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Re: Goethe quote?

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  • thepathofthesunflower
    ... Does anyone have a good quote from Goethe about the integration of science and spiritual observation, or something along those lines? John ... Hi John I
    Message 1 of 10 , Feb 8, 2007
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      --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, John Massengale <john@...> wrote:

      Does anyone have a good quote from Goethe about the integration of
      science and spiritual observation, or something along those lines?
      John

      >

      Hi John

      I don't have a quote of Goethe along those lines as such but this link
      which is included in the 1 new link at the top of the board here talks
      about Goethe's (through Steiner) interpretation of Blood.

      One could say Blood is the science of spiritual observation?

      http://correiorosacruz.netfirms.com/anthroposophy.htm

      Regards
      Caryn
    • Nina
      ... Dear John, Fr Goethe On Science by Jeremy Naydler: p.23...Naydler summarizes in his intro: As conceived by Goethe, science is as much an inner path of
      Message 2 of 10 , Feb 11, 2007
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        --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, John Massengale <john@...> wrote:
        >a good quote from Goethe about the integration of science
        > and spiritual observation, or something along those lines?
        > John
        Dear John,
        Fr "Goethe On Science" by Jeremy Naydler:
        p.23...Naydler summarizes in his intro: "As conceived by Goethe,
        science is as much an inner path of spiritual development as it is a
        discipline aimed at accumulating knowledge of the physical world.
        Rather than simply making new discoveries and propounding new theories
        on the basis of ever more refined techniques of physical observation,
        the aim of science is,for Goethe, to open the eyes and mind of the
        beholder of nature to what is spiritually at work within, or at root
        of, the observed physical phenomena. It therefore involves not only a
        rigorous training of our faculuties of observation and thinking, but
        also of other human faculties which can attune us to the spiritual
        dimension that underlies and interpenetrates the physical: faculties
        such as feeling, imagination, and intuition. Science, as Goethe
        conceived and practiced it, has as its highest goal the arousal of the
        feeling of wonder through 'contemplative looking' (Anschauung), in
        which the scientist would come 'to see God in nature, nature in God.'"

        p.116...Goethe:"None of the human faculties should be excluded from
        scientific activity. The depths of intuition(Ahnung), a sure awareness
        of the present, mathematical profundity, physical exactitude, the
        heights of reson(Vernunft) and sharpness of intellect(Verstand)
        together with a versatile and ardent imagination, and a loving delight
        in the world of the senses - they are all essential for a lively and
        productive apprehension of the moment."

        p. 71...Naydler:"Goethe aptly describes his method as a 'delicate
        empiricism'(Zarte-empirie)It is painstakingly attentive to the
        phenomena, and requires fromt eh scientist the discipline of always
        taking the lead from the pheomena, allowing them to speak, and
        silencing the scientist's own urge to rush into premature explanatory
        hypotheses. The Goehtean scientist seeks to participate in the objects
        investigated to such a degree that the mind makes itself one with the
        object, thereby overcoming the sense of separateness that characterizes
        our normal experience of ourselves in relation to the world."

        p.73...Goethe:"My whole method relies on derivation. I persist until I
        have discovered a preganant point from which several things may be
        derived or rather - since I am careful in my work and observation - one
        which yeilds several things, offering them up of its own accord. If
        some phenomena appears in my research and I can find no source for it,
        I let it stand as a problem. This approach has proven quite
        advantageous over the years. The origin and context of some problem
        might be impossible to discover; I might have to let it lie for a long
        time; but at some moment, years later, enlightenement comes in the most
        wonderful way."
        You may want to secure book! Good luck -NINA
      • Nina
        ... Major gaps in my education! Faust on my 2007 reading list! Thanks for sharing - copied entire 25 pages - NINA
        Message 3 of 10 , Feb 11, 2007
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          --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "thepathofthesunflower"
          <thepathofthesunflower@...> wrote:
          > One could say Blood is the science of spiritual observation?
          > Caryn
          Major gaps in my education! Faust on my 2007 reading list!
          Thanks for sharing - copied entire 25 pages - NINA
        • John Massengale
          Thanks, that s just what I needed. Is Jeremy Naydler an anthropop?
          Message 4 of 10 , Feb 11, 2007
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            Thanks, that's just what I needed.

            Is Jeremy Naydler an anthropop?


            > --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com <mailto:steiner%40yahoogroups.com> , John
            > Massengale <john@...> wrote:
            >> a good quote from Goethe about the integration of science
            >> and spiritual observation, or something along those lines?
            >> John
            > Dear John,
            > Fr "Goethe On Science" by Jeremy Naydler:
            > p.23...Naydler summarizes in his intro: "As conceived by Goethe,
            > science is as much an inner path of spiritual development as it is a
            > discipline aimed at accumulating knowledge of the physical world.
            > Rather than simply making new discoveries and propounding new theories
            > on the basis of ever more refined techniques of physical observation,
            > the aim of science is,for Goethe, to open the eyes and mind of the
            > beholder of nature to what is spiritually at work within, or at root
            > of, the observed physical phenomena. It therefore involves not only a
            > rigorous training of our faculuties of observation and thinking, but
            > also of other human faculties which can attune us to the spiritual
            > dimension that underlies and interpenetrates the physical: faculties
            > such as feeling, imagination, and intuition. Science, as Goethe
            > conceived and practiced it, has as its highest goal the arousal of the
            > feeling of wonder through 'contemplative looking' (Anschauung), in
            > which the scientist would come 'to see God in nature, nature in God.'"
            >
            > p.116...Goethe:"None of the human faculties should be excluded from
            > scientific activity. The depths of intuition(Ahnung), a sure awareness
            > of the present, mathematical profundity, physical exactitude, the
            > heights of reson(Vernunft) and sharpness of intellect(Verstand)
            > together with a versatile and ardent imagination, and a loving delight
            > in the world of the senses - they are all essential for a lively and
            > productive apprehension of the moment."
            >
            > p. 71...Naydler:"Goethe aptly describes his method as a 'delicate
            > empiricism'(Zarte-empirie)It is painstakingly attentive to the
            > phenomena, and requires fromt eh scientist the discipline of always
            > taking the lead from the pheomena, allowing them to speak, and
            > silencing the scientist's own urge to rush into premature explanatory
            > hypotheses. The Goehtean scientist seeks to participate in the objects
            > investigated to such a degree that the mind makes itself one with the
            > object, thereby overcoming the sense of separateness that characterizes
            > our normal experience of ourselves in relation to the world."
            >
            > p.73...Goethe:"My whole method relies on derivation. I persist until I
            > have discovered a preganant point from which several things may be
            > derived or rather - since I am careful in my work and observation - one
            > which yeilds several things, offering them up of its own accord. If
            > some phenomena appears in my research and I can find no source for it,
            > I let it stand as a problem. This approach has proven quite
            > advantageous over the years. The origin and context of some problem
            > might be impossible to discover; I might have to let it lie for a long
            > time; but at some moment, years later, enlightenement comes in the most
            > wonderful way."
            > You may want to secure book! Good luck -NINA
          • thepathofthesunflower
            Awesome Nina The writings on blood underlines the significance of Christ spilling His Blood upon the Earth when He was stabbed in the side by the Roman solider
            Message 5 of 10 , Feb 12, 2007
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              Awesome Nina

              The writings on blood underlines the significance of Christ spilling
              His Blood upon the Earth when He was stabbed in the side by the Roman
              solider plus His Blood from His hands and feet which the Angels caught
              up in cups.

              The Etheric Blood of Christ remains upon Earth.

              Glory to God.
            • thepathofthesunflower
              Thanks for this Nina. I ve never had any direct writings on Goethe. Wonderful words. I can see the same in Steiner.
              Message 6 of 10 , Feb 12, 2007
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                Thanks for this Nina. I've never had any direct writings on Goethe.
                Wonderful words. I can see the same in Steiner.
              • Nina
                ... Dear John, Naydler is described as a philosopher, cultural historian and gardener, living in Oxford. Barbara Clow mentioned him in her Catastrophobia.
                Message 7 of 10 , Feb 12, 2007
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                  --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, John Massengale <john@...> wrote:
                  > Is Jeremy Naydler an anthropop?
                  Dear John,
                  Naydler is described as a philosopher, cultural historian and gardener,
                  living in Oxford. Barbara Clow mentioned him in her Catastrophobia.
                  Wrote book, "Shamanic Wisdom in the Pyramid Texts:The Mystical
                  Tradition of Ancient Egypt"
                  (fr back cover - Until now,the Pyramid texts have been viewed primarily
                  as royal funerary texts that were used in the liturgy of the dead
                  pharoah or to aid him in his afterlife journey.JN argues that they are
                  mystical texts that speak of the experiences not of the dead but of the
                  living king.)He lists Steiner's Egyptian Myths in biblio.
                  Earlier book "Temple of the Cosmos"
                  (fr back cover - Temple is a profound exploration of an ancient
                  consciousness more in tune with the rythms of the earth, more open to
                  the internal dimensions of time and space, less cut off from the
                  secrets of life.)
                  Goethe book, he listed Goethean Science.
                  Also listed is his "How Caterpillars Acquire Wings"
                  No mention of his being an anthroposophist. NINA
                • eurythmy
                  Dear John, There may be something for you in these treatises of Goethe quoted in The Etherisation of the Blood,A Lecture By,,Rudolf Steiner, Basle, October 1,
                  Message 8 of 10 , Feb 13, 2007
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                    Dear John,
                    There may be something for you in these treatises of Goethe quoted in  The Etherisation of the Blood,A Lecture By,,Rudolf Steiner, Basle, October 1, 1911, GA 130

                    Question: How are the words used by St. Paul, “to speak in tongues” (Cor. I: 12), to be understood?

                    Answer: In exceptional human beings it can happen that not only is the phenomenon of speaking present in the waking state, but that something otherwise present in sleep-consciousness only, flows into this speaking. This is the phenomenon to which St. Paul refers. Goethe refers to it in the same sense; he has written two very interesting treatises on the subject.

                    If ever they are in English, or French I would be interested to know.

                    Kind Regards,

                    Franky

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 5:04 PM
                    Subject: Re: [steiner] Re: Goethe quote?
                  • thepathofthesunflower
                    That s awesome Franky. I was reading Acts the other night and St. Paul talking about speaking in tongues and I was wondering about this. I have thought
                    Message 9 of 10 , Feb 14, 2007
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                      That's awesome Franky. I was reading Acts the other night and St. Paul
                      talking about speaking in tongues and I was wondering about this.
                      I have thought speaking in the sleep-conscious takes a certain amount
                      of art. When I had my conscious out of body experience and walked
                      through my lounge window I floated to the top of the trees in my garden
                      flung my arms back and said 'Glory to God in the Highest'
                      here i noticed my voice was tiny and hardly audible and came from my
                      stomach rather then my voice box. I have been thinking Taurus rules
                      the voice and think somehow Taurus is the place of initiation for
                      spirit talking (maybe?).. by God's will of course.

                      Best regards and thanks again for those words.
                      Caryn
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