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Re: [steiner] To Love

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  • Jeff Auen
    Sarah, Let me get personal. This example, I am sure has been experienced by many others. In my early explorations and search for spiritual experience, I
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 1, 2001
      Sarah,

      Let me get personal. This example, I am sure has been experienced by many others. In my early explorations and search for spiritual experience, I studied with and visited many teachers, primarily from the East and India. Two friends and I encountered one such teacher who spoke of nothing but love and associated himself exclusively with the mystic heart path. We were drawn to this path as a counterpoint to our dry and sterile education at UW Madison. Eventually it lead me to India at 19. While there, we had many life changing experiences and gained a certainty about many spiritual and metaphysical claims spoken of in the "literature" of mysticism. When
      there, many of the visitors (from America) had experiences of profound love beyond anything we have had since. This state of love/ energy permeated every part of us. It was within us and could be felt and experienced with everyone else and even into stones. We were filled with it and it changed every thought, feeling and action we had. One could not speak or think harmfully of others; we did not have to eat much; and this feeling was shared equally with others. When back in the states and in school, the intensity gradually wore away and eventually it subsided totally. It was a gift from another Being but the embers were not strong enough to sustain it
      over time. For those who have had this experience, a clear distinction is known between any human state of love and divine love which penetrates every particle of creation. This is the sort of love I was referring to though not so dramatic and life changing. This love is transforming in the way St. Paul spoke of it in the Epistles. This, in even its simplest form, cannot be generated or expanded like other capacities we have.

      Sarah Cherry wrote:

      > Jeff wrote:
      >
      > Quite simply, unless I am very unique from others, I cannot just turn the feeling of love on and direct it as a true feeling force to others.Compassion, sensitivity to others etc. is not the same feeling state as love. Sometimes "it" is there and flows forth and sometimes nothing I can do can rekindle this flow. Sometimes, we experience this with our mates or family and friends but I am also speaking of it also in the board sense towards others and nature. In thinking and willing, we can generate it by concentration, application intelligence, "putting our shoulder up against the wheel and pushing" but generating true love is not so direct or possible.
      >
    • Morgan Vierheller
      ... There is a person (of a group of 40-50) that I dance with (Universal Worship/Sufi) that have affected me this way when we dance. Although he leads the
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 1, 2001
         

        Jeff Auen wrote:

        ...Two friends and I  encountered one such teacher who spoke of nothing but love and associated himself exclusively with the mystic heart path. ... many of the visitors (from America) had experiences of profound love beyond anything we have had since. This state of  love/ energy permeated every part of us. It was within us and could be felt and experienced with everyone else and even into stones. We were filled with it and it changed every  thought, feeling and action we had. One could not speak  or think  harmfully of others; we did not have to eat much;  and this feeling was shared equally with others.
        There is a person (of a group of 40-50) that I dance with (Universal Worship/Sufi) that have affected me this way when we dance.  Although he leads the dance with his music and does not come out into the circle his warmth and love for the form radiates from him so brightly that there is a flood of love and warmth.
        I am also dismayed that the bustle and noise tends to drown out the feeling after a few days but I am happy to feel it for the time that it occurs.

        Thank you for the wonderful story!

        Morgan

         
        . For those who have had this experience, a clear distinction is known between any human state of love and divine love which penetrates every particle of creation. This is the sort of love I was referring to though not so dramatic and life changing. This love is transforming in the way St. Paul spoke of it in the Epistles. This, in even its simplest form, cannot be generated or expanded like other capacities we have.
         

      • Morgan Vierheller
        ... This is a good point you have here. I had the privilege of discussing this with my 11th grade class where we compared Siddhartha with Ayn Rand s Anthem.
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 1, 2001
           

          starmann77@... wrote:

          *******I'm surprised at two things in our 12 Nights study group online here: the first is that no one commented on what Steiner said in Lecture 3 and again in Lecture 6 about the "I AM". So many people interested in the Spirit but alienated from our dead Christian churches wind up reading Eastern stuff that says over and over that the Self is bad, ....
          This is a good point you have here.  I had the privilege of discussing this with my 11th grade class where we compared Siddhartha with Ayn Rand's Anthem.  After the journey  with Siddhartha and his path to Atman and then experiencing the lack of "I-dentification" :) in Anthem and Equality's discovery of the forbidden word (I) we had a great conversation regarding the nature and expression of the ego.  We looked at inventors and what drove them and how they followed a compulsion that flowed through them out into the world.  They came up with some great questions.
          Anthem is not Rand's best work but its message is clear.
           
               Second, about love. I wonder if anyone noticed the little passage that
          struck me in Lecture 3 where he was talking about the Earth becoming a Cosmos of Love (at the bottom of the 6th page of the lecture in my book):
          I see that I was not thorough enough in my synopsis.  The whole purpose of this evolution is the perfection, generation and permeation of Love.
           

          Love and self-immolation are not compatible:

          Then it seems to me that a mark of real love is that each will be made MORE able to be their independent Self in the relationship, not less: each will strengthen & support the other's individuality, not weaken it or tear it down. There's how to recognize the real thing, then.
          Amen:)

          Morgan

        • Sarah Cherry
          [My e-mail was down last night, and from the posts this morning, I see my comments plagiarize Morgan a bit :-). I, too, have been disappointed that we haven t
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 2, 2001
            [My e-mail was down last night, and from the posts this morning, I
            see my comments plagiarize Morgan a bit :-). I, too, have been
            disappointed that we haven't had more discussion. I hope the
            discussion will continue well into the new year and specifically so
            we can know one another more deeply. I have also felt pressed to
            "keep up" with the reading and not had so much time to comment, but I
            feel reading in unison, so to speak, was beneficial.]

            At 11:41 AM -0500 1/1/01, starmann77@... wrote:
            <snip>
            >that the Ego is the immortal spirit in Man and the force that raises
            >us up ever higher, transforming the astral, etheric and physical bodies into
            >Manas, Budhi and Atman. Wasn't anyone surprised?

            To tell you the truth, I have become so accustomed to this concept in
            Steiner's work, that I am immune to being in awe by this
            revaluation. (so much for child-like wonder, huh? :-) However, I am
            in awe of the way he described the relationship of man's development
            to our understanding of architecture. "In a Gothic church you can see
            that what is expressed in its form cannot possible be thought of or
            felt without the presence of the devotional congregation.<snip> If
            the devotional congregation were not within, and the hands were not
            placed together in the form of the arch, the whole would be
            incomplete." What a picture of ego-beings as co-creators!

            <long snip>

            >Then it
            >seems to me that a mark of real love is that each will be made MORE able to
            >be their independent Self in the relationship, not less: each will strengthen
            >& support the other's individuality, not weaken it or tear it down. There's
            >how to recognize the real thing, then.

            From my southern protestant childhood.... Ahmen!


            Along that line, one of my favorite quotes;

            "It is more noble to give yourself completely to one individual than
            to labor diligently for the salvation of the masses." Dag
            Hammarskjold

            Without a strong "I", there's nothing to give, and you won't have a
            clue as to what Hammarskjold is talking about!

            Sarah
          • starmann77@aol.com
            ... again ... that ... mrgnsms@earthlink.net writes: This is a good point you have here. I had the privilege of discussing this with my 11th grade class where
            Message 5 of 8 , Jan 2, 2001
              > *******I'm surprised at two things in our 12 Nights study group online
              here:
              > the first is that no one commented on what Steiner said in Lecture 3 and
              again
              > in Lecture 6 about the "I AM". So many people interested in the Spirit but
              > alienated from our dead Christian churches wind up reading Eastern stuff
              that
              > says over and over that the Self is bad....
              mrgnsms@... writes:
              This is a good point you have here. I had the privilege of discussing this
              with
              my 11th grade class where we compared Siddhartha with Ayn Rand's Anthem.
              After
              the journey with Siddhartha and his path to Atman and then experiencing the
              lack of "I-dentification" :) in Anthem and Equality's discovery of the
              forbidden
              word (I) we had a great conversation regarding the nature and expression of
              the
              ego. We looked at inventors and what drove them and how they followed a
              compulsion that flowed through them out into the world. They came up with
              some
              great questions.
              Anthem is not Rand's best work but its message is clear.
              >>

              *******Yes, and I have always embraced both Objectivism and Libertarianism as
              well as Anthroposophy---and have been amazed at how many anthroposophists
              support socialism and anti-individualist philosophies, without seeing the
              contradictions. Good for you, using Anthem with young minds.

              >>Love and self-immolation are not compatible:

              > Then it seems to me that a mark of real love is that each will be made MORE
              > able to be their independent Self in the relationship, not less: each will
              > strengthen & support the other's individuality, not weaken it or tear it
              down.
              > There's how to recognize the real thing, then.

              Amen:)

              Morgan
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