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Re: Gulags for Anthros?

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  • christopherraymond_bio
    Agreed Mathew. Politics mix with Anthroposophy, as does oil and water. The America bashing is annoying and too prevalent, almost a trend lately. ... not ...
    Message 1 of 14 , Aug 4, 2007
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      Agreed Mathew. Politics mix with Anthroposophy, as does oil and
      water. The America bashing is annoying and too prevalent, almost a
      trend lately.

      --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "Mathew Morrell" <tma4cbt@...> wrote:
      >
      > Generally speaking, political discussions are tolerated here, but
      not
      > necessarily welcome. So few, if any, have resulted in anything
      > positive or inspiring. Mostly, political discussions have diverted
      > from our central aim to delve into Rudolph Steiner's vision of
      > spiritual science--- not to provide a forum to endlessly exercise
      our
      > personal demons. Politics never seizes to drive wedges between
      > people who would otherwise be friends.
      >
      > It is our semi-restriction on politics (especially America bashing)
      > that makes this forum unique from every other Rudolph Steiner forum
      > on the Internet. Our forum is also the least popular.
      >
      > Just to avoid any misconceptions in the future, let me add that I'm
      > not really a Socialist, per se. I consider myself a "light"
      > socialist, meaning I believe in strong, socialistic programs (like
      > Social Security and FAFSA) that benefit society as a whole without
      > making the people dependent on big government. In fact, most
      > members here would consider me a "right winger".
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "christopherraymond_bio"
      > <christopherraymond_bio@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Thanks Mathew. You know Canada has a Charter of Rights which
      grants
      > > less freedom than the Constitution. When I refer here to
      freedom,
      > it
      > > is temporal freedom and not 'true freedom' but basic regulation on
      > > what powers the government can act upon. So we can say that the
      > > Constitution is allowing the US government less authority than
      does
      > > the Canadian Charter of Rights. But today Canadians actually
      > > appear to have more freedom than do Americans. Europeans will not
      > > travel into America today and this must reflect something more
      than
      > > "Socialist" or "Republican", or "Libertarian", or even the
      > > Constitution.
      > >
      > > I recall Dr. Steiner making it clear how St. Germain opposed the
      > > French Revolution and how he felt that changes were not to be
      forced
      > > upon people through violence. I was born a rebel but my
      obligations
      > > are needed elsewhere, so i have done exactly what you said and I
      am
      > > behaving myself.
      > >
      > > I haven't read too much on Dr. Steiner's view of politics,
      business,
      > > banking or even spiritual socialism but I find that many
      socialists
      > > are acting like better 'free-market' business people than so-
      called
      > > republicans today. For example, the medi-care system is Canada
      is
      > in
      > > shambles and our drugs are overpriced. And people attribute this
      to
      > > it being a socialist nation and having too much government
      > > involvement. However, when I compare it to the average cost of
      > drugs
      > > sold in America, I wonder how those Republicans can be calling
      > > themselves anything other than "fascists"? For when business and
      > > government merge, to me this is a cartel, or fascism. Yet they
      > still
      > > call themselves "Republicans" and know nothing of free-
      enterprise.
      > > When a so-called socialist sits down with me and discusses
      > > things, many Canadians are calling themselves this, they're often
      > > acting as better Republicans, such that the lines begin to blur
      and
      > > all that remains is their ability to understand "right and wrong"
      > and
      > > not titles.
      > >
      > > Chris
      > >
      > > --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "Mathew Morrell" <tma4cbt@> wrote:
      > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > > > A lot of good thoughts there, Chris. You're a true rebel.
      > > >
      > > > I am myself a "light" socialist, and so therefore we might
      > > > differ in some areas concerning taxes and Constitutional law.
      > But at
      > > > least it's good to find somebody in Anthroposophy who approaches
      > > > these issues from the standpoint of love, not hate, for America-
      > Canada,
      > > > and that you're the type of person who would rather avoid
      violence
      > > > than create it un-necessarily. Both of us would rather see the
      > > > Reformation fought on the mental plane, through open debate and
      > free
      > > > discussion rather than on the streets of our cities where we
      know
      > who
      > > > the victor will be.
      > > >
      > > > The French Revolution was fought on the streets by peasants
      with
      > pitch
      > > > forks, and it won them Napoleon. On a massive scale the
      working
      > man
      > > > usurped the Romanov Russian Empire, and their blood gave them
      > Lenin,
      > > > Trotsky and finally Stalin, who obliterated them all. The
      German
      > beer
      > > > hall meetings of the 1920s led to Hitler. In each instance,
      good
      > > > intentions were hoped for by well-meaning people, but tyranny
      was
      > all
      > > > that followed.
      > > >
      > > > For our Reformation to succeed it must not allow itself to be
      > pulled
      > > > into the dark, turbid waters where nearly every revolution
      > ends. Our
      > > > Reformation must imbue itself with clear thinking, direct
      > motives, and
      > > > foresight to overcome the huge obstacles that lie ahead. Our
      > revolution
      > > > must be fought from above, with Michael's divine assistance---or
      > > > else it is doomed to create ever-greater dimensions of tyranny.
      > > >
      > > > Therefore be a good boy, keep paying your taxes, stay out of
      > jail, and
      > > > leave radical government reformations to the Christ impulse
      > working
      > > > through our Time Spirit. He'll right the ship in ways that you
      > or I
      > > > can't possibly imagine, if we work by His will, not by ours.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "christopherraymond_bio"
      > > > <christopherraymond_bio@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Dear Mathew,
      > > > >
      > > > > Dr. Steiner said there was a Conspiracy against the Holy
      Spirit
      > and
      > > > > Christ. I believe that in order to have this come about, it
      is a
      > > > > required fact that some "spill over" into the material world
      as
      > > > > Conspiracies will appear. And I appreciate Robert's link on
      the
      > > > > revisionist history also, because even though I tend to keep
      > these
      > > > > matters separate from spiritual ideas and concepts, they are
      > often
      > > > > closely linked together.
      > > > >
      > > > > For example, I know this 'new' member of the Anthroposophical
      > Movement
      > > > > who considered NOT paying income tax several years ago. He is
      > aware
      > > > > that under International Admiralty Maritime Law or "Roman
      > Cannot Law",
      > > > > or "law of the open waters", that contract provisions are in
      > place
      > > > > that force "Citizens" to pay income tax. However under Common
      > Law or
      > > > > Civil Law, which is based upon the Bill of Rights and the
      > Constitution
      > > > > of America, or the Canadian Charter of Rights, there is NO LAW
      > > > > requiring one to pay income tax. To this VERY day, No-one can
      > show
      > > > > YOU the law.
      > > > >
      > > > > Common law and Civil Law, which is really the "law of the
      land"
      > is
      > > > > nearly the same in both Canada and in the "united states of
      > America".
      > > > > Notice that the "UNITED STATES" is today spelled in 'CAPPS'
      as a
      > > > > corporation and this is not known to most people why that is
      so.
      > > > > However, to become a "non-citizen" and to return yourself to a
      > > > > sovereign American or Canadian, is not something that many
      > people are
      > > > > knowledgeable enough to do. This has also much to do with why
      > on the
      > > > > bottom of your birth certificate it now says, Canadian Bank
      > Note, or
      > > > > Treasury Bond, in very tiny print. Even a soldier, or a GI,
      (as
      > in
      > > > > GI-JOE) is short for "General Issue" or a "Bank Note". That
      is
      > why,
      > > > > it was once optional to fill out an income tax form. Now it is
      > > > > illegal to file for an amount less than what the government
      > assumes
      > > > > you made for that period on your income tax return. Keep in
      > mind also,
      > > > > that not one penny of Income Tax goes toward paying off any
      > debt, or
      > > > > to the poor, or even to the government! The Income Tax we pay
      > goes
      > > > > straight into the hands of the type of dictators who the
      > Founding
      > > > > Fathers opposed during the Revolution. They opposed it with
      > blood. I
      > > > > do not want to see a Restoration occur in America; even the
      > words of
      > > > > Edgar Cayce, were about protecting the Constitution of
      America
      > and
      > > > > what happened in Germany will not happen in America.
      > > > >
      > > > > I recall the words of President George Washington regarding
      the
      > > > > colonists having gladly paid a few more pennies tax on tea
      but
      > to be
      > > > > forced to pay an un-apportioned tax on your labor, and a tax
      > without
      > > > > representation, is tyranny. It is a tax that Kings place upon
      > > > > servants and NOT free men.
      > > > >
      > > > > That person is me. I decided to look into this matter further
      > and
      > > > > upon much reflection, I've decided I will keep paying income
      > tax for
      > > > > now because the government is so corrupt and evil today, that
      > they are
      > > > > not even following the very rules that they themselves put in
      > place
      > > > > and used to follow. I could go on for days into more detail
      > here but
      > > > > the point is, if they had a Trojan Horse in the days of Troy,
      > or a
      > > > > back door, then how can we ignore having a decent firewall?
      > > > >
      > > > > Chris
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "Mathew Morrell" tma4cbt@
      wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Mr. Mason wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > > [The inner circle of New World Order] understand
      > > > > >
      > > > > > > that Anthroposophy is a serious obstacle to their
      > > > > >
      > > > > > > aims, however insignificant and muddled Anthropo-
      > > > > >
      > > > > > > sophists may appear to be on the physical plane.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > > [brackets mine]
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > I'll at least accept the possibility that you're seeing
      > > > > > something in the heart of Anthroposophists that I cannot
      see.
      > > > > > You're a bright person. Maybe you're right and
      Anthroposophy
      > is
      > > > > > a world-force around the globe capable of intimidating the
      > New World
      > > > > > Order. Where as I see a movement riddled with neurosis, I'm
      > open to
      > > > > > the possibility that there is a silent majority out there
      > that I
      > > > > > haven't encountered who have the spiritual wisdom to
      > illuminate the
      > > > > > world. Maybe they're the ones capable of bringing a new
      > vision of
      > > > > > Christ to the 21st century, as mainstream Christianity
      > atrophies and
      > > > > > dies.
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > That is the worst nightmare scenario of the New World Order-
      --
      > an
      > > > > > illuminated Christian Church, empowered by occultism,
      > spiritualized
      > > > by
      > > > > > God, saved by Jesus Christ, our Lord.
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > When Anthroposophists are tired of dicking around with
      their
      > asinine
      > > > > > conspiracy theories, their rabid anti-Semitism, and their
      > sickening
      > > > > > hatred of the United States, wake me up and I'll pick up my
      > sword.
      > > > > > Until then, you guys are on your own.
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, Robert Mason
      > <robertsmason_99@>
      > > > > > wrote:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > To Mathew Morrell, who wrote:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >>If they start censoring Steiner's lectures,
      > > > > > > don't fret. Start uploading his censored
      > > > > > > material onto the Internet---and those
      > > > > > > teachings, in turn, will become more available
      > > > > > > than they are now. In our time, the Internet is
      > > > > > > our greatest weapon against totalitarian
      > > > > > > control of ideas.<<
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Robert writes:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Just about all of Steiner's writings and
      > > > > > > lectures are already on the Net in German, and
      > > > > > > a good deal of them in English at the eLib.
      > > > > > > But the would-be totalitarians are already
      > > > > > > exploring ways to shut down the Internet. So
      > > > > > > far, it seems, their main ploy has been to
      > > > > > > flood it with disinformation.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Matthew wrote:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >>. . . . Now, as far as "saving" Anthro from
      > > > > > > totalitarianism, that's kind of an oxymoron,
      > > > > > > isn't it? Maybe the Internet has warped my view
      > > > > > > of Anthroposophy as a whole, but I really don't
      > > > > > > see any major political conflicts arising
      > > > > > > anytime soon between the New World Order and
      > > > > > > Anthroposophy. Nor can I envision the average
      > > > > > > Anthroposophist being locked up in a re-
      > > > > > > education camp or a Gulag. In fact, I see the
      > > > > > > opposite occuring. The New World Order and the
      > > > > > > average Anthroposophist are in perfect
      > > > > > > agreement on so many issues (i.e. gun control,
      > > > > > > immigration, the Fairness Doctrine) that the
      > > > > > > two spheres almost seem to be an extension of
      > > > > > > one another. Anthroposophists should stop
      > > > > > > flattering themselves with the idea that
      > > > > > > they're radical intellectuals, when quite the
      > > > > > > opposite is true.<<
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Robert writes:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > That's an interesting perception of the
      > > > > > > "average" Anthro, and maybe you have more
      > > > > > > experience on which to base it than I have. I
      > > > > > > suppose to some extent, at least, it's true.
      > > > > > > Anthros are only people, and most people have
      > > > > > > the outlook that is normal in the society
      > > > > > > around them. When people come to Anthroposophy
      > > > > > > they usually bring some of the "normal"
      > > > > > > prejudices with them. It's an individual
      > > > > > > matter as to how much the encounter with
      > > > > > > Anthroposophy will make the Anthro into a
      > > > > > > "radical intellectual", to use your phrase.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Nevertheless, Anthroposophy itself is very much
      > > > > > > at odds with the prevailing materialistic
      > > > > > > worldview, and those Powers That Be (those in
      > > > > > > the inner circles) know this fact very well,
      > > > > > > and they understand that Anthroposophy is a
      > > > > > > serious obstacle to their aims, however
      > > > > > > insignificant and muddled Anthroposophists may
      > > > > > > appear to be on the physical plane.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Therefore, just having any connection with
      > > > > > > Anthroposophy might well put someone on the
      > > > > > > arrest list, or the extermination list.
      > > > > > > Picture this: The black-clad, ski-masked,
      > > > > > > body-armored SWAT team is kicking in the door,
      > > > > > > shooting the dog, and hauling the startled,
      > > > > > > unarmed Anthro into the paddy wagon. Do you
      > > > > > > suppose it would do him any good to protest,
      > > > > > > "No, no; I believe in open borders. I'm for
      > > > > > > gun control. I love the U.N., I really do." --
      > > > > > > ?Hm?? Do you think that the steroid-pumped
      > > > > > > HiGs would relent and release the "terrorist"?
      > > > > > > Or do you suppose that the magistrate, if there
      > > > > > > be any magistrates or *habeus corpus* left in
      > > > > > > the NWO, would appreciate the PC-ness of the
      > > > > > > "average Anthro" and let him go on his merry
      > > > > > > way?
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Maybe, maybe . . . . But maybe not. If the NWO
      > > > > > > comes down, is it gonna come down as hard as
      > > > > > > the Power That Be would like it to, or would
      > > > > > > there be some restraint? That's kinda the
      > > > > > > question I was asking, and asking whether
      > > > > > > traditional American respect for freedom would
      > > > > > > yet impose that restraint more than in Europe.
      > > > > > > But I don't much doubt that the Powers That Be
      > > > > > > would like to exterminate anyone who has any
      > > > > > > real appreciation of Anthroposophy.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > I appreciate your take on the "average" Anthro;
      > > > > > > I wonder whether anyone has taken a poll?
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Robert Mason
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
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