Re: [steiner] Gospel of St John - question on Christian initiation
- Jeff,You are right to point out that there were only very fewindividuals in the 20th century who could be given the title ofinitiate, but is it not Steiner's view that from now on there willbe no more "stars" (in movie terminlogy), but there will be many"extras" quietly becoming more aware of the spiritual worldunder the influence of the Christ impulse?Looking around us in the world it is easy to come to theconclusion that materialism is triumphant, and indeed from Steiner'sprediction of the coming of Ahriman things are going to get worsebefore they get better, but I think there are a few little indications ofspiritual change. I know someone who was thoroughly materialistic( a compulsive gambler) until the age of 68, and then began to seespiritual realities. How many people would have predicted theending of Communism in Russia a year before it happened?Sena
----- Original Message -----From: Jeff AuenSent: Friday, January 12, 2001 8:00 PMSubject: Re: [steiner] Gospel of St John - question on Christian initiationNick,
On the surface all may seem well with the general course of the Gospel of St. John cycle. The logical progression holds form but I have to admit that if one takes some of the assertions into the testing ground everyday life, they don't seem pan out on the surface.
Either humanity has failed again miserably to embrace this Impulse actively and consciously or RS had expectations that were unreasonable at the time and was speaking of a long future unfoldment. But given his concerns for world trends and the consequences of not embracing the Christ impulse (and the AP oriented world view), I would doubt he meant the long term view.
What has bothered me constantly (though I fully accept the basic premises of the Christology) is why only a handful (I know of only 3-5) "teachers"during the past 100 years have realized this initiation and spoken directly about the power of the Christ Impulse and its central place in the world (at least publicly). If this event is so prevalent and all pervading, how is it that 99.9% of the world and spiritual teachers have missed it!
Stephen Cosgrove, in another post, mentioned a good point: maybe only Steiner had been able to penetrate into the new Sun mysteries and have a special and direct relationship with Michael. There must be others but they have remained in the background and not come forward publicly as initiates. (Max Heindel and Tomberg are the only others I feel have captured a similar view from direct experience). But, if this is the case, were does that leave the rest of us or those seeking the new initiation?
As an aside, the assertions in these lectures are clear in regards to the new initiation. . If we embrace the Christ forces we will be assisted in transforming and elevating ourselves into a new form of consciousness that transcend older initiations. This new form of consciousness is more objective, independent, and based on freedom from outside influences. The older initiations limit where and how deep one can penetrate into the nature of the spiritual worlds and the beings there.
Hope this helps,
Nick Mandoki wrote:
As we have just read in Steiner's Gospel of St John, one of the
things that Christ's incarnation brought about was the possibility of
a new form of initiation. This is alluded to in the story of the
raising of Lazarus.
Several times through the course of the lectures, Steiner states that
this new form is for all of mankind, and not just for a select few as
was the case before.
I was just wondering exactly what is meant by this statement.
For example, suppose an individual living in our present age wished
to become an initiate. I should imagine that firstly they would
require a teacher to give them some guidance, and then they would
have to follow a very arduous path of devotion in order to achieve
I expect that only a very few people would feel compelled to strive
for initiation, let alone to achieve the goal.
So how is this different from the way things were before ?
To me, saying that a form of initiation is for all of mankind implies
that the vast majority of people would both want it, and would have a
reasonable expectation of achieving it.
I can only think that Steiner may have been referring to the far
distant evolution of mankind, whereby we have finally attained the
spiritual faculties that Today can only be found in initiates.
Without the Christ event, of course, we would have lost the
possibility of rising to that level. Evolution would instead have
taken an entirely different course, continuing instead to plummet
into the depths of materialism.
If that is what Steiner meant, then why didn't he say so ? I can't
help think that I'm missing something here !
I also wonder where, if at all, the idea that the new form of
initiation is for all of mankind is indicated in the St John Gospel
itself ? I find Steiner's interpretation of the Lazarus event to be a
very satisfying one, but he then seems to expand out and include much
which isn't indicated in the Gospel at all. Perhaps I should just be
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