Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [steiner] Edgar Cayce

Expand Messages
  • Cheeseandsalsa@aol.com
    Barbara Handclow who isn t an anthro said that Cayce is a member and his father of the masons. She wrote that they were of the dark occult brotherhood...I
    Message 1 of 18 , Jul 7, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      Barbara Handclow who isn't an anthro said that Cayce is a member and his father of the masons. She wrote that they were of the dark occult brotherhood...I personally do not resonate with what he brought to us.
       
      In a message dated 7/4/2008 5:25:14 A.M. Central Daylight Time, carynlouise24@... writes:

      Hi all.

      Starman wrote:
      'But then, several other online groups suffer from TOO
      MUCH "communication"

      I do agree - a balance is always good in communications.

      Any thoughts ... I wonder what Rudolf Steiner would have to say on
      Edgar Cayce?





      Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.
    • Durward Starman
      To: steiner@yahoogroups.comFrom: Cheeseandsalsa@aol.comDate: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 13:32:21 -0400Subject: Re: [steiner] Edgar Cayce Barbara Handclow who isn t an
      Message 2 of 18 , Jul 7, 2008
      • 0 Attachment



        To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
        From: Cheeseandsalsa@...
        Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 13:32:21 -0400
        Subject: Re: [steiner] Edgar Cayce

        Barbara Handclow who isn't an anthro said that Cayce is a member and his father of the masons. She wrote that they were of the dark occult brotherhood. ..I personally do not resonate with what he brought to us.
         

        I do agree - a balance is always good in communications.

        Any thoughts ... I wonder what Rudolf Steiner would have to say on
        Edgar Cayce?
         

         1

         

        .

        *******Well, in this particular case I can say flatly that the lady is mistaken. Neither Cayce nor his father were Masons, I know that from personal study and contact with his family and many people who actually knew him here in Virginia Beach. He was not a member of anything, and in fact didn't know about Theosophy or anything esoteric until he began answering questions about such matters in his "readings." He almost never remembered anything he said in trance so they had to have a stenographer take it all down, and he read what he'd said afterwards along with everybody else.  He was a simple Christian while awake and never joined anything except the local Presbyterian Church here. His father was a difficult man whom Edgar didn't get along with very well, but he also was not a member of any brotherhood or anything and had nothing to do with Edgar Cayce's work most of his life.
         
           As to what you don't resonate with in the Cayce Readings, well there's a lot that may be criticized in many ways. I don't know what you've read from them.
         
        Starman


        It’s a talkathon – but it’s not just talk. Check out the i’m Talkathon.
      • carynlouise24
        The Edgar Cayce s I have read are: The Life Story of Jesus The Origin and Destiny of Man Revelation Many Happy Returns My thoughts are: In Friedrich
        Message 3 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          The Edgar Cayce's I have read are:

          The Life Story of Jesus
          The Origin and Destiny of Man
          Revelation
          Many Happy Returns

          My thoughts are:

          In Friedrich Rittelmeyer's `RUDOLF STEINER ENTERS MY LIFE' Friedrich
          writes:

          `His (Rudolf Steiner) attitude in the Krishnamurti affair shows that
          he regarded it as the greatest occult sin to claim authority for
          anyone on the ground of previous incarnations. In the age of
          the "Consciousness Soul" everyone must appeal with his teaching
          simply and solely to men's own objective sense of truth, and convince
          them purely on the basis of reason'.

          Edgar Cayce in an unconscious state claimed authority for person's
          previous incarnations and this should be a reason for concern.

          For instance; say someone like Edgar Cayce had to say to me `you were
          Mickey Mouse in your previous incarnation' – if I was naïve enough to
          believe this (because I was seeking the fundamental question of
          life `who am I') I would spend the rest of my life prancing around
          thinking to myself `I am Mickey Mouse' and further begin to act, take
          on the role of, Mickey Mouse - only to find when I pass through the
          portals of death I was actually Donald Duck in a previous incarnation
          and thus wasted a whole life in misconception.

          The age old wisdom comes to mind `Know Thyself' through yourself
          being yourself.

          Another factor; Edgar Cayce has claimed himself to be the great
          ancient leader Ra and the great mathematician Pythagoras in previous
          lifetimes.

          As far as I know not even Rudolf Steiner would claim to ascertain who
          he was in previous lifetimes in such an open manner; and further the
          true understanding of reincarnation of Initiates is not truly
          understood by the uninitiated.

          At this point I would like to say; Stephen Hale is greatly respected
          and (in my view) his investigations into the Karmic relationships
          between people is well thought through, done in a very concise manner
          and most importantly in a conscious manner. These investigations, on
          people who have already passed through the portals, namely Rudolf
          Steiner himself, directly proves the above writing by Friedrich
          Rittelmeyer on Rudolf Steiner's view on previous incarnations are
          done with an objective sense of truth based on knowledge and reason
          and is a gift invaluable to anthroposophy.

          I have spent years pondering Edgar Cayce and it is not without undue
          considerations I put this forward.


          --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > To: steiner@...: Cheeseandsalsa@...: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 13:32:21 -
          0400Subject: Re: [steiner] Edgar Cayce
          >
          >
          >
          > Barbara Handclow who isn't an anthro said that Cayce is a member
          and his father of the masons. She wrote that they were of the dark
          occult brotherhood...I personally do not resonate with what he
          brought to us.
          > I do agree - a balance is always good in communications.Any
          thoughts ... I wonder what Rudolf Steiner would have to say on Edgar
          Cayce?
          >
          >
          > 1
          >
          > .
          > *******
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Well, in this particular case I can say flatly that the lady is
          mistaken. Neither Cayce nor his father were Masons, I know that from
          personal study and contact with his family and many people who
          actually knew him here in Virginia Beach. He was not a member of
          anything, and in fact didn't know about Theosophy or anything
          esoteric until he began answering questions about such matters in
          his "readings." He almost never remembered anything he said in trance
          so they had to have a stenographer take it all down, and he read what
          he'd said afterwards along with everybody else. He was a simple
          Christian while awake and never joined anything except the local
          Presbyterian Church here. His father was a difficult man whom Edgar
          didn't get along with very well, but he also was not a member of any
          brotherhood or anything and had nothing to do with Edgar Cayce's work
          most of his life.
          >
          > As to what you don't resonate with in the Cayce Readings, well
          there's a lot that may be criticized in many ways. I don't know what
          you've read from them.
          >
          > Starman
          > _________________________________________________________________
          > It's a talkathon – but it's not just talk.
          > http://www.imtalkathon.com/?source=EML_WLH_Talkathon_JustTalk
          >
        • Cheeseandsalsa@aol.com
          Thank you for that, it was very interesting. I mentioned what Handclow said about Cayce to an friend today, who has been a long time anthroposophist, and he
          Message 4 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            Thank you for that, it was very interesting. I mentioned what Handclow said about Cayce to an friend today, who has been a long time anthroposophist, and he doesn't believe Cayce was a member of the dark occult. For what its worth. Thank you for that post it was a good one. Chantel




            Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com!
          • Durward Starman
            *******Well, I m sorry but I have to tell you that some of your information is woefully inaccurate! You could verify this by doing a search online or reading a
            Message 5 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              *******Well, I'm sorry but I have to tell you that some of your information is woefully inaccurate! You could verify this by doing a search online or reading a few books about the Cayce Readings. I'd recommend reading a biography of the man first, such as "There Is A River" by Tom Sugrue, then look through whatever books of excerpts from his psychic readings interest you, like Edgar Cayce on Atlantis, Edgar Cayce on Jesus and His Church, etc. You'll find the information quite similar to Theosophy and anthroposophy, frequently identical.
               
                 The objection of Rittlemeyer's was about people claiming to be an authority because of who they supposedly were in another life. This has nothing to do with telling what other peoples' past lives were--- which of course Dr. Steiner also did, so Rittlemeyer's criticiism about "claiming authority" on the basis of previous incarnations couldn't possibly include. He meant saying 'Well, I was so-and-so in a past life and so you should listen to me' (as one poor soul currently does who claims to have been Cayce himself, while producing no evidence of any abilities in this life).  Telling people they should study music because they have an unrealized musical gift due to having been a musician in ancient Greece, as the Cayce Readings might do--- well, that's a completely different thing than what Rittlemeyer was talking about, clearly. Dr. Steiner also would identify learning disabilities in children as coming from past lives and use this knowledge in treatment.
               
                  Also, the Readings did not identify Cayce as having been Pythagoras. He did say that in a past life he was an Egyptian initiate unknown to history named Ra Ta, whose memory later became mixed in with the mythological Ra. But he didn't claim people should listen to him because he was that priest in the time of the building of the pyramids. In fact, Cayce didn't ask people to listen to him at all, as he was not a teacher like Steiner. He was a freakish case of an ordinary-seeming man who, because of his past lives, could go into a trance state and connect with the same sources as Blavatsky and Steiner. In his trances, he mainly was asked medical questions about people who were sick. Other stuff was secondary to him and he wasn't sure how much to trust it himself.
               
              -starman

              www.DrStarman.com




              To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
              From: carynlouise24@...
              Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:51:19 +0000
              Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce


              The Edgar Cayce's I have read are:

              The Life Story of Jesus
              The Origin and Destiny of Man
              Revelation
              Many Happy Returns

              My thoughts are:

              In Friedrich Rittelmeyer' s `RUDOLF STEINER ENTERS MY LIFE' Friedrich
              writes:

              `His (Rudolf Steiner) attitude in the Krishnamurti affair shows that
              he regarded it as the greatest occult sin to claim authority for
              anyone on the ground of previous incarnations. In the age of
              the "Consciousness Soul" everyone must appeal with his teaching
              simply and solely to men's own objective sense of truth, and convince
              them purely on the basis of reason'.

              Edgar Cayce in an unconscious state claimed authority for person's
              previous incarnations and this should be a reason for concern.

              For instance; say someone like Edgar Cayce had to say to me `you were
              Mickey Mouse in your previous incarnation' – if I was naïve enough to
              believe this (because I was seeking the fundamental question of
              life `who am I') I would spend the rest of my life prancing around
              thinking to myself `I am Mickey Mouse' and further begin to act, take
              on the role of, Mickey Mouse - only to find when I pass through the
              portals of death I was actually Donald Duck in a previous incarnation
              and thus wasted a whole life in misconception.

              The age old wisdom comes to mind `Know Thyself' through yourself
              being yourself.

              Another factor; Edgar Cayce has claimed himself to be the great
              ancient leader Ra and the great mathematician Pythagoras in previous
              lifetimes.

              As far as I know not even Rudolf Steiner would claim to ascertain who
              he was in previous lifetimes in such an open manner; and further the
              true understanding of reincarnation of Initiates is not truly
              understood by the uninitiated.

              At this point I would like to say; Stephen Hale is greatly respected
              and (in my view) his investigations into the Karmic relationships
              between people is well thought through, done in a very concise manner
              and most importantly in a conscious manner. These investigations, on
              people who have already passed through the portals, namely Rudolf
              Steiner himself, directly proves the above writing by Friedrich
              Rittelmeyer on Rudolf Steiner's view on previous incarnations are
              done with an objective sense of truth based on knowledge and reason
              and is a gift invaluable to anthroposophy.

              I have spent years pondering Edgar Cayce and it is not without undue
              considerations I put this forward.

              --- In steiner@yahoogroups .com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@. ..> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > To: steiner@...: Cheeseandsalsa@ ...: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 13:32:21 -
              0400Subject: Re: [steiner] Edgar Cayce
              >
              >
              >
              > Barbara Handclow who isn't an anthro said that Cayce is a member
              and his father of the masons. She wrote that they were of the dark
              occult brotherhood. ..I personally do not resonate with what he
              brought to us.
              > I do agree - a balance is always good in communications. Any
              thoughts ... I wonder what Rudolf Steiner would have to say on Edgar
              Cayce?
              >
              >
              > 1
              >
              > .
              > *******
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Well, in this particular case I can say flatly that the lady is
              mistaken. Neither Cayce nor his father were Masons, I know that from
              personal study and contact with his family and many people who
              actually knew him here in Virginia Beach. He was not a member of
              anything, and in fact didn't know about Theosophy or anything
              esoteric until he began answering questions about such matters in
              his "readings." He almost never remembered anything he said in trance
              so they had to have a stenographer take it all down, and he read what
              he'd said afterwards along with everybody else. He was a simple
              Christian while awake and never joined anything except the local
              Presbyterian Church here. His father was a difficult man whom Edgar
              didn't get along with very well, but he also was not a member of any
              brotherhood or anything and had nothing to do with Edgar Cayce's work
              most of his life.
              >
              > As to what you don't resonate with in the Cayce Readings, well
              there's a lot that may be criticized in many ways. I don't know what
              you've read from them.
              >
              > Starman
              > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
              > It's a talkathon – but it's not just talk.
              > http://www.imtalkat hon.com/? source=EML_ WLH_Talkathon_ JustTalk
              >




              Making the world a better place one message at a time. Check out the i’m Talkathon.
            • Mathew Morrell
              ... Steven Hale is a 3rd rate charlatan and moral retrograde. I spit on his name and anyone who mentions it in this forum.
              Message 6 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                Caryne Louise said:

                > At this point I would like to say; Stephen Hale is greatly respected
                > and (in my view) his investigations into the Karmic relationships
                > between people is well thought through...

                Steven Hale is a 3rd rate charlatan and moral retrograde. I spit on
                his name and anyone who mentions it in this forum.
              • Durward Starman
                *******Who is he? I ve never heard of him. -starmanwww.DrStarman.com To: steiner@yahoogroups.comFrom: tma4cbt@juno.comDate: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 20:37:24
                Message 7 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  *******Who is he? I've never heard of him.
                   
                  -starman

                  www.DrStarman.com




                  To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
                  From: tma4cbt@...
                  Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 20:37:24 +0000
                  Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce


                  Caryne Louise said:

                  > At this point I would like to say; Stephen Hale is greatly respected
                  > and (in my view) his investigations into the Karmic relationships
                  > between people is well thought through...

                  Steven Hale is a 3rd rate charlatan and moral retrograde. I spit on
                  his name and anyone who mentions it in this forum.




                  Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. Get started.
                • John Massengale
                  ... I m not interested in spitting or being told what to say here. I will try signing myself off. If that doesn t work, please sign me off. thanks
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment

                    On Jul 10, 2008, at 4:37 PM, Mathew Morrell wrote:

                    I spit on 
                    his name and anyone who mentions it in this forum. 

                    I'm not interested in spitting or being told what to say here.

                    I will try signing myself off. If that doesn't work, please sign me off.

                    thanks
                  • Mathew Morrell
                    ... Steven Hale is that psycho pomp you removed from this forum a couple years ago, who joined this forum, it seems, for no other purpose than to clog it up,
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment


                      --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > *******Who is he? I've never heard of him.
                      >

                      Steven Hale is that psycho pomp you removed from this forum a couple years ago, who joined this forum, it seems, for no other purpose than to clog it up, undermine, and manipulate people like me with his overbearing, ego-centric personality.

                      According to my sources, Steve Hale recently accused Starman of being in the mold of the Aryan Nation.  That's just one things he's accused Starman and myself of being.  There are many more lies and falsehoods that pour from this person's mouth.  Mr Hale has made a profession of creating devils and unleashing them through anthroposophical discussion forums.

                      Mathew  

                    • Durward Starman
                      *******Thank you, Matthew. I d forgotten all about this rather unpleasant fellow. Just looked up his rantings when he was briefly a member of this list. No
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        *******Thank you, Matthew. I'd forgotten all about this rather unpleasant fellow. Just looked up his rantings when he was briefly a member of this list. No wonder you reacted so.
                         
                            I see no evidence of any singular insight into peoples' past lives, or anything esoteric or spiritual for that matter, in this person. He appears to be just another egotist who is out to twist anthroposophy into something that supports his own opinions, rather similar to the fellow I mentioned who says he's the reincarnation of Edgar Cayce. They're a dime a dozen online here.
                         
                           I would not place much faith in anything he had to say about Edgar Cayce, or Rudolf Steiner, for that matter. He might have something worthwhile to say, but I would say one would have to critically examine every statement such a person makes for falsehoods.
                         
                        -starman

                        www.DrStarman.com




                        To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
                        From: tma4cbt@...
                        Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 21:35:05 +0000
                        Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce



                        --- In steiner@yahoogroups .com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@.. .> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > *******Who is he? I've never heard of him.
                        >

                        Steven Hale is that psycho pomp you removed from this forum a couple years ago, who joined this forum, it seems, for no other purpose than to clog it up, undermine, and manipulate people like me with his overbearing, ego-centric personality.

                        According to my sources, Steve Hale recently accused Starman of being in the mold of the Aryan Nation.  That's just one things he's accused Starman and myself of being.  There are many more lies and falsehoods that pour from this person's mouth.  Mr Hale has made a profession of creating devils and unleashing them through anthroposophical discussion forums.

                        Mathew  




                        Making the world a better place one message at a time. Check out the i'm Talkathon.
                      • happypick2000
                        ... I vaguely recall someone of that name although not the particulars. Unfortunately, this world seems to be full of unsavory types, and the best I can say in
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
                        • 0 Attachment
                          --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "Mathew Morrell" <tma4cbt@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > *******Who is he? I've never heard of him.
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Steven Hale is that psycho pomp you removed from this forum a couple
                          > years ago, who joined this forum, it seems, for no other purpose than to
                          > clog it up, undermine, and manipulate people like me with his
                          > overbearing, ego-centric personality.
                          >
                          > According to my sources, Steve Hale recently accused Starman of being in
                          > the mold of the Aryan Nation. That's just one things he's
                          > accused Starman and myself of being. There are many more lies and
                          > falsehoods that pour from this person's mouth. Mr Hale has made a
                          > profession of creating devils and unleashing them through
                          > anthroposophical discussion forums.
                          >
                          > Mathew
                          >
                          I vaguely recall someone of that name although not the particulars.
                          Unfortunately, this world seems to be full of unsavory types, and the
                          best I can say in such cases is to the effect that they will be held
                          responsible for any and all actions of theirs, and in a well deserved
                          way. I shudder to ponder such fates and can only try to overlook
                          harmful events and people while learning from them in the way Steiner
                          mentions coming across the dead dog with such beautiful teeth, but I
                          fail far too often.

                          Blessings,

                          Sheila
                        • Durward Starman
                          *******Sorry for Matthew s temper. But in any gathering of people an angry outburst will happen now and then. It s not a reason for leaving a group. I wonder,
                          Message 12 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
                          • 0 Attachment
                            *******Sorry for Matthew's temper. But in any gathering of people an angry outburst will happen now and then. It's not a reason for leaving a group.
                             
                            I wonder, do you belong to an anthroposophical study group? Would you do the same there?

                            -starman

                            www.DrStarman.com




                            To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
                            From: john@...
                            Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 17:34:15 -0400
                            Subject: Re: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce



                            On Jul 10, 2008, at 4:37 PM, Mathew Morrell wrote:

                            I spit on 
                            his name and anyone who mentions it in this forum. 

                            I'm not interested in spitting or being told what to say here.

                            I will try signing myself off. If that doesn't work, please sign me off.

                            thanks




                            Making the world a better place one message at a time. Check out the i'm Talkathon.
                          • carynlouise24
                            Interesting reactions – Well it is interesting Mars is the reincarnation of the Old Moon. Explains the `trance state. One thing in life which I cannot
                            Message 13 of 18 , Jul 11, 2008
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Interesting reactions – Well it is interesting Mars is the
                              reincarnation of the Old Moon. Explains the `trance' state.

                              One thing in life which I cannot stand is when people say `blessings'
                              or `God bless you' – like they have this authority to tell God who to
                              bless who not to bless!

                              Well back to Billy … then



                              --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > *******Well, I'm sorry but I have to tell you that some of your
                              information is woefully inaccurate! You could verify this by doing a
                              search online or reading a few books about the Cayce Readings. I'd
                              recommend reading a biography of the man first, such as "There Is A
                              River" by Tom Sugrue, then look through whatever books of excerpts
                              from his psychic readings interest you, like Edgar Cayce on Atlantis,
                              Edgar Cayce on Jesus and His Church, etc. You'll find the information
                              quite similar to Theosophy and anthroposophy, frequently identical.
                              >
                              > The objection of Rittlemeyer's was about people claiming to be
                              an authority because of who they supposedly were in another life.
                              This has nothing to do with telling what other peoples' past lives
                              were--- which of course Dr. Steiner also did, so Rittlemeyer's
                              criticiism about "claiming authority" on the basis of previous
                              incarnations couldn't possibly include. He meant saying 'Well, I was
                              so-and-so in a past life and so you should listen to me' (as one poor
                              soul currently does who claims to have been Cayce himself, while
                              producing no evidence of any abilities in this life). Telling people
                              they should study music because they have an unrealized musical gift
                              due to having been a musician in ancient Greece, as the Cayce
                              Readings might do--- well, that's a completely different thing than
                              what Rittlemeyer was talking about, clearly. Dr. Steiner also would
                              identify learning disabilities in children as coming from past lives
                              and use this knowledge in treatment.
                              >
                              > Also, the Readings did not identify Cayce as having been
                              Pythagoras. He did say that in a past life he was an Egyptian
                              initiate unknown to history named Ra Ta, whose memory later became
                              mixed in with the mythological Ra. But he didn't claim people should
                              listen to him because he was that priest in the time of the building
                              of the pyramids. In fact, Cayce didn't ask people to listen to him at
                              all, as he was not a teacher like Steiner. He was a freakish case of
                              an ordinary-seeming man who, because of his past lives, could go into
                              a trance state and connect with the same sources as Blavatsky and
                              Steiner. In his trances, he mainly was asked medical questions about
                              people who were sick. Other stuff was secondary to him and he wasn't
                              sure how much to trust it himself.
                              >
                              > -starmanwww.DrStarman.com
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > To: steiner@...: carynlouise24@...: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:51:19
                              +0000Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > The Edgar Cayce's I have read are:The Life Story of JesusThe Origin
                              and Destiny of ManRevelationMany Happy Returns My thoughts are:In
                              Friedrich Rittelmeyer's `RUDOLF STEINER ENTERS MY LIFE' Friedrich
                              writes:`His (Rudolf Steiner) attitude in the Krishnamurti affair
                              shows that he regarded it as the greatest occult sin to claim
                              authority for anyone on the ground of previous incarnations. In the
                              age of the "Consciousness Soul" everyone must appeal with his
                              teaching simply and solely to men's own objective sense of truth, and
                              convince them purely on the basis of reason'.Edgar Cayce in an
                              unconscious state claimed authority for person's previous
                              incarnations and this should be a reason for concern. For instance;
                              say someone like Edgar Cayce had to say to me `you were Mickey Mouse
                              in your previous incarnation' – if I was naïve enough to believe this
                              (because I was seeking the fundamental question of life `who am I') I
                              would spend the rest of my life prancing around thinking to myself `I
                              am Mickey Mouse' and further begin to act, take on the role of,
                              Mickey Mouse - only to find when I pass through the portals of death
                              I was actually Donald Duck in a previous incarnation and thus wasted
                              a whole life in misconception.The age old wisdom comes to mind `Know
                              Thyself' through yourself being yourself.Another factor; Edgar Cayce
                              has claimed himself to be the great ancient leader Ra and the great
                              mathematician Pythagoras in previous lifetimes.As far as I know not
                              even Rudolf Steiner would claim to ascertain who he was in previous
                              lifetimes in such an open manner; and further the true understanding
                              of reincarnation of Initiates is not truly understood by the
                              uninitiated.At this point I would like to say; Stephen Hale is
                              greatly respected and (in my view) his investigations into the Karmic
                              relationships between people is well thought through, done in a very
                              concise manner and most importantly in a conscious manner. These
                              investigations, on people who have already passed through the
                              portals, namely Rudolf Steiner himself, directly proves the above
                              writing by Friedrich Rittelmeyer on Rudolf Steiner's view on previous
                              incarnations are done with an objective sense of truth based on
                              knowledge and reason and is a gift invaluable to anthroposophy.I have
                              spent years pondering Edgar Cayce and it is not without undue
                              considerations I put this forward.--- In steiner@yahoogroups.com,
                              Durward Starman <DrStarman@> wrote:>> > > > To: steiner@:
                              Cheeseandsalsa@: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 13:32:21 -0400Subject: Re: [steiner]
                              Edgar Cayce> > > > Barbara Handclow who isn't an anthro said that
                              Cayce is a member and his father of the masons. She wrote that they
                              were of the dark occult brotherhood...I personally do not resonate
                              with what he brought to us. > I do agree - a balance is always good
                              in communications.Any thoughts ... I wonder what Rudolf Steiner would
                              have to say on Edgar Cayce?> > > 1> > .> *******> > > > > > Well, in
                              this particular case I can say flatly that the lady is mistaken.
                              Neither Cayce nor his father were Masons, I know that from personal
                              study and contact with his family and many people who actually knew
                              him here in Virginia Beach. He was not a member of anything, and in
                              fact didn't know about Theosophy or anything esoteric until he began
                              answering questions about such matters in his "readings." He almost
                              never remembered anything he said in trance so they had to have a
                              stenographer take it all down, and he read what he'd said afterwards
                              along with everybody else. He was a simple Christian while awake and
                              never joined anything except the local Presbyterian Church here. His
                              father was a difficult man whom Edgar didn't get along with very
                              well, but he also was not a member of any brotherhood or anything and
                              had nothing to do with Edgar Cayce's work most of his life. > > As to
                              what you don't resonate with in the Cayce Readings, well there's a
                              lot that may be criticized in many ways. I don't know what you've
                              read from them. > > Starman>
                              __________________________________________________________> It's a
                              talkathon – but it's not just talk.> http://www.imtalkathon.com/?
                              source=EML_WLH_Talkathon_JustTalk>
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > _________________________________________________________________
                              > Making the world a better place one message at a time.
                              > http://www.imtalkathon.com/?source=EML_WLH_Talkathon_BetterPlace
                              >
                            • Durward Starman
                              ******* Why do you connect this to the planet Mars? I connect the trance state to Saturn, as it s a reversion to the state of consciousness of Ancient Saturn.
                              Message 14 of 18 , Jul 11, 2008
                              • 0 Attachment
                                ******* Why do you connect this to the planet Mars? I connect the trance state to Saturn, as it's a reversion to the state of consciousness of Ancient Saturn.

                                -starman

                                www.DrStarman.com




                                To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
                                From: carynlouise24@...
                                Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 08:19:09 +0000
                                Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce


                                Interesting reactions – Well it is interesting Mars is the
                                reincarnation of the Old Moon. Explains the `trance' state.

                                One thing in life which I cannot stand is when people say `blessings'
                                or `God bless you' – like they have this authority to tell God who to
                                bless who not to bless!

                                Well back to Billy … then

                                --- In steiner@yahoogroups .com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@. ..> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > *******Well, I'm sorry but I have to tell you that some of your
                                information is woefully inaccurate! You could verify this by doing a
                                search online or reading a few books about the Cayce Readings. I'd
                                recommend reading a biography of the man first, such as "There Is A
                                River" by Tom Sugrue, then look through whatever books of excerpts
                                from his psychic readings interest you, like Edgar Cayce on Atlantis,
                                Edgar Cayce on Jesus and His Church, etc. You'll find the information
                                quite similar to Theosophy and anthroposophy, frequently identical.
                                >
                                > The objection of Rittlemeyer' s was about people claiming to be
                                an authority because of who they supposedly were in another life.
                                This has nothing to do with telling what other peoples' past lives
                                were--- which of course Dr. Steiner also did, so Rittlemeyer' s
                                criticiism about "claiming authority" on the basis of previous
                                incarnations couldn't possibly include. He meant saying 'Well, I was
                                so-and-so in a past life and so you should listen to me' (as one poor
                                soul currently does who claims to have been Cayce himself, while
                                producing no evidence of any abilities in this life). Telling people
                                they should study music because they have an unrealized musical gift
                                due to having been a musician in ancient Greece, as the Cayce
                                Readings might do--- well, that's a completely different thing than
                                what Rittlemeyer was talking about, clearly. Dr. Steiner also would
                                identify learning disabilities in children as coming from past lives
                                and use this knowledge in treatment.
                                >
                                > Also, the Readings did not identify Cayce as having been
                                Pythagoras. He did say that in a past life he was an Egyptian
                                initiate unknown to history named Ra Ta, whose memory later became
                                mixed in with the mythological Ra. But he didn't claim people should
                                listen to him because he was that priest in the time of the building
                                of the pyramids. In fact, Cayce didn't ask people to listen to him at
                                all, as he was not a teacher like Steiner. He was a freakish case of
                                an ordinary-seeming man who, because of his past lives, could go into
                                a trance state and connect with the same sources as Blavatsky and
                                Steiner. In his trances, he mainly was asked medical questions about
                                people who were sick. Other stuff was secondary to him and he wasn't
                                sure how much to trust it himself.
                                >
                                > -starmanwww. DrStarman. com
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > To: steiner@...: carynlouise24@ ...: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:51:19
                                +0000Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > The Edgar Cayce's I have read are:The Life Story of JesusThe Origin
                                and Destiny of ManRevelationMany Happy Returns My thoughts are:In
                                Friedrich Rittelmeyer' s `RUDOLF STEINER ENTERS MY LIFE' Friedrich
                                writes:`His (Rudolf Steiner) attitude in the Krishnamurti affair
                                shows that he regarded it as the greatest occult sin to claim
                                authority for anyone on the ground of previous incarnations. In the
                                age of the "Consciousness Soul" everyone must appeal with his
                                teaching simply and solely to men's own objective sense of truth, and
                                convince them purely on the basis of reason'.Edgar Cayce in an
                                unconscious state claimed authority for person's previous
                                incarnations and this should be a reason for concern. For instance;
                                say someone like Edgar Cayce had to say to me `you were Mickey Mouse
                                in your previous incarnation' – if I was naïve enough to believe this
                                (because I was seeking the fundamental question of life `who am I') I
                                would spend the rest of my life prancing around thinking to myself `I
                                am Mickey Mouse' and further begin to act, take on the role of,
                                Mickey Mouse - only to find when I pass through the portals of death
                                I was actually Donald Duck in a previous incarnation and thus wasted
                                a whole life in misconception. The age old wisdom comes to mind `Know
                                Thyself' through yourself being yourself.Another factor; Edgar Cayce
                                has claimed himself to be the great ancient leader Ra and the great
                                mathematician Pythagoras in previous lifetimes.As far as I know not
                                even Rudolf Steiner would claim to ascertain who he was in previous
                                lifetimes in such an open manner; and further the true understanding
                                of reincarnation of Initiates is not truly understood by the
                                uninitiated. At this point I would like to say; Stephen Hale is
                                greatly respected and (in my view) his investigations into the Karmic
                                relationships between people is well thought through, done in a very
                                concise manner and most importantly in a conscious manner. These
                                investigations, on people who have already passed through the
                                portals, namely Rudolf Steiner himself, directly proves the above
                                writing by Friedrich Rittelmeyer on Rudolf Steiner's view on previous
                                incarnations are done with an objective sense of truth based on
                                knowledge and reason and is a gift invaluable to anthroposophy. I have
                                spent years pondering Edgar Cayce and it is not without undue
                                considerations I put this forward.--- In steiner@yahoogroups .com,
                                Durward Starman <DrStarman@> wrote:>> > > > To: steiner@:
                                Cheeseandsalsa@ : Mon, 7 Jul 2008 13:32:21 -0400Subject: Re: [steiner]
                                Edgar Cayce> > > > Barbara Handclow who isn't an anthro said that
                                Cayce is a member and his father of the masons. She wrote that they
                                were of the dark occult brotherhood. ..I personally do not resonate
                                with what he brought to us. > I do agree - a balance is always good
                                in communications. Any thoughts ... I wonder what Rudolf Steiner would
                                have to say on Edgar Cayce?> > > 1> > .> *******> > > > > > Well, in
                                this particular case I can say flatly that the lady is mistaken.
                                Neither Cayce nor his father were Masons, I know that from personal
                                study and contact with his family and many people who actually knew
                                him here in Virginia Beach. He was not a member of anything, and in
                                fact didn't know about Theosophy or anything esoteric until he began
                                answering questions about such matters in his "readings." He almost
                                never remembered anything he said in trance so they had to have a
                                stenographer take it all down, and he read what he'd said afterwards
                                along with everybody else. He was a simple Christian while awake and
                                never joined anything except the local Presbyterian Church here. His
                                father was a difficult man whom Edgar didn't get along with very
                                well, but he also was not a member of any brotherhood or anything and
                                had nothing to do with Edgar Cayce's work most of his life. > > As to
                                what you don't resonate with in the Cayce Readings, well there's a
                                lot that may be criticized in many ways. I don't know what you've
                                read from them. > > Starman>
                                ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _> It's a
                                talkathon – but it's not just talk.> http://www.imtalkat hon.com/?
                                source=EML_WLH_ Talkathon_ JustTalk>
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                > Making the world a better place one message at a time.
                                > http://www.imtalkat hon.com/? source=EML_ WLH_Talkathon_ BetterPlace
                                >




                                The i’m Talkaton. Can 30-days of conversation change the world? Find out now.
                              • carynlouise24
                                I trace it to the Old Moon stage of clairvoyance for specific corresponding reasons. Arhimanic and his sidekick the untamed Luciferic. We understand during
                                Message 15 of 18 , Jul 14, 2008
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I trace it to the Old Moon stage of clairvoyance for specific
                                  corresponding reasons. Arhimanic and his sidekick the untamed
                                  Luciferic. We understand during the Old Moon period the astral body
                                  was in development and the mineral was not yet included in the human
                                  body, this was a predominately Luciferic stage.

                                  In Rudolf Steiner's `Polarities in the Evolution of Mankind' eleven
                                  lectures given to members of the Anthroposophical Society in
                                  Stuttgart 5 March to 22 November 1920 pg 108 – we read

                                  `The Jesuit literature on the material world is much more brilliantly
                                  written than the works of many others writers on the subject today.
                                  Father Erich Wasmann's work on ants, for example, is really good, you
                                  will gain more from reading it than from the pedantic, uninspired
                                  writings of other scientists. Many more examples could be given.

                                  The (work of the) Jesuits would be excellent if they confined
                                  themselves to the material world; it is a deliberate aim (of the
                                  Jesuits) to use their description of the material world to encourage
                                  people to associate knowledge with the materialistic aspect of the
                                  physical world only.

                                  The intention is to pretend to human minds that the methods used to
                                  gain knowledge cannot be used to investigate the supersensible
                                  world. In ancient times Lucifer-dominated individuals suggested that
                                  human beings would gain mastery of the world if they made use of
                                  ancient divine knowledge, yet evolution had already gone beyond this
                                  point.

                                  Now we have late followers of those people from post-primeval times
                                  pretending to the world that it is not possible to extend knowledge
                                  to the supersensible sphere and that knowledge cannot go beyond the
                                  sense-perceptible world. In those early times the intention had been
                                  to drug people with supersensible knowledge.

                                  Now human beings of the same ilk want to use all possible means to
                                  push humanity into the physical world; they want human beings stuck
                                  in that world and grasp the supersensible world only with the
                                  nebulous impulse of faith.

                                  In post-primeval times the aim had been to inundate humankind with an
                                  excess of supersensible knowledge. Today those late followers want
                                  human beings to have less than the right amount of knowledge in this
                                  sphere. Past intent was to provide supersensible knowledge that was
                                  no longer appropriate. Present intent is to let people have only
                                  sense-bound knowledge, making the supersensible world an area where
                                  every individual may hold whatever views he or she likes.

                                  What would be the outcome if the group of people to whom we are
                                  referring were to achieve some kind of victory? These are the people
                                  who deliberately make a sharp distinction between knowledge and
                                  belief. There are of course large numbers of easily led people who
                                  come across the diatribe on the `clear distinction between faith and
                                  knowledge' and repeat it; they merely repeat it.

                                  What is all this about? The aim is to do the opposite of what those
                                  individual in post-primeval times did in their way. In the old days
                                  the intention was to prevent humanity from descending completely and
                                  taking up its mission on earth. Today the intention is to keep
                                  people tied to that mission on earth to prevent their further
                                  development, for which the earth would provide the basis. The very
                                  people who are now supporting materialism call
                                  themselves `spiritualists', or priests of some faith or other,
                                  representatives of the supersensible world.

                                  In those ancient times the people offering a life in the spirit that
                                  was no longer justifiable called themselves materialists. They did
                                  so from the point of view which I have characterized. Today a large
                                  number of people who really wish to keep humanity bound to the
                                  material world call themselves representatives of the spiritual
                                  world.'

                                  Page 50

                                  Think of all the efforts we go to in spiritual science working
                                  towards anthroposophy to form sufficiently clear ideas; for
                                  instances, as to how far the things we become aware of in human
                                  minds, in the form of dreams, may or may not be reflecting the
                                  truth. As human beings we cannot immediately distinguish truth from
                                  falsehood when something appears in the course of a dream. The same
                                  state of mind arises for a congregation when they are told lies by
                                  people who know those lies will be believed. The soul is brought to
                                  a state, a mood, by those lies where it becomes the willing tool of
                                  those desiring power. It is easiest to get people into your power by
                                  planting illusions in their unsuspecting minds'.




                                  --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ******* Why do you connect this to the planet Mars? I connect the
                                  trance state to Saturn, as it's a reversion to the state of
                                  consciousness of Ancient Saturn.
                                  > -starman
                                  > www.DrStarman.com
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > To: steiner@...: carynlouise24@...: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 08:19:09
                                  +0000Subject: [steiner] Re: Edgar Cayce
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Interesting reactions – Well it is interesting Mars is the
                                  reincarnation of the Old Moon. Explains the `trance' state.One thing
                                  in life which I cannot stand is when people say `blessings' or `God
                                  bless you' – like they have this authority to tell God who to bless
                                  who not to bless!Well back to Billy … then --- In
                                  steiner@yahoogroups.com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@> wrote:>> >
                                  *******Well, I'm sorry but I have to tell you that some of your
                                  information is woefully inaccurate! You could verify this by doing a
                                  search online or reading a few books about the Cayce Readings. I'd
                                  recommend reading a biography of the man first, such as "There Is A
                                  River" by Tom Sugrue, then look through whatever books of excerpts
                                  from his psychic readings interest you, like Edgar Cayce on Atlantis,
                                  Edgar Cayce on Jesus and His Church, etc. You'll find the information
                                  quite similar to Theosophy and anthroposophy, frequently identical.>
                                  > The objection of Rittlemeyer's was about people claiming to be an
                                  authority because of who they supposedly were in another life. This
                                  has nothing to do with telling what other peoples' past lives were---
                                  which of course Dr. Steiner also did, so Rittlemeyer's criticiism
                                  about "claiming authority" on the basis of previous incarnations
                                  couldn't possibly include. He meant saying 'Well, I was so-and-so in
                                  a past life and so you should listen to me' (as one poor soul
                                  currently does who claims to have been Cayce himself, while producing
                                  no evidence of any abilities in this life). Telling people they
                                  should study music because they have an unrealized musical gift due
                                  to having been a musician in ancient Greece, as the Cayce Readings
                                  might do--- well, that's a completely different thing than what
                                  Rittlemeyer was talking about, clearly. Dr. Steiner also would
                                  identify learning disabilities in children as coming from past lives
                                  and use this knowledge in treatment.> > Also, the Readings did not
                                  identify Cayce as having been Pythagoras. He did say that in a past
                                  life he was an Egyptian initiate unknown to history named Ra Ta,
                                  whose memory later became mixed in with the mythological Ra. But he
                                  didn't claim people should listen to him because he was that priest
                                  in the time of the building of the pyramids. In fact, Cayce didn't
                                  ask people to listen to him at all, as he was not a teacher like
                                  Steiner. He was a freakish case of an ordinary-seeming man who,
                                  because of his past lives, could go into a trance state and connect
                                  with the same sources as Blavatsky and Steiner. In his trances, he
                                  mainly was asked medical questions about people who were sick. Other
                                  stuff was secondary to him and he wasn't sure how much to trust it
                                  himself.> > -starmanwww.DrStarman.com> > > > To: steiner@:
                                  carynlouise24@: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:51:19 +0000Subject: [steiner] Re:
                                  Edgar Cayce> > > > > The Edgar Cayce's I have read are:The Life Story
                                  of JesusThe Origin and Destiny of ManRevelationMany Happy Returns My
                                  thoughts are:In Friedrich Rittelmeyer's `RUDOLF STEINER ENTERS MY
                                  LIFE' Friedrich writes:`His (Rudolf Steiner) attitude in the
                                  Krishnamurti affair shows that he regarded it as the greatest occult
                                  sin to claim authority for anyone on the ground of previous
                                  incarnations. In the age of the "Consciousness Soul" everyone must
                                  appeal with his teaching simply and solely to men's own objective
                                  sense of truth, and convince them purely on the basis of
                                  reason'.Edgar Cayce in an unconscious state claimed authority for
                                  person's previous incarnations and this should be a reason for
                                  concern. For instance; say someone like Edgar Cayce had to say to me
                                  `you were Mickey Mouse in your previous incarnation' – if I was naïve
                                  enough to believe this (because I was seeking the fundamental
                                  question of life `who am I') I would spend the rest of my life
                                  prancing around thinking to myself `I am Mickey Mouse' and further
                                  begin to act, take on the role of, Mickey Mouse - only to find when I
                                  pass through the portals of death I was actually Donald Duck in a
                                  previous incarnation and thus wasted a whole life in
                                  misconception.The age old wisdom comes to mind `Know Thyself' through
                                  yourself being yourself.Another factor; Edgar Cayce has claimed
                                  himself to be the great ancient leader Ra and the great mathematician
                                  Pythagoras in previous lifetimes.As far as I know not even Rudolf
                                  Steiner would claim to ascertain who he was in previous lifetimes in
                                  such an open manner; and further the true understanding of
                                  reincarnation of Initiates is not truly understood by the
                                  uninitiated.At this point I would like to say; Stephen Hale is
                                  greatly respected and (in my view) his investigations into the Karmic
                                  relationships between people is well thought through, done in a very
                                  concise manner and most importantly in a conscious manner. These
                                  investigations, on people who have already passed through the
                                  portals, namely Rudolf Steiner himself, directly proves the above
                                  writing by Friedrich Rittelmeyer on Rudolf Steiner's view on previous
                                  incarnations are done with an objective sense of truth based on
                                  knowledge and reason and is a gift invaluable to anthroposophy.I have
                                  spent years pondering Edgar Cayce and it is not without undue
                                  considerations I put this forward.--- In steiner@yahoogroups.com,
                                  Durward Starman <DrStarman@> wrote:>> > > > To: steiner@:
                                  Cheeseandsalsa@: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 13:32:21 -0400Subject: Re: [steiner]
                                  Edgar Cayce> > > > Barbara Handclow who isn't an anthro said that
                                  Cayce is a member and his father of the masons. She wrote that they
                                  were of the dark occult brotherhood...I personally do not resonate
                                  with what he brought to us. > I do agree - a balance is always good
                                  in communications.Any thoughts ... I wonder what Rudolf Steiner would
                                  have to say on Edgar Cayce?> > > 1> > .> *******> > > > > > Well, in
                                  this particular case I can say flatly that the lady is mistaken.
                                  Neither Cayce nor his father were Masons, I know that from personal
                                  study and contact with his family and many people who actually knew
                                  him here in Virginia Beach. He was not a member of anything, and in
                                  fact didn't know about Theosophy or anything esoteric until he began
                                  answering questions about such matters in his "readings." He almost
                                  never remembered anything he said in trance so they had to have a
                                  stenographer take it all down, and he read what he'd said afterwards
                                  along with everybody else. He was a simple Christian while awake and
                                  never joined anything except the local Presbyterian Church here. His
                                  father was a difficult man whom Edgar didn't get along with very
                                  well, but he also was not a member of any brotherhood or anything and
                                  had nothing to do with Edgar Cayce's work most of his life. > > As to
                                  what you don't resonate with in the Cayce Readings, well there's a
                                  lot that may be criticized in many ways. I don't know what you've
                                  read from them. > > Starman>
                                  __________________________________________________________> It's a
                                  talkathon – but it's not just talk.> http://www.imtalkathon.com/?
                                  source=EML_WLH_Talkathon_JustTalk> > > > > > >
                                  __________________________________________________________> Making
                                  the world a better place one message at a time.>
                                  http://www.imtalkathon.com/?source=EML_WLH_Talkathon_BetterPlace>
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > _________________________________________________________________
                                  > The i'm Talkaton. Can 30-days of conversation change the world?
                                  > http://www.imtalkathon.com/?source=EML_WLH_Talkathon_ChangeWorld
                                  >
                                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.