Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Starman Replies

Expand Messages
  • Mathew Morrell
    I went ahead and posted Starman s latest replies. The links are below. Cayce Tertium Organum Approaching the
    Message 1 of 24 , Nov 18, 2006
    • 0 Attachment

      I went ahead and posted Starman's latest replies.  The links are below. 

       

      Cayce

      Tertium Organum
      Approaching the Fourth Dimension

       

       

      The Historical Fact of Christianity

       

       

      On the Philosophy of Concepts

       

    • Mathew Morrell
      Oops, didn t type the correct address into post on Christianity. The corrected link is below. The Historical Fact of Christianity
      Message 2 of 24 , Nov 18, 2006
      • 0 Attachment

        Oops, didn't type the correct address into post on Christianity.  The corrected link is below.

         

         The Historical Fact of Christianity

         

         

         

         

      • Durward Starman
        *******Thank you again Matthew. Some time I will have to edit them a little bit. By the way, it s a great step forward when you can experience the healing work
        Message 3 of 24 , Nov 18, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          *******Thank you again Matthew. Some time I will have to edit them a little
          bit.

          By the way, it's a great step forward when you can experience the healing
          work our angels (or "spirit guides") do on us while we're asleep. Most of
          us, they have to do it without our being conscious. How they appear to us
          is, indeed, as you said, dependent on how we picture a "wisdom figure". Once
          one appeared to me (though this was in my waking state) as a young
          long-haired man in blue jeans on the side of a highway. Other times they've
          appeared to be Franciscan monks. They draw the images from our subconscious.

          -Starman

          www.DrStarman.com





          >From: "Mathew Morrell" <tma4cbt@...>
          >Reply-To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
          >To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: [steiner] Starman Replies
          >Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 19:40:32 -0000
          >
          >I went ahead and posted Starman's latest replies. The links are
          >below. Cayce <http://kcpost.net/htdocs/starman/Cayce.htm>
          >
          >Tertium Organum
          >Approaching the Fourth Dimension
          ><http://kcpost.net/htdocs/starman/Ouspensky.htm>
          >
          >
          >
          >The Historical Fact of Christianity
          ><http://kcpost.net/htdocs/starman/ChristianityasMysticalFact.htm>
          >
          >
          >
          >On the Philosophy of Concepts
          ><http://kcpost.net/htdocs/starman/PureConcept.htm>

          _________________________________________________________________
          Fixing up the home? Live Search can help
          http://imagine-windowslive.com/search/kits/default.aspx?kit=improve&locale=en-US&source=hmemailtaglinenov06&FORM=WLMTAG
        • Nina
          ... a little ... healing ... Most of ... appear to us ... figure . Once ... times they ve ... subconscious. ... Hi Everyone, I am an even more delighted new
          Message 4 of 24 , Nov 20, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "Durward Starman" <DrStarman@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > *******Thank you again Matthew. Some time I will have to edit them
            a little
            > bit.
            >
            > By the way, it's a great step forward when you can experience the
            healing
            > work our angels (or "spirit guides") do on us while we're asleep.
            Most of
            > us, they have to do it without our being conscious. How they
            appear to us
            > is, indeed, as you said, dependent on how we picture a "wisdom
            figure". Once
            > one appeared to me (though this was in my waking state) as a young
            > long-haired man in blue jeans on the side of a highway. Other
            times they've
            > appeared to be Franciscan monks. They draw the images from our
            subconscious.
            >
            > -Starman
            >
            > www.DrStarman.com

            Hi Everyone,
            I am an even more delighted new member! Perhaps that is why circa
            time joined had dream of "catching a heavenly star". Withdrew my
            daughter fr St. Francis Catholic High last month.Loved everything
            about it except could not be totally myself /too rigid mold for her
            too. Current discussion of picture images is perfect. Years ago
            tried to publish article,"Music of the Heart" w/Parabola. Declined -
            said it was "too Christian". Think rather "too Cayce" for them.
            Favorite quote was fr St.Francis, "What are the servants of the Lord
            but his minstrels?" Have several articles hope will evolve into
            book. Another chapter is "The New Song Before the Throne" and third
            on "Emerald Tablet". With this knowledge, maybe see more the
            importance of dream shared with ANGEL symbol!
            One interpretation of dream was, "Yes, will write more on angels -
            (dovetails w/daughters /new births, more babies...do have research
            waiting in the wings)). Angels are known for their harps!
            Noted it was significant that had dream before read Wilcock book so
            could not say was influenced in any way. (except,yes, had known of
            prediction of 98 return, but was thinking babe. For me, fact that
            knew who he was by Dec of 97 could be synonomous with arrival in 98.
            I'm no astrologer /read impressive natal similarities though. In
            some ways more sensible to be able to announce to world then, rather
            than future when grown up.)so, yes, think other layer of
            interpretation that Cayce is back as messenger of light, coming out
            of the vehicle from the depths of the waters..). As far as
            clairvoyant telling me angel represented unconditonal love:
            Cayce reading: "For the entity, as each soul, is a portion of the
            whole. Thus, though a soul may be as but a speck upon the earth's
            environs, and the earth in turn much less than a mote in the
            universe, if the spirit of man is so attuned to the Infinite, the
            music of harmony becomes as the divine love that makes for the
            awareness in the experience of Creative Forces working with self for
            the knowledge of the associations with same."
            May have been elements of Ahriman in some of his readings as you
            said Starman(outside of my knowledge base) but think not in this
            one. Prediction of incarnation of Ahriman in 98. I can only share
            where I am. David Wilcock also uses musical metaphors. Dream is
            useful even without reincarnation showing!
            The beauty of anthroposophy will unfold. Same clairvoyant lady
            always intimidated that there was more ahead. Yes.Please be patient
            with me as I gain my ground. Means much for me to be here, sharing.
            I'm an Aquarian w/Scorp rising - NINA
          • Nina
            ... It is the music reading that want clear as one not fr Ahriman. Should ve said READ in Steiner material prediction of incarnation of Ahriman in 98. Same
            Message 5 of 24 , Nov 20, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "Nina" <emeraldnina@...> wrote:
              It is the music reading that want clear as one not fr Ahriman.
              Should've said READ in Steiner material prediction of incarnation of
              Ahriman in 98.
              Same clairvoyant lady always INTIMATED that there was more ahead.
              CORRECTED SPELLING ERROR - had intimidated - weird slip - maybe
              somewhat true. Totally understand the personal nature of spiritual
              choice. Dislike conflict but it is part of life. Will always strive
              for harmony - N
            • Durward Starman
              ... *******To those people who are not knowledgeable about the psychic Edgar Cayce, what this is about is that there s a young man who turned up at the Cayce
              Message 6 of 24 , Nov 20, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                >read Wilcock book......, had known of
                >prediction of 98 return, but was thinking babe. For me, fact that
                >knew who he was by Dec of 97 could be synonomous with arrival in 98.
                >I'm no astrologer /read impressive natal similarities though. In
                >some ways more sensible to be able to announce to world then, rather
                >than future when grown up.)so, yes, think other layer of
                >interpretation that Cayce is back as messenger of light, coming out
                >of the vehicle from the depths of the waters..

                *******To those people who are not knowledgeable about the psychic Edgar
                Cayce, what this is about is that there's a young man who turned up at the
                Cayce headquarters in Virginia Beach a few years ago who has convinced
                himself he is the reincarnation of Edgar Cayce. The Cayce organization
                decided he is just a deluded young man in---- -- the latest in a long line
                of people coming here, in fact ------ and I quite agree. Cayce predicted he
                would be born again in 1998, but of course this young man has a whole series
                of intellectual gymnastics to explain away the problem with the birth dates.
                [ He also has absolutely no psychic ability, and such ability can never be
                lost by any soul, so any reincarnation of Edgar Cayce would have an enormous
                amount. ]

                We have a very nice conversation going here on this list, but since
                information about this sad young man is mixed in with it, I just want to
                make clear my point of view from personally witnessing him that he's just a
                young man from New York who had a big emptiness in his life and decided to
                fill it with a whole fantasy world built upon a facial resemblance to Edgar
                Cayce which is no stronger man that of the actor Richard Thomas (John-Boy
                Walton).

                We've had lots of such people come through here, but most of them were
                before they could set up their own web sites filled with nonsense and
                bolster their egos by trumpeting themselves to the world. Edgar Cayce said
                in one of his readings that there would be an incarnation of John the
                Beloved and referred to him as "John Peniel", and I can't count how many
                people have showed up here claiming to be HIM. Then there was a minister
                from Georgia who spent months year memorizing the Cayce readings, then
                pretended to go into trance and give readings which were entirely derivative
                from Cayce's, when he really had no psychic ability either. He changed his
                name to "Paul Solomon" and started his own cult here when the Cayce
                headquarters would have nothing to do with him, and led people into a big
                land venture in the Shenandoah Valley in which lots of people lost their
                life's savings. He made lots of money and got so overweight that he died
                relatively young of a heart attack.

                I could give you other examples of unhealthy people with mental illness
                here (like all the ones who claimed to be Jesus Christ!!!}, but suffice it
                to say that they have absolutely nothing of any value to contribute. I'd say
                don't waste your time with any of that, especially when you have
                anthroposophy available to study.



                >I'm an Aquarian w/Scorp rising - NINA

                ******* I'm your opposite, Scorpio with Aquarius rising! ;->

                -Starman

                _________________________________________________________________
                Get FREE company branded e-mail accounts and business Web site from
                Microsoft Office Live
                http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/
              • Nina
                ... since information about this sad young man is mixed in with it, I just want to make clear my point of view from personally witnessing him that he s just a
                Message 7 of 24 , Nov 21, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "Durward Starman" <DrStarman@...>
                  wrote:
                  > We have a very nice conversation going here on this list, but
                  since information about this sad young man is mixed in with it, I
                  just want to make clear my point of view from personally witnessing
                  him that he's just a young man from New York who had a big
                  emptiness in his life and decided to fill it with a whole fantasy
                  world built upon a facial resemblance to Edgar Cayce
                  > >I'm an Aquarian w/Scorp rising - NINA
                  >
                  > ******* I'm your opposite, Scorpio with Aquarius rising! ;->
                  > -Starman

                  Dear Starman,
                  David's account is not easy to summarize but it can be read...he had
                  many unusual experiences at very young age. It makes sense to me
                  that since I gained much expansion with Cayce teachings of
                  reincarnation/meditation (writing book to honor some of his
                  revelations),that I might be graced with a dream showing me he is
                  back. You might have perceived him as a sad,young man with this
                  whole fantasy going but that is not what comes across in the
                  book.I'm sure Va Bch attracts a variety of people and you have
                  witnessed much.I've been in his discussion group for 3 months now
                  and find him to be a very genuine person with a mission.
                  Astrological opposites may have much to share - NINA
                • Cheeseandsalsa@aol.com
                  Good thoughts and thank you for them Starman. Everything is riddled with this kind of content. This truth or untruth. Every human body has to learn the
                  Message 8 of 24 , Nov 21, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Good thoughts and thank you for them Starman. Everything is riddled with this kind of content.  This truth or untruth.  Every human body has to learn the ability to intuite things and then go beyond in developing their psychic abilities.  To discern for themselves.  Beginner stuff. 
                  • Nina
                    ... with this kind of content. This truth or untruth. Every human body has to learn the ability to intuit things and then go beyond in developing their
                    Message 9 of 24 , Nov 22, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, Cheeseandsalsa@... wrote:
                      >
                      > Good thoughts and thank you for them Starman. Everything is riddled
                      with this kind of content. This truth or untruth. Every human body
                      has to learn the ability to intuit things and then go beyond in
                      developing their psychic abilities. To discern for themselves.
                      Beginner stuff.
                      Dear Chantel,
                      Beginner stuff. Starman is an incredible teacher - that is
                      obvious.It does not feel right to me,however, to have David Wilcock
                      maligned. I am speaking about making statements without reading 400
                      page book/5 volume related material. Assumed (perhaps all of you did
                      too)that Starman had. If he read "Reincarnation of", he would haveseen
                      evidence of abilities. I'm not taking away from his "impressions".
                      Know my limits and can't speak about what carryover abilities Wilcock
                      would have.
                      Love animated movie ANASTASIA. Don't know how many of you have
                      seen this fiction account of the lost child of Nicholos and Alexandra.
                      Supposedly, Anastasia and her grandmother escape during the Russian
                      turbulence with the help of a servant boy. Anastasia gets separated
                      from her grandmother / no memory of who she is/lives in orphanage for
                      a decade. The servant boy, Dimitri, grows up too and holds auditions
                      for girls to play role of Anastasia. Synchronous fate throws them
                      together and they discover from her new actual memories that she is
                      really her! They travel to Paris to convince grandmother but by this
                      time granny is already too tired of "imposters claiming to be
                      Anastasia". The musical jewel box that Granny had given Anastasia as a
                      child that Dimitri was able to save, plays a role because Anastasia
                      remembers the melody! Movie has unique charm laced with many spiritual
                      truths.
                      Deceased Rasputin is portrayed with his otherworldly abilities
                      to interfere with Anastasia's dreams.(meet him in introduction when
                      Nicholos says, "I thought you were a holy man..." Ras had it in for
                      the royal family and made his "Romanoff curse"). The end is
                      charming...Rasputin's pal Bartok the Bat tells him that he wants no
                      part of his revenge, "This can only end in tears! He dances off with a
                      Lady Bat. (Curious,isn't it? especially with role hearing plays in
                      spirit world). Luckily, Anastasia did not face reincarnation showing
                      elements David Wilcock faces!
                      Think Dr. Steiner would agree with Cayce excerpt, "...to be a
                      part of that preparation for the coming influences of a spiritual
                      nature that must rule the world."
                      Caryn asked about Mayan 2012. Would recommend "The Mayan
                      Prophecies" by Gilbert and anthroposophist Cotterell. Thank-you
                      Maurice Cotterell/great work on Lid of Palenque! He found bat image
                      hidden there!
                      Would like to share sample fr companion books mentioned above
                      from "The Law of One:Book One" by Ra, humble messenger of the Law of
                      One:
                      Question asked abou Rasputin."...aware through memory of Atlantean
                      understandings having to do with the use of the various centers of
                      mind/body/spirit complex energy influx in attaining the gateway to
                      intelligent infinity." Did this enable to do magic?"..was a conscious
                      adept and also spared no effort in the pursuit of service to self."
                      My aim is not to take away fr this groups purpose. Felt
                      beneficial - do not see conflict with Steiner. Open to new knowledge
                      streams coming through for our times. Some may be but not what sharing
                      here.
                      "The passive meditation involving the clearing of the mind, the
                      emptying of the mental jumble which is characteristic of mind complex
                      activity among your peoples, is efficacious for those whose goal is to
                      achieve an inner silence as a base from which to listen to the
                      Creator...." Next says "Visualization is the tool of the adept. Those
                      who learn to hold visual images in mind are developing an inner
                      concentrative power."..."Contemplation or the consideration in a
                      meditative state of an inspiring image or text is extremely useful
                      also among your peoples, and the faculty of will called praying is
                      also of a potentially helpful nature. Whether it is indeed a helpful
                      activity depends quite totally on the intentions and objects of the
                      one who prays."
                      Will explore vast riches in own book...possibly minimal points
                      of convergence here if sense receptivity and not asked to leave. "Ra"
                      is name of a social memory complex fr 6th density Venus. Steiner
                      people should not find this so way out. (yes, caution trance process).
                      This Venus 6D social complex is believed to have been the Source of
                      Cayce but because of his limited belief system, was not detailed.
                      Clarified here in case anyone is interested. NINA
                      Starman -
                      Jupiter in Virgo in the 11th house - can't we have some fun with this?
                      You see I can't help it! You offer so much - I need the expansion...N
                      Know where your Saturn is. :->
                      I'm Aquarian enough to not have my feelings hurt, so please know that.
                      Aim to see good in every situation...I'll expand wherever I am ...ME
                      P.S. amazing stuff about green ray energy that think links with what
                      Bamford shared fr "The Hegira poem" about Khidr, the legendary figure
                      in Islamic lore...Green or Emerald One ...
                      "Ra": "When positive adept touches intelligent infinity from within,
                      this is most powerful connection for it is connection of whole
                      mind/body/spirit/complex microcosm with macrocosm. This connection
                      enabling green ray color in time/space to manifest in your space/time.
                      In green ray, thoughts are beings. In your illusion this is not
                      normally so. Adepts become living channels - able to channel this
                      radiance into planetary work." Let me know...N
                      Paul Solomon may have run into problems. Did find beauty:
                      "Now in the physical dimension, you will also find tablets of wisdom,
                      written, engrved Smaragdine tablets in the chamber at Giza. Understand
                      that Smaradine refers to emeralds. The emerald tablets of the heart of
                      emerald green." Might expect some ability if in fact he had been Paul!
                      But who knows?
                    • Durward Starman
                      ... ******* I read it until I was too bored to go on with it. As far as I read, it was a lot of words that realy said nothing at all. Channelers are good at
                      Message 10 of 24 , Nov 24, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        >--- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, Cheeseandsalsa@... wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Good thoughts and thank you for them Starman. Everything is riddled
                        >with this kind of content. This truth or untruth. Every human body
                        >has to learn the ability to intuit things and then go beyond in
                        >developing their psychic abilities. To discern for themselves.
                        >Beginner stuff.

                        >Dear Chantel,
                        > Beginner stuff. Starman is an incredible teacher - that is
                        >obvious.It does not feel right to me,however, to have David Wilcock
                        >maligned. I am speaking about making statements without reading 400
                        >page book/5 volume related material. Assumed (perhaps all of you did
                        >too)that Starman had. If he read "Reincarnation of", he would haveseen
                        >evidence of abilities. I'm not taking away from his "impressions"...


                        ******* I read it until I was too bored to go on with it. As far as I read,
                        it was a lot of words that realy said nothing at all. "Channelers" are good
                        at that, especially in a place like Virginia Beach they can count on people
                        mistaking pseudoscience for anything real. That's why Steiner has never been
                        popular here.

                        To give you an idea how low this place has sunk, one of the popular fads
                        here in the past few years was the fake "documentary" which actually was a
                        commercial for the equally fake JZ Knight Matt has told us so much about,
                        called "What the Bleep Do We Know?" It of course did not identify the angry,
                        puffy-faced woman who just went through a messy divorce, as being the
                        alleged 'perfect' channeller of a 5,000-year-old warrior named Ramtha,
                        merely quoted her and several of her brainwashed followers as 'experts' on
                        'consciousness'. (Her real name, I believe, is Joanne, and the Z stands for
                        'Zebra' which was a nickname she was given long before she started
                        pretending to 'channel' because of her tendency to see everything in black
                        and white, her opinions and the wrong opinions.) I could not believe the
                        negativity of that film once I finally saw it, as well as how its philosophy
                        runs diametrically opposite to that of the Cayce Readings. In
                        anthroposophical terms, it's the philosophy of Lucifer, and the people show
                        the effects of being under his spell.

                        Show me one principle that can be applied from any of the verbosity in
                        the various channelers' work. Just one. Not "All is One", "All is
                        Consciousness" etc., etc. etc. but something that can be applied in the real
                        world, to work some good in someone's life. Cayce gave out principles of
                        health, how to use castor oil, formulas for many remedies, advised
                        individuals how to walk closer with the Christ, came out with original
                        statements about Atlantis and the origin and destiny of Man not just copied
                        from other peoples' books. Dr. Steiner likewise gave out a spirit-science
                        with an agriculture, a medicine, a system of education, numerous arts like
                        eurythmy, all with exact specifics, not vague generalities that make you
                        feel like you're thinking lofty thoughts but are of no earthly use. What are
                        the fruits of Jane Roberts or JZ Knight or this fellow who thinks he's the
                        reincarnation of Edgar Cayce? Lecturing to people that everything is an
                        illusion? Shrieking at them that they are asleep and they need to wake up
                        and realize they're 'God'? OK, once you realize that, what is next? Going
                        through life smugly feeling superior? Does that show real contact with the
                        divine?

                        Dr. Steiner met up with the same stuff in the Theosophical society, in
                        fact it's why the society came to nothing. As we've been saying here, it's
                        not enough just to open up to spirits, but we have to learn to distinguish
                        between different types of them. Every philosophy that denies external
                        reality and puffs up the ego comes from "Lucifer." Every philosophy that
                        denies the inner human being and says we are just matter comes from
                        "Ahriman."

                        It is incredibly easy to be hypnotized, it takes no effort at all.
                        Similarly, it is very easy to hypnotize yourself. It's simplicity itself to
                        let a fragment of your personality take on a life of its own and be the
                        vehicle for spirits to channel through, or to just consciously pretend that
                        a part of your personality is a separate being and fill it with your own
                        subconscious content. It's no more difficult than Arthur Conan Doyle sitting
                        down and becoming Dr. Watson or Sherlock Holmes for a while to write one of
                        his stories. That doesn't mean it is going to be a channel for the divine,
                        or even for anything good at all. " Test the spirits to see whether they are
                        of God."

                        These are what Dr. Steiner called pathological conditions which have
                        nothing to do with spiritual science. Edgar Cayce was most of the time an
                        exception to this kind of unhealthy fantasy life. If you gave him a false
                        birthdate, he would not be able to attune to you. He was able to describe
                        objective reality in ways that could be verified. Try getting any of these
                        people to do that successfully, even once. Do the simplest test like asking
                        them to verify something you know from another source. They can't do it.
                        All they can do is hand out metaphysical rubbish which is circular
                        reasoning, e.g., "everything is an illusion because it's a thought, so it's
                        only in your mind," never mind that your mind would never start thinking
                        about anything if there weren't something other than itself. (Dr. Steiner
                        showed the flaws in this philosophy in his Philosophy of Freedom, by the
                        way.)

                        The real danger about all this New Age stuff is that it is dualistic, in
                        other words it encourages you to think "Well, there's what I know, and then
                        there's this other side that I can't know but only speculate about, but
                        so-and-so knows it and I can have faith in him." Spiritual science denies
                        anything unknowable by the human being, any "limits to knowledge". It is not
                        a faith. When we apply it in education, in medicine or in whatever field, we
                        are not limited to to BELIEVING whatever some guy named Steiner said. We can
                        take in its elementary knowledge the same as with any other science, and
                        increase our direct knowledge through meditation and contemplation. There is
                        no need to separate off a part of your personality and use it to declare
                        things to be true that everybody is required to believe on your say so.
                        There is no need to go into a trance state like a medium.

                        There is also no need to tell other people what your personal Karma is.
                        Suppose I were to tell you that I was the reincarnation of someone famous,
                        in fact was famous into different lifetimes? Could I have any objection if
                        you your yawned and gave me a big "So what?" After all, what does it matter
                        now? How much would Steiner have accomplished if he just went around telling
                        people he was the reincarnation of Aristotle? How about if, in his
                        lectures, he pretended to go into trance and spoke as Aristotle and just
                        said well this is the way it is, I know it absolutely, and you have to
                        accept it. Would we have the Steiner schools today, the biodynamic farms,
                        the medicine? Not a chance, because free human beings who think for
                        themselves would have avoided him like the plague. All he would ever have
                        attracted is other people with mental problems, as it is in the New Age
                        cults of today.

                        -starman

                        _________________________________________________________________
                        MSN Shopping has everything on your holiday list. Get expert picks by style,
                        age, and price. Try it!
                        http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8000,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=200601&tcode=wlmtagline
                      • Nina
                        ... not believe the negativity of that film once I finally saw it, as well as how its philosophy runs diametrically opposite to that of the Cayce Readings. In
                        Message 11 of 24 , Nov 25, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "Durward Starman" <DrStarman@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          >in black and white, her opinions and the wrong opinions.) I could
                          not believe the negativity of that film once I finally saw it, as
                          well as how its philosophy runs diametrically opposite to that of
                          the Cayce Readings. In anthroposophical terms, it's the philosophy
                          of Lucifer, and the people show the effects of being under his
                          spell. Show me one principle that can be applied from any of the
                          verbosity in the various channelers' work. Just one. Not "All is
                          One", "All is Consciousness" etc., etc. etc. but something that can
                          be applied in the real world, to work some good in someone's life.
                          Cayce gave out principles of health, how to use castor oil,
                          formulas for many remedies, advised individuals how to walk closer
                          with the Christ, came out with original statements about Atlantis
                          and the origin and destiny of Man not just copied from other
                          peoples' books. Dr. Steiner likewise gave out a spirit-science
                          > with an agriculture, a medicine, a system of education, numerous
                          arts like eurythmy, all with exact specifics, not vague generalities
                          that make you feel like you're thinking lofty thoughts but are of
                          no earthly use. What are the fruits of Jane Roberts or JZ Knight or
                          this fellow who thinks he's the reincarnation of Edgar Cayce?
                          Lecturing to people that everything is an illusion? Shrieking at
                          them that they are asleep and they need to wake up
                          > and realize they're 'God'? OK, once you realize that, what is
                          next? Going through life smugly feeling superior? Does that show
                          real contact with the divine?
                          >
                          > not enough just to open up to spirits, but we have to learn to
                          distinguish between different types of them. Every philosophy that
                          denies external reality and puffs up the ego comes from "Lucifer."
                          Every philosophy that denies the inner human being and says we are
                          just matter comes from "Ahriman."
                          >
                          > It is incredibly easy to be hypnotized, it takes no effort at
                          all.
                          > Similarly, it is very easy to hypnotize yourself. It's simplicity
                          itself to
                          > These are what Dr. Steiner called pathological conditions which
                          have nothing to do with spiritual science. Edgar Cayce was most of
                          the time an exception to this kind of unhealthy fantasy life. If you
                          gave him a false birthdate, he would not be able to attune to you.
                          He was able to describe objective reality in ways that could be
                          verified. Try getting any of these people to do that successfully,
                          even once. Do the simplest test like asking them to verify something
                          you know from another source. They can't do it.
                          >Spiritual science denies anything unknowable by the human being,
                          any "limits to knowledge".
                          > increase our direct knowledge through meditation and
                          contemplation. There is no need to separate off a part of your
                          personality and use it to declare things to be true that everybody
                          is required to believe on your say so.
                          have to
                          > Would we have the Steiner schools today, the biodynamic farms,
                          > the medicine? Not a chance, because free human beings who think
                          for themselves would have avoided him like the plague. All he would
                          ever have attracted is other people with mental problems, as it is
                          in the New Age cults of today.
                          -starman

                          Dear Starman,
                          Your post came in next to Wilcock"s and he spoke of Luciferic
                          negative path too. Do note difference in our receptivity but expect
                          we have different backgrounds. You are highly educated with strong
                          abilities and have no doubt seen more than the norm there in Va
                          Bch. Steiner is the penultimate for you.
                          Wilcock's client readings come across to me as highly beneficial.
                          (I studied social wk /Jungian psychology.)In one client reading, he
                          used this watermelon metaphor:"For when you split open the
                          watermelon of the higher realms for the first time, you will
                          discover how sweet it is. We only use the watermelon metaphor to
                          illustrate the waters of life or the spirit,and that red or pink
                          color that is then associated with the heart."
                          Another reading: "In this particular case, I heard that the client
                          was a poet and musician during the intake, but we had not gone into
                          any detail regarding the content of these poems and songs.
                          Nevertheless, the entire reading was crafted around highly specific,
                          detailed information culled directly from the content of her poems
                          and songs. She reported that there were "at least twenty" different
                          highly specific references to her creative works in the reading,
                          exhausting any possibility of denial that a higher source of
                          intelligence was involved.The entire reading from beginning to
                          ending felt as if it were directly from her higher self, finally
                          having the chance to speak to her directly through me and explain
                          its agenda. What makes this so interesting is not simply that there
                          was a telepathic remote viewing of the content of her own language
                          of symbolism and metaphor, but that the reading actually explained
                          the spiritual meanings behind the poems and songs that she had been
                          guided to write, without ever fully knowing what their deeper
                          meanings were.
                          (my insert - This had special meaning for me so immediately copied
                          the entire reading!)
                          David continues:"One of these songs was specifically about a dragon
                          that guarded an emerald city, and a classic sword-wielding hero who
                          finally had to become the dragon in order to slay it. This is the
                          first time that the readings have ever mentioned an "emerald city"
                          that I am aware of, and as the words came out of my mouth I had no
                          idea that they had such a specific meaning and value to the client.
                          Nonetheless, if I had been listening more carefully and/or were not
                          in trance, I might have noticed that the client was in tears the
                          entire time."
                          Please see http://divinecosmos.com if you want to read the two
                          readings, go to search, type in numbers only 6/21/00(for watermelon
                          analogy) and 5/31/03 (for emerald city which he has titled "The
                          Hero's Journey").
                          Have always had an innate trust and as the clairvoyant lady here
                          tells me, "You came in to help clear up some of the confusion that
                          exists in the spiritual realm." Back when I was 21 another lady
                          Elizabeth made predictions that came true - like going to Univ of
                          Chicago twice...yes, never would have thought would return there
                          when divorce sent me fr my home in Charlottesville. Had tried grad
                          school following footsteps of Harmon Bro dissertation on Cayce in
                          History of Religions, but I'm extremely far from NatMerit whiz kid
                          Dr. Bro was. When realized too hard(which path Divinity or Human
                          Development/leading hypnosis Erika Fromm there, etc and not the
                          kind of mind that can feedback large bodies of information) gained
                          more from parapsychology journals at the time. Left so sad, told her
                          thought I'd learn something from that place. She said, "Don't worry,
                          you will". Disbelief, thought surely wrong on that one!But when I
                          had to flee decade later, that is where I chose to go! Made contact
                          with Dr. Bro in 94 /ended up moving to Boston to study with him and
                          his wife at Pilgrim Institute. When I'd first asked Eliz if I'd get
                          into UC, she said yes, but asked if I'd ever considered going to
                          Boston because that would be very good place for me.Of course told
                          her "No" in 81...but she proved to be correct!
                          Learned flexiblity. My ex-husband was initiate of surat shabd
                          yoga and I gained from this path as well. When went back to Chicago,
                          intended grad social wk but bk "Shamans,Mystics, and Doctors" in
                          cellophane at bookstore talked to me. Bought it and saw author was
                          teaching course right then "Therapeutic Systems Across
                          Cultures"...that is how got pulled back into the Divinity
                          School...Dr.Kakar had entire chapter about my ex's path in his book!
                          Was special student and he advised me not to undertake credit due to
                          emotional upheaval of divorce/care of two small children. It was
                          there from those hallowed halls that I had the blessed opportunity
                          to sit in Dr. McGinn's Christian Mysticism class. Would run home
                          from class with tears in my eyes I was so happy!
                          Had a class w/Adela Collins on Jewish and Christian Apocalypses.
                          Gave her copy of Revelation Commentary that Everett Irion had put
                          together. She had written her own book about Revelation and her own
                          take of the combat myth, all geared toward geographical/political
                          locations,etc, etc, etc.
                          Wrote the above mainly to hope to illustrate I'm not a dingbat.
                          I can only imagine the high level of responsibility that goes along
                          with being a leader.Steiner is penultimate for you. Agree, direct
                          knowledge is best. Sometimes the world is far more beautiful when
                          we look to see the goodness there. I can be detective and
                          policewoman too but these times are calling in high level help. How
                          else are we to know Cayce is back, therefore confirm his readings
                          prediciton, if we are not given the ability to hear about it?
                          When you shared about J.Z.Knight and how she chose her name ,
                          zebra, black and white...made association with friend of mine and
                          the Tao symbol. She is a nurse/ I Ching student and moved here same
                          wk I started Wilcock group, had lived in Va Bch cause loved Cayce
                          too.(we got to listen to audio readings together!) Remarkable
                          thing was, she had dream where she was in my garage and noticed a
                          bat right next to the light switch, she was afraid of it, and was
                          told "Nina's not afraid of bats, she knows about them." This was
                          incredible to me! Even better , she told me it was this very
                          feminine bat that almost had butterfly wings! Immediately shared
                          with her the Mayan bat info and how her gentle bat seemed indicative
                          of the more peaceful path(not adreanl response)...That simply made
                          me weep...Isn't that what we all want? Yes, let's watch for
                          deceptions, guard our own thoughts, meditate and pray, create
                          peacefulness within so there can be peace outside ...
                          Love is a force that is not easily defined by fancy terminology.
                          Believe it has to be experienced - We agree on more than we
                          disagree, the difference does not matter to me. NINA

                          "If I feel within my heart
                          The Spirit speaks its own true word
                          About the human being, loved by him
                          Through all time and eternity



                          >
                          > _________________________________________________________________
                          > MSN Shopping has everything on your holiday list. Get expert picks
                          by style,
                          > age, and price. Try it!
                          > http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?
                          ctId=8000,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=200601&tcode=wlmtagline
                          >
                        • Durward Starman
                          ... . How else are we to know Cayce is back, therefore confirm his readings ... *******Don t really care, Leonardo da Vinci might be back but I would only
                          Message 12 of 24 , Nov 25, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            >Subject: [steiner] Re: People who fantasize being the reincarnation of
                            >famous people or "channel"
                            *******Show me one principle that can be applied from any of the
                            >verbosity in the various 'channelers' work. Just one. Not "All is
                            >One", "All is Consciousness" etc., etc. etc. but something that can
                            >be applied in the real world, to work some good in someone's life.
                            >Cayce gave out principles of health, how to use castor oil,
                            >formulas for many remedies, advised individuals how to walk closer
                            >with the Christ, came out with original statements about Atlantis
                            >and the origin and destiny of Man not just copied from other
                            >peoples' books. Dr. Steiner likewise gave out a spirit-science
                            > > with an agriculture, a medicine, a system of education, numerous
                            >arts like eurythmy, all with exact specifics, not vague generalities
                            >that make you feel like you're thinking lofty thoughts but are of
                            >no earthly use. What are the fruits of Jane Roberts or JZ Knight or
                            >this fellow who thinks he's the reincarnation of Edgar Cayce?
                            >
                            > >
                            > > These are what Dr. Steiner called pathological conditions which
                            >have nothing to do with spiritual science. Edgar Cayce was most of
                            >the time an exception to this kind of unhealthy fantasy life. If you
                            >gave him a false birthdate, he would not be able to attune to you.
                            >He was able to describe objective reality in ways that could be
                            >verified. Try getting any of these people to do that successfully,
                            >even once. Do the simplest test like asking them to verify something
                            >you know from another source. They can't do it.

                            >Nina wrote:
                            >Dear Starman,
                            . How else are we to know Cayce is back, therefore confirm his readings
                            >prediciton, if we are not given the ability to hear about it?

                            *******Don't really care, Leonardo da Vinci might be back but I would only
                            appreciate it if he was a good artist. And if he was, what would it matter
                            who he was before?


                            > Wilcock's readings ...." if I had been listening more carefully and/or
                            >were not
                            >in trance....."


                            *******Is Dave claiming to be going into trance now?????? That's a new one!
                            Well, if so, I'd be happy to test him by putting a needle through his hand
                            after giving him a suggestion to not feel pain or bleed, as can be done with
                            anyone really in a trance---- and was done with Cayce several times. :-)

                            I have a pretty good idea that #1, he'd never agree to it and #2, what
                            the results of the experiment would be.

                            Pity he didn't realize that someone in trance wouldn't be listening
                            "less" or "more" but not able to hear at ALL.

                            But I'd prefer to drop the subject of people who claim to go into trance,
                            fake or otherwise. It has nothing to do with spiritual science or the
                            purpose of this list. Steiner warned us many times that one going into
                            trance is taken over by an Ahrimanic being and that the information coming
                            through such a source cannot be truste ----- so, even if someone is a real
                            trance psychic like Cayce, their information is flawed, as thousands of
                            examples of which can be found in the Cayce Readings. (Look, for instance,
                            at the failed 'earth changes' predictions-----I have a whole analysis of
                            these I could post---- the readings on Hitler, on the Lindbergh baby
                            kidnapping, the fake angel 'Halaliel' speaking throu Cayce, the Texas oil
                            well venture that failed miserably, the readings on buried treasure, the
                            medical readings for people already dead, saying no one of a mixed race
                            could be trusted, the constant contradictions of one reading with others,
                            etc., etc. These have been ignored because the Cayce family was running the
                            show until this year, but even his two sons felt they had to address some of
                            the glaring faults and did so in a book called "The Outer Limits of Edgar
                            Cayce's Power." Naturally, though, they didn't examine them critically
                            enough to hurt sales of all the other books about him.;-> )

                            When Cayce invoked the protection of the Christ, which he always tried to
                            do when giving medical readings, the information would frequently be
                            reliable ---- but many, many times that was not sufficient to restrain the
                            deviant Ahrimanic source. Steiner's work is far more reliable. Cayce was
                            meant to be a waking clairvoyant like Steiner, but his own karma prevented
                            him from being able to be such. He was dependent on others to give
                            suggestions. If those others had understood about Lucifer and Ahriman, they
                            might have been able to recognize the evil sources speaking through him at
                            times---- some did anyway---- and work out some of the laws affecting the
                            reliability of psychic phenomena occurring through dimmed consciousness, but
                            instead they regarded every word as divine and glossed over or ignored the
                            many, many obvious errors and inconsistencies.

                            I stay with the Cayce organization for the sake of the valuable medical
                            information, but regard it as a mixed bag with many negative tendencies,
                            like the blind faith of many followers of his--- and have long seen his HQ
                            be a magnet for phony psychics who build on peoples' faith in Cayce to
                            feather thei own nests, like Gordon Michael Scallion, Paul Solomon, and
                            others who you've never heard of----deservingly.


                            Nina wrote: >> .Steiner is penultimate for you.

                            ******* More to the point, he's the purpose of this list. We're here to
                            study his work which does not involve reduced consciousness like trances,
                            only increased consciousness.


                            > you shared about J.Z.Knight and how she chose her name ,zebra, black
                            >and white...

                            *******No,I don't think SHE chose it! Iit was given to her because of her
                            one-sided self-righteousness. And that was before she put that big ego into
                            a personality fragment and started calling it 'Ramtha", as the alcoholic
                            Jane Roberts years before had done with her imaginary 'Seth'.


                            Now how about some discussion of anthroposophy, please?

                            Starman

                            www.DrStarman.com

                            _________________________________________________________________
                            Get free, personalized commercial-free online radio with MSN Radio powered
                            by Pandora http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001
                          • Nina
                            ... Sounds fair! Reminds me of why came here in first place, to look into this man that made reference to the special consciousness of Luke! Yes, will go back
                            Message 13 of 24 , Nov 25, 2006
                            • 0 Attachment
                              --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "Durward Starman" <DrStarman@...>
                              wrote:
                              >....anthroposophy,please? Starman

                              Sounds fair! Reminds me of why came here in first place, to look into
                              this man that made reference to the special consciousness of Luke!
                              Yes, will go back to that book! NINA
                              Hard to see Cayce catalog and NOT see "SEER OUT OF SEASON" listed...
                            • thepathofthesunflower
                              ... reincarnation of ... generalities ... or ... which ... you ... something ... readings ... would only ... matter ... carefully and/or ... new one! ... his
                              Message 14 of 24 , Nov 27, 2006
                              • 0 Attachment
                                --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "Durward Starman" <DrStarman@...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > >Subject: [steiner] Re: People who fantasize being the
                                reincarnation of
                                > >famous people or "channel"
                                > *******Show me one principle that can be applied from any of the
                                > >verbosity in the various 'channelers' work. Just one. Not "All is
                                > >One", "All is Consciousness" etc., etc. etc. but something that can
                                > >be applied in the real world, to work some good in someone's life.
                                > >Cayce gave out principles of health, how to use castor oil,
                                > >formulas for many remedies, advised individuals how to walk closer
                                > >with the Christ, came out with original statements about Atlantis
                                > >and the origin and destiny of Man not just copied from other
                                > >peoples' books. Dr. Steiner likewise gave out a spirit-science
                                > > > with an agriculture, a medicine, a system of education, numerous
                                > >arts like eurythmy, all with exact specifics, not vague
                                generalities
                                > >that make you feel like you're thinking lofty thoughts but are of
                                > >no earthly use. What are the fruits of Jane Roberts or JZ Knight
                                or
                                > >this fellow who thinks he's the reincarnation of Edgar Cayce?
                                > >
                                > > >
                                > > > These are what Dr. Steiner called pathological conditions
                                which
                                > >have nothing to do with spiritual science. Edgar Cayce was most of
                                > >the time an exception to this kind of unhealthy fantasy life. If
                                you
                                > >gave him a false birthdate, he would not be able to attune to you.
                                > >He was able to describe objective reality in ways that could be
                                > >verified. Try getting any of these people to do that successfully,
                                > >even once. Do the simplest test like asking them to verify
                                something
                                > >you know from another source. They can't do it.
                                >
                                > >Nina wrote:
                                > >Dear Starman,
                                > . How else are we to know Cayce is back, therefore confirm his
                                readings
                                > >prediciton, if we are not given the ability to hear about it?
                                >
                                > *******Don't really care, Leonardo da Vinci might be back but I
                                would only
                                > appreciate it if he was a good artist. And if he was, what would it
                                matter
                                > who he was before?
                                >
                                >
                                > > Wilcock's readings ...." if I had been listening more
                                carefully and/or
                                > >were not
                                > >in trance....."
                                >
                                >
                                > *******Is Dave claiming to be going into trance now?????? That's a
                                new one!
                                > Well, if so, I'd be happy to test him by putting a needle through
                                his hand
                                > after giving him a suggestion to not feel pain or bleed, as can be
                                done with
                                > anyone really in a trance---- and was done with Cayce several
                                times. :-)
                                >
                                > I have a pretty good idea that #1, he'd never agree to it and
                                #2, what
                                > the results of the experiment would be.
                                >
                                > Pity he didn't realize that someone in trance wouldn't be
                                listening
                                > "less" or "more" but not able to hear at ALL.
                                >
                                > But I'd prefer to drop the subject of people who claim to go
                                into trance,
                                > fake or otherwise. It has nothing to do with spiritual science or
                                the
                                > purpose of this list. Steiner warned us many times that one going
                                into
                                > trance is taken over by an Ahrimanic being and that the information
                                coming
                                > through such a source cannot be truste ----- so, even if someone
                                is a real
                                > trance psychic like Cayce, their information is flawed, as
                                thousands of
                                > examples of which can be found in the Cayce Readings. (Look, for
                                instance,
                                > at the failed 'earth changes' predictions-----I have a whole
                                analysis of
                                > these I could post---- the readings on Hitler, on the Lindbergh
                                baby
                                > kidnapping, the fake angel 'Halaliel' speaking throu Cayce, the
                                Texas oil
                                > well venture that failed miserably, the readings on buried
                                treasure, the
                                > medical readings for people already dead, saying no one of a mixed
                                race
                                > could be trusted, the constant contradictions of one reading with
                                others,
                                > etc., etc. These have been ignored because the Cayce family was
                                running the
                                > show until this year, but even his two sons felt they had to
                                address some of
                                > the glaring faults and did so in a book called "The Outer Limits of
                                Edgar
                                > Cayce's Power." Naturally, though, they didn't examine them
                                critically
                                > enough to hurt sales of all the other books about him.;-> )
                                >
                                > When Cayce invoked the protection of the Christ, which he always
                                tried to
                                > do when giving medical readings, the information would frequently
                                be
                                > reliable ---- but many, many times that was not sufficient to
                                restrain the
                                > deviant Ahrimanic source. Steiner's work is far more reliable.
                                Cayce was
                                > meant to be a waking clairvoyant like Steiner, but his own karma
                                prevented
                                > him from being able to be such. He was dependent on others to give
                                > suggestions. If those others had understood about Lucifer and
                                Ahriman, they
                                > might have been able to recognize the evil sources speaking through
                                him at
                                > times---- some did anyway---- and work out some of the laws
                                affecting the
                                > reliability of psychic phenomena occurring through dimmed
                                consciousness, but
                                > instead they regarded every word as divine and glossed over or
                                ignored the
                                > many, many obvious errors and inconsistencies.
                                >
                                > I stay with the Cayce organization for the sake of the valuable
                                medical
                                > information, but regard it as a mixed bag with many negative
                                tendencies,
                                > like the blind faith of many followers of his--- and have long seen
                                his HQ
                                > be a magnet for phony psychics who build on peoples' faith in Cayce
                                to
                                > feather thei own nests, like Gordon Michael Scallion, Paul Solomon,
                                and
                                > others who you've never heard of----deservingly.
                                >
                                >
                                > Nina wrote: >> .Steiner is penultimate for you.
                                >
                                > ******* More to the point, he's the purpose of this list. We're
                                here to
                                > study his work which does not involve reduced consciousness like
                                trances,
                                > only increased consciousness.
                                >
                                >
                                > > you shared about J.Z.Knight and how she chose her
                                name ,zebra, black
                                > >and white...
                                >
                                > *******No,I don't think SHE chose it! Iit was given to her because
                                of her
                                > one-sided self-righteousness. And that was before she put that big
                                ego into
                                > a personality fragment and started calling it 'Ramtha", as the
                                alcoholic
                                > Jane Roberts years before had done with her imaginary 'Seth'.
                                >
                                >
                                > Now how about some discussion of anthroposophy, please?
                                >
                                > Starman
                                >
                                > www.DrStarman.com
                                >
                                > _________________________________________________________________

                                um well; James has given a lot of food to think about today. I
                                appreciate what you have posted here James. The pieces of the puzzle
                                towards a complete picture; if it is ever complete that is.

                                Regarding this topic - I don't think we should look towards other
                                people for 'channelling' whether they might be so and so come back or
                                whether so and so is channelling this so and so. I think we should
                                look at ourselves and within ourselves. Because we are of Spirit and
                                for this we should trust in ourselves as being part of Spirit
                                consciousness. No matter what psychic abilities one has or doesn't
                                have. We are first Spirit and then second physical. True?

                                Spiritual leaders across the board : where do you lead?

                                The question is; is there more than one Spirit consciousness? Is this
                                part of the Planetary Beings and depending where our station is from
                                whence we project into the physical?

                                Caryn
                              • Nina
                                ... puzzle towards a complete picture; if it is ever complete that is. ... or whether so and so is channelling this so and so. I think we should look at
                                Message 15 of 24 , Nov 27, 2006
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  > > Now how about some discussion of anthroposophy, please?
                                  > > Starman

                                  > um well; James has given a lot of food to think about today. I
                                  > appreciate what you have posted here James. The pieces of the
                                  puzzle towards a complete picture; if it is ever complete that is.
                                  > Regarding this topic - I don't think we should look towards other
                                  > people for 'channelling' whether they might be so and so come back
                                  or whether so and so is channelling this so and so. I think we should
                                  look at ourselves and within ourselves. >
                                  > Caryn

                                  Dear Caryn and everyone,
                                  Yes,green pastures/astro offering! Don't think you are crazy! You have
                                  one of the most beautfiul of all screen names...The Path of The
                                  Sunflower!
                                  Good to read James's passages. Have studied some of Helen Palmer's
                                  Enneagram(personality typology which has Sufi roots).Was kind of
                                  turned off by vodka trials to facilitate advancement that I'd read he
                                  used.(my opinion only/know "purpose"/but opposed to drugs on journey
                                  for myself). Also,about feminine sunflowers story shared (funny, yes) -
                                  made me glad came in very average looking without the distractions of
                                  male attractions!

                                  This poem by I.B.N. Arabi is a masterpiece:

                                  "How wonderful a garden in the fire,
                                  My heart transmutes itself to all forms:
                                  a meadow for wild gazelles,
                                  a monastery for Christian monks,
                                  a temple for pagan idols,
                                  the Ka'aba for Muslim pilgrims,
                                  tablets for Jewish Law,
                                  And pages for the Qu'ran
                                  I proclaim the religion of Love,
                                  and wherever it carries me,
                                  this is my creed and my faith."

                                  When reading Ahriman file, noted mention that Islam was opposed to
                                  Christianity.
                                  My dearest friends are a mixed marriage of Islam and Baptist. Tried
                                  sharing work of Stan Tenen to help them. He has wk on Secret of the
                                  Hebrew letters http://www.meru.org/Press/Atlantisrising.html
                                  The Tree of Abraham
                                  http://www.meru.org/coast/TreeofAbraham.html
                                  Sufi Moslem(Geometry of Rumi's descrip of Sufi Round dance)
                                  http://www.meru.org/Sufi/rnddance.html
                                  Continuous Creation Model
                                  http://www.meru.org/contin.html
                                  Sources of Intelligent Design for "Coast to Coast"
                                  http://www.meru.org/coast/index.html
                                  Light in Meeting Tent
                                  http://www.meru.org/lightintent/lightin.html
                                  Some Notes on the Logarithmic and Golden Mean Spirals
                                  http://www.meru.org/coast/goldmean.html
                                  Language and Gesture
                                  http://www.meru.org/Gestures/gestures.html(this one mentions the wk of
                                  Susan Goldin-Meadow which may be of special interest/curative
                                  ed/movement). Remember her name fr UnivChicago/treat to see her
                                  research.

                                  Arguelles "Time and the Technosphere:The Law of Time in Human
                                  Affairs"...After our Mayan sharing, did crack open. He has quite a
                                  marriage going with Islam, from the place of peace and "submission to
                                  the will of God".
                                  He feels that the Quran is the criterion for evaluating the spiritual
                                  progress of human existence on this Earth inclusive of man't ability
                                  to read the proofs of nature as manifestations of God's wisdom and to
                                  comport himself within this nature. the biospheric life-support
                                  system, in a manner consistent with the truth. It is far too complex
                                  for me to try to summarize here.
                                  This is from the introduction:"That the new, global dialectic is found
                                  in the tension between the forces of globalization(materialism)on the
                                  one hand, and that of the civilization of Islam(spirituality) on the
                                  other, is now a well-documented fact."
                                  Please share about higher Beings, Powers, etc. NINA
                                • Durward Starman
                                  ... *******There is (are) indeed. As the Doctor said so many times, to have real knowledge you have to progress from thinking about just spirit in general to
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Nov 27, 2006
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    >The question is; is there more than one Spirit consciousness? Is this
                                    >part of the Planetary Beings and depending where our station is from
                                    >whence we project into the physical?
                                    >
                                    >Caryn


                                    *******There is (are) indeed. As the Doctor said so many times, to have real
                                    knowledge you have to progress from thinking about just 'spirit' in general
                                    to being able to determine what kind of spirit is manifesting in each case.
                                    Judge them by their fruits.

                                    -starman

                                    _________________________________________________________________
                                    View Athlete�s Collections with Live Search
                                    http://sportmaps.live.com/index.html?source=hmemailtaglinenov06&FORM=MGAC01
                                  • Mary Ellen Armstrong
                                    I have many interesting posts to submit, but it seems the powers that be pick and choose what posts are shown.....I know from whence I speak, as I have
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Nov 27, 2006
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                            I have many interesting posts to submit, but it seems the "powers that be" pick and choose what posts are shown.....I know from whence I speak, as I have intentionally used this forum in a good way, only to have posts coveniently lost into the ethers....
                                            Not to sound harsh, but I thought the Nazi era was pretty much over !!!!  Come on guys, lighten up....Even Anthroposophists have senses of humour, albeit some more than others....Maybe the Chapel Hill crowd can learn a thing or two.....Peace, Mary Ellen Armstrong.....PS- I thought the Witch hunts ended long ago.....

                                      Nina <emeraldnina@...> wrote:

                                      > > Now how about some discussion of anthroposophy, please?
                                      > > Starman

                                      > um well; James has given a lot of food to think about today. I
                                      > appreciate what you have posted here James. The pieces of the
                                      puzzle towards a complete picture; if it is ever complete that is.
                                      > Regarding this topic - I don't think we should look towards other
                                      > people for 'channelling' whether they might be so and so come back
                                      or whether so and so is channelling this so and so. I think we should
                                      look at ourselves and within ourselves. >
                                      > Caryn

                                      Dear Caryn and everyone,
                                      Yes,green pastures/astro offering! Don't think you are crazy! You have
                                      one of the most beautfiul of all screen names...The Path of The
                                      Sunflower!
                                      Good to read James's passages. Have studied some of Helen Palmer's
                                      Enneagram(personali ty typology which has Sufi roots).Was kind of
                                      turned off by vodka trials to facilitate advancement that I'd read he
                                      used.(my opinion only/know "purpose"/but opposed to drugs on journey
                                      for myself). Also,about feminine sunflowers story shared (funny, yes) -
                                      made me glad came in very average looking without the distractions of
                                      male attractions!

                                      This poem by I.B.N. Arabi is a masterpiece:

                                      "How wonderful a garden in the fire,
                                      My heart transmutes itself to all forms:
                                      a meadow for wild gazelles,
                                      a monastery for Christian monks,
                                      a temple for pagan idols,
                                      the Ka'aba for Muslim pilgrims,
                                      tablets for Jewish Law,
                                      And pages for the Qu'ran
                                      I proclaim the religion of Love,
                                      and wherever it carries me,
                                      this is my creed and my faith."

                                      When reading Ahriman file, noted mention that Islam was opposed to
                                      Christianity.
                                      My dearest friends are a mixed marriage of Islam and Baptist. Tried
                                      sharing work of Stan Tenen to help them. He has wk on Secret of the
                                      Hebrew letters http://www.meru. org/Press/ Atlantisrising. html
                                      The Tree of Abraham
                                      http://www.meru. org/coast/ TreeofAbraham. html
                                      Sufi Moslem(Geometry of Rumi's descrip of Sufi Round dance)
                                      http://www.meru. org/Sufi/ rnddance. html
                                      Continuous Creation Model
                                      http://www.meru. org/contin. html
                                      Sources of Intelligent Design for "Coast to Coast"
                                      http://www.meru. org/coast/ index.html
                                      Light in Meeting Tent
                                      http://www.meru. org/lightintent/ lightin.html
                                      Some Notes on the Logarithmic and Golden Mean Spirals
                                      http://www.meru. org/coast/ goldmean. html
                                      Language and Gesture
                                      http://www.meru. org/Gestures/ gestures. html(this one mentions the wk of
                                      Susan Goldin-Meadow which may be of special interest/curative
                                      ed/movement) . Remember her name fr UnivChicago/ treat to see her
                                      research.

                                      Arguelles "Time and the Technosphere: The Law of Time in Human
                                      Affairs"...After our Mayan sharing, did crack open. He has quite a
                                      marriage going with Islam, from the place of peace and "submission to
                                      the will of God".
                                      He feels that the Quran is the criterion for evaluating the spiritual
                                      progress of human existence on this Earth inclusive of man't ability
                                      to read the proofs of nature as manifestations of God's wisdom and to
                                      comport himself within this nature. the biospheric life-support
                                      system, in a manner consistent with the truth. It is far too complex
                                      for me to try to summarize here.
                                      This is from the introduction: "That the new, global dialectic is found
                                      in the tension between the forces of globalization( materialism) on the
                                      one hand, and that of the civilization of Islam(spirituality) on the
                                      other, is now a well-documented fact."
                                      Please share about higher Beings, Powers, etc. NINA



                                      Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.


                                      Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.

                                    • thepathofthesunflower
                                      ... the powers that be pick and choose what posts are shown.....I know from whence I speak, as I have intentionally used this forum in a good way, only to
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Nov 28, 2006
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, Mary Ellen Armstrong
                                        <maryellenrayofsun@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > I have many interesting posts to submit, but it seems
                                        the "powers that be" pick and choose what posts are shown.....I know
                                        from whence I speak, as I have intentionally used this forum in a
                                        good way, only to have posts coveniently lost into the ethers....
                                        > Not to sound harsh, but I thought the Nazi era was pretty
                                        much over !!!! Come on guys, lighten up....Even Anthroposophists
                                        have senses of humour, albeit some more than others....Maybe the
                                        Chapel Hill crowd can learn a thing or two.....Peace, Mary Ellen
                                        Armstrong.....PS- I thought the Witch hunts ended long ago.....
                                        >

                                        >um well; James has given a lot of food to think about today. I
                                        appreciate what you have posted here James. The pieces of the
                                        puzzle towards a complete picture; if it is ever complete that is.
                                        Regarding this topic - I don't think we should look towards other
                                        people for 'channelling' whether they might be so and so come back
                                        or whether so and so is channelling this so and so. I think we should
                                        look at ourselves and within ourselves.<
                                        Caryn

                                        Hi Mary Ellen

                                        Please do not get me wrong here. There are genuine mediums. My point
                                        is; Starman made a post under another topic and he mentioned
                                        hypnotism. A good topic. An unexperienced medium might think they
                                        are contacting a genuine spirit only to find it is a deceptive one
                                        playing tricks. One might announce to the world they are the
                                        reincarnation of Edgar Cayce or someone else but they might be under
                                        the influences of the same deceptive realm.

                                        So it is crucial to discern within ourselves what we feel to believe
                                        is correct. It is also important to be awake an aware of this
                                        manipulation called hypnotism so as not to be deceived by discarnate
                                        or incarnate spirits. To keep oneself clear from said influences in
                                        order to appreciate ones own pure spirit or attain to keep one's
                                        spirit clean/pure from outside influences as these.

                                        But as said there are geninue mediums who know what they are doing
                                        and have the ability to protect themselves from mischievous sorts;
                                        like I should imagine you do Mary Ellen.

                                        Rudolf Steiner spoke quite in depth about the spirit world living
                                        around us. And how we do a service reading to them and I must say
                                        when I read great authors who have passed over I often imagine I feel
                                        their presence reading with me. But this may just be my imagination,
                                        after all. There has been a lot of literature from channellers; Seth,
                                        Michael, Lazarus, Silver Birch for example ... somehow though there
                                        is always a question mark after - is it genuine or is it not - how do
                                        we know where it comes from?

                                        We find the answers that resonant with us within ourselves - first.

                                        Your thoughts Mary Ellen?

                                        Love and peace
                                        Caryn
                                      • thepathofthesunflower
                                        ... this ... from ... have real knowledge you have to progress from thinking about just spirit in general to being able to determine what kind of spirit is
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Nov 28, 2006
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "Durward Starman" <DrStarman@...>
                                          wrote:
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > >The question is; is there more than one Spirit consciousness? Is
                                          this
                                          > >part of the Planetary Beings and depending where our station is
                                          from
                                          > >whence we project into the physical?
                                          > >
                                          > >Caryn
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > *******There is (are) indeed. As the Doctor said so many times, to
                                          have real knowledge you have to progress from thinking about
                                          just 'spirit' in general to being able to determine what kind of
                                          spirit is manifesting in each case. Judge them by their fruits.
                                          >
                                          > -starman
                                          >
                                          > _________________________________________________________________

                                          Indeed, we are walking fruit trees!

                                          Thanks Starman
                                        • Cheeseandsalsa@aol.com
                                          In a message dated 11/25/2006 3:31:42 P.M. Central Standard Time, DrStarman@hotmail.com writes: *******No,I don t think SHE chose it! Iit was given to her
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Dec 6, 2006
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            In a message dated 11/25/2006 3:31:42 P.M. Central Standard Time, DrStarman@... writes:
                                            *******No,I don't think SHE chose it! Iit was given to her because of her
                                            one-sided self-righteousness. And that was before she put that big ego into
                                            a personality fragment and started calling it 'Ramtha", as the alcoholic
                                            Jane Roberts years before had done with her imaginary 'Seth'.

                                            *********Starman, didn't Steiner himself succomb to alcohol to tune out his own psychic stuff?  I don't know enough about Jane Roberts and don't have any interest.
                                             
                                            Ask the wild bee what the druids knew. ~Old English Adage
                                          • Durward Starman
                                            *******There s a story from somewhere that Steiner used alcohol in his thirties to erase the psychic ability he was born with, because he couldn t control it
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Dec 7, 2006
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              *******There's a story from somewhere that Steiner used alcohol in his
                                              thirties to erase the psychic ability he was born with, because he couldn't
                                              control it and so wanted to strart out with none and re-develop it. However,
                                              I've never read he himself saying anything like that---- not even in his
                                              autobiography, written as he lay dying, where you'd think if he'd done
                                              anything like that he wouldn't be shy about admitting it by then.
                                              Unfortunately, there are so many stories about him which arre of doubtful
                                              validity.

                                              Starman

                                              www.DrStarman.com





                                              >From: Cheeseandsalsa@...
                                              >Reply-To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
                                              >To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
                                              >Subject: Re: [steiner] Re: People who "channel"
                                              >Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 01:23:53 EST
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >In a message dated 11/25/2006 3:31:42 P.M. Central Standard Time,
                                              >DrStarman@... writes:
                                              >
                                              >*******No,I don't think SHE chose it! Iit was given to her because of her
                                              >one-sided self-righteousness. And that was before she put that big ego
                                              >into
                                              >a personality fragment and started calling it 'Ramtha", as the alcoholic
                                              >Jane Roberts years before had done with her imaginary 'Seth'.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >*********Starman, didn't Steiner himself succomb to alcohol to tune out
                                              >his
                                              >own psychic stuff? I don't know enough about Jane Roberts and don't have
                                              >any
                                              >interest.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >Ask the wild bee what the druids knew. ~Old English Adage

                                              _________________________________________________________________
                                              Get the latest Windows Live Messenger 8.1 Beta version.�Join now.
                                              http://ideas.live.com
                                            • Nina
                                              ... Dear Starman, Gifted woman (Eliz/told about in earler post re-personal predictions) used to have Shining Lady tv show. My original UC goal was to study
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Dec 9, 2006
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, Cheeseandsalsa@... wrote:
                                                > In a message dated 11/25/2006 3:31:42 P.M. Central Standard Time,
                                                > DrStarman wrote...
                                                > Jane Roberts years before had done with her imaginary Seth 'Starman

                                                Dear Starman,
                                                Gifted woman (Eliz/told about in earler post re-personal
                                                predictions) used to have "Shining Lady" tv show. My original UC
                                                goal was to study her as Dr. Bro had Cayce. As previously stated,
                                                did not have enough "bearings" to succeed. She lived in Ca and I
                                                would not go live there (too afraid of Cayce's predictions). She
                                                hosted seminar w/Drs.Krippner/Cerminara/Hynek. Later, Dr.K told me
                                                she never received recognition she deserved. Reason I'm mentioning
                                                this is because on one of her shows, someone asked about Jane
                                                Roberts. Eliz said she knew her and that "She was quite a remarkable
                                                lady".
                                                Start my book out speaking of her,
                                                "Elizabeth, how do you know these things?"
                                                "Nina, I see pictures, I hear things, I just know."
                                                David Wilcock shares a great deal about Seth online. Best
                                                understanding is that he was a 5th dimensional being in contact with
                                                Jane (he appears to look like grey ET's Streiber wrote about). Shift
                                                of the Ages, Ch 4 on Breath of the Divine and Superstring
                                                Theory/Science of Oneness, Ch 14 on Vedic Yoga, Seth and Multi-
                                                dimensional Cosmology.(Vedic concept of trutis is literally
                                                identical to Consciousness units.)
                                                One quote he shared peaked my curiosity. Am elementary Steiner
                                                student but this one from Seth sounded deep:
                                                "There are electromagnetic structures, so to speak, that are
                                                presently beyond your scientific instruments, units that are the
                                                basic carriers of perception." also, "...the fetus utilizes these
                                                units. So does any consciousness including that of a plant. Cells
                                                are not just responsive to light because this is the order of
                                                things, but because an emotional desire to perceive light is
                                                present."
                                                Have "NATURE'S OPEN SECRET: Intro to Goethe's Scientific Writings"
                                                but have not read it yet.
                                                Felt had to honor Elizabeth and share the above. Any and all Steiner
                                                pointers welcome, will thank you in advance - NINA
                                              • Nina
                                                ... and pray, create peacefulness within so there can be peace outside.NINA Dear Group, Was aware when wrote above that it reflected an attitude of division
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Dec 13, 2006
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  >Dear Starman,
                                                  >I'm not a dingbat.
                                                  > Yes, let's watch for deceptions, guard our own thoughts, meditate
                                                  and pray, create peacefulness within so there can be peace outside.NINA

                                                  Dear Group,
                                                  Was aware when wrote above that it reflected an attitude of division
                                                  (imply that others characterized as "dingbats" are inferior). Wrote
                                                  Starman privately but that did nothing for vibes sent here. Something
                                                  important got lost in shuffle when trying to "justify". "Yes, Nina ,
                                                  follow your own advice."... I'm sorry - ME

                                                  Realize how vast the topic is. When reading "According to Luke", about
                                                  Elijah, Dr.Steiner said:"Elijah was one such being whose I-being could
                                                  not penetrate his physical body. As I said earlier, such personalities
                                                  were said to be "filled with the Holy Spirit." He went on to describe
                                                  more how Elijah was different: "External forces influence the
                                                  developing physical beings to such an extent that the individualities
                                                  in question incarnate as inspired, ecstatic or seemingly spirit-driven
                                                  personalities whose knowledge greatly exceeds the capacity of their
                                                  ordinary intelligence.Every Old Testament prophet was such a
                                                  personality...Personalities like this retreat into solitude from time
                                                  to time. The portion of the I that is used by the persoanlity then
                                                  withdraws, inducing ecstatic and unconscious states, and the spirit
                                                  speaks into the person from outside. Elijah was especially receptive
                                                  to inspiration from above. His actions, his speech, his gestures
                                                  originated not only in the part of the I that inhabited his body but
                                                  also in divine-spiritual beings who disclosed themselves through him."

                                                  "The mighty words Elijah spoke in the ninth century before Christ were
                                                  actually God's words and his gestures God's gestures.Something similar
                                                  was true of John the Baptist, since Elijah's experience was
                                                  reenlivened in him."
                                                  "The Luke Gospel speaks vividly of John, introducing us to the true
                                                  being of another individuality of the early Christian era. We
                                                  familiarize oursselves with the Gospels only when we rise to an
                                                  understanding of each word's intended meaning. Luke's introduction
                                                  states that he will recount the communications of 'independent
                                                  seers'.These independent seers,however, did not simply see events on
                                                  the physical plane. They saw the true circumstances that were
                                                  gradually revealed through the ages."
                                                • Nina
                                                  ... of her one-sided self-righteousness. And that was before she put that big ego into a personality fragment and started calling it Ramtha , as the
                                                  Message 24 of 24 , Jan 24, 2007
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    > In a message dated 11/25/2006 3:31:42 P.M. Central Standard Time,
                                                    > DrStarman@... writes:
                                                    > *******No,I don't think SHE chose it! Iit was given to her because
                                                    of her one-sided self-righteousness. And that was before she put that
                                                    big ego into a personality fragment and started calling it 'Ramtha",
                                                    as the alcoholic Jane Roberts years before had done with her
                                                    imaginary 'Seth'.
                                                    Dear Starman,
                                                    Welcome back! While you were on your honeymoon, I spoke with a friend
                                                    who is on a Seth list. She said Jane Roberts was NOT an alcoholic. Can
                                                    you please share your source with me so can share it with her? Thanks -
                                                    NINA
                                                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.