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Re: [steiner] Digest Number 1385

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  • Danny
    Hi Starman, This is you who automatically attach that Equalizing behaviour to a larger body of a written thought system known as Marxism. That s a bit of sad
    Message 1 of 3 , Apr 14 7:39 AM

      Hi Starman,

      This is you who automatically attach that Equalizing behaviour to a larger body
      of a written thought system known as Marxism. That's a bit of sad application, or rather
      assimilation to an already made philosophy of the PAST, of a PAST guy, that really
      has no real root anywhere as something that spring freshly out of regular people
      interacting together as a community imbued with Moral qualities. Rather is more representative what this study group has done out of the blue, and far from being something to be despised, it rather shows the remaining healthy core that lives in human beings in regard of Brotherhood and the sense of Justice underlying Equality. Note that they did not have exactly all the same amount and that no imposed theory has been cast on the mind of these people; they rather listened to their own Conscience. It is grounded in the reality of the current men actually living on Earth. Peer-to-Peer Social software applications (for example http://www.slsknet.org/)  are a manifestation of that matter of fact in its own way. There is a sort of stealing right, but in the Robin Hood fashion also. We do not live in the Old Testament world no more. One has to judge for himself and take the Karma that comes with it. Let Freedom and Love rule; let Good Will be, and in the end all will be fine and the Egotistical distortions of the Soul and the Acid and Harshness of Condemnations will vanish and the forecasted establishment of the Christ-World Atmosphere shall surround us all and the World will be Light.
      The Antiquated Marxist "file" that is in your mind and like to use from time to time, likewise, shall find itself irrelevant and disappear as an idea that has no Future in the Evolution of Mankind.

      Danny

      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      3a. Re: Study reveals "Robin Hood impulse" in human nature
          Posted by: "Durward Starman" DrStarman@... durwardstarman
          Date: Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:34 pm ((PDT))

      *******I'd say this is why no one listens to the so-called 'THREEFOLD SOCIAL
      ORDER' stuff anymore, because so many well-meaning people have confused it
      with Marxism, Danny.

          Do you think it's an admirable character trait to steal or take by force
      from productive people in society and then give what you rob to
      non-productive people?

          In terms of reflecting the human body in the "Body Politic", I'd say
      that's the equivalent of taking from the heart or liver cells and using them
      to grow extra large earlobes or other useless appendages. Or tumors.

         Look at every society that's been tried based on Marxism and see what the
      society has become and how indivduals reflecting it have become. Cancerous.
      Distorted. People flee it to be human.

         I don't see any relation between forced redistribution of income by the
      government using guns and anything Dr. Steiner says. If you think there is
      any, quote the Doctor please.

        It's incredible how trendy leftist thought with zero relation to
      anthroposophy has been consistently 'read into' Steiner to the point where
      people think he supported such things. On the contrary, when Lenin was
      coming to power in Russia he said if such ideologies took over it would be
      the end of Western civilization and abolition of the Christ Impulse.

      Dr. Starman
      www.DrStarman.com





      >From: "premabrahma" <premabrahma@...>
      >Reply-To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
      >To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: [steiner] Study reveals "Robin Hood impulse" in human nature
      >Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 13:19:59 -0000
      >
      >
      >"The healthy social life is only when
      >in the mirror of the human soul
      >the whole community forms itself
      >and in the community lives
      >the strength of the individual soul."
      >
      >Rudolf Steiner, November 1920
      >
      >http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070411/ts_nm/psychology_robinhood_dc
      >
      >
      href="http://www.threefolding.freeuk.com/">http://www.threefolding.freeuk.com/
      >



      Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
      Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.
    • Durward Starman
      *******You may be right, Danny. Such people may be following idealistic behavior. To me, the crux of the matter is: are they talking about things to happen
      Message 2 of 3 , Apr 14 2:45 PM
        *******You may be right, Danny. Such people may be following idealistic
        behavior. To me, the crux of the matter is: are they talking about things to
        happen voluntarily, or by FORCE ?

        If people believe wealth is distributed unequally, then are they, like
        Bill Gates, giving away a portion of their own wealth? Or are they agitating
        to use the power of government---- the sole legitimate user of force---- to
        force OTHER people to be what they judge as 'more generous'?

        Are they wllling to give away something of theirs or only raging about
        "the rich" and just wanting OTHER people to do what they consider right?

        I regard the former as evidence of true compassion and desire for
        fairness; the latter, as an excuse to impose your morality and force your
        will on others. People who think they know better than everyone else how all
        people should live always find that attractive. It's a 'Luciferic' trap.

        You can dismiss others' objections as motivated by not being as
        intelligent or clear-sighted as yourself, but the child who knew the emperor
        had no clothes wasn't 'wise', either. He just didn't see what all the people
        imagined they saw.

        People can always be generous with giving away other peoples' things.
        It's as easy as pointing out others' faults.

        Starman

        www.DrStarman.com

        P.S. And I note there was not one quote from Steiner to back up stealing
        from other people as 'noble'.



        >From: Danny <premabrahma@...>
        >Reply-To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
        >To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: Re: [steiner] Digest Number 1385
        >Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 07:39:00 -0700 (PDT)
        >
        >
        >Hi Starman,
        >
        >This is you who automatically attach that Equalizing behaviour to a larger
        >body
        >of a written thought system known as Marxism. That's a bit of sad
        >application, or rather
        >assimilation to an already made philosophy of the PAST, of a PAST guy, that
        >really
        >has no real root anywhere as something that spring freshly out of regular
        >people
        >interacting together as a community imbued with Moral qualities. Rather is
        >more representative what this study group has done out of the blue, and far
        >from being something to be despised, it rather shows the remaining healthy
        >core that lives in human beings in regard of Brotherhood and the sense of
        >Justice underlying Equality. Note that they did not have exactly all
        > the same amount and that no imposed theory has been cast on the mind of
        >these people; they rather listened to their own Conscience. It is grounded
        >in the reality of the current men actually living on Earth. Peer-to-Peer
        >Social software applications (for example http://www.slsknet.org/) are a
        >manifestation of that matter of fact in its own way. There is a sort of
        >stealing right, but in the Robin Hood fashion also. We do not live in the
        >Old Testament world no more. One has to judge for himself and take the
        >Karma that comes with it. Let Freedom and Love rule; let Good Will be, and
        >in the end all will be fine and the Egotistical distortions of the Soul and
        >the Acid and Harshness of Condemnations will vanish and the forecasted
        >establishment of the Christ-World Atmosphere shall surround us all and the
        >World will be Light.
        >The Antiquated Marxist "file" that is in your mind and like to use from
        >time to time,
        > likewise, shall find itself irrelevant and disappear as an idea that has
        >no Future in the Evolution of Mankind.
        >
        >Danny
        >
        >________________________________________________________________________
        >________________________________________________________________________
        >
        >3a. Re: Study reveals "Robin Hood impulse" in human nature
        > Posted by: "Durward Starman" DrStarman@... durwardstarman
        > Date: Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:34 pm ((PDT))
        >
        >*******I'd say this is why no one listens to the so-called 'THREEFOLD
        >SOCIAL
        >ORDER' stuff anymore, because so many well-meaning people have confused it
        >with Marxism, Danny.
        >
        > Do you think it's an admirable character trait to steal or take by
        >force
        >from productive people in society and then give what you rob to
        >non-productive
        > people?
        >
        > In terms of reflecting the human body in the "Body Politic", I'd say
        >that's the equivalent of taking from the heart or liver cells and using
        >them
        >to grow extra large earlobes or other useless appendages. Or tumors.
        >
        > Look at every society that's been tried based on Marxism and see what
        >the
        >society has become and how indivduals reflecting it have become. Cancerous.
        >Distorted. People flee it to be human.
        >
        > I don't see any relation between forced redistribution of income by the
        >government using guns and anything Dr. Steiner says. If you think there is
        >any, quote the Doctor please.
        >
        > It's incredible how trendy leftist thought with zero relation to
        >anthroposophy has been consistently 'read into' Steiner to the point where
        >people think he supported such things. On the contrary, when Lenin was
        >coming to power in Russia he said if such ideologies took
        > over it would be
        >the end of Western civilization and abolition of the Christ Impulse.
        >
        >Dr. Starman
        >www.DrStarman.com
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > >From: "premabrahma" <premabrahma@...>
        > >Reply-To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
        > >To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
        > >Subject: [steiner] Study reveals "Robin Hood impulse" in human nature
        > >Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 13:19:59 -0000
        > >
        > >
        > >"The healthy social life is only when
        > >in the mirror of the human soul
        > >the whole community forms itself
        > >and in the community lives
        > >the strength of the individual soul."
        > >
        > >Rudolf Steiner, November 1920
        > >
        > >http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070411/ts_nm/psychology_robinhood_dc
        > >
        > >http://www.threefolding.freeuk.com/
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >__________________________________________________
        >Do You Yahoo!?
        >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        >http://mail.yahoo.com

        _________________________________________________________________
        Exercise your brain! Try Flexicon.
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      • premabrahma
        ... things to ... Well, the study did not involve much force. For sake of catchyness and ease of recognition of the Concept perhaps they have decided to call
        Message 3 of 3 , Apr 15 1:40 AM
          --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "Durward Starman" <DrStarman@...> wrote:
          >
          > *******You may be right, Danny. Such people may be following idealistic
          > behavior. To me, the crux of the matter is: are they talking about
          things to
          > happen voluntarily, or by FORCE ?

          Well, the study did not involve much force. For sake of catchyness and
          ease of recognition of the Concept perhaps they have decided to call
          it the Robin Hood impulse, but it is far from fitting the description
          of taking other people's wealth by force. We agree that stealing isn't
          in itself a noble thing, and so are the societies in which we live.
          Not very noble, not very wise, but deep down inside lays a potential
          to explore, one that senses-life cannot bring forward on its own. And
          in this line of thinking, in this direction of mind; the Democratic,
          Egalitarian Impulse, comes this other example that is Wikipedia and
          this other one with a name even more revelatory: Citizendium.
          (http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Main_Page)

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Threefolding

          Social Threefolding

          "uncoerced cooperation/community in economic life."

          "threefold social order" is not a finite blueprint or something that
          might be "implemented" in the course of a day or even a century.
          Steiner made many concrete reform proposals, but the threefold social
          order is a living open direction and process, not a fixed or finite plan."

          I would not call myself a Robin Hood of the Social Threefolding,
          but an attentive observer of the world that surround me, active in
          That good may become
          What I
          From my heart do found,
          What I
          From my head
          Direct with purposeful
          Willing.

          Not dismissing one thing because it looks too much like this or too
          much like that, but considering it on its own merit. Comparisons may
          always apply, but let they remain at the periphery of the empirically
          observed phenomena deserving all our attention.

          Nowadays this is the Cultural Sphere that is sorrily lacking,
          the Sophic, the Anthropo-Sophic. We are far from the Science of the
          Spirit still...

          It is like the Social Threefolding it appears...

          "not a finite blueprint or something that might be "implemented" in
          the course of a day or even a century."

          Hope remains.

          Danny

          >
          > If people believe wealth is distributed unequally, then are they,
          like
          > Bill Gates, giving away a portion of their own wealth? Or are they
          agitating
          > to use the power of government---- the sole legitimate user of
          force---- to
          > force OTHER people to be what they judge as 'more generous'?
          >
          > Are they wllling to give away something of theirs or only raging
          about
          > "the rich" and just wanting OTHER people to do what they consider right?
          >
          > I regard the former as evidence of true compassion and desire for
          > fairness; the latter, as an excuse to impose your morality and force
          your
          > will on others. People who think they know better than everyone else
          how all
          > people should live always find that attractive. It's a 'Luciferic' trap.
          >
          > You can dismiss others' objections as motivated by not being as
          > intelligent or clear-sighted as yourself, but the child who knew the
          emperor
          > had no clothes wasn't 'wise', either. He just didn't see what all
          the people
          > imagined they saw.
          >
          > People can always be generous with giving away other peoples'
          things.
          > It's as easy as pointing out others' faults.
          >
          > Starman
          >
          > www.DrStarman.com
          >
          > P.S. And I note there was not one quote from Steiner to back up
          stealing
          > from other people as 'noble'.
          >
          >
          >
          > >From: Danny <premabrahma@...>
          > >Reply-To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
          > >To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
          > >Subject: Re: [steiner] Digest Number 1385
          > >Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 07:39:00 -0700 (PDT)
          > >
          > >
          > >Hi Starman,
          > >
          > >This is you who automatically attach that Equalizing behaviour to a
          larger
          > >body
          > >of a written thought system known as Marxism. That's a bit of sad
          > >application, or rather
          > >assimilation to an already made philosophy of the PAST, of a PAST
          guy, that
          > >really
          > >has no real root anywhere as something that spring freshly out of
          regular
          > >people
          > >interacting together as a community imbued with Moral qualities.
          Rather is
          > >more representative what this study group has done out of the blue,
          and far
          > >from being something to be despised, it rather shows the remaining
          healthy
          > >core that lives in human beings in regard of Brotherhood and the
          sense of
          > >Justice underlying Equality. Note that they did not have exactly all
          > > the same amount and that no imposed theory has been cast on the
          mind of
          > >these people; they rather listened to their own Conscience. It is
          grounded
          > >in the reality of the current men actually living on Earth.
          Peer-to-Peer
          > >Social software applications (for example http://www.slsknet.org/)
          are a
          > >manifestation of that matter of fact in its own way. There is a
          sort of
          > >stealing right, but in the Robin Hood fashion also. We do not live
          in the
          > >Old Testament world no more. One has to judge for himself and take the
          > >Karma that comes with it. Let Freedom and Love rule; let Good Will
          be, and
          > >in the end all will be fine and the Egotistical distortions of the
          Soul and
          > >the Acid and Harshness of Condemnations will vanish and the forecasted
          > >establishment of the Christ-World Atmosphere shall surround us all
          and the
          > >World will be Light.
          > >The Antiquated Marxist "file" that is in your mind and like to use
          from
          > >time to time,
          > > likewise, shall find itself irrelevant and disappear as an idea
          that has
          > >no Future in the Evolution of Mankind.
          > >
          > >Danny
          > >
          >
          >________________________________________________________________________
          >
          >________________________________________________________________________
          > >
          > >3a. Re: Study reveals "Robin Hood impulse" in human nature
          > > Posted by: "Durward Starman" DrStarman@... durwardstarman
          > > Date: Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:34 pm ((PDT))
          > >
          > >*******I'd say this is why no one listens to the so-called 'THREEFOLD
          > >SOCIAL
          > >ORDER' stuff anymore, because so many well-meaning people have
          confused it
          > >with Marxism, Danny.
          > >
          > > Do you think it's an admirable character trait to steal or
          take by
          > >force
          > >from productive people in society and then give what you rob to
          > >non-productive
          > > people?
          > >
          > > In terms of reflecting the human body in the "Body Politic",
          I'd say
          > >that's the equivalent of taking from the heart or liver cells and
          using
          > >them
          > >to grow extra large earlobes or other useless appendages. Or tumors.
          > >
          > > Look at every society that's been tried based on Marxism and
          see what
          > >the
          > >society has become and how indivduals reflecting it have become.
          Cancerous.
          > >Distorted. People flee it to be human.
          > >
          > > I don't see any relation between forced redistribution of
          income by the
          > >government using guns and anything Dr. Steiner says. If you think
          there is
          > >any, quote the Doctor please.
          > >
          > > It's incredible how trendy leftist thought with zero relation to
          > >anthroposophy has been consistently 'read into' Steiner to the
          point where
          > >people think he supported such things. On the contrary, when Lenin was
          > >coming to power in Russia he said if such ideologies took
          > > over it would be
          > >the end of Western civilization and abolition of the Christ Impulse.
          > >
          > >Dr. Starman
          > >www.DrStarman.com
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > >From: "premabrahma" <premabrahma@...>
          > > >Reply-To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
          > > >To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
          > > >Subject: [steiner] Study reveals "Robin Hood impulse" in human nature
          > > >Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 13:19:59 -0000
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >"The healthy social life is only when
          > > >in the mirror of the human soul
          > > >the whole community forms itself
          > > >and in the community lives
          > > >the strength of the individual soul."
          > > >
          > > >Rudolf Steiner, November 1920
          > > >
          > > >http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070411/ts_nm/psychology_robinhood_dc
          > > >
          > > >http://www.threefolding.freeuk.com/
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >__________________________________________________
          > >Do You Yahoo!?
          > >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          > >http://mail.yahoo.com
          >
          > _________________________________________________________________
          > Exercise your brain! Try Flexicon.
          >
          http://games.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmemailtaglineapril07
          >
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