Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [steiner] Embalming, Bailey ETC

Expand Messages
  • DoctorStarman@aol.com
    ... *******In my opinion, this is gibberish. .... A great deal of nonsense has been told in current theosophical literature about the time ... *******Well,
    Message 1 of 3 , Apr 15, 2005
    • 0 Attachment

      Here is what Alice Bailey says about cremation and embalming:
      “Occultly speaking, cremation is needed for two main reasons. It hastens the release of the subtle vehicles (still enshrouding the soul) from the etheric body, thus bringing about the release in a few hours instead of a few days; it also is a much needed means for bringing about the purification of the astral plane and for arresting the ‘downward moving’ tendency of desire which so greatly handicaps the incarnating soul. It can find no point of focus, because essentially fire repels the form-making aspect of desire and is a major expression of divinity with which the astral plane has no true relation, being created entirely by the human soul and not by the divine soul…”

      *******In my opinion, this is gibberish.


        .... A great deal of nonsense has been told in current theosophical literature about the time
      equation in relation to the sequential destruction of the subtle bodies. It should be stated, however, that the moment that true death is scientifically established, and it has been ascertained that no spark of life remains in the physical body, cremation is then possible. This complete or true death eventuates when the thread of consciousness and the thread of life are completely withdrawn from the head and the heart. At the same time reverence and an unhurried attitude have their rightful place in the process. The family of the dead person need a few hours in which to adjust themselves to the fact of the imminent disappearance of the outer and usually loved form; due care must also be given to the formalities required by the state or the municipality. This time element has reference mainly to those who are left behind, to the living and not to the dead. The claim that the etheric body must not be rushed into the cremating flames, and the belief that it must be left to drift around for a stated period of several days, have also no true basis at all. There is no etheric need for delay. When the inner man withdraws from his physical vehicle he withdraws simultaneously from the etheric body. It is true that the etheric body is apt to linger for a long time on the ‘field of emanation’ when the physical body is interred, and it will frequently persist until complete disintegration of the dense body has taken place....



      *******Well, I've heard a variety of opinions expressed through the years about Alice Bailey and the worthwhileness (or lack thereof) of her writings, but I'd have to say this example shows, in my opinion, that she had no clue about anything real --- rather like Leadbeater and so many other post-Blavatsky Theosophists, where Steiner did.

          SHE is the one writing "nonsense" in this case. The elementals or etheric forces remain attached to the physical for several days, I am sure from experience. This shows she did not even understand the ethers, much less anything higher. Many Theospophists were just as bad, merely speculating with the intellect on things they read in Blavatsky, without any understanding of the source of such knowledge or, even worse, a false pretense at direct knowledge themselves, like Heindel or other fakers claiming to contact 'the Brothers'. The proof is in the fruits, since real contact always has a will-element and leads to productive work, as anthroposophy demonstrates in the schools, farms, arts, etc.

         I'm sure Bailey must have some good things in her work but in this she shows no higher knowledge at all, merely speculative logic. In short, here she becomes a tool of Ahriman. There's nothing wrong with cutting up or cremating the body right away? We should only wait a few hours for the sensibilities of the family? Rubbish. Small wonder the anti-Christian Theosophists could not appreciate the significance of the 3 days between Christ's death and resurrection.

      -Starman



      www.DrStarman.com
    • kathy
      This brings many questions to mind. Does the conscience mind end after death? What happens when a person is murdered or dies suddenly? From experience I do
      Message 2 of 3 , Apr 15, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        This brings many questions to mind. Does the conscience mind end
        after death? What happens when a person is murdered or dies
        suddenly? From experience I do know that a person's soul lingers
        with the body for a while.

        My main question is what happens to the conscience mind after death?


        --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, DoctorStarman@a... wrote:
        >
        > > Here is what Alice Bailey says about cremation and embalming:
        > > “Occultly speaking, cremation is needed for two main
        reasons.
        It hastens the
        > > release of the subtle vehicles (still enshrouding the soul) from
        the etheric
        > > body, thus bringing about the release in a few hours instead of
        a few days;
        > > it also is a much needed means for bringing about the
        purification of the
        > > astral plane and for arresting the ‘downward
        moving’
        tendency of desire which
        > > so greatly handicaps the incarnating soul. It can find no point
        of focus,
        > > because essentially fire repels the form-making aspect of desire
        and is a major
        > > expression of divinity with which the astral plane has no true
        relation, being
        > > created entirely by the human soul and not by the divine
        soul…”
        >
        > *******In my opinion, this is gibberish.
        >
        >
        > .... A great deal of nonsense has been told in current
        theosophical
        > literature about the time
        > > equation in relation to the sequential destruction of the subtle
        bodies. It
        > > should be stated, however, that the moment that true death is
        scientifically
        > > established, and it has been ascertained that no spark of life
        remains in
        > > the physical body, cremation is then possible. This complete or
        true death
        > > eventuates when the thread of consciousness and the thread of
        life are completely
        > > withdrawn from the head and the heart. At the same time
        reverence and an
        > > unhurried attitude have their rightful place in the process. The
        family of the
        > > dead person need a few hours in which to adjust themselves to
        the fact of the
        > > imminent disappearance of the outer and usually loved form; due
        care must
        > > also be given to the formalities required by the state or the
        municipality. This
        > > time element has reference mainly to those who are left behind,
        to the
        > > living and not to the dead. The claim that the etheric body must
        not be rushed
        > > into the cremating flames, and the belief that it must be left
        to drift around
        > > for a stated period of several days, have also no true basis at
        all. There is
        > > no etheric need for delay. When the inner man withdraws from his
        physical
        > > vehicle he withdraws simultaneously from the etheric body. It is
        true that the
        > > etheric body is apt to linger for a long time on the
        ‘field of
        emanation’
        > > when the physical body is interred, and it will frequently
        persist until
        > > complete disintegration of the dense body has taken place....
        >
        >
        >
        > *******Well, I've heard a variety of opinions expressed through
        the years
        > about Alice Bailey and the worthwhileness (or lack thereof) of her
        writings, but
        > I'd have to say this example shows, in my opinion, that she had no
        clue about
        > anything real --- rather like Leadbeater and so many other post-
        Blavatsky
        > Theosophists, where Steiner did.
        >
        > SHE is the one writing "nonsense" in this case. The elementals
        or etheric
        > forces remain attached to the physical for several days, I am sure
        from
        > experience. This shows she did not even understand the ethers,
        much less anything
        > higher. Many Theospophists were just as bad, merely speculating
        with the
        > intellect on things they read in Blavatsky, without any
        understanding of the source
        > of such knowledge or, even worse, a false pretense at direct
        knowledge
        > themselves, like Heindel or other fakers claiming to contact 'the
        Brothers'. The
        > proof is in the fruits, since real contact always has a will-
        element and leads to
        > productive work, as anthroposophy demonstrates in the schools,
        farms, arts,
        > etc.
        >
        > I'm sure Bailey must have some good things in her work but in
        this she
        > shows no higher knowledge at all, merely speculative logic. In
        short, here she
        > becomes a tool of Ahriman. There's nothing wrong with cutting up
        or cremating
        > the body right away? We should only wait a few hours for the
        sensibilities of
        > the family? Rubbish. Small wonder the anti-Christian Theosophists
        could not
        > appreciate the significance of the 3 days between Christ's death
        and resurrection.
        >
        > -Starman
        >
        >
        >
        > www.DrStarman.com
      • DoctorStarman@aol.com
        katmoon@cox.net writes: ... ******The conscious mind after death still exists, it is just conscious of other content than what we see and hear with our
        Message 3 of 3 , Apr 15, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          katmoon@... writes:

          This brings many questions to mind. Does the conscience mind end
          after death? What happens when a person is murdered or dies
          suddenly? From experience I do know that a person's soul lingers
          with the body for a while.
          My main question is what happens to the conscience mind after death?


          ******The conscious mind after death still exists, it is just conscious of other content than what we see and hear with our physical eyes and ears, just as it is each night in sleep, in the dream state (on the astral plane).
             Even when you are being introspective and contemplating your feelings or memories, to the point where you are paying almost no attention to sound and other sense-inputs, you are conscious without much influence from the physical body; you are then conscious but paying all your attention to the 'etheric' body.
              That's what you do in the first 2 or 3 days after death, when you are absorbing the memory-pictures of the entire life just lived. When you have a near-death experience, this is the 'life flashing before your eyes'  that people recall. We 'digest' this memory-tableau, and as we do so, we usually dissolve the etheric body of life-forces back into the earth's etheric world. All that remains is an extract of the life just lived, which is what forms the 'causal' body, which causes our karma to be carried forward from that life.
              Then we enter a period of time typically about one-third the life just lived, where we go back over the life and let go of all our attachments to the earth plane so we can move forward. This is called our time in 'Purgatory' in Christian doctrine, or 'Kama Loca' in Hinduism. The mind is then conscious of the 'astral' body or soul, which is what we live in then, without the physical body or the body of life force. The mind is conscious then not only of images of the life just lived, but the reality behind those images. Every hurt you caused another, now you feel the effects of your action on the other being.
              Meditation is a vastly increased form of this introspective consciousness, where you are fully alert but not paying attention to the body and the senses. The meditation exercises involving picturing make us conscious of the etheric body, those involving moral purification/ethics/feeling & will are to make us conscious of the astral. The more we do these exercises on earth, the stronger our consciousness is after death.
               People who are complete materialists go through the after-death state as if blind and deaf, unable to participate in it much, because during life they made themselves dependent on the physical body for their consciousness, and so now are unable to be conscious at all. As they sleepwalked though life, living in illusions, so then they sleep-walk through the next world. This has a negative effect in their next life.

          -Starman
          www.DrStarman.com
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.