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Re: [steiner] dimensions

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  • Durward Starman
    ******* Well, as I said, I have worked with the book Tertium Organum by P. D. Ouspensky for many years, and it contains thinking exercises derived from the
    Message 1 of 10 , Nov 11, 2006
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      ******* Well, as I said, I have worked with the book "Tertium Organum" by P.
      D. Ouspensky for many years, and it contains thinking exercises derived from
      the work of the mathematician Hinton, the Theosophist that Steiner also
      lectured on. I'll tell you a bit out of the book, but it's just like
      iGoethe' s theory of colors ---- it's one thing to hear it as a theory, and
      another to do the exercises and arrive at the perception yourself. So I'll
      try to put it in a way we are you can see what's meant, rather than just say
      that the theory says this and that.

      One of the starting points mathematicians used to approach understanding
      the fourth dimension a century ago was what was then the well-known "
      Flatland analogy". If you imagine a plane of two dimensions and a being
      living in it, he or she or it would only be able to perceive what is in that
      plane. A three-dimensional object -- -- -- or rather, an object which WE can
      perceive in three dimensions -- -- -- could only be known by the plane being
      as the section of it which is in its plane. Imagine a cube, for instance,
      passing through the "flatlander's" plane: if it passed through it
      perpendicular to the plane, the plane being could perceive only a SQUARE. as
      that section of the cube passed through its plane. If it didn't pass
      through perpendicularly, but rather first one corner passed through, then
      the rest of the cube, the plane being would sense a changing variety of
      figures, starting from a point when the corner first penetrated the plane,
      expanding into a growing square, and so forth. {This would of course be
      easier to explain with the help of drawings, but most people here have their
      e-mail set to either not rerceive images included or attached, or else they
      just go to the web site to read the messages, and embedded images are not
      saved there, so if I go through all the trouble of creating the drawings and
      then refer to them, what I say would make no sense to somebody unable to see
      them. C'est la vie....)

      Hinton and Ouspensky go from this to analogize our experience of
      three-dimensional space. Whatever one a being cannot sense as a dimension of
      space, it senses as changes in the space it can perceive. So, if we see a
      series of changes in three-dimensional space, that can be understood as an
      object having a fourth dimension which we can't perceive as one, passing
      through our three-dimensional space. In other words, the higher dimensions
      of the objects in the world around us ---- which we cannot yet perceive as
      dimensions the way we currently perceive the length, width and depth of
      objects----- instead of being perceived as a static dimension of space in an
      object, appear to us as a series of CHANGES to our space, in other words
      what we call change in time.

      So, the appearance of a plant out of its seed into its young form, then
      the lower shoot becoming the root and the upper shoot the stem, the growth
      of leaves, then the formation of flowers and fruit---- all this is a series
      of changes in an object through time to us, but to a being who can see the
      fourth and other higher dimensions, those are all parts of the object's
      shape. It does not come into existence and then disappear in time, but
      rather that appears to happen to us because of the limitation of our
      perceptions----- just as, before a cube passes through the Flatlander's
      space, the square section of the cube that he will perceive, he would say is
      in the future, while once it passes through the plane, he would say the
      figures that appeared in his space are now something in the past.

      This is the true connection between the idea of the fourth dimension, or
      rather fourth and all possible higher dimensions, and Time. Many people were
      experimenting with these ideas a century ago, but the person who arrived at
      the true solution, Ouspensky, was largely ignored, while the person who
      arrived at the false solution, Einstein, was made into a god by people who
      proclaimed he had solved a great mystery while not understanding his stupid
      theory in the least. (I'm speaking about his general theory of relativity,
      which is an absurd mishmash and which has completely ruined the ability of
      people to think about these things in the way that helps lead to the
      spiritual aspect -- but then, one couldn't expect anything Einstein did to
      lead to the spiritual. Just look at the way he treated his wife, and the way
      he led a spaced-out life in New Jersey. It's absolutely amazing how the
      scientific establishment has put him over as an intellectual giant to people
      who never study what he actually speculated---- but then look how they've
      made everyone believers in Darwin whose followers have still found zero
      evidence for his theory. )

      In relation to human life, as you say this also leads to an understanding
      of how one period of time is related to another. There's another great book,
      " A Dweller on Two Planets", a history of Atlantis which was spirit-dictated
      in the 1880s to a young man in California by a being who called himself
      Phylos the Thibetan, which Edgar Cayce used to quote from in his readings
      and which is well worth studying by anthroposophists. In it he also explains
      the correspondence of epochs by the analogy of a screw thread passing
      through a plane: with a full turn, you are back at the same place on the
      screw but on a higher level. So he says we in America are Atlantis come
      back, but not exactly the same as Atlantis was, because we have progressed.
      Looking at a shorter period of time, our age can also be understood as a
      repetition of the Egyptian civilization according to Steiner.

      The correspondence, like many other phenomena, is understandable once
      you expand the concepts "object" and "dimensions" as Tertium Orgnaum shows a
      way to do. But as I said, just hearing someone summarize it is very
      different from doing the thinking/perception exercises yourself. That's a
      great place to begin.

      -Starman


      [steiner] heretics of reality/dimensions
      >Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 14:57:22 EST
      >
      >I agree on the infinite number of dimensions. Also the time=dimension
      >idea
      >I enjoy that theory. In our modern time shall we say Theosophist dimension
      >of an
      >ancient civilization can pop up in the year 2006? For example imagine
      >Ancient
      >Egypt popping up in 2006? It seems crazy but entertaining enough as a
      >theory.
      >I'm not even a beginner on this topic however. ~good things, Chantel

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    • thepathofthesunflower
      ... Organum by P. ... derived from ... also ... like ... theory, and ... So I ll ... just say ... understanding ... known ... being ... is in that ... which
      Message 2 of 10 , Nov 13, 2006
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        --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "Durward Starman" <DrStarman@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > ******* Well, as I said, I have worked with the book "Tertium
        Organum" by P.
        > D. Ouspensky for many years, and it contains thinking exercises
        derived from
        > the work of the mathematician Hinton, the Theosophist that Steiner
        also
        > lectured on. I'll tell you a bit out of the book, but it's just
        like
        > iGoethe' s theory of colors ---- it's one thing to hear it as a
        theory, and
        > another to do the exercises and arrive at the perception yourself.
        So I'll
        > try to put it in a way we are you can see what's meant, rather than
        just say
        > that the theory says this and that.
        >
        > One of the starting points mathematicians used to approach
        understanding
        > the fourth dimension a century ago was what was then the well-
        known "
        > Flatland analogy". If you imagine a plane of two dimensions and a
        being
        > living in it, he or she or it would only be able to perceive what
        is in that
        > plane. A three-dimensional object -- -- -- or rather, an object
        which WE can
        > perceive in three dimensions -- -- -- could only be known by the
        plane being
        > as the section of it which is in its plane. Imagine a cube, for
        instance,
        > passing through the "flatlander's" plane: if it passed through it
        > perpendicular to the plane, the plane being could perceive only a
        SQUARE. as
        > that section of the cube passed through its plane. If it didn't
        pass
        > through perpendicularly, but rather first one corner passed
        through, then
        > the rest of the cube, the plane being would sense a changing
        variety of
        > figures, starting from a point when the corner first penetrated the
        plane,
        > expanding into a growing square, and so forth. {This would of
        course be
        > easier to explain with the help of drawings, but most people here
        have their
        > e-mail set to either not rerceive images included or attached, or
        else they
        > just go to the web site to read the messages, and embedded images
        are not
        > saved there, so if I go through all the trouble of creating the
        drawings and
        > then refer to them, what I say would make no sense to somebody
        unable to see
        > them. C'est la vie....)
        >
        > Hinton and Ouspensky go from this to analogize our experience of
        > three-dimensional space. Whatever one a being cannot sense as a
        dimension of
        > space, it senses as changes in the space it can perceive. So, if we
        see a
        > series of changes in three-dimensional space, that can be
        understood as an
        > object having a fourth dimension which we can't perceive as one,
        passing
        > through our three-dimensional space. In other words, the higher
        dimensions
        > of the objects in the world around us ---- which we cannot yet
        perceive as
        > dimensions the way we currently perceive the length, width and
        depth of
        > objects----- instead of being perceived as a static dimension of
        space in an
        > object, appear to us as a series of CHANGES to our space, in other
        words
        > what we call change in time.
        >
        > So, the appearance of a plant out of its seed into its young
        form, then
        > the lower shoot becoming the root and the upper shoot the stem, the
        growth
        > of leaves, then the formation of flowers and fruit---- all this is
        a series
        > of changes in an object through time to us, but to a being who can
        see the
        > fourth and other higher dimensions, those are all parts of the
        object's
        > shape. It does not come into existence and then disappear in time,
        but
        > rather that appears to happen to us because of the limitation of
        our
        > perceptions----- just as, before a cube passes through the
        Flatlander's
        > space, the square section of the cube that he will perceive, he
        would say is
        > in the future, while once it passes through the plane, he would say
        the
        > figures that appeared in his space are now something in the past.
        >
        > This is the true connection between the idea of the fourth
        dimension, or
        > rather fourth and all possible higher dimensions, and Time. Many
        people were
        > experimenting with these ideas a century ago, but the person who
        arrived at
        > the true solution, Ouspensky, was largely ignored, while the person
        who
        > arrived at the false solution, Einstein, was made into a god by
        people who
        > proclaimed he had solved a great mystery while not understanding
        his stupid
        > theory in the least. (I'm speaking about his general theory of
        relativity,
        > which is an absurd mishmash and which has completely ruined the
        ability of
        > people to think about these things in the way that helps lead to
        the
        > spiritual aspect -- but then, one couldn't expect anything Einstein
        did to
        > lead to the spiritual. Just look at the way he treated his wife,
        and the way
        > he led a spaced-out life in New Jersey. It's absolutely amazing
        how the
        > scientific establishment has put him over as an intellectual giant
        to people
        > who never study what he actually speculated---- but then look how
        they've
        > made everyone believers in Darwin whose followers have still found
        zero
        > evidence for his theory. )
        >
        > In relation to human life, as you say this also leads to an
        understanding
        > of how one period of time is related to another. There's another
        great book,
        > " A Dweller on Two Planets", a history of Atlantis which was spirit-
        dictated
        > in the 1880s to a young man in California by a being who called
        himself
        > Phylos the Thibetan, which Edgar Cayce used to quote from in his
        readings
        > and which is well worth studying by anthroposophists. In it he also
        explains
        > the correspondence of epochs by the analogy of a screw thread
        passing
        > through a plane: with a full turn, you are back at the same place
        on the
        > screw but on a higher level. So he says we in America are Atlantis
        come
        > back, but not exactly the same as Atlantis was, because we have
        progressed.
        > Looking at a shorter period of time, our age can also be understood
        as a
        > repetition of the Egyptian civilization according to Steiner.
        >
        > The correspondence, like many other phenomena, is
        understandable once
        > you expand the concepts "object" and "dimensions" as Tertium
        Orgnaum shows a
        > way to do. But as I said, just hearing someone summarize it is very
        > different from doing the thinking/perception exercises yourself.
        That's a
        > great place to begin.
        >
        > -Starman
        >
        >
        Hi

        I have one book of PD Ouspensky's 'The psychology of man's possible
        evolution' which I throughly enjoyed and think it deserve's a re-
        reading soon. I wouldn't mind reading Tertium Orgnaum.

        I totally agree with what you say regarding Einstein. If i am right
        to say this train of 'undimensional squashed thought' started with
        Aristotle disregarding the quintessence, the very susbstance which
        holds things together. Because it cannot be measured it is
        disregarded.

        Democractic intelligence reaching its point of no return; me thinks.

        It is co-incidential you write about Atlantis, Starman. Over the
        weekend I was re-reading 'Lemuria the lost continent of the Pacific'
        published by the Rosicrucian Order of California 1931. And what you
        say in America .. Atlantis come back. It does seem like a cycle, Dr
        Steiner's Samsara symbol might describe this well on a macro scale.

        To me; what is happening in the world today is exactly the same prior
        to the destruction of Atlantis the only thing which is different is
        the background.

        Although, the Atlantians and prior the Lemurians had reached
        a 'civilization' (not our understanding of civilization today) far
        beyond ours of today. They were so advanced in their relationship to
        the Cosmic Mind. First of all operating in a moneyless society
        (shows are great deal of maurity to do this) and second having their
        pineal organ developed to such a degree that sixth sense connecting
        to the Cosmic mind was normal. Also they had knowledge of the fill
        potential use of minerals and metals; therefore having air and sea
        vehicles.

        With the sinking of these two great continents and migrating (to the
        East and Egypt) This organ become under-developed. It was a literal
        organ - a 'bump' protruding from the forehead. It is said with
        practice in developing this organ it will come back through the
        generations. California is part of the original Lemuria, very
        special.

        Interesting you also talk about the writings 'A Dweller on Two
        Planets' dictated by the being Phylos talking about Atlantis, to
        someone in California.

        I have a book 'Atlantis to the Latter Days' It is known as
        the 'Osirian Scripts' inspirationally dictated to HC Randall-Stevens
        by the Masters Oneferu and Adolemy of the Osirian Group. Adolemy
        being incarnate under the name Osiraes (not to be confused with
        Osiris) in the reigns of Amenhotep III & IV and Oneferu been
        incarnate under the name of Men-Aton during the reign of Akhnaton. It
        is published by The Knights Templars of Aquarius 1957. It was said HC
        Randall-Stevens is the incarnation of El Eros and a later incarnation
        of Akhnaton.

        It is a dedication of Adam Ptah El Daoud and his divine twin Evam, to
        the master teachers of Earth.

        A wonderful find (in a second hand-book shop a few years ago) I am
        sure here we will find parallels to the writings you have on
        Atlantis. It is said the 'latter' days is the shift of the sun from
        Pisces into Aquarius.

        Getting a bit off the subject of dimensions; but maybe not really
        because possibly the dimensions is discovering these worlds; as the
        metaphor of the plant - releasing the element of scent.

        Have a great day.
        Caryn
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