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Gurdjieff

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  • Mathew Morrell
    **I guess I m the only one here who thinks James Wyley is a genius---albeit of the half insane variety. He would fit in perfectly here. ** I have only one
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 1, 2006
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      **I guess I'm the only one here who thinks James Wyley is a genius---albeit of the half insane variety.  He would fit in perfectly here.

       

      **  I have only one problem with Gurdjieff's occult psychology, yet this one problem is so severe and deep rooted that, I believe, it taints the entirety of Gurdjieff's work and cripples any serious attempt to fully realize the potential that Gurdjieff himself realized. 

       

      The problem has to do with Gurdjieff's fundamentally negative approach.  He begun his philosophy from the standpoint that man is trapped in a sort of hypnotic sleep and that only super effort and intentional suffering can awaken the slumbering will, hence the exhausting, often times painful austerities his followers practiced under Gurdjieff's tutelage.  The purpose of these exercises was to awaken the reservoir of power locked within the subconscious mind. 

       

      Yet, it is possible to overemphasize effort.  At some point effort produces fatigue and pessimism, and all effort begins to be futile.  Eventually you lose a sense of purpose.  The mind, it then seems, requires a more positive aim than the aim provided by Gurdjieff.  It requires a reason positive enough to inspire the initiate to lovingly endure the suffering required to awaken the subconscious.  But what positive reason did Gurdjieff ever bring?  What reason de't air did he bestow that would inspire his followers to lovingly sacrifice themselves to higher principles?   For love of God?  Love of nation or family?  To sacrifice oneself for humanity?  No, none of these!  The reason de'tair behind Gurdjieff's psychology is to sacrifice ones self for the purpose of never being tired---as absurd as that sounds. 

       

      In retrospect, it seems, Gurdjieff's followers might have been better advised to have huffed nitrous oxide instead.   

    • katmoon@cox.net
      Mathew, I really enjoyed reading your post:) It brings back memories of a boyfriend who was really into Gurdjieff. He loved to pound people over the head
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 1, 2006
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        Mathew, I really enjoyed reading your post:)
        It brings back memories of a boyfriend who was really into Gurdjieff. He loved to "pound" people over the head with Gurdieff, Ospensky, and the Big Book.
        I always wanted to know why he couldn't enjoy life.
        He felt he had to awaken from hypnotic sleep:) He really punished himself.
        This had a negative impact on our relationship because he became negative.
        Kat



        ---- Mathew Morrell <tma4cbt@...> wrote:
        >
        > **I guess I'm the only one here who thinks James Wyley is a
        > genius---albeit of the half insane variety. He would fit in perfectly
        > here.
        >
        >
        >
        > ** I have only one problem with Gurdjieff's occult psychology, yet
        > this one problem is so severe and deep rooted that, I believe, it taints
        > the entirety of Gurdjieff's work and cripples any serious attempt to
        > fully realize the potential that Gurdjieff himself realized.
        >
        >
        >
        > The problem has to do with Gurdjieff's fundamentally negative
        > approach. He begun his philosophy from the standpoint that man is
        > trapped in a sort of hypnotic sleep and that only super effort and
        > intentional suffering can awaken the slumbering will, hence the
        > exhausting, often times painful austerities his followers practiced
        > under Gurdjieff's tutelage. The purpose of these exercises was to
        > awaken the reservoir of power locked within the subconscious mind.
        >
        >
        >
        > Yet, it is possible to overemphasize effort. At some point effort
        > produces fatigue and pessimism, and all effort begins to be futile.
        > Eventually you lose a sense of purpose. The mind, it then seems,
        > requires a more positive aim than the aim provided by Gurdjieff. It
        > requires a reason positive enough to inspire the initiate to lovingly
        > endure the suffering required to awaken the subconscious. But what
        > positive reason did Gurdjieff ever bring? What reason de't air did
        > he bestow that would inspire his followers to lovingly sacrifice
        > themselves to higher principles? For love of God? Love of nation or
        > family? To sacrifice oneself for humanity? No, none of these! The
        > reason de'tair behind Gurdjieff's psychology is to sacrifice
        > ones self for the purpose of never being tired---as absurd as that
        > sounds.
        >
        >
        >
        > In retrospect, it seems, Gurdjieff's followers might have been
        > better advised to have huffed nitrous oxide instead.
        >
      • Cheeseandsalsa@aol.com
        In a message dated 12/1/2006 1:03:02 P.M. Central Standard Time, tma4cbt@juno.com writes: But what positive reason did Gurdjieff ever bring? What reason de t
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 2, 2006
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          In a message dated 12/1/2006 1:03:02 P.M. Central Standard Time, tma4cbt@... writes:

          But what positive reason did Gurdjieff ever bring?  What reason de't air did he bestow that would inspire his followers to lovingly sacrifice themselves to higher principles?   For love of God?  Love of nation or family?  To sacrifice oneself for humanity?  No, none of these!  The reason de'tair behind Gurdjieff's psychology is to sacrifice ones self for the purpose of never being tired---as absurd as that sounds. 

          In retrospect, it seems, Gurdjieff's followers might have been better advised to have huffed nitrous oxide instead.   

          Haha, well, the power of attention and intention was Gurdjieff's aim I believe.  The worst thing we can do is be passive.  I can sit down to a Steiner lecture or book and passively read the information and waste a WHOLE lot of time.  Or I can be attentive and alive and acknowledge the power of my mind.  Sometimes being attentive needs strengthened.  It is needed for ritual and practice in all sorts.  Whether you are sacrificing a lamb or practicing a concentration exercise.  ~Chantel
        • thepathofthesunflower
          I think James is quite profound and has a wisdom not many people would understand. The burden of knowledge is a yoke. I think James is carrying this yoke and
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 4, 2006
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            I think James is quite profound and has a wisdom not many people
            would understand. The burden of knowledge is a yoke. I think James
            is carrying this yoke and needs support... he has acquired a rare
            insight. I wouldn't mind James being a member here; the least we
            could do is offer friendship.

            Matthew you wrote:
            The problem has to do with Gurdjieff's fundamentally negative
            approach. He begun his philosophy from the standpoint that man is
            trapped in a sort of hypnotic sleep and that only super effort and
            intentional suffering can awaken the slumbering will ..

            I am not familiar with Gurdjieff's work (although after James I have
            a inkling) but what you wrote above I think rings true with Astrology.

            I hope Starman agrees with me here; the philosophy of Astrology
            (although astrology is not a philosophy it is the Divine plan of
            Creation) the principle of Astrology is;

            We each in turn go through the wheel of each Zodiac Sign. Once we
            have accomplished and attained the highest possible note or octave in
            each sign we advance to the next sign. Until we have achieved the
            highest combination of octaves in all the signs and break through the
            Circle of Life.

            We know each Sign has its Ruling Planet and each Sign and Planet has
            a negative or positive state. The negative being the lower nature
            and the positive being the higher nature.

            So in a way we are in a hypnotic sleep unless we awaken our
            slumbering Will/Ego and attain the positive (together with the
            negative to understand or appreciate the positive)the keyword being :
            awake with knowledge in order to break the Wheel of Karma. And it
            done through self effort and self knowledge. We either asleep or we
            are awake.

            Jesus Christ did this. The Risen Man. God's Son as an example for
            us to follow.

            I do believe this 'philosophy' is in accordance to Dr Steiner's work.
            Mediatations on the Signs of the Zodiac by John Jocelyn Rudolf
            Steiner Press being my knowledge of this principle.

            Love
            Caryn
          • thepathofthesunflower
            Chantel wrote: Haha, well, the power of attention and intention was Gurdjieff s aim I believe. The worst thing we can do is be passive. I can sit down to a
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 4, 2006
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              Chantel wrote:
              Haha, well, the power of attention and intention was Gurdjieff's aim
              I believe. The worst thing we can do is be passive. I can sit down
              to a Steiner lecture or book and passively read the information and
              waste a WHOLE lot of time. Or I can be attentive and alive and
              acknowledge the power of my mind. Sometimes being attentive needs
              strengthened. It is needed for ritual and practice in all sorts.
              Whether you are sacrificing a lamb or practicing a concentration
              exercise. ~Chantel


              Hi Chantel hope you are well :)

              Rudolf Steiner shared his knowledge with us as a huge gift to
              humanity. Self-knowledge in Spiritual Affairs is extremely
              important. So when someones says I visted you in your sleep you can
              say (thanks to Dr Steiner) .. the science is not correct. In order
              for you to visit me I have to perceive you inside me and in turn
              express outwardly your form from what I perceived you to be.

              They might be doing this but with the correct spiritual science
              knowledge it may be understood correctly and then the one realises
              there are check and balances. Thanks to Dr Steiner the knowledge
              very important.

              Basic example but many similiar areas Dr Steiner's work corrects
              untruths purely because of the science.

              Also, we cannot read in the spiritual worlds - we take in visual
              picture forms but actually reading of words is not able. The Doctor
              explains this to us. So while in Earth it is important to read as
              much as we can so we take this information with us into the spritual
              worlds and have a better understanding of the worlds around us.

              My thoughts
              Caryn
            • Nina
              ... Dear Caryn, Used to have that book. In conclusion to According to Luke , Dr. Steiner spoke of the meaning of the fundamental words, Peace in human hearts
              Message 6 of 9 , Dec 5, 2006
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                --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "thepathofthesunflower"
                <thepathofthesunflower@...> wrote:
                >> God's Son as an example for us to follow.
                >I do believe this 'philosophy' is in accordance to Dr Steiner's work.
                > Mediatations on the Signs of the Zodiac by John Jocelyn Rudolf
                > Steiner Press being my knowledge of this principle
                > Love Caryn
                Dear Caryn,
                Used to have that book.
                In conclusion to "According to Luke", Dr. Steiner spoke of the meaning
                of the fundamental words,"Peace in human hearts in whom goodwill
                dwells."
                "More than any other document, the Luke Gospel, if fully understood,
                fills human souls with the warm love that allows peace to dwell on
                earth as the most exquisite reflection of divine mysteries."
                Earlier he gave,
                "Until individuals are fully illumined by self-awareness, until they
                can distinquish between good and evil, from within the I,their
                earlier, original nature is visible through the veil of later
                degradation. Only the childlike element in modern human beings
                preserves a remnant of human nature as it was before we succombed to
                the influence of Luciferic beings."
                Recently found Starman's "East Meets West" articles. The one "Various
                Thoughts:The Fourth Dimension, Astroposophy" is very informative. He
                mentions astrologer Robert Powell( has series,one title on
                reincarnation). Have you seen his books? Starman also mentions Willi
                Sucher, whose works at the time of his 2003 article, were not
                available. SteinerbooksCatalog03/04 has his Cosmic Christianity.NINA
              • thepathofthesunflower
                Hi Nina Hope you are well - we went a bit quite didn t we! I haven t read Robert Powell but will look out for it. I loved what you said : Peace in human
                Message 7 of 9 , Dec 5, 2006
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                  Hi Nina

                  Hope you are well - we went a bit quite didn't we!
                  I haven't read Robert Powell but will look out for it.

                  I loved what you said : "Peace in human hearts in whom goodwill
                  dwells."

                  A wonderful affirmative thought for the day :)

                  Love and Light
                  Caryn
                • Nina
                  ... ... Enjoy your holiday Caryn! When I read your history, thought you d like these books: Christian Hermetic Astrology:The Star
                  Message 8 of 9 , Dec 6, 2006
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                    --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "thepathofthesunflower"
                    <thepathofthesunflower@...>
                    > I haven't read Robert Powell but will look out for it...Caryn
                    Enjoy your holiday Caryn!
                    When I read your history, thought you'd like these books:
                    Christian Hermetic Astrology:The Star of Magi and the Life of Christ
                    Hermetic Astrology,vol.1, Astrology and Reincarnation
                    Hermetic Astrology,vol.2, Astrological Biography(significance of time
                    fr conception to birth considered in relation to the unfolding of
                    human biography in seven-year cycles.)
                    Your peaceful radiance is an inspiration. NINA
                  • thepathofthesunflower
                    ... Those books sound wonderful - thanks so much Nina. Your gentle wisdom is beautiful and appreciated. Much love Caryn
                    Message 9 of 9 , Dec 7, 2006
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                      --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "Nina" <emeraldnina@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "thepathofthesunflower"
                      > <thepathofthesunflower@>
                      > > I haven't read Robert Powell but will look out for it...Caryn
                      > Enjoy your holiday Caryn!
                      > When I read your history, thought you'd like these books:
                      > Christian Hermetic Astrology:The Star of Magi and the Life of Christ
                      > Hermetic Astrology,vol.1, Astrology and Reincarnation
                      > Hermetic Astrology,vol.2, Astrological Biography(significance of time
                      > fr conception to birth considered in relation to the unfolding of
                      > human biography in seven-year cycles.)
                      > Your peaceful radiance is an inspiration. NINA
                      >
                      Those books sound wonderful - thanks so much Nina.
                      Your gentle wisdom is beautiful and appreciated.

                      Much love
                      Caryn
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