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[steiner] The Being of the Internet.

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  • Sue
    The Being of the Internet - according to Prokofieff - is placing Anthroposophy into an occult prison . He cites Rudolf Steiner s insights from a lecture in
    Message 1 of 17 , Oct 1, 2005
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      The Being of the Internet - according to Prokofieff - is placing Anthroposophy into an "occult
      prison". He cites Rudolf Steiner's insights from a lecture in Dornach on May 13th 1921
      .."Perspectives on Humanity's Development ". ( I have not yet found it ) in which the Doctor talks
      about "terrible creations ...mineral-plant like beings .. with a super-natural wisdom ...enmeshing
      humanity into a web encompassing the whole earth .. terrible spider creatures .... which will link
      up with empathy but evil intentions .. and man will have to unite with these terrible spider
      creatures."

      Mr Prokofieff gives a very plausible and comprehensible discourse on the negatives of the
      Internet ( the Being ). Unfortunately, as far as I'm aware, this article is not accessible on the
      net..however I have typed up a copy on word if anyone would like to read .. just let me know.
      I have to be honest and say, I have not read anything of Prokofieff prior to this ( yes I live
      under a rock ) but I am aware of the politics and schism within the Anthro Soc. I don't believe it
      coloured my perception of this piece.

      There is definitely an urgency in this article ...but more .. fear! I understand this .. but Mr
      Prokofieff seems more concerned about the release of the Verlags long held treasure store
      This too I understand ... I would ask Mr Prokofieff the question ... Was it not Rudolf Steiners
      intention, from the Christmas Conference of '23, to make Anthroposophy an open secret?
      Can we shut ourselves away from the world wide web ... and not face Ahriman or Sorat?
      Are we not compelled as Anthroposophists, to look Ahriman in the eye? Can we not use his
      cleverness for our own service? Surely this is what we MUST do. The net is here ... we live in the
      world ... I can't help but wonder why Mr Prokofieff seems to think that we are incapable of
      resistance ... should we hang ourselves now?

      He makes a very powerful statement, arousing fear and hopelessness. At least it was the message I
      got. Surely we are not all as stupid as Prokofieff suggests .. are we?

      Peace ... Sue.





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    • LilOleMissy
      Dear Sue, I would very much appreciate the Word document of Sergei Prokofieff s and wonder if perhaps you might place it in the FILES section of our group for
      Message 2 of 17 , Oct 1, 2005
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        Dear Sue,

        I would very much appreciate the Word document of Sergei Prokofieff's and wonder if perhaps you might place it in the FILES section of our group for all to read? From what you outline below, I am reminded of Steiner's lecture describing our future earth as very similar to a spider's web, which I seem to recall typing up for Chris Bodame to include in his collection of articles at http://www.transintelligence.org.
        Unless I'm greatly mistaken, I seem to remember the title as "A Future Look at the Earth"or perhaps "The Future of the Earth", perhaps what may have been re-entitled as "Perspectives on Humanity's Development", in which Steiner describes the earth as interconnected via web-like creations or structures. Indeed, the WEB composing the Internet is indeed like a spider's web, an excellent analogy. I wonder if you would be kind enough to review this lecture of Steiner's words concerning this similar scene you describe in your posting in case it is the same you cite here?

        It is difficult to connect traits such as "fear" or "hopelessness" with Sergei Prokofieff but even Steiner received the same accusations upon his giving the above mentioned lecture. I am also reminded of Steiner's speaking of Blavatsky as being "occultly imprisoned" and unless I am mistaken, that is to be found in the collection of lectures entitled "The Occult Movement of the 19th Century" or words very similar.

        I find it a surprise to ponder on possible conflicts within the Society in relation to Steiner's well known forsight regarding a "network" with an insight into this specific future Prokofieff apparently has reminded some of.  However, Anthroposophy has apparently always been at times teetering "on the edge" by mankinds' undeveloped abilities which lie in the future as well as currently for those organically and well versed in Steiner's Anthroposophy. Many of us are saddened by unnecessary conflicts existing within the Society/Movement as Steiner himself expressed so painfully during his life on earth.

        My apologies for continually referring to Steiner, regardless of his work setting the standard, so to say, for me, and he did speak of our inability to avoid modern life with such things as electric lights, motorized transportation, etc., [I believe he was very fond of riding in automobiles as well as trains] while he stressed it is HOW we experience modern life that is at the crux of the matter. As my dear mentor continually reminded me, we would not be able to even study Anthroposophy well, or attend its lectures beyond daylight hours if we did not have such ready inventions as electric lights, transportation, etc.. I smile while thinking of how Steiner referred to books as Ahriman's "preserving jars" but Steiner even wrote books, therefore it all boils down to HOW we utilitize all of mankind's technology, including computers and internet usage.

        Based upon your words, Sue, it seems to me Prokofieff is citing Steiner's foresightful warnings accurately, and I greatly appreciate your posting.

        As Always,

        Sheila

        Sue wrote:
        The Being of the Internet - according to Prokofieff - is placing Anthroposophy into an "occult
        prison".  He cites Rudolf Steiner's insights from a lecture in Dornach on May 13th 1921
        .."Perspectives on Humanity's Development ". ( I have not yet found it ) in which the Doctor talks
        about "terrible creations ...mineral-plant like beings .. with a super-natural wisdom ...enmeshing
        humanity into a web encompassing the whole earth .. terrible spider creatures .... which will link
        up with empathy but evil intentions .. and man will have to unite with these terrible spider
        creatures."
        
        Mr Prokofieff gives a very plausible and comprehensible discourse on the negatives of the 
        Internet ( the Being ). Unfortunately, as far as I'm aware, this article is not accessible on the 
        net..however I have typed up a copy on word if anyone would like to read .. just let me know.
        I have to be honest and say, I have not read anything of Prokofieff prior to this ( yes I live
        under a rock ) but I am aware of the politics and schism within the Anthro Soc. I don't believe it
        coloured my perception of this piece.
        
        There is definitely an urgency in this article ...but more .. fear!  I understand this .. but Mr
        Prokofieff seems more concerned about the release of the Verlags long held treasure store
        This too I understand ... I would ask Mr Prokofieff the question ... Was it not Rudolf Steiners
        intention, from the Christmas Conference of '23, to make Anthroposophy an open secret?
        Can we shut ourselves away from the world wide web ... and not face Ahriman or Sorat? 
        Are we not compelled as Anthroposophists, to look Ahriman in the eye?  Can we not use his
        cleverness for our own service? Surely this is what we MUST do. The net is here ... we live in the
        world ... I can't help but wonder why Mr Prokofieff seems to think that we are incapable of
        resistance ... should we hang ourselves now? 
        
        He makes a very powerful statement, arousing fear and hopelessness. At least it was the message I
        got. Surely we are not all as stupid as Prokofieff suggests .. are we?
        
        Peace ...   Sue.
        
        
        	
        	
        		
          

      • Sue
        Dear Sheila, As you requested, I have placed the document in the files for all to see. You are correct in seeing the lecture of May 13th, 1921 as a re-entitled
        Message 3 of 17 , Oct 1, 2005
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          Dear Sheila,

          As you requested, I have placed the document in the files for all to see.

          You are correct in seeing the lecture of May 13th, 1921 as a re-entitled lecture - it seems to
          have been called " Earth Evolution in the Future." Sadly I do not have a copy here and it wasn't
          to be found in the 'transintelligence' site. Thank you for steering me there, this is a good
          example of utilising the net for our own purposes, i.e. exchange of insightful info ...
          Michaelic.

          My purpose in drawing attention to this lecture , was not so much Prokofieff's colouring of it,
          but more to question our own involvement with the net. As we exchange 'silent' information,
          through compacted and condensed light, with faceless names and a plethora of dis/mis -
          information, we surely must be aware, as you say, of HOW we utilise this medium of man's
          technology. Are we insulated from Sorat if we keep Michael's mission uppermost in our thinking? Or
          are we deluding ourselves? Maybe it's not so much the HOW, but more the WHY!

          I have to say, I have never had a sense of fear or hopelessness from any of Steiner's writings, as
          he always brought/brings everything back to the individual being responsible for his own future
          and was diligent in his efforts to achieve this on behalf of humanity. For this, I can only bow in
          awe and reverential gratitude. For those of us who embrace Anthroposophy, are we not compelled to
          find Truth in everything that comes to meet us? To question, with clarity in thinking (although I
          readily admit to hazy days) even Steiner himself?

          Indeed it was my mentor ( now 80 years young) who brought my attention to this article, with a
          request to bring it to the group for discussion. I sense fear in people who feel either from
          ignorance or an unwillingness to look stupid, or maybe even apathy, a resistance to offer any
          discourse, preferring instead to passively observe and not venture into this fear ridden 'great
          unknown'. Fear paralyses people ... just as Ahriman wants. It begs the question...just what are we
          afraid of? With Michael as our Guardian and Christ by our side, can we only hope to muddle our way
          through? By participating in this earthly round, with a questioning heart, some clear thinking and
          bringing our own individuality to meet others in a lively exchange of thoughts, we live more in
          freedom, otherwise are we not the servants of Sorat?

          Like you Sheila, I too am saddened by the fractures in the Society/Movement, but it also means
          that people are starting to think for themselves, this I find hopeful. Steiner surely hoped for
          this - in fact prepared for this. He saw the futility in man against man and sadly saw his beloved
          Anthroposophy fall into 'sleep' after his passing. Now this secret lies open and we surely must
          consciously work in the service of Michael to renew Anthroposophy with a new awareness of it's
          role within the guidance of mankind. Surely too, we must look the Beast in the eye and not be
          afraid. We sacrifice ourselves to the service of Michael.

          Is this merely a Luciferic dream? The alternative? Ahriman's hopelessness! Within this wavering to
          and fro .. we find the fulcrum ... Christ! How do we know Christ when we see Him? You will know!
          Even Sorat - especially Sorat - knows the Christ Being. He can disguise himself as Him.
          Anthroposophy should be the vehicle for this LIVING Christ. He too is bound to the etheric world -
          and the earth - just like Lucifer and Ahriman .. although Ahrimans domain is sub nature and purely
          form. Nevertheless, in this light condensed world of the computer .. can we not use this medium to
          carry the Living Word? Then rather the Beast and not us, would be forever locked in an "occult
          prison."

          Of course through the prosaic nature of the computer, we can actually feel the contraction of our
          being .. withdrawing more and more into our own little worlds, never entering the social sphere...
          not even to oppose, let alone discuss. Are we happy in our little worlds? Or are we so distracted
          with our own inwardness, that we deny the door that leads outward? Christ said..." I am the door!"

          I noticed a long time ago a trend which developed early in Anthroposophy's life , toward a denial,
          in the general perception of Anthroposophy, of the Christ Impulse. I have heard many people say
          ..." Oh, I didn't know it was Christian!" .. with such indignation as if they were surreptitiously
          hoodwinked. I don't recall Rudolf Steiner ever having understated the profound significance of
          the 'great turning point in Time.' Even though he saw religion as another branch of Anthroposophy
          it is undeniably Christian. It is the very heart of Anthroposophy ( a side discussion on the role
          of the Christian Community could be enlivening) Every time the Beast grabs us around the throat -
          we remember -- " not I, but the Christ in me!"

          Maybe the "ginned pastor" ..lol... Mathew Morrell might sing " shine his everloving light on
          me."

          Peace and Love ........as always

          Sue.



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        • LilOleMissy
          Dear Sue, Thank you, thank you for placing Sergei Prokofieff s article in the FILES section for all of us. I ve often wondered how many APs might be aware of
          Message 4 of 17 , Oct 2, 2005
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            Dear Sue,

            Thank you, thank you for placing Sergei Prokofieff's article in the FILES section for all of us. I've often wondered how many APs might be aware of the Steiner lecture to which he refers, but it seems all of us should have access to it as I had assumed everyone had. From the information I have, this May 13, 1921 Dornach lecture by Steiner was entitled "A Picture of the Earth's Future Development" as published in the News Sheet, Vol. 17, 1949 and  in Anthroposophy Quarterly Vol. 8, 1933 under the title " A Picture of Earth Evolution in the Future--TheReunion of the Moon with the Earth" and I find my copy missing, having loaned it to someone at some time as I so often do. It seems to me all of us should have access to this lecture, and I have to admit the atrocity I submitted to this Group via my "Winter Dawn" was the result of my having pondered on this very future we have yet to meet. That poorly done scene showed what lived in my mind: A cold sun, but nevertheless a Christ filled sun, beginning to further redeem the earth planet awakening from pralaya following an incredibly ghastly, yet triumphant, battle mankind wages by the side of Michael but more especially aided by the Living Christ against the Sorat et al Dark Forces. 

            The thought occurs to me: Does everyone on the Steiner list know of this critically important lecture? Should any one of you have access to it, I wonder if it might be posted for all of us to share and perhaps to ponder about? I wondered to myself if it's possible Sue and I might be exchanging thoughts of Steiner's words perhaps unfamiliar to others when all Anthroposophists must realize the critical nature of these thoughts? I would like to ask if anyone knows where this lecture might be available so all of us might have the ability to understand it.

            Sue, your comments below are magnificently drawn through great insightful comprehension of the HOW as well as the WHY, a beautifully crafted wonder of wise insight and solution. Humanity is to redeem the Evil forces, and that always brings to mind Steiner's Stature of the Three: Christ, Lucifer and Ahriman, but we also must reckon with the Beast itself. I also visualize Tolkien's "Lord of the Ring" series - it seems he absorbed far more than Barfield might have anticipated and his similar scenerio to what we shall face in the future clearly highlights our need for preparation through Anthroposophy. Anthroposophy is a living Being which will change as time passes and we ourselves shall also change with the hope for ever deepening development and involvement.

            Your words alone should stand as a Guide for all of us. Thank you, Sue!

            As Always,

            Sheila

            Sue wrote:
            Dear Sheila,
            
            As you requested, I have placed the document in the files for all to see.
            
            You are correct in seeing the lecture of May 13th, 1921 as a re-entitled lecture - it seems to 
            have been called " Earth Evolution in the Future." Sadly I do not have a copy here and it wasn't
            to be found in the 'transintelligence' site. Thank you for steering me there, this is a good
            example of utilising the net for our own purposes, i.e. exchange of insightful info ...
            Michaelic.
            
            My purpose in drawing attention to this lecture , was not so much Prokofieff's colouring of it,
            but more to question our own involvement with the net. As we exchange 'silent' information,
            through compacted and condensed light, with faceless names and a plethora of dis/mis -
            information, we surely must be aware, as you say, of HOW we utilise this medium of man's
            technology. Are we insulated from Sorat if we keep Michael's mission uppermost in our thinking? Or
            are we deluding ourselves? Maybe it's not so much the HOW, but more the WHY!
            
            I have to say, I have never had a sense of fear or hopelessness from any of Steiner's writings, as
            he always brought/brings everything back to the individual being responsible for his own future
            and was diligent in his efforts to achieve this on behalf of humanity. For this, I can only bow in
            awe and reverential gratitude. For those of us who embrace Anthroposophy, are we not compelled to
            find Truth in everything that comes to meet us?  To question, with clarity in thinking (although I
            readily admit to hazy days) even Steiner himself?
            
            Indeed it was my mentor ( now 80 years young) who brought my attention to this article, with a
            request to bring it to the group for discussion. I sense fear in people who feel either from
            ignorance or an unwillingness to look stupid, or maybe even apathy, a resistance to offer any
            discourse, preferring instead to passively  observe and not venture into this fear ridden 'great
            unknown'. Fear paralyses people ... just as Ahriman wants. It begs the question...just what are we
            afraid of? With Michael as our Guardian and Christ by our side, can we only hope to muddle our way
            through? By participating in this earthly round, with a questioning heart, some clear thinking and
            bringing our own individuality to meet others in a lively exchange of thoughts, we live more in
            freedom, otherwise are we not the servants of Sorat?
            
            Like you Sheila, I too am saddened by the fractures in the Society/Movement, but it also means
            that people are starting to think for themselves, this I find hopeful. Steiner surely hoped for
            this - in fact prepared for this. He saw the futility in man against man and sadly saw his beloved
            Anthroposophy fall into 'sleep' after his passing. Now this secret lies open and we surely must
            consciously work in the service of Michael to renew Anthroposophy with a new awareness of it's
            role within the guidance of mankind. Surely too, we must look the Beast in the eye and not be
            afraid. We sacrifice ourselves to the service of Michael.
            
            Is this merely a Luciferic dream? The alternative? Ahriman's hopelessness! Within this wavering to
            and fro .. we find the fulcrum ... Christ! How do we know Christ when we see Him? You will know!
            Even Sorat - especially Sorat - knows the Christ Being. He can disguise himself as Him.
            Anthroposophy should be the vehicle for this LIVING Christ. He too is bound to the etheric world -
            and the earth - just like Lucifer and Ahriman .. although Ahrimans domain is sub nature and purely
            form. Nevertheless, in this light condensed world of the computer .. can we not use this medium to
            carry the Living Word? Then rather the Beast and not us, would be forever locked in an "occult
            prison."
            
            Of course through the prosaic nature of the computer, we can actually feel the contraction of our
            being .. withdrawing more and more into our own little worlds, never entering the social sphere...
            not even to oppose, let alone discuss. Are we happy in our little worlds? Or are we so distracted
            with our own inwardness, that we deny the door that leads outward? Christ said..." I am the door!"
            
            I noticed a long time ago a trend which developed early in Anthroposophy's life , toward a denial,
            in the general perception of Anthroposophy, of the Christ Impulse. I have heard many people say
            ..." Oh, I didn't know it was Christian!" .. with such indignation as if they were surreptitiously
            hoodwinked. I don't recall Rudolf Steiner ever having understated  the profound significance of
            the 'great turning point in Time.' Even though he saw religion as another branch of Anthroposophy
            it is undeniably Christian. It is the very heart of Anthroposophy ( a side discussion on the role
            of the Christian Community could be enlivening)  Every time the Beast grabs us around the throat -
            we remember -- " not I, but the Christ in me!"
            
            Maybe the "ginned pastor"  ..lol... Mathew Morrell might sing  " shine his everloving light on
            me."
            
            Peace and Love ........as always
            
            Sue.
            
            
            		
              

          • Sue
            Dear Sheila, I have at last tracked down this lecture .. it s in the book Materialism and the Task of Anthroposophy lecture 14.. I see we have it in our AS
            Message 5 of 17 , Oct 2, 2005
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              Dear Sheila,

              I have at last tracked down this lecture .. it's in the book "Materialism and the Task of
              Anthroposophy" lecture 14.. I see we have it in our AS library .. I will get it and post ..
              hopefully by the end of the week.

              The Index reads ...

              Materialistic science and spiritual science as spiritual-cosmic events
              between moon's exit and return. The spirit of natural science could give
              rise to a new Kingdom of nature between mineral and plant form in the
              form of shadowy, living spider beings that cover the earth in weblike
              fashion during the latter's reunification with moon and lunar life.
              Humanity would thereby be cut off from world's life and spirituality.
              Cultivation of spiritual science facilitates arrival from other planets of
              spiritual beings who are striving to come to earth since the end of
              the 19th century: their activity becomes possible only by way of a
              thinking that grasps living ensouled elements. Path to this trans-
              formation: unification of clear thinking with artisitic perception in a
              science that will simultaneously become art. Goethe's teaching of
              morphology; his "Hymn to Nature": Nietzsche's picture of the valley of
              death.

              Sheila ... just one more thing ... PLEASE stop denegrating your wonderful artistic work ..
              Have Faith ... negative thinking is NOT clear thinking. Don't let the weariness of negative
              thinking, bring you self doubt. This is NOT who you are.

              Peace and Love ... as always ...

              Sue.

              Mathew ... Hard rain's gonna fall .. maybe the answer is blowin' in the wind?






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            • Anne Nicholson
              Is the Goethe poem I have posted below the one referred to in this lecture? I believe it is the one referred to in The Bible and Wisdom December 5, 1908.
              Message 6 of 17 , Oct 4, 2005
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                Is the Goethe poem I have posted below the one referred to in this lecture? I believe it is the one referred to in "The Bible and Wisdom" December 5, 1908. http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/BibWis_index.html
                 
                Kind Regards,
                Anne N.
                 
                >"Materialism and the Task of Anthroposophy" lecture 14...the Index
                reads ...
                >Path to this transformation: unification of clear thinking with
                artisitic >perception in a science that will simultaneously become art. Goethe's teaching >of morphology; his "Hymn to Nature": Nietzsche's picture of the valley of
                >death.
                 
                --| Nature, a Fragment |---

                Nature! We are surrounded and embraced by her -- powerless to leave
                her and powerless to enter her more deeply. Unaksed and without
                warning she sweeps us away in the round of her dance and dances on
                until we fall exhausted from her arms.

                She brings forth ever new forms: what is there, never was; what was,
                never will return. All is new, and yet forever old.

                We live within her, and are strangers to her. She speaks perpetually
                with us, and does not betray her secret. We work on her constantly,
                and yet have no power over her.

                All her effort seems bent toward individuality, and she cares nothing
                for individuals. She builds always, destroys always, and her workshop
                is beyond our reach.

                She lives in countless children, and the mother -- where is she?
                She is the sole artist, creating extreme contrast out of the simplest
                material, the greatest perfection seemingly without effort, the most
                definite clarity always veiled with a touch of softness. Each of her
                works has its own being, each of her phenomenon its separate idea,
                and yet all create a single whole.

                She plays out a drama: we know not whether she herself sees it,
                and yet she plays it for us, we who stand in the corner.

                There is everlasting life, growth, movement in her and yet she
                does not stir from her place. She transforms herself constantly and
                there is never a moment's pause in her. She has no name for respite,
                and she has set her curse upon inactivity. She is firm. Her tread is
                measured, her exceptions rare, her laws immutable.

                She thought and she thinks still, not as man, but as nature. She keeps
                to herself her own all-embracing thoughts which none may discover
                from her.

                All men are in her and she in all. With all she plays a friendly game,
                and is glad as our winnings grow. With many she plays a hidden game
                which is ended before they know it.

                Even what is most unnatural is nature.
                The one who does not see her everywhere sees her nowhere clearly.

                She loves herself, she adores herself eternally with countless eyes
                and hearts. She has scattered herself to enjoy herself. She brings forth
                ever new enjoyers, insatiable in her need to share herself.

                She delights in illusion. Whoever destroys this in himself and others
                she punishes as the sternest tyrant. Whovever follows her trustingly
                she takes to her heart like a child.

                Her children are without number. From none does she withhold all
                gifts, but upon her favourites she lavishes much and for them she
                sacrifices much. She has lent her protection to greatness.

                Her creatures are flung up out of nothingness with no hint of where
                they come from or where they are going -- they are only to run;
                she knows the course.

                She has few mainsprings to drive her, but these never wind down;
                they are always at work, always varied.

                Her drama is ever new because she creates ever new spectators.
                Life is her most beautiful invention and death her scheme for having
                more life.

                She wraps man in shadow and forever spurs him to find the light.
                She makes him a creature dependent upon the earth, sluggish and heavy,
                and then again and again she shakes him awake.

                She gives us needs because she loves movement. A miracle, how little
                she uses to achieve all this movement. Every need is a favour.
                Soon satisfied, soon roused again. When she gives us another it is
                a source of new pleasure. But soon she comes into balance.

                At every moment she prepares for the longest race and at every moment
                she is done with it.

                She is vanity itself, but not our vanity. For us she has given herself
                paramount importance.

                She lets every child practice his arts on her, every fool judge her;
                she allows thousands to pass over her dully, without seeing her.
                In all this she takes joy and from it she draws her profit.

                We obey her laws even in resisting them; we work with her even in
                working against her.

                All she gives she makes a blessing, for she begins by making it a
                need. She delays so that we long for her; she hurries so that we
                never have our fill of her.

                She has neither language nor speech, but she makes tongues and
                hearts with which to feel and speak.

                Her crown is love. Only throughh love do we come to her.
                She opens chasms between all beings, and each seeks to devour
                the other. She has set all apart to draw all together. With a few
                draughts from the cup of love she makes good a life full of toil.

                She is all. She rewards herself and punishes herself, delights
                and torments herself. She is rough and gentle, charming and
                terrifying, impotent and all-powerful. All is eternally present
                in her. She knows nothing of past and future. The present is
                eternity for her. She is kind. I praise her with all her works.
                She is wise and still. We may force no explanation from her,
                wrest no gift from her, if she does not give it freely.
                She is full of tricks, but to a good end, and it is best
                not to take note of her ruses.

                She is whole and yet always unfinished.
                As she does now she may do forever.

                To each she appears in a unique form.
                She hides amid a thousand names and terms,
                and is always the same.

                She has brought me here, she will lead me away.
                I trust myself to her. She may do as she will with me.
                She will not hate her work. It is not I who have spoken of her.
                No, what is true and what is false, all this she has spoken.
                Hers is the blame, hers the glory.

                (Goethe, Nature, a Fragment)
              • Lee A.
                Sue, Thanks for this reference. I have the lectures and will look at it again. On to other things though- I downloaded and read the article The Being of the
                Message 7 of 17 , Oct 4, 2005
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                  Sue,
                   
                  Thanks for this reference. I have the lectures and will look at it again.
                   
                  On to other things though-
                  I downloaded and read the article "The Being of the Internet". It was very provocative and insightful. Yet, the tone of the essay brought up another example (which I commented on in another post today) of a tendency I find within AP. This trend can be bothersome and can detract from its mission perhaps- namely the tendency to paint a devilish (Arhimanic or Lucifer) picture of all things modern. As an afterthought, AP (RS) would say, "modern life must unfold as it is."
                   
                   We know the central theme within Christianity and AP concerns itself with the Battle between the forces of Light (centered around the Christ) and the fallen "Angels". Yet one can come away from such an article (and from RS sometimes) with a sense of hopelessness. If the AP and its offspring movements are the best source of redirecting negative spiritual forces on the Earth,  we are in trouble. Members and adherents are few in number and certainly cannot carry the burden of this work as a counter foirce to  the sheer momentum of technology, deadening consciousness, and the destruction of the earth.
                   
                  What is often not discussed is the power of the Good and ultimately, the Divine Being within which all this is taking place. It is beyond conception that God (or even the Father, the leader of the higher Heirarchies above the Christ) would stand back and allow certain things to exist or continue beyond a certain point. It would be an insult to vast evolutionary work and the dedication of many legions of Beings and of the principle of Good. In our universe, it may seem blacken space dominates light (Suns) but in the the spiritual worlds, it's the reverse, especially the higher we go.  There may be more to this Battle than we can know at this time.
                   
                  The Internet and computer technology have many purposes- perhaps some nefarious; and some assisting the common good. There may be more diverse occult intentions (than mentioned in this article) and some of those intentions may be designed to circumvent an all out explosion of the elemental web spiders. It is hard to believe that progressive Beings of would simply stand back without a counter measure or some tactic to redirect this trend.
                   
                  Questions:
                  Surely, there is a battle going on but in some ways we find ourselves in a Fallen condition, yet again. How can we make free decisions while sinister forces work in the background while we are powerless to prevent them (through sheer ignorance and blindness.) The game is heavily stacked it would seem. Why would progressive Beings allow this "monstrous elemental web" to grow and enslave so many innocent people who are unconsciously using this technology for good- information exchange, creativity, acceleration of learning, etc.
                   
                  Yes, this medium has taken us yet another step away from a living connection with others and nature this is but a phase of evolution not the end all. If this were really a long term evolutionary problem (and beyond our normal control) very simple remedies could be created like shutting down electrical grids through natural disasters;  the development of anti-electrical smart weapons that can pulse out electrical grids (now available); or more simply boredom or to the extreme illness. Many are finding the net and all its flash more and more of the same each day. Eventually boredom and the recognition of the shallowness of the net  will dawn on people and they will find its time to pull the plug for awhile. If not that, disease and illness (childhood obesity) and neurological conditions like AD will be connected to this medium and recommendation will prevail- hopefully.
                   
                   And I am certainly not a Pollyanna- the perpetuation of nasty and abhorent content must be confronted in some manner. China may not be so wrong in censoring certain net content in principle.
                   
                  In short, though I found the essence of the essay profound and insightful, yet I found few solutions or alternative ways of viewing the full nature of the net and its offspring technology.
                   
                  Lee  


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                • LilOleMissy
                  For what it s worth, my opinion is computers and the networks created thereby may be a precursor of the spidery future time, but they are clearly not the
                  Message 8 of 17 , Oct 5, 2005
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                    For what it's worth, my opinion is computers and the networks created thereby may be a precursor of the "spidery" future time, but they are clearly not the full blown thing that Steiner describes. However, such a "battle" can never be won by materialistic means or by means undertaken by human beings alone, or by the Good Spiritual Beings alone, but only by concerted work of these two entities via Anthroposophy. We must realize Anthroposophy itself is a Living Being, evolving with the aid of mankinds' working with the Good Spiritual Beings. Fear is Ahriman's realm, while it is always the aim of the retrogressive evil spiritual beings to cast doubt upon the force of Anthroposophy.

                    Blessings,

                    Sheila

                    Lee A. wrote:
                    Sue,
                     
                    Thanks for this reference. I have the lectures and will look at it again.
                     
                    On to other things though-
                    I downloaded and read the article "The Being of the Internet". It was very provocative and insightful. Yet, the tone of the essay brought up another example (which I commented on in another post today) of a tendency I find within AP. This trend can be bothersome and can detract from its mission perhaps- namely the tendency to paint a devilish (Arhimanic or Lucifer) picture of all things modern. As an afterthought, AP (RS) would say, "modern life must unfold as it is."
                     
                     We know the central theme within Christianity and AP concerns itself with the Battle between the forces of Light (centered around the Christ) and the fallen "Angels". Yet one can come away from such an article (and from RS sometimes) with a sense of hopelessness. If the AP and its offspring movements are the best source of redirecting negative spiritual forces on the Earth,  we are in trouble. Members and adherents are few in number and certainly cannot carry the burden of this work as a counter foirce to  the sheer momentum of technology, deadening consciousness, and the destruction of the earth.
                     
                    What is often not discussed is the power of the Good and ultimately, the Divine Being within which all this is taking place. It is beyond conception that God (or even the Father, the leader of the higher Heirarchies above the Christ) would stand back and allow certain things to exist or continue beyond a certain point. It would be an insult to vast evolutionary work and the dedication of many legions of Beings and of the principle of Good. In our universe, it may seem blacken space dominates light (Suns) but in the the spiritual worlds, it's the reverse, especially the higher we go.  There may be more to this Battle than we can know at this time.
                     
                    The Internet and computer technology have many purposes- perhaps some nefarious; and some assisting the common good. There may be more diverse occult intentions (than mentioned in this article) and some of those intentions may be designed to circumvent an all out explosion of the elemental web spiders. It is hard to believe that progressive Beings of would simply stand back without a counter measure or some tactic to redirect this trend.
                     
                    Questions:
                    Surely, there is a battle going on but in some ways we find ourselves in a Fallen condition, yet again. How can we make free decisions while sinister forces work in the background while we are powerless to prevent them (through sheer ignorance and blindness.) The game is heavily stacked it would seem. Why would progressive Beings allow this "monstrous elemental web" to grow and enslave so many innocent people who are unconsciously using this technology for good- information exchange, creativity, acceleration of learning, etc.
                     
                    Yes, this medium has taken us yet another step away from a living connection with others and nature this is but a phase of evolution not the end all. If this were really a long term evolutionary problem (and beyond our normal control) very simple remedies could be created like shutting down electrical grids through natural disasters;  the development of anti-electrical smart weapons that can pulse out electrical grids (now available); or more simply boredom or to the extreme illness. Many are finding the net and all its flash more and more of the same each day. Eventually boredom and the recognition of the shallowness of the net  will dawn on people and they will find its time to pull the plug for awhile. If not that, disease and illness (childhood obesity) and neurological conditions like AD will be connected to this medium and recommendation will prevail- hopefully.
                     
                     And I am certainly not a Pollyanna- the perpetuation of nasty and abhorent content must be confronted in some manner. China may not be so wrong in censoring certain net content in principle.
                     
                    In short, though I found the essence of the essay profound and insightful, yet I found few solutions or alternative ways of viewing the full nature of the net and its offspring technology.
                     
                    Lee  

                  • Lee A.
                    LilOleMissy wrote: For what it s worth, my opinion is computers and the networks created thereby may be a precursor of the
                    Message 9 of 17 , Oct 5, 2005
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                      LilOleMissy <lilolemissy@...> wrote:

                      For what it's worth, my opinion is computers and the networks created thereby may be a precursor of the "spidery" future time, but they are clearly not the full blown thing that Steiner describes. However, such a "battle" can never be won by materialistic means or by means undertaken by human beings alone, or by the Good Spiritual Beings alone, but only by concerted work of these two entities via Anthroposophy. We must realize Anthroposophy itself is a Living Being, evolving with the aid of mankinds' working with the Good Spiritual Beings. Fear is Ahriman's realm, while it is always the aim of the retrogressive evil spiritual beings to cast doubt upon the force of Anthroposophy.

                      Blessings,

                      Sheila

                      By these two Beings, I presume you mean Christ and Michael and/or Anthroposophia? And what evidence is there now that the battle is moving away from purely destructive materialism and towards the goals and ideals of Anthroposophia.

                       

                      Lee

                       

                       


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                    • LilOleMissy
                      Lee A. wrote: LilOleMissy wrote: For what it s worth, my opinion is computers and the networks created thereby may be a precursor
                      Message 10 of 17 , Oct 5, 2005
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                        Lee A. wrote:


                        LilOleMissy <lilolemissy@...> wrote:

                        For what it's worth, my opinion is computers and the networks created thereby may be a precursor of the "spidery" future time, but they are clearly not the full blown thing that Steiner describes. However, such a "battle" can never be won by materialistic means or by means undertaken by human beings alone, or by the Good Spiritual Beings alone, but only by concerted work of these two entities via Anthroposophy. We must realize Anthroposophy itself is a Living Being, evolving with the aid of mankinds' working with the Good Spiritual Beings. Fear is Ahriman's realm, while it is always the aim of the retrogressive evil spiritual beings to cast doubt upon the force of Anthroposophy.

                        Blessings,

                        Sheila

                        By these two Beings, I presume you mean Christ and Michael and/or Anthroposophia? And what evidence is there now that the battle is moving away from purely destructive materialism and towards the goals and ideals of Anthroposophia.

                         

                        Lee

                        As a friend mentioned to me once when she was speaking with a CC Priest regarding a Spiritual concept about which she was greatly confused, she was kindly advised to study Anthroposophy first in order to gain a thorough knowledge of the subject.

                        Kindly,

                        Sheila



                      • Sue
                        Anne, Sorry it has taken me so long to reply to your question regarding Gothe s hymn .. You are correct, this is the Hymn to Nature. Thank you for typing it
                        Message 11 of 17 , Oct 6, 2005
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                          Anne,

                          Sorry it has taken me so long to reply to your question regarding Gothe's hymn ..

                          You are correct, this is the Hymn to Nature. Thank you for typing it up... big job.

                          With regard to the lecture of Steiners from " Materialism and the Task of Anthroposophy "
                          lecture 14 .. I have now placed it in the files.

                          peace and love ...

                          Sue.



                          ___________________________________________________________
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                          snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com
                        • Sue
                          At the turning point of time, The Spirit-light of the World Entered the stream of Earthly Evolution. Darkness of Night Had held its sway; Day-radiant Light
                          Message 12 of 17 , Oct 6, 2005
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                            At the turning point of time,
                            The Spirit-light of the World
                            Entered the stream of Earthly Evolution.
                            Darkness of Night
                            Had held its sway;
                            Day-radiant Light
                            Poured into the souls of men:
                            Light that gave warmth
                            To simple shepherds' hearts,
                            Light that enlightened
                            The wise heads of kings.

                            O Light Divine!
                            O Sun of Christ!
                            Warm Thou our hearts,
                            That good may become
                            What from our hearts we would found
                            And from our heads direct
                            With single purpose.




                            ___________________________________________________________
                            How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday
                            snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com



                            Post to steiner@egroups.comSearch the archives of the group at:
                            http://www.esotericlinks.com/egroupsearch.html

                            Recommended books by Rudolf Steiner at:
                            http://www.esotericlinks.com/steinerbooks.html

                            ommended books by Rudolf Steiner at:
                            http://www.esotericlinks.com/steinerbooks.html


                            Yahoo! Groups Links











                            Post to steiner@egroups.comSearch the archives of the group at:
                            http://www.esotericlinks.com/egroupsearch.html

                            Recommended books by Rudolf Steiner at:
                            http://www.esotericlinks.com/steinerbooks.html

                            ommended books by Rudolf Steiner at:
                            http://www.esotericlinks.com/steinerbooks.html


                            Yahoo! Groups Links










                            Post to steiner@egroups.comSearch the archives of the group at:
                            http://www.esotericlinks.com/egroupsearch.html

                            Recommended books by Rudolf Steiner at:
                            http://www.esotericlinks.com/steinerbooks.html

                            ommended books by Rudolf Steiner at:
                            http://www.esotericlinks.com/steinerbooks.html


                            Yahoo! Groups Links
                          • Sue
                            At the turning point of time, The Spirit-light of the World Entered the stream of Earthly Evolution. Darkness of Night Had held its sway; Day-radiant Light
                            Message 13 of 17 , Oct 6, 2005
                            • 0 Attachment
                              At the turning point of time,
                              The Spirit-light of the World
                              Entered the stream of Earthly Evolution.
                              Darkness of Night
                              Had held its sway;
                              Day-radiant Light
                              Poured into the souls of men:
                              Light that gave warmth
                              To simple shepherds' hearts,
                              Light that enlightened
                              The wise heads of kings.

                              O Light Divine!
                              O Sun of Christ!
                              Warm Thou our hearts,
                              That good may become
                              What from our hearts we would found
                              And from our heads direct
                              With single purpose.




                              ___________________________________________________________
                              How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday
                              snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com



                              Post to steiner@egroups.comSearch the archives of the group at:
                              http://www.esotericlinks.com/egroupsearch.html

                              Recommended books by Rudolf Steiner at:
                              http://www.esotericlinks.com/steinerbooks.html

                              ommended books by Rudolf Steiner at:
                              http://www.esotericlinks.com/steinerbooks.html


                              Yahoo! Groups Links











                              Post to steiner@egroups.comSearch the archives of the group at:
                              http://www.esotericlinks.com/egroupsearch.html

                              Recommended books by Rudolf Steiner at:
                              http://www.esotericlinks.com/steinerbooks.html

                              ommended books by Rudolf Steiner at:
                              http://www.esotericlinks.com/steinerbooks.html


                              Yahoo! Groups Links
                            • Sue
                              At the turning point of time, The Spirit-light of the World Entered the stream of Earthly Evolution. Darkness of Night Had held its sway; Day-radiant Light
                              Message 14 of 17 , Oct 6, 2005
                              • 0 Attachment
                                At the turning point of time,
                                The Spirit-light of the World
                                Entered the stream of Earthly Evolution.
                                Darkness of Night
                                Had held its sway;
                                Day-radiant Light
                                Poured into the souls of men:
                                Light that gave warmth
                                To simple shepherds' hearts,
                                Light that enlightened
                                The wise heads of kings.

                                O Light Divine!
                                O Sun of Christ!
                                Warm Thou our hearts,
                                That good may become
                                What from our hearts we would found
                                And from our heads direct
                                With single purpose.




                                ___________________________________________________________
                                How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday
                                snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com



                                Post to steiner@egroups.comSearch the archives of the group at:
                                http://www.esotericlinks.com/egroupsearch.html

                                Recommended books by Rudolf Steiner at:
                                http://www.esotericlinks.com/steinerbooks.html

                                ommended books by Rudolf Steiner at:
                                http://www.esotericlinks.com/steinerbooks.html


                                Yahoo! Groups Links
                              • Sue
                                At the turning point of time, The Spirit-light of the World Entered the stream of Earthly Evolution. Darkness of Night Had held its sway; Day-radiant Light
                                Message 15 of 17 , Oct 6, 2005
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  At the turning point of time,
                                  The Spirit-light of the World
                                  Entered the stream of Earthly Evolution.
                                  Darkness of Night
                                  Had held its sway;
                                  Day-radiant Light
                                  Poured into the souls of men:
                                  Light that gave warmth
                                  To simple shepherds' hearts,
                                  Light that enlightened
                                  The wise heads of kings.

                                  O Light Divine!
                                  O Sun of Christ!
                                  Warm Thou our hearts,
                                  That good may become
                                  What from our hearts we would found
                                  And from our heads direct
                                  With single purpose.




                                  ___________________________________________________________
                                  How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday
                                  snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com
                                • DoctorStarman@aol.com
                                  *******I agree with your assessment, Lee. I m afraid too many anthroposophists are simply old fuddy-duddies, knee-jerk reacting negatively against anything and
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Oct 30, 2005
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                                    *******I agree with your assessment, Lee. I'm afraid too many anthroposophists are simply old fuddy-duddies, knee-jerk reacting negatively against anything and everything new. I have found that Steiner foresaw the internet, and in fact was trying to work out something like it to instantly transmit his latest findings at the Goetheanum to all the members. Any technology is neutral in itself but can be put to an Ahrimanic or a Michaelic use.
                                     
                                       Of course it's only information it transmits, not real human contact; but the same can be said of books! We have to re-enliven anything transmitted through such a deadening medium. And in fact, there were many people protesting the printing press, calling printing the Devil's Art, etc. Plus ca change....
                                     
                                    -Starman
                                     
                                     
                                    I downloaded and read the article "The Being of the Internet". It was very provocative and insightful. Yet, the tone of the essay brought up another example (which I commented on in another post today) of a tendency I find within AP. This trend can be bothersome and can detract from its mission perhaps- namely the tendency to paint a devilish (Arhimanic or Lucifer) picture of all things modern. As an afterthought, AP (RS) would say, "modern life must unfold as it is."
                                     
                                     We know the central theme within Christianity and AP concerns itself with the Battle between the forces of Light (centered around the Christ) and the fallen "Angels". Yet one can come away from such an article (and from RS sometimes) with a sense of hopelessness. If the AP and its offspring movements are the best source of redirecting negative spiritual forces on the Earth,  we are in trouble. Members and adherents are few in number and certainly cannot carry the burden of this work as a counter foirce to  the sheer momentum of technology, deadening consciousness, and the destruction of the earth.
                                     
                                    What is often not discussed is the power of the Good and ultimately, the Divine Being within which all this is taking place. It is beyond conception that God (or even the Father, the leader of the higher Heirarchies above the Christ) would stand back and allow certain things to exist or continue beyond a certain point. It would be an insult to vast evolutionary work and the dedication of many legions of Beings and of the principle of Good. In our universe, it may seem blacken space dominates light (Suns) but in the the spiritual worlds, it's the reverse, especially the higher we go.  There may be more to this Battle than we can know at this time.
                                     
                                    The Internet and computer technology have many purposes- perhaps some nefarious; and some assisting the common good. There may be more diverse occult intentions (than mentioned in this article) and some of those intentions may be designed to circumvent an all out explosion of the elemental web spiders. It is hard to believe that progressive Beings of would simply stand back without a counter measure or some tactic to redirect this trend.
                                     
                                    Questions:
                                    Surely, there is a battle going on but in some ways we find ourselves in a Fallen condition, yet again. How can we make free decisions while sinister forces work in the background while we are powerless to prevent them (through sheer ignorance and blindness.) The game is heavily stacked it would seem. Why would progressive Beings allow this "monstrous elemental web" to grow and enslave so many innocent people who are unconsciously using this technology for good- information exchange, creativity, acceleration of learning, etc.
                                     
                                    Yes, this medium has taken us yet another step away from a living connection with others and nature this is but a phase of evolution not the end all. If this were really a long term evolutionary problem (and beyond our normal control) very simple remedies could be created like shutting down electrical grids through natural disasters;  the development of anti-electrical smart weapons that can pulse out electrical grids (now available); or more simply boredom or to the extreme illness. Many are finding the net and all its flash more and more of the same each day. Eventually boredom and the recognition of the shallowness of the net  will dawn on people and they will find its time to pull the plug for awhile. If not that, disease and illness (childhood obesity) and neurological conditions like AD will be connected to this medium and recommendation will prevail- hopefully.
                                     
                                     And I am certainly not a Pollyanna- the perpetuation of nasty and abhorent content must be confronted in some manner. China may not be so wrong in censoring certain net content in principle.
                                     
                                    In short, though I found the essence of the essay profound and insightful, yet I found few solutions or alternative ways of viewing the full nature of the net and its offspring technology.
                                     
                                    Lee  
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