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RE: [steiner] Edgar Cayce

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  • Durward Starman
    To: steiner@yahoogroups.comFrom: Cheeseandsalsa@aol.comDate: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 13:32:21 -0400Subject: Re: [steiner] Edgar Cayce Barbara Handclow who isn t an
    Message 1 of 18 , Jul 7, 2008



      To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
      From: Cheeseandsalsa@...
      Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 13:32:21 -0400
      Subject: Re: [steiner] Edgar Cayce

      Barbara Handclow who isn't an anthro said that Cayce is a member and his father of the masons. She wrote that they were of the dark occult brotherhood. ..I personally do not resonate with what he brought to us.
       

      I do agree - a balance is always good in communications.

      Any thoughts ... I wonder what Rudolf Steiner would have to say on
      Edgar Cayce?
       

       1

       

      .

      *******Well, in this particular case I can say flatly that the lady is mistaken. Neither Cayce nor his father were Masons, I know that from personal study and contact with his family and many people who actually knew him here in Virginia Beach. He was not a member of anything, and in fact didn't know about Theosophy or anything esoteric until he began answering questions about such matters in his "readings." He almost never remembered anything he said in trance so they had to have a stenographer take it all down, and he read what he'd said afterwards along with everybody else.  He was a simple Christian while awake and never joined anything except the local Presbyterian Church here. His father was a difficult man whom Edgar didn't get along with very well, but he also was not a member of any brotherhood or anything and had nothing to do with Edgar Cayce's work most of his life.
       
         As to what you don't resonate with in the Cayce Readings, well there's a lot that may be criticized in many ways. I don't know what you've read from them.
       
      Starman


      It’s a talkathon – but it’s not just talk. Check out the i’m Talkathon.
    • carynlouise24
      The Edgar Cayce s I have read are: The Life Story of Jesus The Origin and Destiny of Man Revelation Many Happy Returns My thoughts are: In Friedrich
      Message 2 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
        The Edgar Cayce's I have read are:

        The Life Story of Jesus
        The Origin and Destiny of Man
        Revelation
        Many Happy Returns

        My thoughts are:

        In Friedrich Rittelmeyer's `RUDOLF STEINER ENTERS MY LIFE' Friedrich
        writes:

        `His (Rudolf Steiner) attitude in the Krishnamurti affair shows that
        he regarded it as the greatest occult sin to claim authority for
        anyone on the ground of previous incarnations. In the age of
        the "Consciousness Soul" everyone must appeal with his teaching
        simply and solely to men's own objective sense of truth, and convince
        them purely on the basis of reason'.

        Edgar Cayce in an unconscious state claimed authority for person's
        previous incarnations and this should be a reason for concern.

        For instance; say someone like Edgar Cayce had to say to me `you were
        Mickey Mouse in your previous incarnation' – if I was naïve enough to
        believe this (because I was seeking the fundamental question of
        life `who am I') I would spend the rest of my life prancing around
        thinking to myself `I am Mickey Mouse' and further begin to act, take
        on the role of, Mickey Mouse - only to find when I pass through the
        portals of death I was actually Donald Duck in a previous incarnation
        and thus wasted a whole life in misconception.

        The age old wisdom comes to mind `Know Thyself' through yourself
        being yourself.

        Another factor; Edgar Cayce has claimed himself to be the great
        ancient leader Ra and the great mathematician Pythagoras in previous
        lifetimes.

        As far as I know not even Rudolf Steiner would claim to ascertain who
        he was in previous lifetimes in such an open manner; and further the
        true understanding of reincarnation of Initiates is not truly
        understood by the uninitiated.

        At this point I would like to say; Stephen Hale is greatly respected
        and (in my view) his investigations into the Karmic relationships
        between people is well thought through, done in a very concise manner
        and most importantly in a conscious manner. These investigations, on
        people who have already passed through the portals, namely Rudolf
        Steiner himself, directly proves the above writing by Friedrich
        Rittelmeyer on Rudolf Steiner's view on previous incarnations are
        done with an objective sense of truth based on knowledge and reason
        and is a gift invaluable to anthroposophy.

        I have spent years pondering Edgar Cayce and it is not without undue
        considerations I put this forward.


        --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > To: steiner@...: Cheeseandsalsa@...: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 13:32:21 -
        0400Subject: Re: [steiner] Edgar Cayce
        >
        >
        >
        > Barbara Handclow who isn't an anthro said that Cayce is a member
        and his father of the masons. She wrote that they were of the dark
        occult brotherhood...I personally do not resonate with what he
        brought to us.
        > I do agree - a balance is always good in communications.Any
        thoughts ... I wonder what Rudolf Steiner would have to say on Edgar
        Cayce?
        >
        >
        > 1
        >
        > .
        > *******
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Well, in this particular case I can say flatly that the lady is
        mistaken. Neither Cayce nor his father were Masons, I know that from
        personal study and contact with his family and many people who
        actually knew him here in Virginia Beach. He was not a member of
        anything, and in fact didn't know about Theosophy or anything
        esoteric until he began answering questions about such matters in
        his "readings." He almost never remembered anything he said in trance
        so they had to have a stenographer take it all down, and he read what
        he'd said afterwards along with everybody else. He was a simple
        Christian while awake and never joined anything except the local
        Presbyterian Church here. His father was a difficult man whom Edgar
        didn't get along with very well, but he also was not a member of any
        brotherhood or anything and had nothing to do with Edgar Cayce's work
        most of his life.
        >
        > As to what you don't resonate with in the Cayce Readings, well
        there's a lot that may be criticized in many ways. I don't know what
        you've read from them.
        >
        > Starman
        > _________________________________________________________________
        > It's a talkathon – but it's not just talk.
        > http://www.imtalkathon.com/?source=EML_WLH_Talkathon_JustTalk
        >
      • Cheeseandsalsa@aol.com
        Thank you for that, it was very interesting. I mentioned what Handclow said about Cayce to an friend today, who has been a long time anthroposophist, and he
        Message 3 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
          Thank you for that, it was very interesting. I mentioned what Handclow said about Cayce to an friend today, who has been a long time anthroposophist, and he doesn't believe Cayce was a member of the dark occult. For what its worth. Thank you for that post it was a good one. Chantel




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        • Durward Starman
          *******Well, I m sorry but I have to tell you that some of your information is woefully inaccurate! You could verify this by doing a search online or reading a
          Message 4 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
            *******Well, I'm sorry but I have to tell you that some of your information is woefully inaccurate! You could verify this by doing a search online or reading a few books about the Cayce Readings. I'd recommend reading a biography of the man first, such as "There Is A River" by Tom Sugrue, then look through whatever books of excerpts from his psychic readings interest you, like Edgar Cayce on Atlantis, Edgar Cayce on Jesus and His Church, etc. You'll find the information quite similar to Theosophy and anthroposophy, frequently identical.
             
               The objection of Rittlemeyer's was about people claiming to be an authority because of who they supposedly were in another life. This has nothing to do with telling what other peoples' past lives were--- which of course Dr. Steiner also did, so Rittlemeyer's criticiism about "claiming authority" on the basis of previous incarnations couldn't possibly include. He meant saying 'Well, I was so-and-so in a past life and so you should listen to me' (as one poor soul currently does who claims to have been Cayce himself, while producing no evidence of any abilities in this life).  Telling people they should study music because they have an unrealized musical gift due to having been a musician in ancient Greece, as the Cayce Readings might do--- well, that's a completely different thing than what Rittlemeyer was talking about, clearly. Dr. Steiner also would identify learning disabilities in children as coming from past lives and use this knowledge in treatment.
             
                Also, the Readings did not identify Cayce as having been Pythagoras. He did say that in a past life he was an Egyptian initiate unknown to history named Ra Ta, whose memory later became mixed in with the mythological Ra. But he didn't claim people should listen to him because he was that priest in the time of the building of the pyramids. In fact, Cayce didn't ask people to listen to him at all, as he was not a teacher like Steiner. He was a freakish case of an ordinary-seeming man who, because of his past lives, could go into a trance state and connect with the same sources as Blavatsky and Steiner. In his trances, he mainly was asked medical questions about people who were sick. Other stuff was secondary to him and he wasn't sure how much to trust it himself.
             
            -starman

            www.DrStarman.com




            To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
            From: carynlouise24@...
            Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:51:19 +0000
            Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce


            The Edgar Cayce's I have read are:

            The Life Story of Jesus
            The Origin and Destiny of Man
            Revelation
            Many Happy Returns

            My thoughts are:

            In Friedrich Rittelmeyer' s `RUDOLF STEINER ENTERS MY LIFE' Friedrich
            writes:

            `His (Rudolf Steiner) attitude in the Krishnamurti affair shows that
            he regarded it as the greatest occult sin to claim authority for
            anyone on the ground of previous incarnations. In the age of
            the "Consciousness Soul" everyone must appeal with his teaching
            simply and solely to men's own objective sense of truth, and convince
            them purely on the basis of reason'.

            Edgar Cayce in an unconscious state claimed authority for person's
            previous incarnations and this should be a reason for concern.

            For instance; say someone like Edgar Cayce had to say to me `you were
            Mickey Mouse in your previous incarnation' – if I was naïve enough to
            believe this (because I was seeking the fundamental question of
            life `who am I') I would spend the rest of my life prancing around
            thinking to myself `I am Mickey Mouse' and further begin to act, take
            on the role of, Mickey Mouse - only to find when I pass through the
            portals of death I was actually Donald Duck in a previous incarnation
            and thus wasted a whole life in misconception.

            The age old wisdom comes to mind `Know Thyself' through yourself
            being yourself.

            Another factor; Edgar Cayce has claimed himself to be the great
            ancient leader Ra and the great mathematician Pythagoras in previous
            lifetimes.

            As far as I know not even Rudolf Steiner would claim to ascertain who
            he was in previous lifetimes in such an open manner; and further the
            true understanding of reincarnation of Initiates is not truly
            understood by the uninitiated.

            At this point I would like to say; Stephen Hale is greatly respected
            and (in my view) his investigations into the Karmic relationships
            between people is well thought through, done in a very concise manner
            and most importantly in a conscious manner. These investigations, on
            people who have already passed through the portals, namely Rudolf
            Steiner himself, directly proves the above writing by Friedrich
            Rittelmeyer on Rudolf Steiner's view on previous incarnations are
            done with an objective sense of truth based on knowledge and reason
            and is a gift invaluable to anthroposophy.

            I have spent years pondering Edgar Cayce and it is not without undue
            considerations I put this forward.

            --- In steiner@yahoogroups .com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@. ..> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > To: steiner@...: Cheeseandsalsa@ ...: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 13:32:21 -
            0400Subject: Re: [steiner] Edgar Cayce
            >
            >
            >
            > Barbara Handclow who isn't an anthro said that Cayce is a member
            and his father of the masons. She wrote that they were of the dark
            occult brotherhood. ..I personally do not resonate with what he
            brought to us.
            > I do agree - a balance is always good in communications. Any
            thoughts ... I wonder what Rudolf Steiner would have to say on Edgar
            Cayce?
            >
            >
            > 1
            >
            > .
            > *******
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Well, in this particular case I can say flatly that the lady is
            mistaken. Neither Cayce nor his father were Masons, I know that from
            personal study and contact with his family and many people who
            actually knew him here in Virginia Beach. He was not a member of
            anything, and in fact didn't know about Theosophy or anything
            esoteric until he began answering questions about such matters in
            his "readings." He almost never remembered anything he said in trance
            so they had to have a stenographer take it all down, and he read what
            he'd said afterwards along with everybody else. He was a simple
            Christian while awake and never joined anything except the local
            Presbyterian Church here. His father was a difficult man whom Edgar
            didn't get along with very well, but he also was not a member of any
            brotherhood or anything and had nothing to do with Edgar Cayce's work
            most of his life.
            >
            > As to what you don't resonate with in the Cayce Readings, well
            there's a lot that may be criticized in many ways. I don't know what
            you've read from them.
            >
            > Starman
            > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
            > It's a talkathon – but it's not just talk.
            > http://www.imtalkat hon.com/? source=EML_ WLH_Talkathon_ JustTalk
            >




            Making the world a better place one message at a time. Check out the i’m Talkathon.
          • Mathew Morrell
            ... Steven Hale is a 3rd rate charlatan and moral retrograde. I spit on his name and anyone who mentions it in this forum.
            Message 5 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
              Caryne Louise said:

              > At this point I would like to say; Stephen Hale is greatly respected
              > and (in my view) his investigations into the Karmic relationships
              > between people is well thought through...

              Steven Hale is a 3rd rate charlatan and moral retrograde. I spit on
              his name and anyone who mentions it in this forum.
            • Durward Starman
              *******Who is he? I ve never heard of him. -starmanwww.DrStarman.com To: steiner@yahoogroups.comFrom: tma4cbt@juno.comDate: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 20:37:24
              Message 6 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
                *******Who is he? I've never heard of him.
                 
                -starman

                www.DrStarman.com




                To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
                From: tma4cbt@...
                Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 20:37:24 +0000
                Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce


                Caryne Louise said:

                > At this point I would like to say; Stephen Hale is greatly respected
                > and (in my view) his investigations into the Karmic relationships
                > between people is well thought through...

                Steven Hale is a 3rd rate charlatan and moral retrograde. I spit on
                his name and anyone who mentions it in this forum.




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              • John Massengale
                ... I m not interested in spitting or being told what to say here. I will try signing myself off. If that doesn t work, please sign me off. thanks
                Message 7 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008

                  On Jul 10, 2008, at 4:37 PM, Mathew Morrell wrote:

                  I spit on 
                  his name and anyone who mentions it in this forum. 

                  I'm not interested in spitting or being told what to say here.

                  I will try signing myself off. If that doesn't work, please sign me off.

                  thanks
                • Mathew Morrell
                  ... Steven Hale is that psycho pomp you removed from this forum a couple years ago, who joined this forum, it seems, for no other purpose than to clog it up,
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008


                    --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > *******Who is he? I've never heard of him.
                    >

                    Steven Hale is that psycho pomp you removed from this forum a couple years ago, who joined this forum, it seems, for no other purpose than to clog it up, undermine, and manipulate people like me with his overbearing, ego-centric personality.

                    According to my sources, Steve Hale recently accused Starman of being in the mold of the Aryan Nation.  That's just one things he's accused Starman and myself of being.  There are many more lies and falsehoods that pour from this person's mouth.  Mr Hale has made a profession of creating devils and unleashing them through anthroposophical discussion forums.

                    Mathew  

                  • Durward Starman
                    *******Thank you, Matthew. I d forgotten all about this rather unpleasant fellow. Just looked up his rantings when he was briefly a member of this list. No
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
                      *******Thank you, Matthew. I'd forgotten all about this rather unpleasant fellow. Just looked up his rantings when he was briefly a member of this list. No wonder you reacted so.
                       
                          I see no evidence of any singular insight into peoples' past lives, or anything esoteric or spiritual for that matter, in this person. He appears to be just another egotist who is out to twist anthroposophy into something that supports his own opinions, rather similar to the fellow I mentioned who says he's the reincarnation of Edgar Cayce. They're a dime a dozen online here.
                       
                         I would not place much faith in anything he had to say about Edgar Cayce, or Rudolf Steiner, for that matter. He might have something worthwhile to say, but I would say one would have to critically examine every statement such a person makes for falsehoods.
                       
                      -starman

                      www.DrStarman.com




                      To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
                      From: tma4cbt@...
                      Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 21:35:05 +0000
                      Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce



                      --- In steiner@yahoogroups .com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@.. .> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > *******Who is he? I've never heard of him.
                      >

                      Steven Hale is that psycho pomp you removed from this forum a couple years ago, who joined this forum, it seems, for no other purpose than to clog it up, undermine, and manipulate people like me with his overbearing, ego-centric personality.

                      According to my sources, Steve Hale recently accused Starman of being in the mold of the Aryan Nation.  That's just one things he's accused Starman and myself of being.  There are many more lies and falsehoods that pour from this person's mouth.  Mr Hale has made a profession of creating devils and unleashing them through anthroposophical discussion forums.

                      Mathew  




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                    • happypick2000
                      ... I vaguely recall someone of that name although not the particulars. Unfortunately, this world seems to be full of unsavory types, and the best I can say in
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
                        --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "Mathew Morrell" <tma4cbt@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > *******Who is he? I've never heard of him.
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Steven Hale is that psycho pomp you removed from this forum a couple
                        > years ago, who joined this forum, it seems, for no other purpose than to
                        > clog it up, undermine, and manipulate people like me with his
                        > overbearing, ego-centric personality.
                        >
                        > According to my sources, Steve Hale recently accused Starman of being in
                        > the mold of the Aryan Nation. That's just one things he's
                        > accused Starman and myself of being. There are many more lies and
                        > falsehoods that pour from this person's mouth. Mr Hale has made a
                        > profession of creating devils and unleashing them through
                        > anthroposophical discussion forums.
                        >
                        > Mathew
                        >
                        I vaguely recall someone of that name although not the particulars.
                        Unfortunately, this world seems to be full of unsavory types, and the
                        best I can say in such cases is to the effect that they will be held
                        responsible for any and all actions of theirs, and in a well deserved
                        way. I shudder to ponder such fates and can only try to overlook
                        harmful events and people while learning from them in the way Steiner
                        mentions coming across the dead dog with such beautiful teeth, but I
                        fail far too often.

                        Blessings,

                        Sheila
                      • Durward Starman
                        *******Sorry for Matthew s temper. But in any gathering of people an angry outburst will happen now and then. It s not a reason for leaving a group. I wonder,
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
                          *******Sorry for Matthew's temper. But in any gathering of people an angry outburst will happen now and then. It's not a reason for leaving a group.
                           
                          I wonder, do you belong to an anthroposophical study group? Would you do the same there?

                          -starman

                          www.DrStarman.com




                          To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
                          From: john@...
                          Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 17:34:15 -0400
                          Subject: Re: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce



                          On Jul 10, 2008, at 4:37 PM, Mathew Morrell wrote:

                          I spit on 
                          his name and anyone who mentions it in this forum. 

                          I'm not interested in spitting or being told what to say here.

                          I will try signing myself off. If that doesn't work, please sign me off.

                          thanks




                          Making the world a better place one message at a time. Check out the i'm Talkathon.
                        • carynlouise24
                          Interesting reactions – Well it is interesting Mars is the reincarnation of the Old Moon. Explains the `trance state. One thing in life which I cannot
                          Message 12 of 18 , Jul 11, 2008
                            Interesting reactions – Well it is interesting Mars is the
                            reincarnation of the Old Moon. Explains the `trance' state.

                            One thing in life which I cannot stand is when people say `blessings'
                            or `God bless you' – like they have this authority to tell God who to
                            bless who not to bless!

                            Well back to Billy … then



                            --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > *******Well, I'm sorry but I have to tell you that some of your
                            information is woefully inaccurate! You could verify this by doing a
                            search online or reading a few books about the Cayce Readings. I'd
                            recommend reading a biography of the man first, such as "There Is A
                            River" by Tom Sugrue, then look through whatever books of excerpts
                            from his psychic readings interest you, like Edgar Cayce on Atlantis,
                            Edgar Cayce on Jesus and His Church, etc. You'll find the information
                            quite similar to Theosophy and anthroposophy, frequently identical.
                            >
                            > The objection of Rittlemeyer's was about people claiming to be
                            an authority because of who they supposedly were in another life.
                            This has nothing to do with telling what other peoples' past lives
                            were--- which of course Dr. Steiner also did, so Rittlemeyer's
                            criticiism about "claiming authority" on the basis of previous
                            incarnations couldn't possibly include. He meant saying 'Well, I was
                            so-and-so in a past life and so you should listen to me' (as one poor
                            soul currently does who claims to have been Cayce himself, while
                            producing no evidence of any abilities in this life). Telling people
                            they should study music because they have an unrealized musical gift
                            due to having been a musician in ancient Greece, as the Cayce
                            Readings might do--- well, that's a completely different thing than
                            what Rittlemeyer was talking about, clearly. Dr. Steiner also would
                            identify learning disabilities in children as coming from past lives
                            and use this knowledge in treatment.
                            >
                            > Also, the Readings did not identify Cayce as having been
                            Pythagoras. He did say that in a past life he was an Egyptian
                            initiate unknown to history named Ra Ta, whose memory later became
                            mixed in with the mythological Ra. But he didn't claim people should
                            listen to him because he was that priest in the time of the building
                            of the pyramids. In fact, Cayce didn't ask people to listen to him at
                            all, as he was not a teacher like Steiner. He was a freakish case of
                            an ordinary-seeming man who, because of his past lives, could go into
                            a trance state and connect with the same sources as Blavatsky and
                            Steiner. In his trances, he mainly was asked medical questions about
                            people who were sick. Other stuff was secondary to him and he wasn't
                            sure how much to trust it himself.
                            >
                            > -starmanwww.DrStarman.com
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > To: steiner@...: carynlouise24@...: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:51:19
                            +0000Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > The Edgar Cayce's I have read are:The Life Story of JesusThe Origin
                            and Destiny of ManRevelationMany Happy Returns My thoughts are:In
                            Friedrich Rittelmeyer's `RUDOLF STEINER ENTERS MY LIFE' Friedrich
                            writes:`His (Rudolf Steiner) attitude in the Krishnamurti affair
                            shows that he regarded it as the greatest occult sin to claim
                            authority for anyone on the ground of previous incarnations. In the
                            age of the "Consciousness Soul" everyone must appeal with his
                            teaching simply and solely to men's own objective sense of truth, and
                            convince them purely on the basis of reason'.Edgar Cayce in an
                            unconscious state claimed authority for person's previous
                            incarnations and this should be a reason for concern. For instance;
                            say someone like Edgar Cayce had to say to me `you were Mickey Mouse
                            in your previous incarnation' – if I was naïve enough to believe this
                            (because I was seeking the fundamental question of life `who am I') I
                            would spend the rest of my life prancing around thinking to myself `I
                            am Mickey Mouse' and further begin to act, take on the role of,
                            Mickey Mouse - only to find when I pass through the portals of death
                            I was actually Donald Duck in a previous incarnation and thus wasted
                            a whole life in misconception.The age old wisdom comes to mind `Know
                            Thyself' through yourself being yourself.Another factor; Edgar Cayce
                            has claimed himself to be the great ancient leader Ra and the great
                            mathematician Pythagoras in previous lifetimes.As far as I know not
                            even Rudolf Steiner would claim to ascertain who he was in previous
                            lifetimes in such an open manner; and further the true understanding
                            of reincarnation of Initiates is not truly understood by the
                            uninitiated.At this point I would like to say; Stephen Hale is
                            greatly respected and (in my view) his investigations into the Karmic
                            relationships between people is well thought through, done in a very
                            concise manner and most importantly in a conscious manner. These
                            investigations, on people who have already passed through the
                            portals, namely Rudolf Steiner himself, directly proves the above
                            writing by Friedrich Rittelmeyer on Rudolf Steiner's view on previous
                            incarnations are done with an objective sense of truth based on
                            knowledge and reason and is a gift invaluable to anthroposophy.I have
                            spent years pondering Edgar Cayce and it is not without undue
                            considerations I put this forward.--- In steiner@yahoogroups.com,
                            Durward Starman <DrStarman@> wrote:>> > > > To: steiner@:
                            Cheeseandsalsa@: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 13:32:21 -0400Subject: Re: [steiner]
                            Edgar Cayce> > > > Barbara Handclow who isn't an anthro said that
                            Cayce is a member and his father of the masons. She wrote that they
                            were of the dark occult brotherhood...I personally do not resonate
                            with what he brought to us. > I do agree - a balance is always good
                            in communications.Any thoughts ... I wonder what Rudolf Steiner would
                            have to say on Edgar Cayce?> > > 1> > .> *******> > > > > > Well, in
                            this particular case I can say flatly that the lady is mistaken.
                            Neither Cayce nor his father were Masons, I know that from personal
                            study and contact with his family and many people who actually knew
                            him here in Virginia Beach. He was not a member of anything, and in
                            fact didn't know about Theosophy or anything esoteric until he began
                            answering questions about such matters in his "readings." He almost
                            never remembered anything he said in trance so they had to have a
                            stenographer take it all down, and he read what he'd said afterwards
                            along with everybody else. He was a simple Christian while awake and
                            never joined anything except the local Presbyterian Church here. His
                            father was a difficult man whom Edgar didn't get along with very
                            well, but he also was not a member of any brotherhood or anything and
                            had nothing to do with Edgar Cayce's work most of his life. > > As to
                            what you don't resonate with in the Cayce Readings, well there's a
                            lot that may be criticized in many ways. I don't know what you've
                            read from them. > > Starman>
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                          • Durward Starman
                            ******* Why do you connect this to the planet Mars? I connect the trance state to Saturn, as it s a reversion to the state of consciousness of Ancient Saturn.
                            Message 13 of 18 , Jul 11, 2008
                              ******* Why do you connect this to the planet Mars? I connect the trance state to Saturn, as it's a reversion to the state of consciousness of Ancient Saturn.

                              -starman

                              www.DrStarman.com




                              To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
                              From: carynlouise24@...
                              Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 08:19:09 +0000
                              Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce


                              Interesting reactions – Well it is interesting Mars is the
                              reincarnation of the Old Moon. Explains the `trance' state.

                              One thing in life which I cannot stand is when people say `blessings'
                              or `God bless you' – like they have this authority to tell God who to
                              bless who not to bless!

                              Well back to Billy … then

                              --- In steiner@yahoogroups .com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@. ..> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > *******Well, I'm sorry but I have to tell you that some of your
                              information is woefully inaccurate! You could verify this by doing a
                              search online or reading a few books about the Cayce Readings. I'd
                              recommend reading a biography of the man first, such as "There Is A
                              River" by Tom Sugrue, then look through whatever books of excerpts
                              from his psychic readings interest you, like Edgar Cayce on Atlantis,
                              Edgar Cayce on Jesus and His Church, etc. You'll find the information
                              quite similar to Theosophy and anthroposophy, frequently identical.
                              >
                              > The objection of Rittlemeyer' s was about people claiming to be
                              an authority because of who they supposedly were in another life.
                              This has nothing to do with telling what other peoples' past lives
                              were--- which of course Dr. Steiner also did, so Rittlemeyer' s
                              criticiism about "claiming authority" on the basis of previous
                              incarnations couldn't possibly include. He meant saying 'Well, I was
                              so-and-so in a past life and so you should listen to me' (as one poor
                              soul currently does who claims to have been Cayce himself, while
                              producing no evidence of any abilities in this life). Telling people
                              they should study music because they have an unrealized musical gift
                              due to having been a musician in ancient Greece, as the Cayce
                              Readings might do--- well, that's a completely different thing than
                              what Rittlemeyer was talking about, clearly. Dr. Steiner also would
                              identify learning disabilities in children as coming from past lives
                              and use this knowledge in treatment.
                              >
                              > Also, the Readings did not identify Cayce as having been
                              Pythagoras. He did say that in a past life he was an Egyptian
                              initiate unknown to history named Ra Ta, whose memory later became
                              mixed in with the mythological Ra. But he didn't claim people should
                              listen to him because he was that priest in the time of the building
                              of the pyramids. In fact, Cayce didn't ask people to listen to him at
                              all, as he was not a teacher like Steiner. He was a freakish case of
                              an ordinary-seeming man who, because of his past lives, could go into
                              a trance state and connect with the same sources as Blavatsky and
                              Steiner. In his trances, he mainly was asked medical questions about
                              people who were sick. Other stuff was secondary to him and he wasn't
                              sure how much to trust it himself.
                              >
                              > -starmanwww. DrStarman. com
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > To: steiner@...: carynlouise24@ ...: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:51:19
                              +0000Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > The Edgar Cayce's I have read are:The Life Story of JesusThe Origin
                              and Destiny of ManRevelationMany Happy Returns My thoughts are:In
                              Friedrich Rittelmeyer' s `RUDOLF STEINER ENTERS MY LIFE' Friedrich
                              writes:`His (Rudolf Steiner) attitude in the Krishnamurti affair
                              shows that he regarded it as the greatest occult sin to claim
                              authority for anyone on the ground of previous incarnations. In the
                              age of the "Consciousness Soul" everyone must appeal with his
                              teaching simply and solely to men's own objective sense of truth, and
                              convince them purely on the basis of reason'.Edgar Cayce in an
                              unconscious state claimed authority for person's previous
                              incarnations and this should be a reason for concern. For instance;
                              say someone like Edgar Cayce had to say to me `you were Mickey Mouse
                              in your previous incarnation' – if I was naïve enough to believe this
                              (because I was seeking the fundamental question of life `who am I') I
                              would spend the rest of my life prancing around thinking to myself `I
                              am Mickey Mouse' and further begin to act, take on the role of,
                              Mickey Mouse - only to find when I pass through the portals of death
                              I was actually Donald Duck in a previous incarnation and thus wasted
                              a whole life in misconception. The age old wisdom comes to mind `Know
                              Thyself' through yourself being yourself.Another factor; Edgar Cayce
                              has claimed himself to be the great ancient leader Ra and the great
                              mathematician Pythagoras in previous lifetimes.As far as I know not
                              even Rudolf Steiner would claim to ascertain who he was in previous
                              lifetimes in such an open manner; and further the true understanding
                              of reincarnation of Initiates is not truly understood by the
                              uninitiated. At this point I would like to say; Stephen Hale is
                              greatly respected and (in my view) his investigations into the Karmic
                              relationships between people is well thought through, done in a very
                              concise manner and most importantly in a conscious manner. These
                              investigations, on people who have already passed through the
                              portals, namely Rudolf Steiner himself, directly proves the above
                              writing by Friedrich Rittelmeyer on Rudolf Steiner's view on previous
                              incarnations are done with an objective sense of truth based on
                              knowledge and reason and is a gift invaluable to anthroposophy. I have
                              spent years pondering Edgar Cayce and it is not without undue
                              considerations I put this forward.--- In steiner@yahoogroups .com,
                              Durward Starman <DrStarman@> wrote:>> > > > To: steiner@:
                              Cheeseandsalsa@ : Mon, 7 Jul 2008 13:32:21 -0400Subject: Re: [steiner]
                              Edgar Cayce> > > > Barbara Handclow who isn't an anthro said that
                              Cayce is a member and his father of the masons. She wrote that they
                              were of the dark occult brotherhood. ..I personally do not resonate
                              with what he brought to us. > I do agree - a balance is always good
                              in communications. Any thoughts ... I wonder what Rudolf Steiner would
                              have to say on Edgar Cayce?> > > 1> > .> *******> > > > > > Well, in
                              this particular case I can say flatly that the lady is mistaken.
                              Neither Cayce nor his father were Masons, I know that from personal
                              study and contact with his family and many people who actually knew
                              him here in Virginia Beach. He was not a member of anything, and in
                              fact didn't know about Theosophy or anything esoteric until he began
                              answering questions about such matters in his "readings." He almost
                              never remembered anything he said in trance so they had to have a
                              stenographer take it all down, and he read what he'd said afterwards
                              along with everybody else. He was a simple Christian while awake and
                              never joined anything except the local Presbyterian Church here. His
                              father was a difficult man whom Edgar didn't get along with very
                              well, but he also was not a member of any brotherhood or anything and
                              had nothing to do with Edgar Cayce's work most of his life. > > As to
                              what you don't resonate with in the Cayce Readings, well there's a
                              lot that may be criticized in many ways. I don't know what you've
                              read from them. > > Starman>
                              ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _> It's a
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                            • carynlouise24
                              I trace it to the Old Moon stage of clairvoyance for specific corresponding reasons. Arhimanic and his sidekick the untamed Luciferic. We understand during
                              Message 14 of 18 , Jul 14, 2008
                                I trace it to the Old Moon stage of clairvoyance for specific
                                corresponding reasons. Arhimanic and his sidekick the untamed
                                Luciferic. We understand during the Old Moon period the astral body
                                was in development and the mineral was not yet included in the human
                                body, this was a predominately Luciferic stage.

                                In Rudolf Steiner's `Polarities in the Evolution of Mankind' eleven
                                lectures given to members of the Anthroposophical Society in
                                Stuttgart 5 March to 22 November 1920 pg 108 – we read

                                `The Jesuit literature on the material world is much more brilliantly
                                written than the works of many others writers on the subject today.
                                Father Erich Wasmann's work on ants, for example, is really good, you
                                will gain more from reading it than from the pedantic, uninspired
                                writings of other scientists. Many more examples could be given.

                                The (work of the) Jesuits would be excellent if they confined
                                themselves to the material world; it is a deliberate aim (of the
                                Jesuits) to use their description of the material world to encourage
                                people to associate knowledge with the materialistic aspect of the
                                physical world only.

                                The intention is to pretend to human minds that the methods used to
                                gain knowledge cannot be used to investigate the supersensible
                                world. In ancient times Lucifer-dominated individuals suggested that
                                human beings would gain mastery of the world if they made use of
                                ancient divine knowledge, yet evolution had already gone beyond this
                                point.

                                Now we have late followers of those people from post-primeval times
                                pretending to the world that it is not possible to extend knowledge
                                to the supersensible sphere and that knowledge cannot go beyond the
                                sense-perceptible world. In those early times the intention had been
                                to drug people with supersensible knowledge.

                                Now human beings of the same ilk want to use all possible means to
                                push humanity into the physical world; they want human beings stuck
                                in that world and grasp the supersensible world only with the
                                nebulous impulse of faith.

                                In post-primeval times the aim had been to inundate humankind with an
                                excess of supersensible knowledge. Today those late followers want
                                human beings to have less than the right amount of knowledge in this
                                sphere. Past intent was to provide supersensible knowledge that was
                                no longer appropriate. Present intent is to let people have only
                                sense-bound knowledge, making the supersensible world an area where
                                every individual may hold whatever views he or she likes.

                                What would be the outcome if the group of people to whom we are
                                referring were to achieve some kind of victory? These are the people
                                who deliberately make a sharp distinction between knowledge and
                                belief. There are of course large numbers of easily led people who
                                come across the diatribe on the `clear distinction between faith and
                                knowledge' and repeat it; they merely repeat it.

                                What is all this about? The aim is to do the opposite of what those
                                individual in post-primeval times did in their way. In the old days
                                the intention was to prevent humanity from descending completely and
                                taking up its mission on earth. Today the intention is to keep
                                people tied to that mission on earth to prevent their further
                                development, for which the earth would provide the basis. The very
                                people who are now supporting materialism call
                                themselves `spiritualists', or priests of some faith or other,
                                representatives of the supersensible world.

                                In those ancient times the people offering a life in the spirit that
                                was no longer justifiable called themselves materialists. They did
                                so from the point of view which I have characterized. Today a large
                                number of people who really wish to keep humanity bound to the
                                material world call themselves representatives of the spiritual
                                world.'

                                Page 50

                                Think of all the efforts we go to in spiritual science working
                                towards anthroposophy to form sufficiently clear ideas; for
                                instances, as to how far the things we become aware of in human
                                minds, in the form of dreams, may or may not be reflecting the
                                truth. As human beings we cannot immediately distinguish truth from
                                falsehood when something appears in the course of a dream. The same
                                state of mind arises for a congregation when they are told lies by
                                people who know those lies will be believed. The soul is brought to
                                a state, a mood, by those lies where it becomes the willing tool of
                                those desiring power. It is easiest to get people into your power by
                                planting illusions in their unsuspecting minds'.




                                --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > ******* Why do you connect this to the planet Mars? I connect the
                                trance state to Saturn, as it's a reversion to the state of
                                consciousness of Ancient Saturn.
                                > -starman
                                > www.DrStarman.com
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > To: steiner@...: carynlouise24@...: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 08:19:09
                                +0000Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Interesting reactions – Well it is interesting Mars is the
                                reincarnation of the Old Moon. Explains the `trance' state.One thing
                                in life which I cannot stand is when people say `blessings' or `God
                                bless you' – like they have this authority to tell God who to bless
                                who not to bless!Well back to Billy … then --- In
                                steiner@yahoogroups.com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@> wrote:>> >
                                *******Well, I'm sorry but I have to tell you that some of your
                                information is woefully inaccurate! You could verify this by doing a
                                search online or reading a few books about the Cayce Readings. I'd
                                recommend reading a biography of the man first, such as "There Is A
                                River" by Tom Sugrue, then look through whatever books of excerpts
                                from his psychic readings interest you, like Edgar Cayce on Atlantis,
                                Edgar Cayce on Jesus and His Church, etc. You'll find the information
                                quite similar to Theosophy and anthroposophy, frequently identical.>
                                > The objection of Rittlemeyer's was about people claiming to be an
                                authority because of who they supposedly were in another life. This
                                has nothing to do with telling what other peoples' past lives were---
                                which of course Dr. Steiner also did, so Rittlemeyer's criticiism
                                about "claiming authority" on the basis of previous incarnations
                                couldn't possibly include. He meant saying 'Well, I was so-and-so in
                                a past life and so you should listen to me' (as one poor soul
                                currently does who claims to have been Cayce himself, while producing
                                no evidence of any abilities in this life). Telling people they
                                should study music because they have an unrealized musical gift due
                                to having been a musician in ancient Greece, as the Cayce Readings
                                might do--- well, that's a completely different thing than what
                                Rittlemeyer was talking about, clearly. Dr. Steiner also would
                                identify learning disabilities in children as coming from past lives
                                and use this knowledge in treatment.> > Also, the Readings did not
                                identify Cayce as having been Pythagoras. He did say that in a past
                                life he was an Egyptian initiate unknown to history named Ra Ta,
                                whose memory later became mixed in with the mythological Ra. But he
                                didn't claim people should listen to him because he was that priest
                                in the time of the building of the pyramids. In fact, Cayce didn't
                                ask people to listen to him at all, as he was not a teacher like
                                Steiner. He was a freakish case of an ordinary-seeming man who,
                                because of his past lives, could go into a trance state and connect
                                with the same sources as Blavatsky and Steiner. In his trances, he
                                mainly was asked medical questions about people who were sick. Other
                                stuff was secondary to him and he wasn't sure how much to trust it
                                himself.> > -starmanwww.DrStarman.com> > > > To: steiner@:
                                carynlouise24@: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:51:19 +0000Subject: [steiner] Re:
                                Edgar Cayce> > > > > The Edgar Cayce's I have read are:The Life Story
                                of JesusThe Origin and Destiny of ManRevelationMany Happy Returns My
                                thoughts are:In Friedrich Rittelmeyer's `RUDOLF STEINER ENTERS MY
                                LIFE' Friedrich writes:`His (Rudolf Steiner) attitude in the
                                Krishnamurti affair shows that he regarded it as the greatest occult
                                sin to claim authority for anyone on the ground of previous
                                incarnations. In the age of the "Consciousness Soul" everyone must
                                appeal with his teaching simply and solely to men's own objective
                                sense of truth, and convince them purely on the basis of
                                reason'.Edgar Cayce in an unconscious state claimed authority for
                                person's previous incarnations and this should be a reason for
                                concern. For instance; say someone like Edgar Cayce had to say to me
                                `you were Mickey Mouse in your previous incarnation' – if I was naïve
                                enough to believe this (because I was seeking the fundamental
                                question of life `who am I') I would spend the rest of my life
                                prancing around thinking to myself `I am Mickey Mouse' and further
                                begin to act, take on the role of, Mickey Mouse - only to find when I
                                pass through the portals of death I was actually Donald Duck in a
                                previous incarnation and thus wasted a whole life in
                                misconception.The age old wisdom comes to mind `Know Thyself' through
                                yourself being yourself.Another factor; Edgar Cayce has claimed
                                himself to be the great ancient leader Ra and the great mathematician
                                Pythagoras in previous lifetimes.As far as I know not even Rudolf
                                Steiner would claim to ascertain who he was in previous lifetimes in
                                such an open manner; and further the true understanding of
                                reincarnation of Initiates is not truly understood by the
                                uninitiated.At this point I would like to say; Stephen Hale is
                                greatly respected and (in my view) his investigations into the Karmic
                                relationships between people is well thought through, done in a very
                                concise manner and most importantly in a conscious manner. These
                                investigations, on people who have already passed through the
                                portals, namely Rudolf Steiner himself, directly proves the above
                                writing by Friedrich Rittelmeyer on Rudolf Steiner's view on previous
                                incarnations are done with an objective sense of truth based on
                                knowledge and reason and is a gift invaluable to anthroposophy.I have
                                spent years pondering Edgar Cayce and it is not without undue
                                considerations I put this forward.--- In steiner@yahoogroups.com,
                                Durward Starman <DrStarman@> wrote:>> > > > To: steiner@:
                                Cheeseandsalsa@: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 13:32:21 -0400Subject: Re: [steiner]
                                Edgar Cayce> > > > Barbara Handclow who isn't an anthro said that
                                Cayce is a member and his father of the masons. She wrote that they
                                were of the dark occult brotherhood...I personally do not resonate
                                with what he brought to us. > I do agree - a balance is always good
                                in communications.Any thoughts ... I wonder what Rudolf Steiner would
                                have to say on Edgar Cayce?> > > 1> > .> *******> > > > > > Well, in
                                this particular case I can say flatly that the lady is mistaken.
                                Neither Cayce nor his father were Masons, I know that from personal
                                study and contact with his family and many people who actually knew
                                him here in Virginia Beach. He was not a member of anything, and in
                                fact didn't know about Theosophy or anything esoteric until he began
                                answering questions about such matters in his "readings." He almost
                                never remembered anything he said in trance so they had to have a
                                stenographer take it all down, and he read what he'd said afterwards
                                along with everybody else. He was a simple Christian while awake and
                                never joined anything except the local Presbyterian Church here. His
                                father was a difficult man whom Edgar didn't get along with very
                                well, but he also was not a member of any brotherhood or anything and
                                had nothing to do with Edgar Cayce's work most of his life. > > As to
                                what you don't resonate with in the Cayce Readings, well there's a
                                lot that may be criticized in many ways. I don't know what you've
                                read from them. > > Starman>
                                __________________________________________________________> It's a
                                talkathon – but it's not just talk.> http://www.imtalkathon.com/?
                                source=EML_WLH_Talkathon_JustTalk> > > > > > >
                                __________________________________________________________> Making
                                the world a better place one message at a time.>
                                http://www.imtalkathon.com/?source=EML_WLH_Talkathon_BetterPlace>
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
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