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Re: [steiner] Spiders, etc

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  • Natalie Park
    Thanks for replies on this. I will check your references as time allows, much appreciated. I recall reading something... so long ago.. As I remember it went
    Message 1 of 14 , Jul 5, 2005
      Thanks for replies on this.
      I will check your references as time allows, much appreciated.
      I recall reading something... so long ago.. As I remember it went something
      like: our ugh/shudder response to a spider is accurate because their
      form/movement is/was an unwanted cast off aspect of human sexuality in
      earlier period of evolution. I'm thinking Lemurian, but not sure.

      What I recall about the dolphin one, is his suggestion that they were souls
      who fell behind at time of last planetary evolution, and now trapped in this
      animal form, however have the opportunity/ability to catch up down the
      track. Therefore different to the other animals, group soul, etc.

      The eggs one: from my memory it may have been in something where he also
      spoke about peanuts not being a real nut, ie "the devil's nut". I think he
      suggested that eggs are to eat later but not for children under 7. Methinks
      it could have been in either anthroposophical medicine or education writing
      or lecture.

      Thanks again for helpful responses, feels like a treasure hunt !
      Cheers,
      Natalie

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "LilOleMissy@..." <lilolemissy@...>
      To: <steiner@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 4:46 PM
      Subject: Re: [steiner] Spiders, etc


      >I wonder if Steiner mentioned spiders in his "Man as Symphony of the
      > Creative Word" [12 lectures given at Dornach from 19th October to 11th
      > November, 1923? Natalie, something about your words triggered "dim"
      > recollections but no definitive sources, and it's possible he might
      > have mentioned it in his "Man in the Light of Occultism, Theosophy and
      > Philosophy", 10 lectures in Christiania (Oslo), June, 1912. Hopefully,
      > these works might trigger the memory of those better acquainted with
      > this than I.
      >
      > Cheers,
      >
      > Sheila
      >
      > --This message contains 100% recycled electrons.
      > On Jul 3, 2005, at 11:07 PM, Mathew Morrell wrote:
      >
      > **Thanks Natalie for your factoid on spiders. To me, spiders are
      > strange and mysterious creatures. Even compared to insects they live
      > extremely passive lives. Most of their time is spent in stillness.
      > Instead of seeking their pray they spin a web and wait. Their minds
      > rest in a state of pure watchfulness, sensitive to vibrations
      > traveling through their yarn. A fly lands. The spider pounces,
      > angrily and with wrath. Because of their passivity they're able to
      > FEEL the life force (the Etheric Realm) to an impressive degree. The
      > Etheric Plane communicates to the spider, as if in a primal language,
      > through her web. Each vibration is significant, like individual
      > words. There's a vibration for the wind. A throbbing vibration for
      > the afternoon sun. A vibration of a fly caught in her trap. Is the
      > spider and her web an example of the higher worlds of knowledge
      > manifesting itself in nature?
      >
      >
      > **Quote of the day: Rudolph Steiner, KNOWLEDGE OF THE HIGHER WORLDS
      > AND ITS ATTAINMENT.
      >
      > "Harshness scares away the soul-pictures that should open the eye of
      > the soul; gentleness clears the obstacles away and unseals the inner
      > organs."
      >
      >
      > ** Yes I believe in Atlantis. Why not? Why couldn't past
      > civilizations be destroyed and forgotten by time? Hell, the Roman
      > Empire was almost forgotten. Travelers didn't know who or what
      > created the flattened, dilapidated ruins scattered across the Greek
      > and Roman countryside. Sheep herders would graze their sheep along
      > now-famous ruins, without the least bit clue of where these great
      > carved stones came from. In fact, the mass of people in the Dark
      > Ages believed some of the larger ruins, because of their
      > architectural superiority, were the work of demons. Dead Men Tell No
      > Tales, as Motorhead frontman, Lemmy Killmaster, says.
      >
      >
      > **Last week's trivia question. What heavy metal song begins with the
      > following passage?
      >
      > "Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! For the devil
      > is come down unto you, having great wrath. Because he knoweth that he
      > hath but a short time." [REV. 12:12]
      >
      > "Number of the Beast," by Iron Maiden. Copyright 1982.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Post to steiner@egroups.comSearch the archives of the group at:
      > http://www.esotericlinks.com/egroupsearch.html
      >
      > Recommended books by Rudolf Steiner at:
      > http://www.esotericlinks.com/steinerbooks.html
      >
      > ommended books by Rudolf Steiner at:
      > http://www.esotericlinks.com/steinerbooks.html
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Post to steiner@egroups.comSearch the archives of the group at:
      > http://www.esotericlinks.com/egroupsearch.html
      >
      > Recommended books by Rudolf Steiner at:
      > http://www.esotericlinks.com/steinerbooks.html
      >
      > ommended books by Rudolf Steiner at:
      > http://www.esotericlinks.com/steinerbooks.html
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • DoctorStarman@aol.com
      natalie123@ozemail.com.au writes: ... *******That would make sense, as the Lemurian time was the Age of Scorpio---- the Dragon, Scorpion (arachnid),
      Message 2 of 14 , Jul 15, 2005
        natalie123@... writes:

        I will check your references as time allows, much appreciated.
        I recall reading something... so long ago.. As I remember it went something
        like: our ugh/shudder response to a spider is accurate because their
        form/movement is/was an unwanted cast off aspect of human sexuality in
        earlier period of evolution. I'm thinking Lemurian, but not sure.



        *******That would make sense, as the Lemurian time was the Age of Scorpio---- the Dragon, Scorpion (arachnid), reptile/lizard. It's when we first became sexual beings, and the two sexes formed with the separating of the Moon and the Earth.   -starman


      • Mr Chips
        - I think this is a good point --- you believe . So then, how do others know; that have had past memories of there lives, and have not studied Steiner ? Yes
        Message 3 of 14 , Jul 18, 2005
          - I think this is a good point --- you "believe".

          So then, how do others know; that have had past memories of there
          lives, and have not studied Steiner ?

          Yes I believe in Atlantis,but I strongly accept that I dont know.

          Maybe Steiners methods are able to be improved on --- simplified.

          Who Knows ?

          God Bless and Love to ALL
          >
          > ** Yes I believe in Atlantis. Why not? Why couldn't past
          > civilizations be destroyed and forgotten by time? Hell, the Roman
          > Empire was almost forgotten. Travelers didn't know who or what
          > created the flattened, dilapidated ruins scattered across the Greek
          > and Roman countryside. Sheep herders would graze their sheep along
          > now-famous ruins, without the least bit clue of where these great
          > carved stones came from. In fact, the mass of people in the Dark
          > Ages believed some of the larger ruins, because of their
          > architectural superiority, were the work of demons. Dead Men Tell
          No
          > Tales, as Motorhead frontman, Lemmy Killmaster, says.
          >
          >
          > **Last week's trivia question. What heavy metal song begins with
          the
          > following passage?
          >
          > "Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! For the devil
          > is come down unto you, having great wrath. Because he knoweth that
          he
          > hath but a short time." [REV. 12:12]
          >
          > "Number of the Beast," by Iron Maiden. Copyright 1982.
        • deo1212
          I too have had rememberances of what might be termed past lives...but since the mind is creative, how do I know that I just made it up? I have had other
          Message 4 of 14 , Jul 21, 2005
            I too have had rememberances of what might be termed past lives...but
            since the mind is creative, how do I know that I just made it up? I
            have had other experiences too which indicate I have visited places
            and had experiences with beings.......real or not? Here is my
            thoughts on all of it, what difference does it make? It is a
            distraction to revealing the divinity we are. What is real....only
            what I decide is real. If I decide all is illusion, then the
            subjective experience of 'God' takes place.....and changes and
            evolves......eternally.


            --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "Mr Chips"
            <whatsthepathwhereisit@y...> wrote:
            > - I think this is a good point --- you "believe".
            >
            > So then, how do others know; that have had past memories of there
            > lives, and have not studied Steiner ?
            >
            > Yes I believe in Atlantis,but I strongly accept that I dont know.
            >
            > Maybe Steiners methods are able to be improved on --- simplified.
            >
            > Who Knows ?
            >
            > God Bless and Love to ALL
            > >
            > > ** Yes I believe in Atlantis. Why not? Why couldn't past
            > > civilizations be destroyed and forgotten by time? Hell, the
            Roman
            > > Empire was almost forgotten. Travelers didn't know who or what
            > > created the flattened, dilapidated ruins scattered across the
            Greek
            > > and Roman countryside. Sheep herders would graze their sheep
            along
            > > now-famous ruins, without the least bit clue of where these great
            > > carved stones came from. In fact, the mass of people in the Dark
            > > Ages believed some of the larger ruins, because of their
            > > architectural superiority, were the work of demons. Dead Men
            Tell
            > No
            > > Tales, as Motorhead frontman, Lemmy Killmaster, says.
            > >
            > >
            > > **Last week's trivia question. What heavy metal song begins with
            > the
            > > following passage?
            > >
            > > "Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! For the
            devil
            > > is come down unto you, having great wrath. Because he knoweth
            that
            > he
            > > hath but a short time." [REV. 12:12]
            > >
            > > "Number of the Beast," by Iron Maiden. Copyright 1982.
          • DoctorStarman@aol.com
            In a message dated 7/18/2005 7:55:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, ... ******* Many people have memories of other lives and many other psychic experiences without
            Message 5 of 14 , Jul 22, 2005
              In a message dated 7/18/2005 7:55:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, whatsthepathwhereisit@... writes:


              - I think this is a good point ---  you "believe".

              So then, how do others know; that have had past memories of there
              lives, and have not studied Steiner ?

              Yes I believe in Atlantis,but I strongly accept that I dont know.

              Maybe Steiners methods are able to be improved on --- simplified.

              Who Knows ?

              God Bless and Love to ALL
              >
              >** Yes I believe in Atlantis.  Why not?  Why couldn't past
              >civilizations be destroyed and forgotten by time?  Hell, the Roman
              >Empire was almost forgotten.  Travelers didn't know who or what
              >created the flattened, dilapidated ruins scattered across the Greek
              >and Roman countryside.



              ******* Many people have memories of other lives and many other psychic experiences without studying spiritual science, because they "studied" in former lives and developed the abilities they're born with then. Naturally, unless one has absolutely no will or ambition or desire to improve oneself, the point is not to rest content with whatever you happen to be born with, but to learn how to continue developing. That's the use of spiritual science, even for people born psychic. And the use of this list is for people to share what they know from spiritual science. I can tell you that it has nothing to do with belief, the same a s any other science, but with direct knowledge. You can obtain memories of former lives and this process will lead you back to lives in Atlantis and being able to read the Akashic Records where such history is all recorded.
              -starman

              http://www.DrStarman.com
            • DoctorStarman@aol.com
              In a message dated 7/21/2005 4:49:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... *******Thge problem with that subjectivism is that you then renounce all possibility of
              Message 6 of 14 , Jul 22, 2005
                In a message dated 7/21/2005 4:49:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, deo1212@... writes:

                I too have had rememberances of what might be termed past lives...but
                since the mind is creative, how do I know that I just made it up? I
                have had other experiences too which indicate I have visited places
                and had experiences with beings.......real or not? Here is my
                thoughts on all of it, what difference does it make? It is a
                distraction to revealing the divinity we are. What is real....only
                what I decide is real.


                *******Thge problem with that subjectivism is that you then renounce all possibility of objective knowledge that's of any use to anyone else.

                   If you want to do more than just see an image of yourself as a Druid priest, let's say, and instead access once again the knowledge which a Druid initiation conferred upon you in that life as one, so as to know how the mistletoe plant might be used curatively, then the disciplining of your imaginative faculties so as to discriminate between truth and fantasy is all-important.

                   And no one need surrender the task as too difficult: obviously, if you think you are seeing images from a lifetime in colonial America and there are kangaroos jumping about, it's not a trustworthy image but rather a fantasy. Strictly suppressing the fantasy life is an important part of the spiritual path, so that you can tell what's real. If you desire actual answers to the qurestion of how to determine what's real or not, there's a lot to be said. If you want to merely ask it as a rhetorical question, meaning what you really want to do is imply it's unanswerable, then obviously nothing from Steiner would be of interest to you because he did not share your opinion.

                   Also, the attitude of dismissing all thought questions because the 'important thing' is just to 'find the divinity within' is a faukt that Steiner spoke about many times in the Theosophists he lectured to. He said it was caused by a hidden laziness in thinking, a desire to shirk the hard work of thinking. He found it absurd to think that understanding a watch requires hard thinking while understanding God supposedly requires none.

                -starman


                http://www.DrStarman.com
              • daniel young
                Yes I agree,but it generally has to start with belief,and that is what I am saying........or more better put; there is obviously a need to look for all avenues
                Message 7 of 14 , Jul 22, 2005
                  Yes I agree,but it generally has to start with belief,and that is what I am saying........or more better put; there is obviously a need to look for all avenues of knowledge;combined even; as the spirit mind is far from aware of the real reality,from which it perceives the wolrd through the ego mind.
                   
                  So yes I agree this is a path of Truth, and so do I believe that there are other paths of Truth ---- and I have a sneaky feeling that you know some of your belief also......best wishes to all of you .
                   
                  I just hope people keep their minds open ,for other paths,which may seem a destraction......which they aren't.
                   
                  God Bless

                  DoctorStarman@... wrote:
                  In a message dated 7/18/2005 7:55:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, whatsthepathwhereisit@... writes:


                  - I think this is a good point ---  you "believe".

                  So then, how do others know; that have had past memories of there
                  lives, and have not studied Steiner ?

                  Yes I believe in Atlantis,but I strongly accept that I dont know.

                  Maybe Steiners methods are able to be improved on --- simplified.

                  Who Knows ?

                  God Bless and Love to ALL
                  >
                  >** Yes I believe in Atlantis.  Why not?  Why couldn't past
                  >civilizations be destroyed and forgotten by time?  Hell, the Roman
                  >Empire was almost forgotten.  Travelers didn't know who or what
                  >created the flattened, dilapidated ruins scattered across the Greek
                  >and Roman countryside.



                  ******* Many people have memories of other lives and many other psychic experiences without studying spiritual science, because they "studied" in former lives and developed the abilities they're born with then. Naturally, unless one has absolutely no will or ambition or desire to improve oneself, the point is not to rest content with whatever you happen to be born with, but to learn how to continue developing. That's the use of spiritual science, even for people born psychic. And the use of this list is for people to share what they know from spiritual science. I can tell you that it has nothing to do with belief, the same a s any other science, but with direct knowledge. You can obtain memories of former lives and this process will lead you back to lives in Atlantis and being able to read the Akashic Records where such history is all recorded.
                  -starman

                  http://www.DrStarman.com


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                • deo1212
                  Oh but I didn t say there was no thinking to realizing God within.... he, he. To experience the divinity within is a subjective experience....led there by
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jul 22, 2005
                    Oh but I didn't say there was no thinking to realizing God within....
                    he, he. To experience the divinity within is a subjective
                    experience....led there by "thinking"....with a final leap of faith.

                    All of my past life experiences, plus "other worldy" experiences did
                    nothing to assist me. They didn't heal me, they didn't open doors
                    except to more and more bizarre experiences.....I got way out on a
                    limb.....past JZ Knight's stuff mentioned in another post earlier. I
                    shudder thinking where I was at one time in my beliefs.

                    Anyway, I agree, if I want to pick up knowledge from any of those
                    past lives, this is a good way to do it, whether it's a past life or
                    not doesn't even matter. However, my desire is to integrate the world
                    of form with that of Divine Peace....to experience all that I am.

                    Thank you for sharing so freely with me DrStarman. You are correct, I
                    am not a student of Steiner's but I am in admiration of all he has
                    contributed, the schools and this forum.

                    Blessings,
                    deo


                    --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, DoctorStarman@a... wrote:
                    > In a message dated 7/21/2005 4:49:34 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                    > deo1212@y... writes:
                    >
                    > > I too have had rememberances of what might be termed past
                    lives...but
                    > > since the mind is creative, how do I know that I just made it up?
                    I
                    > > have had other experiences too which indicate I have visited
                    places
                    > > and had experiences with beings.......real or not? Here is my
                    > > thoughts on all of it, what difference does it make? It is a
                    > > distraction to revealing the divinity we are. What is
                    real....only
                    > > what I decide is real.
                    >
                    > *******Thge problem with that subjectivism is that you then
                    renounce all
                    > possibility of objective knowledge that's of any use to anyone
                    else.
                    >
                    > If you want to do more than just see an image of yourself as a
                    Druid
                    > priest, let's say, and instead access once again the knowledge
                    which a Druid
                    > initiation conferred upon you in that life as one, so as to know
                    how the mistletoe
                    > plant might be used curatively, then the disciplining of your
                    imaginative
                    > faculties so as to discriminate between truth and fantasy is all-
                    important.
                    >
                    > And no one need surrender the task as too difficult: obviously,
                    if you th
                    > ink you are seeing images from a lifetime in colonial America and
                    there are
                    > kangaroos jumping about, it's not a trustworthy image but rather a
                    fantasy.
                    > Strictly suppressing the fantasy life is an important part of the
                    spiritual path,
                    > so that you can tell what's real. If you desire actual answers to
                    the qurestion
                    > of how to determine what's real or not, there's a lot to be said.
                    If you want
                    > to merely ask it as a rhetorical question, meaning what you really
                    want to do
                    > is imply it's unanswerable, then obviously nothing from Steiner
                    would be of
                    > interest to you because he did not share your opinion.
                    >
                    > Also, the attitude of dismissing all thought questions because
                    the
                    > 'important thing' is just to 'find the divinity within' is a faukt
                    that Steiner spoke
                    > about many times in the Theosophists he lectured to. He said it was
                    caused by
                    > a hidden laziness in thinking, a desire to shirk the hard work of
                    thinking.
                    > He found it absurd to think that understanding a watch requires
                    hard thinking
                    > while understanding God supposedly requires none.
                    >
                    > -starman
                    >
                    >
                    > http://www.DrStarman.com
                  • DoctorStarman@aol.com
                    ... *******I m not at all sure what you re trying to say, but no, the path of spirit-science does not start with belief but with experience, with things you
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jul 22, 2005
                      whatsthepathwhereisit@... writes:
                      Yes I agree,but it generally has to start with belief,and that is what I am saying........or more better put; there is obviously a need to look for all avenues of knowledge;combined even; as the spirit mind is far from aware of the real reality,from which it perceives the wolrd through the ego mind.
                      So yes I agree this is a path of Truth, and so do I believe that there are other paths of Truth ---- and I have a sneaky feeling that you know some of your belief also......best wishes to all of you .
                      I just hope people keep their minds open ,for other paths,which may seem a destraction......which they aren't.




                      *******I'm not at all sure what you're trying to say, but no, the path of spirit-science does not start with belief but with experience, with things you can observe and know directly. The terms you use borrowed from the old discredited Eastern religions, like "ego mind", have no relevence to it, or any other science for that matter.
                          Perhaps you should acquaint yourself with Steiner and anthroposophy---- there are many people here who could answer any questions you may have about it. But if you're just coming here to fish for converts to your belief-system, I doubt you're in the right place.
                      -starman


                      >
                      >** Yes I believe in Atlantis.  Why not?  Why couldn't past
                      >civilizations be destroyed and forgotten by time? 



                      whatsthepathwhereisit@... writes:

                      - I think this is a good point ---  you "believe".
                      So then, how do others know; that have had past memories of there
                      lives, and have not studied Steiner ?
                      Yes I believe in Atlantis,but I strongly accept that I dont know.
                      Maybe Steiners methods are able to be improved on --- simplified.


                      ******* Many people have memories of other lives and many other psychic experiences without studying spiritual science, because they "studied" in former lives and developed the abilities they're born with then. Naturally, unless one has absolutely no will or ambition or desire to improve oneself, the point is not to rest content with whatever you happen to be born with, but to learn how to continue developing. That's the use of spiritual science, even for people born psychic. And the use of this list is for people to share what they know from spiritual science. I can tell you that it has nothing to do with belief, the same a s any other science, but with direct knowledge. You can obtain memories of former lives and this process will lead you back to lives in Atlantis and being able to read the Akashic Records where such history is all recorded.
                      -starman



                      www.DrStarman.com
                    • Daniel young
                      This is what i am trying to say,as there are beliefs that are far from just a belief also;but that said I do Know that if I used his /mine mind (the human
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jul 23, 2005
                        This is what i am trying to say,as there are beliefs that are far
                        from just a belief also;but that said I do "Know" that if I used
                        his /mine mind (the human mind) in a sceptical way that I could pull
                        apart all of yours and my beliefs,and even the parts that appear to
                        be confirmed.



                        or more better put; there is obviously a need to look for all
                        > > avenues of knowledge;



                        > *******I'm not at all sure what you're trying to say, but no, the
                        path of
                        > spirit-science does not start with belief but with experience, with
                        things you
                        > can observe and know directly. The terms you use borrowed from the
                        old
                        > discredited Eastern religions, like "ego mind", have no relevence
                        to it, or any other
                        > science for that matter.
                        > Perhaps you should acquaint yourself with Steiner and
                        anthroposophy----
                        > there are many people here who could answer any questions you may
                        have about
                        > it. But if you're just coming here to fish for converts to your
                        belief-system, I
                        > doubt you're in the right place.
                        > -starman
                        >
                        >
                        > > >
                        > > >** Yes I believe in Atlantis. Why not? Why couldn't past
                        > > >civilizations be destroyed and forgotten by time?
                        >
                        >
                        > > >> whatsthepathwhereisit@y... writes:>>>
                        > >>> - I think this is a good point --- you "believe".
                        > >>> So then, how do others know; that have had past memories of
                        there
                        > >>> lives, and have not studied Steiner ?
                        > >>> Yes I believe in Atlantis,but I strongly accept that I dont
                        know.
                        > >>> Maybe Steiners methods are able to be improved on ---
                        simplified.
                        > >>>
                        > >>>
                        > >> ******* Many people have memories of other lives and many other
                        psychic
                        > >> experiences without studying spiritual science, because
                        they "studied" in
                        > >> former lives and developed the abilities they're born with then.
                        Naturally,
                        > >> unless one has absolutely no will or ambition or desire to
                        improve oneself, the
                        > >> point is not to rest content with whatever you happen to be born
                        with, but to
                        > >> learn how to continue developing. That's the use of spiritual
                        science, even
                        > >> for people born psychic. And the use of this list is for people
                        to share
                        > >> what they know from spiritual science. I can tell you that it
                        has nothing to
                        > >> do with belief, the same a s any other science, but with direct
                        knowledge.
                        > >> You can obtain memories of former lives and this process will
                        lead you back to
                        > >> lives in Atlantis and being able to read the Akashic Records
                        where such
                        > >> history is all recorded.
                        > >> -starman
                        >
                        >
                        > www.DrStarman.com
                      • DoctorStarman@aol.com
                        *******Perhaps English is not your native language. For whatever reason, I can t make head or tail out of what you write here. But if you want to know about
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jul 23, 2005
                          *******Perhaps English is not your native language. For whatever reason, I can't make head or tail out of what you write here. But if you want to know about Steiner and spiritual science, that's what this list is for. Thus far I haven't seen any sign you're at all acquainted with him or it. There are lots of good people here to talk to about it, if that's your interest.
                          -starman

                          whatsthepathwhereisit@... writes:
                          This is what i am trying to say,as there are beliefs that are far
                          from just a belief also;but that said I do "Know" that if I used
                          his /mine  mind (the human mind) in a sceptical way that I could pull
                          apart all of yours and my beliefs,and even the parts that appear to
                          be confirmed.
                          or more better put; there is obviously a need to look for all
                          >>avenues of knowledge;



                          >*******I'm not at all sure what you're trying to say, but no, the
                          path of spirit-science does not start with belief but with experience, with
                          things you can observe and know directly. The terms you use borrowed from the
                          old discredited Eastern religions, like "ego mind", have no relevence
                          to it, or any other science for that matter.
                          >   Perhaps you should acquaint yourself with Steiner and
                          anthroposophy...




                          www.DrStarman.com
                        • Daniel young
                          There is obviously a need to look for all avenues of knowledge . Some of these beleif systems enable us to unfold the truth;to see the Truth,and more
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jul 24, 2005
                            "There is obviously a need to look for all avenues of knowledge".

                            Some of these "beleif systems" enable us to unfold the truth;to see
                            the Truth,and more importantly to be at one with the Truth.

                            Now the sentence underneath may be easier to comprehend with a little
                            correction needed now.(that instead of this);as sentence referred to
                            is above now, as well as below original message.Also when you go into
                            the etheric brain(right side);the left sided analytical stuff becomes
                            more difficult, as the spirit world is where the real you is,or maybe
                            you just didnt understand my ways of putting things......sorry.



                            --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel young"
                            <whatsthepathwhereisit@y...> wrote:
                            > That is what i am trying to say,as there are beliefs that are far
                            > from just a belief also;but that said I do "Know" that if I used
                            > his /mine mind (the human mind) in a sceptical way that I could
                            pull
                            > apart all of yours and my beliefs,and even the parts that appear to
                            > be confirmed.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > or more better put; there is obviously a need to look for all
                            > > > avenues of knowledge;
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > > *******I'm not at all sure what you're trying to say, but no, the
                            > path of
                            > > spirit-science does not start with belief but with experience,
                            with
                            > things you
                            > > can observe and know directly. The terms you use borrowed from
                            the
                            > old
                            > > discredited Eastern religions, like "ego mind", have no relevence
                            > to it, or any other
                            > > science for that matter.
                            > > Perhaps you should acquaint yourself with Steiner and
                            > anthroposophy----
                            > > there are many people here who could answer any questions you may
                            > have about
                            > > it. But if you're just coming here to fish for converts to your
                            > belief-system, I
                            > > doubt you're in the right place.
                            > > -starman
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >** Yes I believe in Atlantis. Why not? Why couldn't past
                            > > > >civilizations be destroyed and forgotten by time?
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > > >> whatsthepathwhereisit@y... writes:>>>
                            > > >>> - I think this is a good point --- you "believe".
                            > > >>> So then, how do others know; that have had past memories of
                            > there
                            > > >>> lives, and have not studied Steiner ?
                            > > >>> Yes I believe in Atlantis,but I strongly accept that I dont
                            > know.
                            > > >>> Maybe Steiners methods are able to be improved on ---
                            > simplified.
                            > > >>>
                            > > >>>
                            > > >> ******* Many people have memories of other lives and many
                            other
                            > psychic
                            > > >> experiences without studying spiritual science, because
                            > they "studied" in
                            > > >> former lives and developed the abilities they're born with
                            then.
                            > Naturally,
                            > > >> unless one has absolutely no will or ambition or desire to
                            > improve oneself, the
                            > > >> point is not to rest content with whatever you happen to be
                            born
                            > with, but to
                            > > >> learn how to continue developing. That's the use of spiritual
                            > science, even
                            > > >> for people born psychic. And the use of this list is for
                            people
                            > to share
                            > > >> what they know from spiritual science. I can tell you that it
                            > has nothing to
                            > > >> do with belief, the same a s any other science, but with
                            direct
                            > knowledge.
                            > > >> You can obtain memories of former lives and this process will
                            > lead you back to
                            > > >> lives in Atlantis and being able to read the Akashic Records
                            > where such
                            > > >> history is all recorded.
                            > > >> -starman
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > www.DrStarman.com
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