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Thule

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  • Mathew Morrell
    I think I ve isolated the two occultists in pre WWII Germany most responsible for laying the groundwork for the Nazi movement: Blavatsky, unsurprisingly, and
    Message 1 of 6 , Jun 11 12:45 PM
      I think I've isolated the two occultists in pre WWII Germany most
      responsible for laying the groundwork for the Nazi movement:
      Blavatsky, unsurprisingly, and the other, a more conspicuous fellow
      by the name of Von Liszt.

      Although Blavatsky was not herself a Nazi—she was Russian—her Secret
      Doctrine shaped the minds of the upcoming generation of occult
      writers like Von Liszt. The idea that most influenced this man was
      Blavatsky's Aryan race theories.

      Von Liszt convinced tens of thousands of his followers they were the
      sacred race specified by Blavatsky, The Aryans, moreover that it was
      their natural right and destiny to rule the world and obliterate
      degenerate races leftover from previous stage of human evolution,
      beginning with the Jews.

      Out of the Theosophical Society emerged a splinter group called The
      German Order, which was a closed society composed of wealthy
      businessmen and aristocrats who performed occult rituals inspired by
      Blavatsky disciple Von Liszt. The Thule Society was the Munich lodge
      of the German Order, and its symbol was the swastika. Later it
      morphed into the German Workers Party, headed by Adolf Hitler.

      For Hitler the swastika was not only the Aryan symbol of the sun, but
      a symbol of the Aryans themselves, and the Nordic/Germans the
      carriers of this precious blood. After two centuries of cultural
      domination of Europe—through figures like Goethe, Mozart, Bach, Hegel—
      perhaps Hitler refused to believe that the opposite might be true;
      that Germany was, in fact, in cultural decline. After WW I, Germany
      was in ruin, culturally exhausted, economically depressed, divided
      both politically and socially, a shell of what it once was in past
      centuries. Listening to Hitler preach his views on racial
      superiority must have provided his followers with a temporary escape
      from the reality of their lives.

      Reality can be cruel, it can bite, but our dreams can be "crueller".
    • LilOleMissy
      ... Mathew, it seems to me the Swatstika is a very ancient Christian symbol which was reversed [i.e. turned to the reversed side, so to say] by Hitler et al. I
      Message 2 of 6 , Jun 11 2:11 PM
        > Out of the Theosophical Society emerged a splinter
        > group called The
        > German Order, which was a closed society composed of
        > wealthy
        > businessmen and aristocrats who performed occult
        > rituals inspired by
        > Blavatsky disciple Von Liszt. The Thule Society was
        > the Munich lodge
        > of the German Order, and its symbol was the
        > swastika. Later it
        > morphed into the German Workers Party, headed by
        > Adolf Hitler.

        Mathew, it seems to me the Swatstika is a very ancient
        Christian symbol which was reversed [i.e. turned to
        the reversed side, so to say] by Hitler et al. I hope
        someone might have far more knowledge of this than I.
        Among my gr-gr-great-grandmother's effects was a
        beautiful pure golden pin made sometime in the 1700's
        of just such a "backward turned" Swatstika.

        Blessings,

        Sheila



        This message is composed of 100% recycled electrons.
      • DoctorStarman@aol.com
        In a message dated 6/11/2005 5:13:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... ******* I believe you mean Buddhist symbol? I don t know of it as a Christian symbol. But it
        Message 3 of 6 , Jun 11 3:34 PM
          In a message dated 6/11/2005 5:13:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, lilolemissy@... writes:



          >Out of the Theosophical Society emerged a splinter
          >group called The
          >German Order, which was a closed society composed of
          >wealthy
          >businessmen and aristocrats who performed occult
          >rituals inspired by
          >Blavatsky disciple Von Liszt. The Thule Society was
          >the Munich lodge
          >of the German Order, and its symbol was the
          >swastika.  Later it
          >morphed into the German Workers Party, headed by
          >Adolf Hitler.

          Mathew, it seems to me the Swatstika is a very ancient
          Christian symbol .....



          ******* I believe you mean Buddhist symbol? I don't know of it as a Christian symbol. But it may have been at some point, and I'd be interested to know when.

             The "Hook-cross" was the symbol of the 4 Elements in motion, as the cross is the symbol of them at rest. The old Buddhist symbol turned in one direction, signifying withdrawing in contemplation from matter or manifestation; the Nazi Thule Group reversed it, meaning to plunge deeper into matter.             -starman


          which was reversed [i.e. turned to

          the reversed side, so to say] by Hitler et al. I hope
          someone might have far more knowledge of this than I.
          Among my gr-gr-great-grandmother's effects was a
          beautiful pure golden pin made sometime in the 1700's
          of just such a "backward turned" Swatstika.

          Blessings,

          Sheila



          This message is composed of 100% recycled electrons.




          http://www.DrStarman.com
        • LilOleMissy
          ... umm - my old backward turned Swatstika could well have originated as Buddhist, although no one in the family seems to have realized it existed as such,
          Message 4 of 6 , Jun 11 7:33 PM
            --- DoctorStarman@... wrote:

            > In a message dated 6/11/2005 5:13:44 PM Eastern
            > Standard Time,
            > lilolemissy@... writes:
            >
            > >
            > >
            > > >Out of the Theosophical Society emerged a
            > splinter
            > > >group called The
            > > >German Order, which was a closed society composed
            > of
            > > >wealthy
            > > >businessmen and aristocrats who performed occult
            > > >rituals inspired by
            > > >Blavatsky disciple Von Liszt. The Thule Society
            > was
            > > >the Munich lodge
            > > >of the German Order, and its symbol was the
            > > >swastika. Later it
            > > >morphed into the German Workers Party, headed by
            > > >Adolf Hitler.
            > >
            > > Mathew, it seems to me the Swatstika is a very
            > ancient
            > > Christian symbol .....
            >
            >
            > ******* I believe you mean Buddhist symbol? I don't
            > know of it as a Christian
            > symbol. But it may have been at some point, and I'd
            > be interested to know
            > when.
            >
            > The "Hook-cross" was the symbol of the 4 Elements
            > in motion, as the cross
            > is the symbol of them at rest. The old Buddhist
            > symbol turned in one
            > direction, signifying withdrawing in contemplation
            > from matter or manifestation; the
            > Nazi Thule Group reversed it, meaning to plunge
            > deeper into matter.
            > -starman
            >
            >
            > which was reversed [i.e. turned to>
            > > the reversed side, so to say] by Hitler et al. I
            > hope
            > > someone might have far more knowledge of this than
            > I.
            > > Among my gr-gr-great-grandmother's effects was a
            > > beautiful pure golden pin made sometime in the
            > 1700's
            > > of just such a "backward turned" Swatstika.
            > >
            > > Blessings,
            > >
            > > Sheila
            > >
            umm - my old "backward turned" Swatstika could well
            have originated as Buddhist, although no one in the
            family seems to have realized it existed as such, or
            if they did, never mentioned it. This is interesting!
            It was given to me by Hawaiian relatives who's
            forefathers went to the "Sandwich Islands" [Hawaii] as
            Christian missionaries around 1850 from Boston. I'll
            try to find out [tactfully] an exact origin more
            helpful. I've noticed many Buddhists on the islands
            but am lax in their history as relates to this symbol.

            I'm very glad you mentioned this, Dr. Starman! Surely
            somewhere Steiner refers to this symbol - maybe in his
            "Signs and Symbols" or somewhere. [...dusting off
            bookshelves yet again...:) ]

            Blessings,

            Sheila

            This message is composed of 100% recycled electrons.
          • DoctorStarman@aol.com
            In a message dated 6/11/2005 10:33:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ... *******In fact, the original edition of Knowledge of the Higher Worlds (published as The
            Message 5 of 6 , Jun 12 8:57 PM
              In a message dated 6/11/2005 10:33:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lilolemissy@... writes:

              >lilolemissy@... writes:
              >
              >>
              >>
              >>>Out of the Theosophical Society emerged a
              >splinter
              >>>group called The
              >>>German Order, which was a closed society composed
              >of
              >>>wealthy
              >>>businessmen and aristocrats who performed occult
              >>>rituals inspired by
              >>>Blavatsky disciple Von Liszt. The Thule Society
              >was
              >>>the Munich lodge
              >>>of the German Order, and its symbol was the
              >>>swastika.  Later it
              >>>morphed into the German Workers Party, headed by
              >>>Adolf Hitler.
              >>
              >>Mathew, it seems to me the Swatstika is a very
              >ancient
              >>Christian symbol .....
              >
              >
              >******* I believe you mean Buddhist symbol? I don't
              >know of it as a Christian
              >symbol. But it may have been at some point, and I'd
              >be interested to know
              >when.
              >
              >  The "Hook-cross" was the symbol of the 4 Elements
              >in motion, as the cross
              >is the symbol of them at rest. The old Buddhist
              >symbol turned in one
              >direction, signifying withdrawing in contemplation
              >from matter or manifestation; the
              >Nazi Thule Group reversed it, meaning to plunge
              >deeper into matter.       
              >-starman
              >
              >
              >which was reversed [i.e. turned to>
              >>the reversed side, so to say] by Hitler et al. I
              >hope
              >>someone might have far more knowledge of this than
              >I.
              >>Among my gr-gr-great-grandmother's effects was a
              >>beautiful pure golden pin made sometime in the
              >1700's
              >>of just such a "backward turned" Swatstika.
              >>
              >>Blessings,
              >>
              >>Sheila
              >>
              umm - my old "backward turned" Swatstika could well
              have originated as Buddhist, although no one in the
              family seems to have realized it existed as such, or
              if they did, never mentioned it. This is interesting!
              It was given to me by Hawaiian relatives who's
              forefathers went to the "Sandwich Islands" [Hawaii] as
              Christian  missionaries around 1850 from Boston. I'll
              try to find out [tactfully] an exact origin more
              helpful. I've noticed many Buddhists on the islands
              but am lax in their history as relates to this symbol.

              I'm very glad you mentioned this, Dr. Starman! Surely
              somewhere Steiner refers to this symbol - maybe in his
              "Signs and Symbols" or somewhere. [...dusting off
              bookshelves yet again...:) ]

              Blessings,

              Sheila


              *******In fact, the original edition of Knowledge of the Higher Worlds (published as The Way of Initiation) had the Buddhist swastika on its cover. Some of the people trying to link Steiner to the Nazis reprinted a picture of that cover, heedless of the fact that it turned in the opposite direction.          -starman
            • Pierre Gringoire
              ... But was it Blavatsky? The whole point about Blavatsky was that she was a conduit -- the vehicle through which other personalities could transmit certain
              Message 6 of 6 , Jun 13 9:51 AM
                 
                > I think I've isolated the two occultists in pre WWII Germany most
                > responsible for laying the groundwork for the Nazi movement: 
                > Blavatsky, unsurprisingly, and the other, a more conspicuous fellow
                > by the name of Von Liszt.

                > The idea that most
                influenced this man was Blavatsky's Aryan race theories.

                But was it Blavatsky?  The whole point about Blavatsky was that she was a conduit -- the vehicle through which other personalities could transmit certain knowledge to the wider world without their own identities being known.
                 
                The use (and misuse) of Blavatsky makes her biography is one of the most fascinating of the Nineteenth Century.  C.G. Harrison and Steiner both pointed to the way she was used, for often questionable motives, by the different brotherhoods of the period.
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