Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [steiner] Gospel of St John - question on Christian initiation

Expand Messages
  • Duncan Fernando
    Jeff, You are right to point out that there were only very few individuals in the 20th century who could be given the title of initiate, but is it not
    Message 1 of 5 , Jan 13, 2001
             You are right to point out that there were only very few
      individuals in the 20th century who could be given the title of
      initiate, but is it not Steiner's view that from now on there will
      be no more "stars" (in movie terminlogy), but there will be many
      "extras" quietly becoming more aware of the spiritual world
      under the influence of the Christ impulse?
              Looking around us in the world it is easy to come to the
      conclusion that materialism is triumphant, and indeed from Steiner's
      prediction of the coming of Ahriman things are going to get worse
      before they get better, but I think there are a few little indications of
      spiritual change. I know someone who was thoroughly materialistic
      ( a compulsive gambler) until the age of 68, and then began to see
      spiritual realities. How many people would have predicted the
      ending of Communism in Russia a year before it happened?
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Jeff Auen
      Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 8:00 PM
      Subject: Re: [steiner] Gospel of St John - question on Christian initiation


      On the surface all may seem well with the general course of  the Gospel of St. John cycle. The logical progression holds form but I have to admit that if one takes some of the assertions into the testing ground  everyday life, they don't seem pan out on the surface.

      Either humanity has failed again miserably to embrace this Impulse actively and consciously or RS had expectations that were unreasonable at the time and was speaking of a long future unfoldment. But given his concerns for world trends and the consequences of not embracing the Christ impulse (and the AP oriented world view), I would doubt he meant the long term view.

      What has bothered me constantly (though I fully accept the basic premises of the Christology) is why only a handful (I know of only 3-5) "teachers"during the past 100 years have realized this initiation and spoken directly about the power of the Christ Impulse and its central place in the world (at least publicly). If this event is so prevalent and all pervading, how is it that 99.9% of the world and spiritual teachers have missed it!

      Stephen Cosgrove, in another post, mentioned a good point: maybe only Steiner had been able to penetrate into the new Sun mysteries and have a special and direct relationship with Michael. There must be others but they have remained in the background and not come forward publicly as initiates. (Max Heindel and Tomberg are the only others I feel have captured a similar view from direct experience).   But, if this is the case, were does that leave the rest of us or those seeking the new initiation?

      As an aside,  the assertions in these lectures are clear in regards to the new initiation. . If we embrace the Christ forces we will be assisted in transforming and elevating ourselves into a new form of consciousness that transcend older initiations. This new form of consciousness is more objective, independent, and based on freedom from outside influences. The older initiations limit where and how deep one can penetrate into the nature of the spiritual worlds and the beings there.

      Hope this helps,


      Nick Mandoki wrote:

      Dear all,

      As we have just read in Steiner's Gospel of St John, one of the
      things that Christ's incarnation brought about was the possibility of
      a new form of initiation. This is alluded to in the story of the
      raising of Lazarus.

      Several times through the course of the lectures, Steiner states that
      this new form is for all of mankind, and not just for a select few as
      was the case before.

      I was just wondering exactly what is meant by this statement.

      For example, suppose an individual living in our present age wished
      to become an initiate. I should imagine that firstly they would
      require a teacher to give them some guidance, and then they would
      have to follow a very arduous path of devotion in order to achieve
      their goal.

      I expect that only a very few people would feel compelled to strive
      for initiation, let alone to achieve the goal.

      So how is this different from the way things were before ?

      To me, saying that a form of initiation is for all of mankind implies
      that the vast majority of people would both want it, and would have a
      reasonable expectation of achieving it.

      I can only think that Steiner may have been referring to the far
      distant evolution of mankind, whereby we have finally attained the
      spiritual faculties that Today can only be found in initiates.
      Without the Christ event, of course, we would have lost the
      possibility of rising to that level. Evolution would instead have
      taken an entirely different course, continuing instead to plummet
      into the depths of materialism.

      If that is what Steiner meant, then why didn't he say so ? I can't
      help think that I'm missing something here !

      I also wonder where, if at all, the idea that the new form of
      initiation is for all of mankind is indicated in the St John Gospel
      itself ? I find Steiner's interpretation of the Lazarus event to be a
      very satisfying one, but he then seems to expand out and include much
      which isn't indicated in the Gospel at all. Perhaps I should just be
      grateful !


      Post to steiner@egroups.com

      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

      Recommended books by Rudolf Steiner at:

    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.