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Re: [steiner] Online anthroposophical discussions

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  • Durward Starman
    ******* I d wanted to respond to this even though it s taken me awhile to do so, because it s a big problem I ve run into often. As some of you know, I was
    Message 1 of 8 , Jun 20, 2006
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      ******* I'd wanted to respond to this even though it's taken me awhile to do
      so, because it's a big problem I've run into often. As some of you know, I
      was born with psychic ability, and took up the Edgar Cayce readings and
      anthroposophy to train it, and I ran into just what you described ----for
      instance, when old teachers at the Waldorf Institute where I got my training
      would talk about the things in Steiner's books, but didn't want to admit
      they had no psychic ability themselves. I had direct knowledge, but often
      had to avoid embarassing the teacher in the classroom, especially when they
      were merely speculating and got 'way off from the truth.

      But more than that, it's not really true for people to think they 'have
      no psychic ability'. As some of the older generation of anthroposophists
      knew from following the philosophic path of intensifying thinking (for
      instance through using the Philosophy of Freedom), "ordinary" thinking
      itself --- I mean pure thinking, as in mathematics, geometry, etc. --- is
      actually a psychic experience---- as is also the absolute realization of
      oneself as an "I am". What was most sad was when some of those who had never
      made a breakthrough to psychic experience were in that rut because they
      never reached the point of experiencing their thinking itself in this new
      way. They had psychic experiences but were unwilling or unable to recognize
      them as such, and so could go no further. One fellow taught the class in the
      Philosophy of Freedom while never having gotten the resut it can give!

      See, we must reject dualism, the idea that etheric forces, astral
      phenomena, etc., are things "other than" what we are experiencing, because
      we actually ARE experiencing them all the time, just normally under a veil,
      so to speak. A "habit", for instance, is an etheric force-form, an
      "emotion" is an astral movement. The astral body presses in more to the
      physical when we cry, expands out of it more when we laugh. What is
      important is to experience these as pure ideas at first while reading
      Theosophy or Occult Science, because we need to lift ourselves up into pure
      thinking, which is what we use the spirit to do --- and then look "down"
      from that standpoint. That's why we study the books as a tool of initiation.
      But then, not being able to connect one's thought-pictures to the rest of
      the reality we experience is the result of a lack of confidence in thinking,
      as Steiner pointed out so often. It's essential.

      As for the folks online who pretend to be psychic ---- well, that's why
      I keep this list going, so there's a place where people can study spiritual
      science without distortions of it. The false egotists can have their
      soapboxes, but that is no help at all to a Waldorf teacher, a bio-dynamic
      farmer, an "astrosopher" like myself, or any other "worker in the vineyard"
      who is seeking to walk this path, and for whom this medium could be so much.

      -starman

      www.DrStarman.com



      >--- ignorantspirit <ignorantspirit@...> wrote:
      >
      > > I think that people's egos spoil many of the online
      > > discussions related to Anthroposophy. I'm not referring to a
      > > recent posting on this list or to any particular person on this list,
      > > but rather to what I've noticed on various lists related to the
      > > subject over the years.
      > >
      > > Many people on these lists like to come across as
      > > having all the answers instead of searching for answers.
      > >
      > > Since Anthroposophy is all about learning to see
      > > into the spirit world, it must be difficult for someone who has been
      > > involved with Anthroposophy for many years to admit that he/she is
      > > still unable to see into the spirit world. I guess the more someone
      > > has positioned himself/herself in society as an expert on spiritual
      > > matters, the more embarrassing it would be to admit that he/she
      > > is not yet psychic or limited in this ability.
      > >
      > > This causes people to write messages that sort of
      > > give the impression that they received the knowledge
      > > psychically without actually saying so. They make statements without
      > > quoting sources or without making it clear that the statements are
      > > their own hypotheses, thus giving the impression that the
      > > statements are eternal truths that come straight from the spirit
      > > world and are beyond dispute.
      > >
      > > That's a pity, because it makes debate difficult. If
      > > you quote a source, then others can refer back to the source to
      > > see if it has been correctly understood. If you make a hypothesis
      > > and give the reasons why you speculate it to be true, then others
      > > can test the argument and suggest alternative hypotheses. But, if
      > > you give the impression that you've seen the truth in the spirit
      > > world directly, then people who cannot see into the spirit world
      > > cannot participate in the discussion. This causes many of the postings
      > > to these lists to be monologues.
    • Cheeseandsalsa@aol.com
      In a message dated 6/20/2006 11:25:26 A.M. Central Daylight Time, DrStarman@hotmail.com writes: I d wanted to respond to this even though it s taken me awhile
      Message 2 of 8 , Jun 20, 2006
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        In a message dated 6/20/2006 11:25:26 A.M. Central Daylight Time, DrStarman@... writes:
        I'd wanted to respond to this even though it's taken me awhile to do
        so, because it's a big problem I've run into often. As some of you know,  I
        was born with psychic ability, and took up the Edgar Cayce readings and
        anthroposophy to train it, and I ran into just what you described ----for
        instance, when old teachers at the Waldorf Institute where I got my training
        would talk about the things in Steiner's books, but didn't want to admit
        they had no psychic ability themselves.
        I have had the experience over and over again by teachers in anthroposophy that my psychic experiences cannot be real or true.  I have sat in "Philosophy of Freedom", "Theosophy", "Occult Science, "Knowledge of Higher Worlds" book studies and on several occasions with the teacher directly looking me in the eye telling me they are delusions.  Now, how in the world did this get skewed so badly?  I already know why but come on people?  I have talked with many people who love anthroposophy but cannot tolerate its followers.  Hmmm, sounds familiar .  I believe certain anthroposophists strive and strive and do the exercises and they get caught in their own downfalls and then accuse the "seers" as being frauds.  Oh, the joys of 3-D.  ~Chantel -wandering anthroposophist 
      • My2Cents
        I have always had these experiences but learned as a small child not to speak of them. I think it frightened my mother, who had just lost my father from
        Message 3 of 8 , Jun 22, 2006
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          I have always had these experiences but learned as a small child not to speak of them. I think it frightened my mother, who had just lost my father from drowning. An example: At age 19 I was planning a visit to my mother, perhaps 200 miles south of my residence and received a joyful letter from her. In among her usual cheerful comments were her light hearted words "I'll be so glad to see you - there's something I have to tell you!" Immediately I saw in my mind's eye she had breast cancer and would not live long. So it was. Years later my daughter rode a neighbor's horse just out of sight on our dirt road, and I immediately saw her in my mind's eye lying off to the side, badly injured. My in-laws were visiting from back East and stood shocked with disbelief as I immediately drove off after my daughter in my car, telling them I was taking her to the hospital ER. So it was. There are other examples, but these will serve.
          I also had encountered Edgar Cayce's writings, but it was Steiner I immediately absorbed at age 29.

          Sincerely,

          My2Cents


          --- On Tue 06/20, < Cheeseandsalsa@... > wrote:
          From: [mailto: Cheeseandsalsa@...]
          To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:19:12 EDT
          Subject: Re: [steiner] Online anthroposophical discussions

          In a message dated 6/20/2006 11:25:26 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
          DrStarman@... writes:
          I'd
          wanted to respond to this even though it's taken me awhile to do so,
          because it's a big problem I've run into often. As some of you know, I
          was born with psychic ability, and took up the Edgar Cayce readings and
          anthroposophy to train it, and I ran into just what you described ----for
          instance, when old teachers at the Waldorf Institute where I got my
          training would talk about the things in Steiner's books, but didn't want
          to admit they had no psychic ability themselves.

          I have had the experience over and over again by teachers in anthroposophy
          that my psychic experiences cannot be real or true. I have sat
          in "Philosophy of Freedom", "Theosophy", "Occult Science, "Knowledge of
          Higher Worlds" book studies and on several occasions with the teacher
          directly looking me in the eye telling me they are delusions. Now, how in
          the world did this get skewed so badly? I already know why but come on
          people? I have talked with many people who love anthroposophy but cannot
          tolerate its followers. Hmmm, sounds familiar . I believe certain
          anthroposophists strive and strive and do the exercises and they get caught in
          their own downfalls and then accuse the "seers" as being frauds. Oh,
          the joys of 3-D. ~Chantel -wandering anthroposophist



















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        • Cheeseandsalsa@aol.com
          Your Saturn return, that is when I discovered Steiner.... Quite a few women I know discover Steiner at that age might have to do more with childhood info
          Message 4 of 8 , Jun 22, 2006
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            Your Saturn return, that is when I discovered Steiner....  Quite a few women I know discover Steiner at that age might have to do more with childhood info regarding waldorf though.  Not sure because after 29 you are entering those precious Christ years.  I've studied Cayce as well and have not been drawn to that however.  Steiner is among much other stuff always integrating.  That is my two cents in a hurry. 
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