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  • Sue
    Initially, I intended to send the one mail, complete, but my cat decided to press a key, which sent the first mail, unfinished, and as I tried to retrieve it I
    Message 1 of 7 , May 29, 2006
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      Initially, I intended to send the one mail, complete, but my cat
      decided to press a key, which sent the first mail, unfinished, and as I
      tried to retrieve it I accidently sent it again.

      Thank God for your sanity Durward, because from all that I wrote,
      typically, Matthew only read his name. Now I will say to Matthew, that
      once again you have attacked me for voicing my thoughts, which
      incidently was simply a fact and NOT a personal attack. Why does
      everything have to be about you? I have not lied when I called your
      input 'fictional ramblings', because that is exactly what they are. Why
      would that offend you? For as much as you seem to abhor so-called 'new
      age' gobbledy gook, to my mind this is exactly what you represent, even
      unknowingly. I do not see correlations to Anthroposophy at all. This is
      merely a personal observation which I am entitled to. After all, this
      is a STEINER group!

      Thank you Durward for your clarification of the machinations of the
      group, although I still have trouble understanding why people join.

      Aside from the pettiness of all this, I am very interested in gaining a
      greater insight into Astrosophy as this seems to be such an elusive
      area of Anthroposophy. When I read 'Spiritual Hierarchies' , "Planetary
      Spheres " etc., I look at the planetary influences and then try to
      relate it to the natal chart, it presents a very different picture ie.
      from Ptolemaic to Copernicanism. My thoughts are not clear, as I
      struggle with the Precession of the Equinoxes, the idea of Venus and
      Mercury being reversed and that Uranus, Neptune and Pluto which are in
      our Solar System and yet have no influence on our sojourn on earth. I
      have a picture, although a little blurry about the journey of the soul
      after death, until the midnight sun and we begin our descent once more.
      I guess it's according to our karma, but it seems that we are offered
      gifts from the planets that have their expression through the
      particular zodiac sign that stands behind the planet at the moment of
      conception and or birth. To me, it's like a little suitcase that we
      pick up on our way down, that we carry with us through this incarnation
      which gradually unfolds as we awaken to our own potential. These are
      the gifts or lessons from the Hierarchies which we ourselves have
      chosen as compensation for our deeds between birth and death. This is
      my simplistic understanding of it. How do we reconcile the Precession
      of the Equinoxes? Do we now take the sign BEFORE our birth as the Sun
      sign? From what I can make out, the Moon is the instigator through its
      aspect to other planets ...the sphere of the Angels, the one closest to
      Man. I would appreciate any clarity you may be able to bring to this
      very complex weaving of heavenly signs.

      .....Sue.



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    • Durward Starman
      ... *******As an occcultist in the hometown of the Christian Broadcasting Network, I know many people who would doubt my having any mind not under the
      Message 2 of 7 , May 29, 2006
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        >
        >Thank God for your sanity Durward, because from all that I wrote,
        >typically, Matthew only read his name. Now I will say to Matthew, that
        >once again you have attacked me for voicing my thoughts, which
        >incidently was simply a fact and NOT a personal attack. Why does
        >everything have to be about you? I have not lied when I called your
        >input 'fictional ramblings', because that is exactly what they are. Why
        >would that offend you? For as much as you seem to abhor so-called 'new
        >age' gobbledy gook, to my mind this is exactly what you represent, even
        >unknowingly. I do not see correlations to Anthroposophy at all. This is
        >merely a personal observation which I am entitled to. After all, this
        >is a STEINER group!


        *******As an occcultist in the hometown of the Christian Broadcasting
        Network, I know many people who would doubt my having any mind not under the
        direction of the Evil One--- and as an academic who dares to suggest things
        about the Spirit, I know many who probably doubt I have ANY sanity. So thank
        you for you reassurance. ;->
        Well, Matt gives this list a lot of his time and energy, and his fiction
        writing is especially for us. But yes, I noticed that in the response to
        those few words the entire subject of religion and science fell by the
        wayside. I would have preferred a response to that...


        >
        >I am very interested in gaining a
        >greater insight into Astrosophy as this seems to be such an elusive
        >area of Anthroposophy. When I read 'Spiritual Hierarchies' , "Planetary
        > Spheres " etc., I look at the planetary influences and then try to
        >relate it to the natal chart, it presents a very different picture ie.
        >from Ptolemaic to Copernicanism. My thoughts are not clear, as I
        >struggle with the Precession of the Equinoxes, the idea of Venus and
        >Mercury being reversed and that Uranus, Neptune and Pluto which are in
        >our Solar System and yet have no influence on our sojourn on earth. I
        >have a picture, although a little blurry about the journey of the soul
        >after death, until the midnight sun and we begin our descent once more.
        >I guess it's according to our karma, but it seems that we are offered
        >gifts from the planets that have their expression through the
        >particular zodiac sign that stands behind the planet at the moment of
        >conception and or birth. To me, it's like a little suitcase that we
        >pick up on our way down, that we carry with us through this incarnation
        >which gradually unfolds as we awaken to our own potential. These are
        >the gifts or lessons from the Hierarchies which we ourselves have
        >chosen as compensation for our deeds between birth and death. This is
        >my simplistic understanding of it. How do we reconcile the Precession
        >of the Equinoxes? Do we now take the sign BEFORE our birth as the Sun
        >sign? From what I can make out, the Moon is the instigator through its
        >aspect to other planets ...the sphere of the Angels, the one closest to
        >Man. I would appreciate any clarity you may be able to bring to this
        >very complex weaving of heavenly signs.
        >
        >.....Sue.


        *******Steiner used BOTH the signs and the stars. (Proof of this is in the
        writings of his direct pupil Dr. Elizabeth Vreede.) Each is true in a
        different way. The 12 signs are the divisions of the Sun's annual rise and
        fall, which has so much to do with the distribution of the four ethers, or
        what the ancients called the 4 Elements, Fire, Air, Water and Earth. It is
        the 12 divisions of the etheric world. The stars are the 12 patterns of the
        astral plane. They are the same only every 26,000 years. [The variation of
        the two has much to do with why "evolution" happens... which is another
        story.]

        In between lives we stand before the 12 hierarchies of super-astral
        beings who help us plan our next life. [This is portrayed beautifully, by
        the way, in the windows of the Goetheanum.] According to what we have done
        in the life just completed, we are drawn more to one or a few of these than
        to the others.

        The offspring of these star-beings are the planets, which carry out their
        will. We pass through all the planets after death, like the old story of the
        goddess who wore seven veils and had to remove one as she descended each of
        the seven steps to the underworld. We deposit all the courage we have
        developed in one life in the sphere of Mars as we pass beyond to the stars,
        for instance; then, the planetary intelligence of Mars communicates with the
        other planetary intelligences while we are "on sabbatical" up yonder.
        Imagine taking a vacation from an executive job in the Bahamas, and you
        deposit all your moiney in some offshore accounts while you enjoy awhile in
        the sun. Then when you prepare to return, you have to pick up everything you
        deposited from each bank, converted back to your home country's currency.
        Similarly, we pick up everything we've earned again but now in a changed
        form. The planetary intelligence of Mars communicated with those of Jupiter
        and Saturn, and that's why we are born with Mars in this or that "aspect" to
        Jupiter and Saturn. These aspects are the same, by the way, regardless of
        using tropical or sidereal zodiac, as is the position of the planets at
        ascendancy, culmination, etc.

        Then we have the offspring of the Planets, the elemental beings or nature
        spirits down here on earth with us (or partially so). They are connected
        with our deeper, habitual nature, the etheric body rather than the astral.
        It is indicated by the 4 ethers, the 12 signs. This is why Western astrology
        with its "tropical zodiac" works even though looking at it astronomically
        with the intellect it seems like it shouldn't be able to.

        A good lecture-cycle to start with is "The Spiritual Hierarchies: Their
        Reflection in the Physical World" which has recently been reprinted.

        This raises more questions than it answers, but that's what discussion
        groups are for, isn't it? A running discussion rather than a proclamation
        "This is so!" This is a science, after all.

        -starman
      • My2Cents
        Dear Mathew, Indeed your so-called ramblings very clearly do carry Anthroposophical truths and in an especially well written and graphic style - I was
        Message 3 of 7 , Jun 1, 2006
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          Dear Mathew,

          Indeed your so-called "ramblings" very clearly do carry Anthroposophical truths and in an especially well written and graphic style - I was especially effected by your recent "ramblings" in which you depicted the individual riding on a train after being helped aboard by the strange individual, about whom you maintained a subtle continuing nuance of evil. At the time of reading this work I was especially effected by your balance of "trusting innocence" versus "cunning pure evil" and the ramifications of this particular writing of your's still reverberates within my being.

          I look forward to "Lightening Bolt's" next offering.

          Blessings,

          My 2 Cents


          --- On Mon 05/29, Mathew Morrell < tma4cbt@... > wrote:
          From: Mathew Morrell [mailto: tma4cbt@...]
          To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 18:57:07 -0000
          Subject: [steiner] Re: MM's ramblings

          All my fictional "ramblings" are anthroposophically centered, whether I'm writing from the standpoint of a nihilist alcoholic or I'm writing from the standpoint of a mystic landscape artist. Just because I don't smother my stories in New Age gobbly guke doesn't mean there isn't a profound message underlying my work. I work very hard making sure there's divine meaning in all my stories. Right now I'm working on a story that I've meditated upon for quit a long time now, and finally "the story" has come to be like a flash of lightning from out of the blue. With loving care I'm rendering the story for this group---and only this group. It is a gift.Mathew "lightning bolt" Morrellwww.kcpost.net

          _______________________________________________
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          Make My Way your home on the Web - http://www.myway.com
        • Mathew Morrell
          Thanks for the compliment! ... Anthroposophical truths and in an especially well written and graphic style - I was especially effected by your recent
          Message 4 of 7 , Jun 1, 2006
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            Thanks for the compliment!



            --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "My2Cents" <my2cents@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > Dear Mathew,
            >
            > Indeed your so-called "ramblings" very clearly do carry
            Anthroposophical truths and in an especially well written and graphic
            style - I was especially effected by your recent "ramblings" in which
            you depicted the individual riding on a train after being helped
            aboard by the strange individual, about whom you maintained a subtle
            continuing nuance of evil. At the time of reading this work I was
            especially effected by your balance of "trusting innocence"
            versus "cunning pure evil" and the ramifications of this particular
            writing of your's still reverberates within my being.
            >
            > I look forward to "Lightening Bolt's" next offering.
            >
            > Blessings,
            >
            > My 2 Cents
            >
            >
            > --- On Mon 05/29, Mathew Morrell < tma4cbt@... > wrote:
            > From: Mathew Morrell [mailto: tma4cbt@...]
            > To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 18:57:07 -0000
            > Subject: [steiner] Re: MM's ramblings
            >
            > All my fictional "ramblings" are anthroposophically centered,
            whether I'm writing from the standpoint of a nihilist alcoholic or
            I'm writing from the standpoint of a mystic landscape artist. Just
            because I don't smother my stories in New Age gobbly guke doesn't
            mean there isn't a profound message underlying my work. I work very
            hard making sure there's divine meaning in all my stories. Right now
            I'm working on a story that I've meditated upon for quit a long time
            now, and finally "the story" has come to be like a flash of lightning
            from out of the blue. With loving care I'm rendering the story for
            this group---and only this group. It is a gift.Mathew "lightning
            bolt" Morrellwww.kcpost.net
            >
            > _______________________________________________
            > No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
            > Make My Way your home on the Web - http://www.myway.com
            >
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