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THE ABYSS

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  • Mathew Morrell
    DA ATH or ABYSS might be what I m looking for---not for myself personally, but for my philosophy of religion paper. The ABYSS has positive and negative
    Message 1 of 4 , Nov 22, 2004
      DA'ATH or ABYSS might be what I'm looking for---not for myself
      personally, but for my philosophy of religion paper.


      The ABYSS has positive and negative attributes, according to several
      books that I've read this week end. This is where all things exist
      in their potential state, untouched and virginal. So I don't want
      to demean the ABYSS-state. It's a part of the Tree of Life, after
      all.


      Let me fearlessly speculate:


      I want to briefly show how it can be misused by declining
      civilization who've entered the ABYSS incorrectly. For, although
      all things exist here in their potential, all things here are
      meaningless within themselves. Souls in Fallen Civilizations
      collapse into the meaninglessness of the ABYSS because they
      themselves lack meaning. The soul has renounced its meaning as an
      individual for that which is collectivized, non-human and
      instinctual: the Marxist Super State. Here the idea of "the
      individual" has been reduced to its lowest denominator; that is, man
      has been reduced to a collective concept. Decadent civilizations
      can only express their I AM in ways that are sub-human, degenerate
      or absurdly trivial, i.e. through tattoos and body piercing.


      The EGO that enters the ABYSS must first organize his inner nature
      in the RUACH below the ABYSS, where our human selves develop and
      evolve through the pain and suffering—Manas—in the world.


      The ABYSS strikes me as being rather similar, in some respects, not
      all, to the Buddhist concept of Nirvana. It must be approached in
      very succinct, deliberate manner, or else the individual cannot
      sustain its self. It falls into the demonic.
    • eyecueco@netscape.net
      Matthew, The Abyss is a part of the Tree of Life depending on which diagram of which Tree of Life in which Kaballah you are looking at. DA ATH is the sephira:
      Message 2 of 4 , Nov 23, 2004
        Matthew,

        The Abyss is a part of the Tree of Life depending on which diagram of which
        Tree of Life in which Kaballah you are looking at.

        DA'ATH is the sephira:
        - "that is not there"
        - "the space in the Abyss a sephria could occupy"
        - "an empty room"
        - "an image of Kether otherwise totally unreachable"

        DA'ATh hides a great secret, has been called the False Head, due to how easy it can be to think that "knowledge is the the Crown (Kether).
        Knowledge without Wisdom (Chockmah) and Understanding (Binah)
        can result in a fall into the Abyss.

        I'm, personally not comfortable with how you are seeing a declining civilization in the same light as the Abyss. Every civilization/culture
        has a beginning, a zenith and a decline. You seem to be seeing
        'decline' as synonymous with 'abyss'. A decline is not the same thing
        as falling into an abyss, imo, anymore than the decline of physical
        and mental attributes in old age is the same as falling into an abyss.
        I don't see Egypt has having fallen into an abyss, and or meaninglessness,
        nor the Two River countries, nor Greece, nor Rome, but rather see
        these civilizations as having declined. Your term Fallen civilizations
        just seems rather harsh.

        Also not comfortable with how you are using "Ruach". Ruach, as I
        understand the term is one aspect of three main soul levels -
        Neshamah the mental, Ruach the emotional, and Nefesh the sensual
        level - a triadic nature in the journey through the fourth to sixth world.

        I also do not believe that a civilization can have an "I AM".

        Just some thoughts that arose as I read your post.

        Regards,
        Paulina


        "Mathew Morrell" <tma4cbt@...> wrote:

        >
        >DA'ATH or ABYSS might be what I'm looking for---not for myself
        >personally, but for my philosophy of religion paper.
        >
        >
        >The ABYSS has positive and negative attributes, according to several
        >books that I've read this week end.  This is where all things exist
        >in their potential state, untouched and virginal.  So I don't want
        >to demean the ABYSS-state.  It's a part of the Tree of Life, after
        >all.
        >
        >
        >Let me fearlessly speculate:
        >
        >
        >I want to briefly show how it can be misused by declining
        >civilization who've entered the ABYSS incorrectly.  For, although
        >all things exist here in their potential, all things here are
        >meaningless within themselves.  Souls in Fallen Civilizations
        >collapse into the meaninglessness of the ABYSS because they
        >themselves lack meaning.  The soul has renounced its meaning as an
        >individual for that which is collectivized, non-human and
        >instinctual:  the Marxist Super State.  Here the idea of "the
        >individual" has been reduced to its lowest denominator; that is, man
        >has been reduced to a collective concept.  Decadent civilizations
        >can only express their I AM in ways that are sub-human, degenerate
        >or absurdly trivial, i.e. through tattoos and body piercing.
        >
        >
        >The EGO that enters the ABYSS must first organize his inner nature
        >in the RUACH below the ABYSS, where our human selves develop and
        >evolve through the pain and suffering—Manas—in the world.
        >
        >
        >The ABYSS strikes me as being rather similar, in some respects, not
        >all, to the Buddhist concept of Nirvana.  It must be approached in
        >very succinct, deliberate manner, or else the individual cannot
        >sustain its self.  It falls into the demonic.


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      • DoctorStarman@aol.com
        tma4cbt@juno.com writes: ... *******You could say it IS the Buddhist concept of Nirvana, and this touches on the reason why modern people trying to follow old
        Message 3 of 4 , Dec 19, 2004
          tma4cbt@... writes:

          The ABYSS strikes me as being rather similar, in some respects, not
          all, to the Buddhist concept of Nirvana.  It must be approached in
          very succinct, deliberate manner, or else the individual cannot
          sustain its self.  It falls into the demonic. 



          *******You could say it IS the Buddhist concept of Nirvana, and this touches on the reason why modern people trying to follow old Eastern paths become negative. What was a worthy goal to be attained in the time before Christ, when we were DESCENDING into incarnation, becomes in the time since His Advent an EVIL thing when striven for when we try to ASCEND.

             Look at the doctrine of the "attainment of non-attachment" as found in Buddha, for instance, and the effect of the identical doctrine propounded by Schopenhauer (it was Hitler's favorite).

             To negate the "self" was a worthy goal in pre-Christian times, because the "ego" or "I" we had before about the 5th century B.C. was a false one. But the Christ coming in to the earth was the historical parallel with our True Self coming in to us, so that now the "I" can become the Higher Self guiding one and so need not be removed, rather simply enlightened or purified. There is no need to destroy or get rid of the mind or ego, as one hears in so many Eastern-oriented religions today. This, in fact, is actually the same goal as in circles of drug addicts: destroy the Ego so we can be like animals again. Look at the demi-Eastern injunctions to 'be here now", to live only in the present (the astral), as animals do. To do so you must have no memory of past mistakes to learn from and follow no plan for your future---in other words, your ego stops developing, because such 'philosophies' as no-longer-appropriate Eastern paths and drug-induced 'mysticism' have no developmental aspect.

             In the modern day, this actually creates an emptiness all right, but most often not one that God occupies, but rather lower astral entites (as in mediumship). This is the Abyss we all must face in initiation, an emptiness which is actually an illusion just as death is only an illusion of nothingness. Find the One Who overcomes Death within and the Abyss is no longer empty!

          Dr. Starman.
          www.DrStarman.net
        • Br. Ron
          Dr. Starman, your writing here is Qabalistic. ....both profound and astute, as usual! Br. Ron ... From: DoctorStarman@aol.com To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
          Message 4 of 4 , Dec 20, 2004
            Dr. Starman,  your writing here is Qabalistic.
            ....both profound and astute, as usual!
             
            Br. Ron
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 5:38 PM
            Subject: Re: [steiner] THE ABYSS

            tma4cbt@... writes:

            The ABYSS strikes me as being rather similar, in some respects, not
            all, to the Buddhist concept of Nirvana.  It must be approached in
            very succinct, deliberate manner, or else the individual cannot
            sustain its self.  It falls into the demonic. 



            *******You could say it IS the Buddhist concept of Nirvana, and this touches on the reason why modern people trying to follow old Eastern paths become negative. What was a worthy goal to be attained in the time before Christ, when we were DESCENDING into incarnation, becomes in the time since His Advent an EVIL thing when striven for when we try to ASCEND.

               Look at the doctrine of the "attainment of non-attachment" as found in Buddha, for instance, and the effect of the identical doctrine propounded by Schopenhauer (it was Hitler's favorite).

               To negate the "self" was a worthy goal in pre-Christian times, because the "ego" or "I" we had before about the 5th century B.C. was a false one. But the Christ coming in to the earth was the historical parallel with our True Self coming in to us, so that now the "I" can become the Higher Self guiding one and so need not be removed, rather simply enlightened or purified. There is no need to destroy or get rid of the mind or ego, as one hears in so many Eastern-oriented religions today. This, in fact, is actually the same goal as in circles of drug addicts: destroy the Ego so we can be like animals again. Look at the demi-Eastern injunctions to 'be here now", to live only in the present (the astral), as animals do. To do so you must have no memory of past mistakes to learn from and follow no plan for your future---in other words, your ego stops developing, because such 'philosophies' as no-longer-appropriate Eastern paths and drug-induced 'mysticism' have no developmental aspect.

               In the modern day, this actually creates an emptiness all right, but most often not one that God occupies, but rather lower astral entites (as in mediumship). This is the Abyss we all must face in initiation, an emptiness which is actually an illusion just as death is only an illusion of nothingness. Find the One Who overcomes Death within and the Abyss is no longer empty!

            Dr. Starman.
            www.DrStarman.net


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