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Re: [steiner] Embalming, ETC

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  • DoctorStarman@aol.com
    *******I was wondering the past few years what Steiner might have said about embalming. As we know, the elementals are not detached from the physical body
    Message 1 of 6 , Apr 8, 2005
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      *******I was wondering the past few years what Steiner might have said about embalming. As we know, the "elementals" are not detached from the physical body for several days after death, the time in which we are still living in the astral and etheric bodies, and it occurred to me some time ago that slicing open the physical body in this time period and basically taking it apart can cause a shock and harm to the not-yet-departed soul. This is why there was always the traditional "wake" time between death and burial, usually at least 2 or 3 days.

          I'd be interested in hearing more about a movement to restore a more normal and human practice of waking a departed soul. It seems to me that, just as birth was practically declared an illness and consigned to hospitals and "experts" until midwives arose to start reclaiming it in the 20th century, the same thing has happened with death in our modern world, with hospitals and funeral homes shrouding it all in mystery in order to make lots of money. In the same way as many farmers are afraid to drink raw milk from their own cows due to the success of Ahriman's anti-life "Fear Nature" propaganda, people I talk to about this act like a dead human body is immediately a health hazard to have around. Only a few generations ago my ancestors would think nothing of putting grandpa on the dining room table for 3 days before taking him to his burial, and no one ever got sick from doing so. Now a death can practically bankrupt many families.

      -starman


      In a message dated 4/6/2005 7:55:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lilolemissy@... writes:


      I'm glad to hear your thoughts of JZ Knight, since I've neglected to keep up with what's going on there, so I'll rectify that. It seems to me WA and OR, not to mention CA, seem to attract the Nutzo groups of this country, and in particular those of an Eastern/Indian philosophy, and I sometimes wonder if the North-South directions of our mountains have some influence? Interesting to ponder!

      I refuse to be embalmed, too, and you're so right about what Steiner taught about that! It seems to me, though, that the Pope was to be embalmed, but I could well have interpreted that erroneously. There are wonderful people in the A. Society who prepare people for buriel in "the old fashioned way" without embalming. My dear mother-in-law grew up with that old knowledge, and never hesitated to offer her services without charge  whenever needed even without the slightest knowledge of Steiner, and I felt very badly for her sake that at her death at age 92, that seemed a lost art 15 years ago. It's fascinating for me to look over the years of working in medicine and to see not only the changes to new ways, but more importantly to "NEW DISCOVERIES" of what was prevalent for many, many eons! Even here in CA there are home births and a slight beginning reversion to home "wakes" as in the old days--Hooray!

      There's hope yet, Mathew. I'm happy to sign yet another petition to help secure our borders, and especially so because of the individuals I see almost every day coming across from the Middle East, not to mention all of South America and Mexico. We are called "racist" for any attempt to stop this massive flood, and here in CA we are collapsing under the weight of attempting to stretch our scarce resources to take care of them as they need. One could weep, though, when thinking of these Great Migrations. These current situations seem to be part of World Karma, but in all honesty, I am not sure.

      Blessings,

      Sheila

      Mathew Morrell wrote:
      ** It might be interesting to note that Pope John Paul II was not
      embalmed, thank goodness.  This is a degenerate practice condnemned
      by Rudolph Steiner that involves draining the blood and other bodily
      fluids and intravenously injecting formaldehyde and other preserving
      liquids. Remember this information when you write up your wills. 
      You must be specific.  I do not want to be embalmed. 

      **I have just signed a national petition urging our elected
      officials to do everything in their power to Secure Our Borders and
      stop the flow of illegal aliens entering into our nation. Please
      consider taking action with me and click below for more information
      on this petition:

      http://www.grassfire.org/42/petition.asp?PID=8530750&NID=1

      **Every day I'm flabbergasted by the number of articles by major,
      reputable newspaper that openly promote JZ Knight's school in Yelm,
      WA.

      Her movie is sending shockwaves across the world among people who
      regularly monitor cults like RSE, and all of us are very
      disappointed with the media.  Personally, it's baffling.  Even
      though liberals are innocent by nature they should know better.

      J.Z. Knight is the leader of a mind control group in Yelm
      Washington, and her new movie is nothing more than a propaganda film
      to attract more followers.

      Connect to the Internet and you'll discover a plethora of articles
      and reports showing how much of a charlatan and a phony J.Z. Knight
      is.  Worse then her false Dooms Day predictions, however, are the
      innumerable families and marriages that have been shattered by this
      woman; or the lost childhoods of boys and girls drug into this insane
      movement by their parents. JZ's RSE (Ramtha's School of
      Enlightenment) is an environmental dooms day cult that
      has "prophesied" apocalyptic earthquakes, continent swallowing
      floods, genocidal diseases--all of which were supposed to occur in
      1988.

      When the apocalypse didn't occur, the date was moved back two more
      years, and the followers told to build underground bunkers stocked
      with a two year supply of food, water and ammunition. J.Z. Knight,
      alias Ramtha the Enlightened One, is famous for her disastrous
      financial advice that she gives her followers, leaving many of them
      penniless and destitute. She is a pathological liar who claims she
      channels a 35,000 old entity who lived in ancient Atlantis and has
      come back to Earth to start a ancient school of initiation.  The
      spiritual practices she teaches are dubious at best, even comical. 
      Imagine 1, 000 fools paying over a thousand dollars to spend a week
      at JZs Ranch in Yelm, Washington, spending hours pressing a rock
      against the tops of their skulls because this is supposed to "open"
      their brains.  What ridiculous pseudo science!


      Mathew Morrell
      www.kcpost.net, where you'll find the most enticing essays and
      articles on the WWW.




      www.DrStarman.com
    • LilOleMissy
      It seems to me the Christian Community Priests are well versed in Anthroposophical funerals but even should they not be available due to distance, etc., there
      Message 2 of 6 , Apr 8, 2005
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        It seems to me the Christian Community Priests are well versed in Anthroposophical funerals but even should they not be available due to distance, etc., there are natural ways to conduct funerals available to any who wish for them, or who's family would feel comfortable with this natural spiritual way of caring for the individual  who has crossed the Threshold. State laws may differ on what is legal, or even allowed, and in CA we are indeed fortunate to have this natural way available legally. It seems to me the Anthroposophical Society,  locally, nationally and from Dornach, maintains a directory of those gifted or trained in this wonderful way, and that may be a first step in locating not only the proper helpers, but also the local laws pertaining to these natural events. Yes, you are so right, Dr. Starman, in that hospitals and funeral homes shroud this process in mystery, whether consciously or unconsciourly. It seems to me society in general has also ursurped a vital role in that the old way of caring for the dead and dying is no longer taking place at home among loving friends and family, those who seem closest of all to the dying. There are also books available regarding this natural happening, and although I haven't searched well, I did find one site which seems promising: http://www.waldorfbooks.com/anthro/life_after_life_.htm

        You're so right about the 3 days of the "wake", Dr. Starman, and for not only the reason so well cited, but for others as well. From what little I know, the loved one is never left alone at any time, and at least one who loved him/her is to sit quietly nearby with thoughts directed lovingly toward that soul, recalling as many beautiful thoughts as can be remembered. Better yet, is a group of Friends recalling as many events of this person's life as possible, with love in laughter and tears: this aids in the panorama taking place during the initial 3 days, and aids in the further journey in the Spiritual World as well as in many other facets.

        I apologize for disjointed thoughts here - I seem to be trying to write down too much and out of sequence. Embalming is to be absolutely avoided, and all handling of the dead is by loving hands with loving continuous  thoughts only, while following the preparation of the physical body, the dead is attended for the 3 days as mentioned above, and surrounded with flowers which are replaced as needed. Steiner's own funeral was conducted in this way, and a death mask was made, as is acceptable. Cremation or buriel is equally appropriate, and Steiner chose cremation. During the actual buriel ceremony, there are passages to be said over the physical body, some of which are included in what is now known as "Karmic Relationships" Vol. III ["The Karma of the Anthroposophical Movement"].

        It seems to me Steiner's Vienna lectures, "The Inner Nature of Man and Life After Death" contains so very much which is applicable and explanatory to these events, and by accompanying the dead via one's thoughts, a very great blessing is bestowed for that beginning spiritual journey as well as for the entire universe. 

        I do apologize for my brevity and ommissions, and it might be said there are some matters about which we speak only in training or at the time of commission, but I so hope to have given some stimulus to perhaps a beginning restoration of what is a natural part of our life cycle.

        Sheila

        DoctorStarman@... wrote:
        *******I was wondering the past few years what Steiner might have said about embalming. As we know, the "elementals" are not detached from the physical body for several days after death, the time in which we are still living in the astral and etheric bodies, and it occurred to me some time ago that slicing open the physical body in this time period and basically taking it apart can cause a shock and harm to the not-yet-departed soul. This is why there was always the traditional "wake" time between death and burial, usually at least 2 or 3 days.

            I'd be interested in hearing more about a movement to restore a more normal and human practice of waking a departed soul. It seems to me that, just as birth was practically declared an illness and consigned to hospitals and "experts" until midwives arose to start reclaiming it in the 20th century, the same thing has happened with death in our modern world, with hospitals and funeral homes shrouding it all in mystery in order to make lots of money. In the same way as many farmers are afraid to drink raw milk from their own cows due to the success of Ahriman's anti-life "Fear Nature" propaganda, people I talk to about this act like a dead human body is immediately a health hazard to have around. Only a few generations ago my ancestors would think nothing of putting grandpa on the dining room table for 3 days before taking him to his burial, and no one ever got sick from doing so. Now a death can practically bankrupt many families.

        -starman


        In a message dated 4/6/2005 7:55:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lilolemissy@... writes:


        I'm glad to hear your thoughts of JZ Knight, since I've neglected to keep up with what's going on there, so I'll rectify that. It seems to me WA and OR, not to mention CA, seem to attract the Nutzo groups of this country, and in particular those of an Eastern/Indian philosophy, and I sometimes wonder if the North-South directions of our mountains have some influence? Interesting to ponder!

        I refuse to be embalmed, too, and you're so right about what Steiner taught about that! It seems to me, though, that the Pope was to be embalmed, but I could well have interpreted that erroneously. There are wonderful people in the A. Society who prepare people for buriel in "the old fashioned way" without embalming. My dear mother-in-law grew up with that old knowledge, and never hesitated to offer her services without charge  whenever needed even without the slightest knowledge of Steiner, and I felt very badly for her sake that at her death at age 92, that seemed a lost art 15 years ago. It's fascinating for me to look over the years of working in medicine and to see not only the changes to new ways, but more importantly to "NEW DISCOVERIES" of what was prevalent for many, many eons! Even here in CA there are home births and a slight beginning reversion to home "wakes" as in the old days--Hooray!

        There's hope yet, Mathew. I'm happy to sign yet another petition to help secure our borders, and especially so because of the individuals I see almost every day coming across from the Middle East, not to mention all of South America and Mexico. We are called "racist" for any attempt to stop this massive flood, and here in CA we are collapsing under the weight of attempting to stretch our scarce resources to take care of them as they need. One could weep, though, when thinking of these Great Migrations. These current situations seem to be part of World Karma, but in all honesty, I am not sure.

        Blessings,

        Sheila

        Mathew Morrell wrote:
        ** It might be interesting to note that Pope John Paul II was not
        embalmed, thank goodness.  This is a degenerate practice condnemned
        by Rudolph Steiner that involves draining the blood and other bodily
        fluids and intravenously injecting formaldehyde and other preserving
        liquids. Remember this information when you write up your wills. 
        You must be specific.  I do not want to be embalmed. 

        **I have just signed a national petition urging our elected
        officials to do everything in their power to Secure Our Borders and
        stop the flow of illegal aliens entering into our nation. Please
        consider taking action with me and click below for more information
        on this petition:

        http://www.grassfire.org/42/petition.asp?PID=8530750&NID=1

        **Every day I'm flabbergasted by the number of articles by major,
        reputable newspaper that openly promote JZ Knight's school in Yelm,
        WA.

        Her movie is sending shockwaves across the world among people who
        regularly monitor cults like RSE, and all of us are very
        disappointed with the media.  Personally, it's baffling.  Even
        though liberals are innocent by nature they should know better.

        J.Z. Knight is the leader of a mind control group in Yelm
        Washington, and her new movie is nothing more than a propaganda film
        to attract more followers.

        Connect to the Internet and you'll discover a plethora of articles
        and reports showing how much of a charlatan and a phony J.Z. Knight
        is.  Worse then her false Dooms Day predictions, however, are the
        innumerable families and marriages that have been shattered by this
        woman; or the lost childhoods of boys and girls drug into this insane
        movement by their parents. JZ's RSE (Ramtha's School of
        Enlightenment) is an environmental dooms day cult that
        has "prophesied" apocalyptic earthquakes, continent swallowing
        floods, genocidal diseases--all of which were supposed to occur in
        1988.

        When the apocalypse didn't occur, the date was moved back two more
        years, and the followers told to build underground bunkers stocked
        with a two year supply of food, water and ammunition. J.Z. Knight,
        alias Ramtha the Enlightened One, is famous for her disastrous
        financial advice that she gives her followers, leaving many of them
        penniless and destitute. She is a pathological liar who claims she
        channels a 35,000 old entity who lived in ancient Atlantis and has
        come back to Earth to start a ancient school of initiation.  The
        spiritual practices she teaches are dubious at best, even comical. 
        Imagine 1, 000 fools paying over a thousand dollars to spend a week
        at JZs Ranch in Yelm, Washington, spending hours pressing a rock
        against the tops of their skulls because this is supposed to "open"
        their brains.  What ridiculous pseudo science!


        Mathew Morrell
        www.kcpost.net, where you'll find the most enticing essays and
        articles on the WWW.


      • james wandzala
        Here is what Alice Bailey says about cremation and embalming: “Occultly speaking, cremation is needed for two main reasons. It hastens the release of the
        Message 3 of 6 , Apr 12, 2005
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          Here is what Alice Bailey says about cremation and embalming:

           

          �Occultly speaking, cremation is needed for two main reasons. It hastens the release of the subtle vehicles (still enshrouding the soul) from the etheric body, thus bringing about the release in a few hours instead of a few days; it also is a much needed means for bringing about the purification of the astral plane and for arresting the �downward moving� tendency of desire which so greatly handicaps the incarnating soul. It can find no point of focus, because essentially fire repels the form-making aspect of desire and is a major expression of divinity with which the astral plane has no true relation, being created entirely by the human soul and not by the divine soul��

           

          �By the use of fire, all forms are dissolved; the quicker the human physical vehicle is destroyed the quicker is its hold upon the withdrawing soul broken. A great deal of nonsense has been told in current theosophical literature about the time equation in relation to the sequential destruction of the subtle bodies. It should be stated, however, that the moment that true death is scientifically established, and it has been ascertained that no spark of life remains in the physical body, cremation is then possible. This complete or true death eventuates when the thread of consciousness and the thread of life are completely withdrawn from the head and the heart. At the same time reverence and an unhurried attitude have their rightful place in the process. The family of the dead person need a few hours in which to adjust themselves to the fact of the imminent disappearance of the outer and usually loved form; due care must also be given to the formalities required by the state or the municipality. This time element has reference mainly to those who are left behind, to the living and not to the dead. The claim that the etheric body must not be rushed into the cremating flames, and the belief that it must be left to drift around for a stated period of several days, have also no true basis at all. There is no etheric need for delay. When the inner man withdraws from his physical vehicle he withdraws simultaneously from the etheric body. It is true that the etheric body is apt to linger for a long time on the �field of emanation� when the physical body is interred, and it will frequently persist until complete disintegration of the dense body has taken place. The process of mummifying, as practiced in Egypt, and of embalming, as practiced in the West, have been responsible for the perpetuation of the etheric body, sometimes for centuries. This is particularly the case when the mummy or embalmed person was of an evil character during life; the hovering etheric body is then often �possessed� by an evil entity or evil force. Where cremation is the rule, there is not only the immediate destruction of the physical body and its restitution to the fount of substance, but the vital body is also promptly dissolved and its forces swept away by the current of flame into the reservoir of vital energies. Of that reservoir it has ever been an inherent part, either in form or in a formless condition. After death and cremation these forces still exist but are absorbed into the analogous whole. Ponder on this statement, for it will give you the clue to the creative work of the human spirit. If delay is necessary from family feeling or municipal requirements, cremation should follow death within thirty-six hours; where no reason for delay exists, cremation can be rightly permitted in twelve hours. It is wise, however, to wait twelve hours in order to ensure true death.�

           

          (A Treatise on the Seven Rays: Vol. IV-Esoteric Healing)

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        • eyecueco@netscape.net
          ... Maybe he embalmed, maybe not. This statement came from Joaquin Navarro-Valls, who has headed up the Vatican Press Room for ages.   Given that he is Opus
          Message 4 of 6 , Apr 13, 2005
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            "Mathew Morrell" <tma4cbt@...> wrote:

            >
            >** It might be interesting to note that Pope John Paul II was not
            >embalmed, thank goodness.  

            Maybe he embalmed, maybe not. This statement came from Joaquin
            Navarro-Valls, who has headed up the Vatican Press Room for ages.  
            Given that he is Opus Dei to his bone marrow accurate reporting, much
            less the TRUTH,  is irrelevant.

            Navarro-Valls would not elaborate what his statement "prepared for burial" meant.  
            Typical of him, but, he has been manipulating press releases for so long I doubt he even
            knows what truth is anymore.  With Opus Dei it's all about the agenda, the WORK.
            What is going on in Rome is the biggest public relations spin since Reagan's funeral.
             
            Diogenes would throw himself off the nearest cliff in despair if he were still around.

            It is becoming very clear to see how easily the masses are going to be manipulated by
            the anti-Christ in the future.  Already the ability to discern is bottoming out. Dumb 'em
            down, give them bread and circus celebrity icons, add information overload, top it off
            with daily stress and survival issues, and you have a primed humanity ready and waiting for
            the big hook.

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