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RE: [steiner] Delighted new member

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  • Durward Starman
    ******* Welcome to the group, Nina. I am an astrologer here in Virginia Beach who has studied both Cayce and Steiner all my life, in fact taught myself
    Message 1 of 16 , Nov 15, 2006
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      ******* Welcome to the group, Nina. I am an astrologer here in Virginia
      Beach who has studied both Cayce and Steiner all my life, in fact taught
      myself astrology from those two sources. There are two reasons why a lot of
      Steiner people don't like Edgar Cayce: first and most important, because
      Steiner said many times that psychic ability which works through the trance
      state is not reliable. The older generation of anthroposophists applied this
      pretty dogmatically, because so many Theosophists dabbled with trance
      mediums and did not appreciate the dangers.

      But there was a second reason why the older generation particularly was
      negative about Cayce, which I only found out a few years ago: when Cayce
      went on his disastrous oil venture in Texas, a lot of anthroposophists were
      among the people who invested money in it and lost everything, so they
      didn't have too high in opinion of him and his psychic ability ;- >!

      In fact, having the actual readings here at my disposal and being able to
      study them directly for many years has convinced me of the truth of
      Steiner's opinion about psychic ability that works through the trance state.
      Cayce was wrong in many of the things that came through his readings. His
      "earth changes" predictions are perfect examples: none of them came true.
      Only in the past few months has the Cayce organization finally become one
      not run by a member of the Cayce family, so perhaps some objective studies
      will start to be done instead of this literature that makes m sound like a
      saint and a perfect channel of the Divine. I've come to the conclusion that
      his peculiar psychic ability was just as Steiner describes, namely being
      possessed by an Ahrimanic being--- that accounts for the peculiar
      language---- but that, when Edgar Cayce went into trance to help someone who
      was sick, he put the Christ's protection around him and so the information
      was usually reliable (though not always -- -- -- he sometimes would do a
      whole medical reading giving a course of treatment for people already dead).
      When he was just being asked general questions, it was much less so.


      It's true that Edgar Cayce did not mention the two Jesus children, but
      then he also said that Mary was immaculately conceived and then a few years
      later that she wasn't, and many of his other biblical information is dubious
      (an Essene woman supposedly named Judy when there was no such Hebrew name).
      But both Steiner and Edgar Cayce agreed that Holy Scripture is infallible,
      and the Gospels of Luke and Matthew have two completely different
      genealogies for Jesus, or rather his earthly father Joseph. Cayce said the
      same thing that I believe Thomas Aquinas speculated, that one was on the
      father's side and one on the mother's: but that's not really believable
      either, as no Hebrew would trace lineage on the mother's side, and every
      Hebrew name is male including Joseph as the last one. The two birth stories
      are also completely different: in one, the family lives in Nazareth and has
      to travel to Bethlehem for Jesus to be born there, while in the other there
      is no such journey because they live there already; one has the visits of
      the Wise Men and the massacre of the innocents, while the other mentions
      nothing of this but has the visits of the shepherds at the birth, which the
      other story mentions nothing of. All through the Middle Ages there were two
      miracle plays of the two birth stories, the Shepherd's Play and the King's
      Play, as you may have seen in the Waldorf schools. All of what Steiner said
      about the incarnation of Jesus emphasizes him as the Union of an earthly and
      a heavenly stream. I think the Readings also indicated this indirectly by
      saying that " in Christ Jesus do extremes meet."

      What I try to keep in mind is what Dr. Steiner said, that truth is not
      found in one source, but in the harmony of all sources -- -- -- and that all
      initiates say ESSENTIALLY the same truths. If you focus on the similarities
      you will see the essential agreement, where if you focus on the differences
      it will appear that they are much greater than they actually are. For
      instance, I know of no other source that connects Jesus with Zoroaster. Dr.
      Steiner said that Jesus was the reincarnation of Zoroaster, while half a
      world away Edgar Cayce in trance said an earlier incarnation of Jesus was
      Zend, the FATHER of Zoroaster. One could say they disagreed with each other,
      but think how close their information is, coming from two completely
      different sources.

      And of course both also speak of reincarnation, the soul and spirit
      living in the other planetary bodies in between lifetimes, the akashic
      records, etheric and astral bodies, Atlantis and Lemuria, the root races,
      and all the other things which Madame Blavatsky wrote about before either of
      them!

      So once again welcome to the group and feel free to contribute to our
      discussion of all these things. We also traditionally take up a book to
      study for the 12 holy nights which are only about five weeks away now; let
      us know if you have any suggestions.

      Starman

      www.DrStarman.com





      >From: "Nina" <emeraldnina@...>
      >Reply-To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
      >To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: [steiner] Delighted new member
      >Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 10:38:36 -0000
      >
      >Dear Group,
      >Hello! I am single mom/two teens.
      >Have strong Cayce background. Read some Steiner but got taken back
      >early on when did not understand why truth was not seemingly constant
      >(when came across the two Jesus children that RS speaks of...why
      >didn't Cayce speak of it?)...
      >More recently read "According to Luke" and was pleased to discover RS
      >praise given to the clairvoyant consciousness of Luke. According to
      >Cayce Readings, one of Cayce's own earlier incarnations was as Bishop
      >Lucius in the early church and that he had been a relative of Luke and
      >in fact had actually written most of Luke!
      >Loaned that book out 2 yrs ago and person lost it - so will replace
      >and refresh my memory. Scrolled through 72 Amazon pages for Steiner
      >and have quite a long list of wished for titles. Happy to be here and
      >look forward to stretching my understanding! NINA
      >
      >

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    • Cheeseandsalsa@aol.com
      In a message dated 11/15/2006 3:58:34 P.M. Central Standard Time, DrStarman@hotmail.com writes: But both Steiner and Edgar Cayce agreed that Holy Scripture is
      Message 2 of 16 , Nov 15, 2006
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        In a message dated 11/15/2006 3:58:34 P.M. Central Standard Time, DrStarman@... writes:
        But both Steiner and Edgar Cayce agreed that Holy Scripture is infallible
        What is Holy Scripture?  What they cannonized in the Roman Empire?  No way.  So what is Holy Scripture, is it the gnostic gospels as well as different parts of the Bible?  The non-canonized works such as the jewish Apocropha?  Or?  What is deemed Holy Scripture according to Steiner?  Because he spoke quite openly about the Jesuits and their not so keen work and motivations.   I mean the Bible is not infallible is it?  I always assumed in my anthro studies that it is fallible.  The true Christianity has yet to be fulfilled.  True Christianity hasn't been experienced truly so far.  Except in certain places, those of the Rosy Cross.  I enjoyed the last "News for Members" about the students of Michael.  He described the then students and future ones to be young people.  He sought out the young in crowds as well.  He claimed the society is  a young group which they obviously were and are...  I always ponder why Steiner landed in the times that he did?  He landed at such an odd time in some ways.  Not considering Kali Yuga.  Some thoughts, Chantel
      • Nina
        ... wrote: Welcome to the group, Nina. I am an astrologer here in Virginia ... Dear Starman and all, Can you please recommend Steiner astro book for layfolks?
        Message 3 of 16 , Nov 16, 2006
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          --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "Durward Starman" <DrStarman@...>
          wrote: Welcome to the group, Nina. I am an astrologer here in Virginia
          > Beach who has studied both Cayce and Steiner all my life,
          Dear Starman and all,
          Can you please recommend Steiner astro book for layfolks?
          Your bio is one reason decided to join. Did not know Aquinas offered
          explanations re-gospel disparity(why loaned Luke book to theology
          student!. Agree - Zoroaster/Zend, errors, etc.
          Thanks for your insights, especially related to trance work.
          Got out "Christianity and Occult Mysteries..." and noted Heidenreich's
          intro statement closure,"wondered who Steiner was?"
          This summer came across book,"The Reincarnation of Edgar Cayce?"by Wyn
          Free and David Wilcock. Brought to my attention more dynamics involved
          in work of Edgar Cayce. Do believe that he has returned.
          Read Seth's post asking about dreams/anthro.
          Can speak of relevance of own dream last Feb(before read book).
          On birthday had lucid dream/taken to Va Bch,talking to mother of
          Everett Irion(important Cayce author). Made association had heard
          Irion yrs ago with own mother (she may have larger role behind
          figure)..glorious sunrise/would've gone running beach w/music but next
          knew was underwater in car and only made it out carrying "Angel" our
          Chihuahua pup.Same night daughter dreamed I was preg and gave birth to
          many babies. (Told her no more babies but that babies can mean new
          creation...thought dovetailed with mine since something new was
          bursting forth with symbol of Angel. Have research based on Irion.
          (Was grad student of Cayce biographer Harmon Bro /past 4 yrs/extensive
          dream journal)
          Both dreams had mult-valent symbols. Once read "Reincarntion of EC",
          believe was shown he is back. This man, David Wilcock, has
          www.ascension2000.com
          Question what would have been given in dream if did not have personal
          dog named Angel (re-Lee's post mental pictures and intuition).
          Clairvoyant felt Angel represented unconditonal love that saves...yes,
          another meaning!
          Irion's superb book "Vibrations" is out of print(about time,space and
          patience).
          David Wilcock is gaining increasing recognition, speaking of
          vibrations! Site is a stretcher for me as well.
          Did know there was Cayce Reading of his return in 98 as world
          liberator but expected he'd be babe /take decades to grow up.
          Understand purpose of this forum.
          Look forward to initiatory synthesis.
          Chantel - the one book that made thinking simpler for me was "Insights
          for the Age of Aquarious" by Gina Cerminara. She uses general
          semantics to cut through nonsense swiftly...humorous intro about
          suppose you were an alien from another planet trying to understand
          religion on earth...(chapters on Fixed Collection, Primitive Rubbish
          and Contradictions in Bibles, The Non- Allness Idea and Religion, The
          Great Difficulty :Communication,etc).
          Feels good to be able to drink from this fountain of wisdom.
          Steiner's disclosure of Luke's "uniqueness" rings relevant to me.
          Thank-you all, Nina
        • thepathofthesunflower
          ... infallible ... Empire? No way. ... different ... Apocropha? Or? ... spoke quite ... motivations. I ... anthro studies ... fulfilled. True ... certain
          Message 4 of 16 , Nov 17, 2006
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            --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, Cheeseandsalsa@... wrote:
            >
            >
            > In a message dated 11/15/2006 3:58:34 P.M. Central Standard Time,
            > DrStarman@... writes:
            >
            > But both Steiner and Edgar Cayce agreed that Holy Scripture is
            infallible
            >
            >
            > What is Holy Scripture? What they cannonized in the Roman
            Empire? No way.
            > So what is Holy Scripture, is it the gnostic gospels as well as
            different
            > parts of the Bible? The non-canonized works such as the jewish
            Apocropha? Or?
            > What is deemed Holy Scripture according to Steiner? Because he
            spoke quite
            > openly about the Jesuits and their not so keen work and
            motivations. I
            > mean the Bible is not infallible is it? I always assumed in my
            anthro studies
            > that it is fallible. The true Christianity has yet to be
            fulfilled. True
            > Christianity hasn't been experienced truly so far. Except in
            certain places,
            > those of the Rosy Cross. I enjoyed the last "News for Members"
            about the
            > students of Michael. He described the then students and future
            ones to be young
            > people. He sought out the young in crowds as well. He claimed
            the society
            > is a young group which they obviously were and are... I always
            ponder why
            > Steiner landed in the times that he did? He landed at such an odd
            time in some
            > ways. Not considering Kali Yuga. Some thoughts, Chantel
            >


            Hi Chantel,

            Nice ponderings. I do think it is correct to say the Holy Scriptures
            is infallible. The biggest stumbling block today, in my pov, is the
            thought 'the Bible is the work of the Lateran Council of Churches'
            and therefore of men changing the words to suit them. To me this is a
            poor excuse not to read the Bible.

            It was incorrect of the Roman church to leave out books; yes - but we
            know they did - so here is an exposure; for nothing can be hidden
            without meant to be found.

            Including further ancient mystical writings to be discovered when the
            person is ready and the season is right.

            It is said that the very demons fear God; if there has been changing
            words in the Bible let God be the Judge. The Bible is so rich with
            the Word of God, there is enough meat for me in the Bible for years
            and years to come.

            I think Steiner came when he did to carry on H.Blavatsky's work in a
            more scientific manner for our generation. I would say he recognised
            intellectual intelligence reaching this point today (symbolised by
            9/11) and with it a turning inside, a turning back into itself
            (symbolised by Capricorn)and inside is Spirit and Spirit is God. His
            works were very 'hot to the touch' at his time and I think, like with
            all things, time needed to go by for them to be truly appreciated in
            their entirety with still many years to go before completely
            understanding all of his work.

            Well, just my thoughts.
            Love
            Caryn
          • thepathofthesunflower
            ... and ... Hi Nina Pleased to meet you. I have also just recently joined. The Two Jesus children is so profound in it s symbolism and its actuality. David
            Message 5 of 16 , Nov 17, 2006
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              --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "Nina" <emeraldnina@...> wrote:
              >
              > Dear Group,
              > Hello! I am single mom/two teens.
              > Have strong Cayce background. Read some Steiner but got taken back
              > early on when did not understand why truth was not seemingly constant
              > (when came across the two Jesus children that RS speaks of...why
              > didn't Cayce speak of it?)...
              > More recently read "According to Luke" and was pleased to discover RS
              > praise given to the clairvoyant consciousness of Luke. According to
              > Cayce Readings, one of Cayce's own earlier incarnations was as Bishop
              > Lucius in the early church and that he had been a relative of Luke
              and
              > in fact had actually written most of Luke!
              > Loaned that book out 2 yrs ago and person lost it - so will replace
              > and refresh my memory. Scrolled through 72 Amazon pages for Steiner
              > and have quite a long list of wished for titles. Happy to be here and
              > look forward to stretching my understanding! NINA
              >
              Hi Nina

              Pleased to meet you. I have also just recently joined. The Two Jesus
              children is so profound in it's symbolism and its actuality. David
              Ovason recently wrote a book 'The Two Children' taken from Dr Steiner's
              work. David Ovason is a fine arcane author in my opinion.

              Edgar Cayce was brilliant. Dr Steiner though is on a different page
              from Cayce. Steiner was conscious and Cayce was unconscious. But
              highest regards for Cayce, I have learnt so much from his work.

              Steiner and Cayce together with the handful of geninuely gifted people
              walking in the truth.

              Best regards
              Caryn
            • thepathofthesunflower
              ... Virginia ... taught ... a lot of ... because ... the trance ... applied this ... trance ... particularly was ... Cayce ... anthroposophists were ... they
              Message 6 of 16 , Nov 17, 2006
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                --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "Durward Starman" <DrStarman@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > ******* Welcome to the group, Nina. I am an astrologer here in
                Virginia
                > Beach who has studied both Cayce and Steiner all my life, in fact
                taught
                > myself astrology from those two sources. There are two reasons why
                a lot of
                > Steiner people don't like Edgar Cayce: first and most important,
                because
                > Steiner said many times that psychic ability which works through
                the trance
                > state is not reliable. The older generation of anthroposophists
                applied this
                > pretty dogmatically, because so many Theosophists dabbled with
                trance
                > mediums and did not appreciate the dangers.
                >
                > But there was a second reason why the older generation
                particularly was
                > negative about Cayce, which I only found out a few years ago: when
                Cayce
                > went on his disastrous oil venture in Texas, a lot of
                anthroposophists were
                > among the people who invested money in it and lost everything, so
                they
                > didn't have too high in opinion of him and his psychic ability ;- >!
                >
                > In fact, having the actual readings here at my disposal and
                being able to
                > study them directly for many years has convinced me of the truth of
                > Steiner's opinion about psychic ability that works through the
                trance state.
                > Cayce was wrong in many of the things that came through his
                readings. His
                > "earth changes" predictions are perfect examples: none of them came
                true.
                > Only in the past few months has the Cayce organization finally
                become one
                > not run by a member of the Cayce family, so perhaps some objective
                studies
                > will start to be done instead of this literature that makes m sound
                like a
                > saint and a perfect channel of the Divine. I've come to the
                conclusion that
                > his peculiar psychic ability was just as Steiner describes, namely
                being
                > possessed by an Ahrimanic being--- that accounts for the peculiar
                > language---- but that, when Edgar Cayce went into trance to help
                someone who
                > was sick, he put the Christ's protection around him and so the
                information
                > was usually reliable (though not always -- -- -- he sometimes would
                do a
                > whole medical reading giving a course of treatment for people
                already dead).
                > When he was just being asked general questions, it was much less so.
                >
                >
                > It's true that Edgar Cayce did not mention the two Jesus
                children, but
                > then he also said that Mary was immaculately conceived and then a
                few years
                > later that she wasn't, and many of his other biblical information
                is dubious
                > (an Essene woman supposedly named Judy when there was no such
                Hebrew name).
                > But both Steiner and Edgar Cayce agreed that Holy Scripture is
                infallible,
                > and the Gospels of Luke and Matthew have two completely different
                > genealogies for Jesus, or rather his earthly father Joseph. Cayce
                said the
                > same thing that I believe Thomas Aquinas speculated, that one was
                on the
                > father's side and one on the mother's: but that's not really
                believable
                > either, as no Hebrew would trace lineage on the mother's side, and
                every
                > Hebrew name is male including Joseph as the last one. The two
                birth stories
                > are also completely different: in one, the family lives in Nazareth
                and has
                > to travel to Bethlehem for Jesus to be born there, while in the
                other there
                > is no such journey because they live there already; one has the
                visits of
                > the Wise Men and the massacre of the innocents, while the other
                mentions
                > nothing of this but has the visits of the shepherds at the birth,
                which the
                > other story mentions nothing of. All through the Middle Ages there
                were two
                > miracle plays of the two birth stories, the Shepherd's Play and the
                King's
                > Play, as you may have seen in the Waldorf schools. All of what
                Steiner said
                > about the incarnation of Jesus emphasizes him as the Union of an
                earthly and
                > a heavenly stream. I think the Readings also indicated this
                indirectly by
                > saying that " in Christ Jesus do extremes meet."
                >
                > What I try to keep in mind is what Dr. Steiner said, that truth
                is not
                > found in one source, but in the harmony of all sources -- -- -- and
                that all
                > initiates say ESSENTIALLY the same truths. If you focus on the
                similarities
                > you will see the essential agreement, where if you focus on the
                differences
                > it will appear that they are much greater than they actually are.
                For
                > instance, I know of no other source that connects Jesus with
                Zoroaster. Dr.
                > Steiner said that Jesus was the reincarnation of Zoroaster, while
                half a
                > world away Edgar Cayce in trance said an earlier incarnation of
                Jesus was
                > Zend, the FATHER of Zoroaster. One could say they disagreed with
                each other,
                > but think how close their information is, coming from two
                completely
                > different sources.
                >
                > And of course both also speak of reincarnation, the soul and
                spirit
                > living in the other planetary bodies in between lifetimes, the
                akashic
                > records, etheric and astral bodies, Atlantis and Lemuria, the root
                races,
                > and all the other things which Madame Blavatsky wrote about before
                either of
                > them!
                >
                > So once again welcome to the group and feel free to contribute
                to our
                > discussion of all these things. We also traditionally take up a
                book to
                > study for the 12 holy nights which are only about five weeks away
                now; let
                > us know if you have any suggestions.
                >
                > Starman
                >
                > www.DrStarman.com
                >
                Dear Starman,

                Very interesting to read this information about Cayce. It is the same
                as dreams - either it is information coming from the astral region or
                it is further than the astral region. Having guides might suggest it
                is beyond the astral region, although indeed, might be taking place
                in the astral region with the attachments therein.

                Now, the question is - what is to say the guides do not come from
                this region?

                There is One Guide, Jesus.

                There seems to be 'under'guides though ... I do think this needs
                further investigation ...

                >
              • John Massengale
                On 11/17/06 6:35 AM, thepathofthesunflower ... Please elaborate. Thanks, John
                Message 7 of 16 , Nov 17, 2006
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                  On 11/17/06 6:35 AM, "thepathofthesunflower"
                  <thepathofthesunflower@...> wrote:

                  > I would say he recognised intellectual intelligence reaching this point today
                  > (symbolised by 9/11) and with it a turning inside,

                  Please elaborate.

                  Thanks,

                  John
                • thepathofthesunflower
                  ... Pleased to meet you. I have also just recently joined. The Two Jesus ... Steiner s ... page ... people ... Postnote: I dare say; i might be incorrect in
                  Message 8 of 16 , Nov 17, 2006
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                    > Hi Nina
                    >
                    Pleased to meet you. I have also just recently joined. The Two
                    Jesus
                    > children is so profound in it's symbolism and its actuality. David
                    > Ovason recently wrote a book 'The Two Children' taken from Dr
                    Steiner's
                    > work. David Ovason is a fine arcane author in my opinion.
                    >
                    > Edgar Cayce was brilliant. Dr Steiner though is on a different
                    page
                    > from Cayce. Steiner was conscious and Cayce was unconscious. But
                    > highest regards for Cayce, I have learnt so much from his work.
                    >
                    > Steiner and Cayce together with the handful of geninuely gifted
                    people
                    > walking in the truth.
                    >
                    > Best regards
                    > Caryn

                    Postnote:
                    I dare say; i might be incorrect in saying Cayce was walking in the
                    whole truth after reading Starman's account. Trance is a dangerous
                    state and information brought back from this state cannot be reliable.
                  • Nina
                    Dear Caryn, Good to meet you too! Yes, different page! Thanks book tip. Always valued penetrating totality of Dr.Steiner/vast anthroposophical knowledge...even
                    Message 9 of 16 , Nov 17, 2006
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                      Dear Caryn, Good to meet you too! Yes, different page! Thanks book
                      tip. Always valued penetrating totality of Dr.Steiner/vast
                      anthroposophical knowledge...even from my place of understanding. Yes,
                      caution/trance. No OBE's to date! Nina

                      Dear Matthew, Thanks for sharing your personal experience. Fortunate
                      you paid attention to your "angels"...and have kept such good health -
                      Nina
                    • Durward Starman
                      ... ******* Well, in the first place it s one thing to ask questions which you really want an answer to, and quite another thing to ask what are called
                      Message 10 of 16 , Nov 17, 2006
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                        >In a message dated 11/15/2006 3:58:34 P.M. Central Standard Time,
                        >DrStarman@... writes:
                        >
                        >But both Steiner and Edgar Cayce agreed that Holy Scripture is infallible
                        >
                        >
                        >What is Holy Scripture? What they cannonized in the Roman Empire? No
                        >way.
                        >So what is Holy Scripture, is it the gnostic gospels as well as different
                        >parts of the Bible? The non-canonized works such as the jewish Apocropha?
                        > Or?
                        > What is deemed Holy Scripture according to Steiner? Because he spoke
                        >quite
                        >openly about the Jesuits and their not so keen work and motivations. I
                        >mean the Bible is not infallible is it? I always assumed in my anthro
                        >studies
                        >that it is fallible.

                        ******* Well, in the first place it's one thing to ask questions which you
                        really want an answer to, and quite another thing to ask what are called
                        "rhetorical questions", or questions which are asked implying that they
                        have no answer. I don't accept that those questions have no answers. Before
                        that matter, I don't accept that ANY questions have no answers. But I'm not
                        sure if you're really looking for them. If you are. there are quite definite
                        answers to how our holy Scriptures in the West were put together, just as
                        there are about the Hindu holy Scriptures or the Buddhist holy Scriptures or
                        any others. Anyone can research history a little bit and find out easily
                        what the truth is.

                        What we nowadays call the Old Testament, for instance, was the ancient
                        Hebrew holy writings compiled over centuries, of course, and they were put
                        into their present form by the Greeks who had them translated from the
                        Hebrew (the 'Septuagint' version). There was no conspiracy that edited them
                        or anything, and that was the Bible that the early Christians read: then,
                        the story of the ministry, death and resurrection of Christ was passed on
                        orally at first (what was called the "Sayings of the Lord") which were then
                        written down in Greek by a companion of Peter called Mark, a Greek-trained
                        doctor named Luke, and the apostle John in his old age one, along with one
                        in Hebrew by the tax collector Matthew. Those are what we call the Gospels
                        -- -- -- Greek for " good news" -- -- -- and they are what makes up the New
                        Testament, along with the letters of Paul, John, Peter and a few other early
                        Christians.

                        Before Christianity was being made the official religion of Rome, a
                        Christian bishop called Eusebius went around the Mediterranean world and
                        verified all the history of his faith by talking to the Christians in each
                        community. His book, The Ecclesiastical History, is one of the few documents
                        outside of the New Testament which survived the later burning of Rome, along
                        with the epistles of St. Ignatius who was a contemporary of St. Paul and a
                        few other documents. That book is still worth reading today. In the
                        approximately three centuries between the time Jesus died and the time
                        Christianity became Rome's religion, there were no people trying to twist it
                        into an instrument for power -- -- -- quite the opposite, thousands of
                        believers were massacred by those in power and yet continued to hold onto
                        what they believed. Along with the challenge of official violence, they also
                        fought off the challenge of Greek-educated philosophers who wanted to change
                        the Christian gospel into something that would agree with Plato, and so who
                        made up phony Gospels which all the people at the time recognized as not
                        being of the same spirit as the real thing, and which modern scholarship has
                        demonstrated by internal evidence were mostly written centuries after Jesus'
                        time and us are falsely ascribed to this or that apostle. The so-called
                        "gospel of Thomas" is a perfect example. Any educated Greek at the time
                        could tell these were fakes by the tone of the Greek. Any Christian could
                        also tell, because they denied Christ came in the flesh, denied he died on
                        the Cross, etc. Dr. Steiner described repeatedly how these false Gnostics
                        practiced such a one-sided Platonism that they could not bring themselves to
                        believe Jesus had really come in the flesh and so they distorted what we
                        know is the truth from the akashic records as both Steiner and Cayce
                        confirmed it.

                        If you read all the early real texts, there is no difference between what
                        was called Christianity then and what it has been ever since -- -- -- that a
                        Savior has now come into the world to set right again what was ruined by the
                        Fall of Man, that since His resurrection He is a living force that can be
                        known by any man, and that only by turning to that force can fallen man be
                        redeemed.

                        We live in a time of people with many base motivations who are filled
                        with hatred for the religion they were raised in, hatred for the Western
                        world in general or for their society or their parents, and so the belief
                        that the Christian religion is this something made up by people to gain
                        power is something they accept easily, especially if they are totally
                        ignorant of history except the version of that they hear from people like
                        Dan Brown. You will not find any such point of view in Steiner. In fact,
                        many of the things he did were to correct the misconceptions of such people
                        in the Theosophical society, for instance his very first book Christianity
                        As Mystical Fact.

                        If you search through Steiner's lectures on the Gospels, you will not
                        find one single case of his saying the Gospels were in error. How people
                        interpreted them centuries later is quite another thing. All religions are
                        brought into the world by initiates, but then when they outlive their time
                        they become used by evil people for power. Christianity became a
                        replacement for the old pagan religion of Rome, the continuation of which is
                        the Catholic Church; but that's why the spiritual world sends new initiates
                        out, to give a new impulse as the old one becomes corrupted. Steiner came in
                        our time because fewer and fewer people are being allowed to find their way
                        to the Christ Impulse. All of what he created as spiritual science is to
                        help people be able to do so again. The sacred Scriptures of all religions
                        were inspired by a perfect divine spirit. Dr. Steiner never tries to
                        abolish any of what they said, only add to it.

                        Starman

                        www.DrStarman.com


                        >I always ponder why Steiner landed in the times that he did?

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                      • Durward Starman
                        ... ******* I haven t written it yet. ;- Dr. Steiner was working closely with the first head of the Mathematical-Astronomical Section of the Goetheanum,
                        Message 11 of 16 , Nov 17, 2006
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                          >--- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "Durward Starman" <DrStarman@...>
                          >wrote: Welcome to the group, Nina. I am an astrologer here in Virginia
                          > > Beach who has studied both Cayce and Steiner all my life

                          >Dear Starman and all,
                          >Can you please recommend Steiner astro book for layfolks?

                          ******* I haven't written it yet. ;-> Dr. Steiner was working closely with
                          the first head of the Mathematical-Astronomical Section of the Goetheanum,
                          Elizabeth Vreede, teaching her how to read horoscopes, as can be seen in the
                          curative education lectures. But only a few years after he died, she was
                          expelled from the Society at the same time as Dr. Ita Wegman and his wife
                          Marie were, and since then there has been nothing but astronomy study. Dr.
                          Vreede's letters were recently published as Anthroposophy and Astrology.

                          One has to begin with An Outline of a Occult Science and then there are
                          numerous lecture cycles such as The Spiritual Beings in the Heavenly Bodies
                          and the Kingdoms of Nature, The Spiritual Hierarchies and Their Reflection
                          in the Physical World, and many others. I can share a lot from what I've
                          learned if people are interested.


                          >This summer came across book,"The Reincarnation of Edgar Cayce?"by Wyn
                          >Free and David Wilcock. Brought to my attention more dynamics involved
                          >in work of Edgar Cayce.

                          *******Sorry to say that Dave is a very sad, deluded young man with no
                          psychic ability whatsoever who came here to Virginia Beach from New York a
                          few years ago ------ just the latest in a looooooooooong line of people
                          convinced they were the reincarnation of Edgar Cayce, or John the Beloved,
                          or who knows who. Bluntly, he's someone who needs to get a life, and
                          hopefully will soon. Cayce said he would be born in 1998, indeed----- as
                          Steiner also said he might. Dave's not 8.



                          >On birthday had lucid dream/taken to Va Bch,talking to mother of
                          >Everett Irion(important Cayce author). Made association had heard
                          >Irion yrs ago with own mother (she may have larger role behind
                          >figure)..glorious sunrise/would've gone running beach w/music but next
                          >knew was underwater in car and only made it out carrying "Angel" our
                          >Chihuahua pup.Same night daughter dreamed I was preg and gave birth to
                          >many babies. (Told Goetheanum no more babies but that babies can mean new
                          >creation...thought dovetailed with mine since something new was
                          >bursting forth with symbol of Angel. Have research based on Irion.
                          >(Was grad student of Cayce biographer Harmon Bro /past 4 yrs/extensive
                          >dream journal)
                          >Irion's superb book "Vibrations" is out of print(about time,space and
                          >patience).
                          >Thank-you all, Nina

                          ******Everett and Harmon were two of the better ones of the Cayce people,
                          along with Gina Cerminara. They don't have anyone of their stature anymore,
                          it seems. But none of them ever reached the level of anthroposophy.

                          Starman
                          www.DrStarman.com

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                        • Durward Starman
                          ... ******* The Readings gave the test in 1John 3: every spirit that says that Christ is come in the flesh is a true spirit and vice versa. I would not follow
                          Message 12 of 16 , Nov 17, 2006
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                            >Dear Starman,
                            >
                            >Very interesting to read this information about Cayce. It is the same
                            >as dreams - either it is information coming from the astral region or
                            >it is further than the astral region. Having guides might suggest it
                            >is beyond the astral region, although indeed, might be taking place
                            >in the astral region with the attachments therein.
                            >
                            >Now, the question is - what is to say the guides do not come from this
                            >region?
                            >
                            >There is One Guide, Jesus.
                            >
                            >There seems to be 'under'guides though ... I do think this needs further
                            >investigation ...

                            ******* The Readings gave the test in 1John 3: every spirit that says that
                            Christ is come in the flesh is a true spirit and vice versa.
                            I would not follow Cayce or Steiner if they denied this, as Seth and so
                            many "channellers" do. Every real initiate places him or herself under the
                            Christ, none deny His reality.


                            Starman

                            www.DrStarman.com

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                          • Nina
                            Dear Starman, A starman should write that book! Drummond is also good , A Life of Jesus the Christ mentions Steiner too. His new book on Islam, much needed.
                            Message 13 of 16 , Nov 18, 2006
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                              Dear Starman,
                              A starman should write that book!
                              Drummond is also good , "A Life of Jesus the Christ" mentions Steiner
                              too. His new book on Islam, much needed.
                              Receptive to anything about Spiritual Beings, Reflections, etc.
                              David is controversial. You have reasons for your conclusions. You may
                              not have interest in related "Law of One" material since trance work.I
                              did gain from it though.
                              Angel dream came to me after yrs of intense growth fostered by love of
                              Cayce "Search for God" member with addiction. Dream came after
                              numerous, highly beneficial dreams(even surprisingly precognitive,etc).
                              Found much of benefit fr Dr. Steiner on alco/nicotine and wanted book
                              Initiation or Aberration.Had been told by clairvoyant that in earlier
                              life, this guy introduced me to healing and Cayce before Cayce. Was
                              able to free myself w/dream of taking rotting grapes out of my fridge
                              after came across reading about "the juice of the vine" and how all in
                              creation works for the glory of God, even this, given to man to bring
                              release to the heart of man that has overburdened,etc..but must subdue
                              the earth. Even had one of those SCIO quantum health evaluations done
                              and what came up was even bone marrow affected - which is what
                              Dr.Steiner said.
                              The value of personal experience! Meaningful BIG DREAM for me. I'm
                              sure you have had your own Starman! Respectful gratitude for your
                              honest opinion.
                              Want to hear of Ahriman, Apocalypses, Epochs and more. Feel now
                              better able to grasp anthroposophy. Sorry was not swifter to catch the
                              Gospel disparity myself. Will seek out Matthew Fox wk on Aquinas,
                              maybe also the Two Children book. Saw him recently here and he shared
                              this music video "Meditation" from professor pitt (help young people
                              veer from dangerous paths) Never seen eurythmy. NINA
                              http://www.speakingmatters.org/prof_pitt.html
                            • thepathofthesunflower
                              ... point today ... Hello John Thank you for asking me to elaborate on this. When I wrote 9/11 I thought I might have comments and with this I thought I might
                              Message 14 of 16 , Nov 19, 2006
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                                --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, John Massengale <john@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > On 11/17/06 6:35 AM, "thepathofthesunflower"
                                > <thepathofthesunflower@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > > I would say he recognised intellectual intelligence reaching this
                                point today
                                > > (symbolised by 9/11) and with it a turning inside,
                                >
                                > Please elaborate.
                                >
                                > Thanks,
                                >
                                > John
                                >
                                Hello John

                                Thank you for asking me to elaborate on this. When I wrote 9/11 I
                                thought I might have comments and with this I thought I might be
                                putting myself out onto a limb. First of all, this comment is mine
                                and not from Dr Steiner's work but is my self-study thoughts.

                                Dr Steiner gave a series of lectures in Stuttgart 5 March to 22
                                November 1920 under the title 'Polarities in the Evolution of Mankind'
                                further sub-titled; West and East Materialism and Mysticism Knowledge
                                and Belief.

                                Studying this work; we read post- Lumeria and Atlantis the Soul
                                migrated and settled in the East where it stayed. Out of the East
                                the Spirit of the Soul spread to Egypt and Europe.

                                The East stayed in collective consciousness whereas the West
                                developed the intellectual and individual spirit qualities with the
                                collective consciousness becoming dormant in order for the individual
                                reasoning to come to the front.

                                In the evolution of mankind, the collective consciousness qualities
                                are to merge with the intellectual individual qualities.

                                This is a brief summary of Dr Steiner's work on the subject of the
                                East(Mysticism)and West(Materialism)and the evolution thereof.

                                For me to say 9/11 symbolises a turning point is serious; and please
                                know it is said with sensitivity and respect. Again it is my
                                opinion. It is not based on politics - it is based on my spirit
                                perception. It is a difficult subject and I apologise if I have
                                offended anybody as well as the enormity of me presuming it is of
                                Spirit.

                                Talking to American people (I am South African) I have gathered a
                                turning into themselves (of course I am generalising) Capricorn is
                                the sign of initiation; the goat reaching the top of the mountain to
                                become the unicorn. The symbol of Capricorn has a straight back with
                                a soft front. The front looping into a circle and turning into
                                itself suggesting lucidity together with firmness from its back.
                                Capricorn also symbolises the knees; either bent or straight.

                                This is my mumblings along said with the greatest of respects.

                                Caryn.
                              • thepathofthesunflower
                                ... same ... or ... it ... this ... further ... says that ... and so ... under the ... Thank you. The two guides I have recently met (in what i think was
                                Message 15 of 16 , Nov 19, 2006
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                                  --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "Durward Starman" <DrStarman@...>
                                  wrote:
                                  >
                                  > >Dear Starman,
                                  > >
                                  > >Very interesting to read this information about Cayce. It is the
                                  same
                                  > >as dreams - either it is information coming from the astral region
                                  or
                                  > >it is further than the astral region. Having guides might suggest
                                  it
                                  > >is beyond the astral region, although indeed, might be taking place
                                  > >in the astral region with the attachments therein.
                                  > >
                                  > >Now, the question is - what is to say the guides do not come from
                                  this
                                  > >region?
                                  > >
                                  > >There is One Guide, Jesus.
                                  > >
                                  > >There seems to be 'under'guides though ... I do think this needs
                                  further
                                  > >investigation ...
                                  >
                                  > ******* The Readings gave the test in 1John 3: every spirit that
                                  says that
                                  > Christ is come in the flesh is a true spirit and vice versa.
                                  > I would not follow Cayce or Steiner if they denied this, as Seth
                                  and so
                                  > many "channellers" do. Every real initiate places him or herself
                                  under the
                                  > Christ, none deny His reality.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Starman
                                  >
                                  > www.DrStarman.com
                                  >
                                  > _________________________________________________________________
                                  Thank you. The two guides I have recently met (in what i think was
                                  powerful projection short real dream) were/are black people they
                                  seemed very gentle and were attentive but silent hovering in the
                                  background next to me. It was them showing me the visuals.

                                  I hope to met them again and be in a controlled conscious state so as
                                  I may communicate with them.

                                  Best regards
                                  Caryn
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