>
                              __________________________________________________________> It's a
                              talkathon – but it's not just talk.> http://www.imtalkathon.com/?
                              source=EML_WLH_Talkathon_JustTalk> > > > > > >
                              __________________________________________________________> Making
                              the world a better place one message at a time.>
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