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Re: [steiner] Science and Religion

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  • Sue
    To All, The fact that everyone IS so quiet in this group, is a discussion in itself. Apart from M. Morrell s fictional ramblings, it s as if everyone is
    Message 1 of 5 , May 28 9:25 PM
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      To All,

      The fact that everyone IS so quiet in this group, is a discussion in
      itself. Apart from M. Morrell's fictional ramblings, it's as if
      everyone is paralysed. I try to put myself in their shoes and ask
      myself why people feel that they want to be a memeber of this group and
      yet don't partake. Is it because they want to be on the periphery and
      merely watch? (for what?), or is it that they feel they have nothing to
      contribute? Or is it because they are afraid of saying something which
      might be in error?

      It is my experience, that the human being cannot perpetually take
      without giving something back. There is no-one in this group, including
      myself, who 'knows" everything. In fact I believe that those who feel
      they 'know' everything are mistaken. The concept of a group, must
      surely be the hope of honest discussion - a to-ing and fro-ing of
      ideas, hopefully in a Goethean way - and since this IS a Steiner group,
      one must presume that people either know something about Spiritual
      Scince or want to know.

      I am going to put my head on the chopping block and open myself up for
      criticism and judgment!

      I don't know how many peole here are anthropops, or even if they
      understand Anthroposophy, but there must be a curiosity. It's tru that
      through meditation, the Silence speaks, however the Silence can't be
      heard by those who have not prepared themselves to HEAR!





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    • Sue
      continued; I see Spiritual Science as a religion because it is THE GREAT RELIGION for ALL of humanity. In the School of Michael, one confronts his own humanity
      Message 2 of 5 , May 28 10:18 PM
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        continued;

        I see Spiritual Science as a religion because it is THE GREAT RELIGION
        for ALL of humanity. In the School of Michael, one confronts his own
        humanity AND the Guardian that leads to the spiritual world. Spiritual
        Science gives us the tools to take the vertical path upwards but we
        must never forget the horizontal ie. the community of man in which we
        live. If we ascend without Spiritual Science, we are caught in a
        phantom world of Imagination and can go no further. With Spiritual
        Science, the journey has no limits. It is only limited by our own
        understanding and fear.

        We learn in the Michael School about the three beasts - mainfesting as
        fear, doubt and hate. These beasts are the first beings we encounter on
        this vertical path. They insist that we become accountable for our own
        Thinking, Feeling and Willing. Michael gives us the courage to
        overcome. We find the counter-forces/faces of these beings who are
        destined to take us in another direction ie. only the downward vertical
        path, or only the horizontal path, or only the upward vertical. It is
        the Cross itself which symbolises the three paths. It is the sign of
        the Rosicrucian, a symbol of dying and becoming. The details can be
        found in Steiner's writing on the Rosicrucian eg. "The Secret Stream".

        There is another yahoo group called 'spiritual science', of which I was
        a 'member' for a short while. Within this group, as in most groups,
        there was one person who constantly espoused his 'wisdom', which was so
        abstract, that his words had a deadening effect on the group. I found
        myself questioning the validity of the group's title as the philosophy
        seemed to be more gnostic than Anthroposophical (what I perceive as
        true Spiritual Science), but I was dismissed and intimidated ( perhaps
        a fear of some in this group), so I left. My choice... no worries! My
        point is this and one that Steiner himself makes with regard to the
        orthodox religions, including Gnosticism and that is, that the world is
        still worshipping the old Jehovah/ Father God. The God of the Old
        Testament. It's as if the Son never came, or that the Son leads us to
        the Father anyway so why bother with the Son? With Anthroposophy, the
        cornerstone of our understanding is the Christ. The Turning Point in
        Time - the Mystery of Golgotha. Not Jesus - but Christ! In the
        worshipping of the Father God, Islam and orthodox religions are the
        same. Anthroposophy is the most difficult path because it requires our
        own Thinking to sort out the confusion. We have to leave our prejudices
        at the door and re-think our stand. This path is not without effort,
        nor is it easy, but it surely leads us to the Truth. The truth of the
        Triad. We have been tricked into seeing only duality - black, white,
        good, evil etc. I f we only ever see the duality, we are compelled to
        be one-sided - either one or the other. This is a lie. In Anthroposophy
        we always insert the one in between, while the two become polar
        opposites ( Luciferic or Ahrimanic) Without Christ, we are one-sided.
        Here is true Christianity. The Middle Path. It never denies the two
        sides, but sets about to balance them. Without the duality we could
        never have the possibilty of meeting the Christ. We cannot deny them,
        but we can meet them and redeem them.

        The most wonderful thing about Anthroposophy, is that we are free to
        think for ourselves. To individualise our journey - at least until we
        reach the 'top' - there, the view is the same for all. "Steiner says" -
        'why walk around the mountain to find the path upwards - begin from the
        point at which you already stand.' The path is unique to each
        individual --- how much more could the 'I' ask for?

        I encourage people to not be afraid... to not doubt and most of all to
        put aside their hate. As Michael says " to trust ... without the
        security of existence". Then we can truly LIVE!

        I also urge everyone to read "The Art of Goethean Conversation" by
        Marjorie Spock. We can learn much from this little book. How to truly
        hear what another is saying - even the Silence! How to engage in our
        true humanity, through our own silence and a sincere, unprejudiced and
        lively response to the actual subject being discussed. In this time,
        conversation is shallow, as one person talks over another and
        introduces a new subject (subjective). Even as one person is either
        talking or interjecting, neither actually hears their own words either.
        People perpetually speak nonsense or as Rudolf Steiner says "untruths".

        peace and love ... Sue.




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      • Durward Starman
        Well, Sue, I ve had a bit of experience the past few years in online groups, even before the owner of this list asked me to moderate it. And from that I can
        Message 3 of 5 , May 29 7:58 AM
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          Well, Sue, I've had a bit of experience the past few years in online
          groups, even before the owner of this list asked me to moderate it. And from
          that I can say that it's just as well that a list is quiet, because most of
          the "talk", even on so-called 'anthroposophical' lists, is bad-tempered,
          trivial and not worthy of people supposedly on the spiritual path. Many
          people feel the medium itself somehow inhibits 'Goethean' conversation,
          where one soul truly meets another and significant things are said---- I
          don't think so, but rather that we are at many and varied stages of
          development as individuals, and this is a medium open to the masses;
          therefore, gibberish, scatological graffiti and infantile rantings often are
          the majority of the mindless "contributions". Just go into any chat room
          allegedly for the purpose of discussing one topic or another and see how
          little that topic is discussed and how much is people on their little
          soap-box, or getting ego-gratification, or flirting. So I favor quality
          rather than quantity.

          Also, in any group there are about 5% of individuals strong enough to
          speak out, while the majority are usually content to listen a large
          percentage of the time. We who post are therefore, in a way, the
          representatives of the silent majority and need to try to act as such, and
          occasionally one of the others will be drawn out into communication. As far
          as this group is concerned, for some reason an incredibly large number of
          people choose to have no e-mail delivered to their mail-boxes, meaning that
          a conversation in anything remotely approaching real time is impossible.
          They go to the web-site to read the posts whenerver they feel like it,
          meaning nothing is predictable or can be organized easily, as the failure to
          study together this past Holy Nights showed. So it requires patience.

          Perhaps people could post something here about how they are using or wish
          to use spirit-science in their lives. We have some Waldorf teachers here and
          undoubtedly a few people involved in bio-dynamic agriculture,
          anthroposophical medicine, the arts, etc. As some of you know, I have used
          it to develop an approach to astrology and practice as an astrologer. That's
          a pretty big subject in itself. I also am a painter and musician and try to
          bring higher consciousness into my work with both: I've been trained in
          painting but there seems to be no unified approach to music from out of
          anthroposophy to study yet.


          -starman
          www.DrStarman.com





          >From: Sue <aquariusrises2001@...>
          >Reply-To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
          >To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: Re: [steiner] Science and Religion
          >Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 05:24:34 +0100 (BST)
          >
          >To All,
          >
          >The fact that everyone IS so quiet in this group, is a discussion in
          >itself. Apart from M. Morrell's fictional ramblings, it's as if
          >everyone is paralysed. I try to put myself in their shoes and ask
          >myself why people feel that they want to be a memeber of this group and
          >yet don't partake. Is it because they want to be on the periphery and
          >merely watch? (for what?), or is it that they feel they have nothing to
          >contribute? Or is it because they are afraid of saying something which
          >might be in error?
          >
          >It is my experience, that the human being cannot perpetually take
          >without giving something back. There is no-one in this group, including
          >myself, who 'knows" everything. In fact I believe that those who feel
          >they 'know' everything are mistaken. The concept of a group, must
          >surely be the hope of honest discussion - a to-ing and fro-ing of
          >ideas, hopefully in a Goethean way - and since this IS a Steiner group,
          >one must presume that people either know something about Spiritual
          >Scince or want to know.
          >
          >I am going to put my head on the chopping block and open myself up for
          >criticism and judgment!
          >
          >I don't know how many peole here are anthropops, or even if they
          >understand Anthroposophy, but there must be a curiosity. It's tru that
          >through meditation, the Silence speaks, however the Silence can't be
          >heard by those who have not prepared themselves to HEAR!
          >
          >
          >
          >___________________________________________________________
          >The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from
          >your Internet provider. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
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