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Re: [steiner] Online anthroposophical discussions

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  • Sue
    ......To conceptualize the spiritual world as laid out by Rudolf Steiner, does not necessarily require a visit as such, across the Threshold. With all of the
    Message 1 of 8 , Jun 1 3:28 AM
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      ......To conceptualize the spiritual world as laid out by Rudolf
      Steiner, does not necessarily require a 'visit' as such, across the
      Threshold. With all of the information/indications outlined by Steiner,
      we have a creative/imaginative process which leads us to an awareness
      of this 'unseen world', eg. we don't 'see' Christ, but the
      manifestations of His works. If we are looking for Christ in the
      clouds, we are still thinking materially.

      As it turns out, we do visit the spiritual world every night during
      sleep - a little pralaya for the physical body. I don't need to 'see'
      this world to know it exists and I HAVE to trust that on falling
      asleep, I will wake up again. This is trusting - without the security
      of existence. We have no choice here ( like death) unless we
      artificially interfere in some way or have an illness, we must succumb
      to sleep. We know that something happens during this sleep that will
      sustain us until the next pralaya. Each night we die to the physical
      world only to be reborn anew in the morning. We trust that we WILL wake
      up. This experience is known to every human being. The body lies as if
      dead, while our Ego and Astral Body weave among the vast expanse of
      spiritual beings, according to Rudolf Steiner. One only has to want to
      know more about it and you will find there is so much to read. So the
      body divides itself at sleep - the Spirit/Ego Body - the Being which
      makes us Human -Thinking - and the Astral or Feeling Body, both leave
      our Physical/Etheric/ Life Body to itself and trusting in other unseen
      Beings (Angels) to keep us breathing and alive.

      This also happens during meditation .. the Thinking flies off and
      'forgets' itself ... the Feeling connects to it's memory prior to birth
      ie. the spiritual world and rests. The Will is much more uncontrollable
      , wanting to connect the three back as a united Being .. to plant the
      feet back firmly on the ground. To hold you back. This is my own
      experience. I can't speak of seeing the unseen world as Rudolf Steiner
      did, but I CAN see the deeds of this unseen (spiritual) world. "... and
      they shall be known by their deeds" I can see the Threshold. I see it
      living in humanity as it reaches the precipice. What else IS the
      Threshold, if it's not the meeting of "the 3 Beasts" in Man? FEAR,
      DOUBT and HATE! All of us stand at the Threshold, meeting the Guardian,
      who demands of the Self to choose. But we DOUBT! and we FEAR and we
      HATE. It is only Man who can redeem them! It is only we who can Love.

      Rudolf Steiner has lovingly given us such a wide eyed glimpse of the
      spiritual world in mostly all of his writings and lectures, that we are
      able to first conceptualize (our safety net so to speak) through our
      own understanding and then to trust in that whatever comes to meet us
      from out of the future, is not soul destroying, or worse .. Spirit
      destroying, because we know enough to be able to trust ... without our
      security in existence. Three moral steps forward - one step closer to
      Spiritland.

      .... Sue.

      Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
    • Durward Starman
      ******* I d wanted to respond to this even though it s taken me awhile to do so, because it s a big problem I ve run into often. As some of you know, I was
      Message 2 of 8 , Jun 20 9:22 AM
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        ******* I'd wanted to respond to this even though it's taken me awhile to do
        so, because it's a big problem I've run into often. As some of you know, I
        was born with psychic ability, and took up the Edgar Cayce readings and
        anthroposophy to train it, and I ran into just what you described ----for
        instance, when old teachers at the Waldorf Institute where I got my training
        would talk about the things in Steiner's books, but didn't want to admit
        they had no psychic ability themselves. I had direct knowledge, but often
        had to avoid embarassing the teacher in the classroom, especially when they
        were merely speculating and got 'way off from the truth.

        But more than that, it's not really true for people to think they 'have
        no psychic ability'. As some of the older generation of anthroposophists
        knew from following the philosophic path of intensifying thinking (for
        instance through using the Philosophy of Freedom), "ordinary" thinking
        itself --- I mean pure thinking, as in mathematics, geometry, etc. --- is
        actually a psychic experience---- as is also the absolute realization of
        oneself as an "I am". What was most sad was when some of those who had never
        made a breakthrough to psychic experience were in that rut because they
        never reached the point of experiencing their thinking itself in this new
        way. They had psychic experiences but were unwilling or unable to recognize
        them as such, and so could go no further. One fellow taught the class in the
        Philosophy of Freedom while never having gotten the resut it can give!

        See, we must reject dualism, the idea that etheric forces, astral
        phenomena, etc., are things "other than" what we are experiencing, because
        we actually ARE experiencing them all the time, just normally under a veil,
        so to speak. A "habit", for instance, is an etheric force-form, an
        "emotion" is an astral movement. The astral body presses in more to the
        physical when we cry, expands out of it more when we laugh. What is
        important is to experience these as pure ideas at first while reading
        Theosophy or Occult Science, because we need to lift ourselves up into pure
        thinking, which is what we use the spirit to do --- and then look "down"
        from that standpoint. That's why we study the books as a tool of initiation.
        But then, not being able to connect one's thought-pictures to the rest of
        the reality we experience is the result of a lack of confidence in thinking,
        as Steiner pointed out so often. It's essential.

        As for the folks online who pretend to be psychic ---- well, that's why
        I keep this list going, so there's a place where people can study spiritual
        science without distortions of it. The false egotists can have their
        soapboxes, but that is no help at all to a Waldorf teacher, a bio-dynamic
        farmer, an "astrosopher" like myself, or any other "worker in the vineyard"
        who is seeking to walk this path, and for whom this medium could be so much.

        -starman

        www.DrStarman.com



        >--- ignorantspirit <ignorantspirit@...> wrote:
        >
        > > I think that people's egos spoil many of the online
        > > discussions related to Anthroposophy. I'm not referring to a
        > > recent posting on this list or to any particular person on this list,
        > > but rather to what I've noticed on various lists related to the
        > > subject over the years.
        > >
        > > Many people on these lists like to come across as
        > > having all the answers instead of searching for answers.
        > >
        > > Since Anthroposophy is all about learning to see
        > > into the spirit world, it must be difficult for someone who has been
        > > involved with Anthroposophy for many years to admit that he/she is
        > > still unable to see into the spirit world. I guess the more someone
        > > has positioned himself/herself in society as an expert on spiritual
        > > matters, the more embarrassing it would be to admit that he/she
        > > is not yet psychic or limited in this ability.
        > >
        > > This causes people to write messages that sort of
        > > give the impression that they received the knowledge
        > > psychically without actually saying so. They make statements without
        > > quoting sources or without making it clear that the statements are
        > > their own hypotheses, thus giving the impression that the
        > > statements are eternal truths that come straight from the spirit
        > > world and are beyond dispute.
        > >
        > > That's a pity, because it makes debate difficult. If
        > > you quote a source, then others can refer back to the source to
        > > see if it has been correctly understood. If you make a hypothesis
        > > and give the reasons why you speculate it to be true, then others
        > > can test the argument and suggest alternative hypotheses. But, if
        > > you give the impression that you've seen the truth in the spirit
        > > world directly, then people who cannot see into the spirit world
        > > cannot participate in the discussion. This causes many of the postings
        > > to these lists to be monologues.
      • Cheeseandsalsa@aol.com
        In a message dated 6/20/2006 11:25:26 A.M. Central Daylight Time, DrStarman@hotmail.com writes: I d wanted to respond to this even though it s taken me awhile
        Message 3 of 8 , Jun 20 1:19 PM
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          In a message dated 6/20/2006 11:25:26 A.M. Central Daylight Time, DrStarman@... writes:
          I'd wanted to respond to this even though it's taken me awhile to do
          so, because it's a big problem I've run into often. As some of you know,  I
          was born with psychic ability, and took up the Edgar Cayce readings and
          anthroposophy to train it, and I ran into just what you described ----for
          instance, when old teachers at the Waldorf Institute where I got my training
          would talk about the things in Steiner's books, but didn't want to admit
          they had no psychic ability themselves.
          I have had the experience over and over again by teachers in anthroposophy that my psychic experiences cannot be real or true.  I have sat in "Philosophy of Freedom", "Theosophy", "Occult Science, "Knowledge of Higher Worlds" book studies and on several occasions with the teacher directly looking me in the eye telling me they are delusions.  Now, how in the world did this get skewed so badly?  I already know why but come on people?  I have talked with many people who love anthroposophy but cannot tolerate its followers.  Hmmm, sounds familiar .  I believe certain anthroposophists strive and strive and do the exercises and they get caught in their own downfalls and then accuse the "seers" as being frauds.  Oh, the joys of 3-D.  ~Chantel -wandering anthroposophist 
        • My2Cents
          I have always had these experiences but learned as a small child not to speak of them. I think it frightened my mother, who had just lost my father from
          Message 4 of 8 , Jun 22 7:24 AM
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            I have always had these experiences but learned as a small child not to speak of them. I think it frightened my mother, who had just lost my father from drowning. An example: At age 19 I was planning a visit to my mother, perhaps 200 miles south of my residence and received a joyful letter from her. In among her usual cheerful comments were her light hearted words "I'll be so glad to see you - there's something I have to tell you!" Immediately I saw in my mind's eye she had breast cancer and would not live long. So it was. Years later my daughter rode a neighbor's horse just out of sight on our dirt road, and I immediately saw her in my mind's eye lying off to the side, badly injured. My in-laws were visiting from back East and stood shocked with disbelief as I immediately drove off after my daughter in my car, telling them I was taking her to the hospital ER. So it was. There are other examples, but these will serve.
            I also had encountered Edgar Cayce's writings, but it was Steiner I immediately absorbed at age 29.

            Sincerely,

            My2Cents


            --- On Tue 06/20, < Cheeseandsalsa@... > wrote:
            From: [mailto: Cheeseandsalsa@...]
            To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:19:12 EDT
            Subject: Re: [steiner] Online anthroposophical discussions

            In a message dated 6/20/2006 11:25:26 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
            DrStarman@... writes:
            I'd
            wanted to respond to this even though it's taken me awhile to do so,
            because it's a big problem I've run into often. As some of you know, I
            was born with psychic ability, and took up the Edgar Cayce readings and
            anthroposophy to train it, and I ran into just what you described ----for
            instance, when old teachers at the Waldorf Institute where I got my
            training would talk about the things in Steiner's books, but didn't want
            to admit they had no psychic ability themselves.

            I have had the experience over and over again by teachers in anthroposophy
            that my psychic experiences cannot be real or true. I have sat
            in "Philosophy of Freedom", "Theosophy", "Occult Science, "Knowledge of
            Higher Worlds" book studies and on several occasions with the teacher
            directly looking me in the eye telling me they are delusions. Now, how in
            the world did this get skewed so badly? I already know why but come on
            people? I have talked with many people who love anthroposophy but cannot
            tolerate its followers. Hmmm, sounds familiar . I believe certain
            anthroposophists strive and strive and do the exercises and they get caught in
            their own downfalls and then accuse the "seers" as being frauds. Oh,
            the joys of 3-D. ~Chantel -wandering anthroposophist



















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          • Cheeseandsalsa@aol.com
            Your Saturn return, that is when I discovered Steiner.... Quite a few women I know discover Steiner at that age might have to do more with childhood info
            Message 5 of 8 , Jun 22 7:33 PM
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              Your Saturn return, that is when I discovered Steiner....  Quite a few women I know discover Steiner at that age might have to do more with childhood info regarding waldorf though.  Not sure because after 29 you are entering those precious Christ years.  I've studied Cayce as well and have not been drawn to that however.  Steiner is among much other stuff always integrating.  That is my two cents in a hurry. 
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