RE: [steiner] Misunderstood
I got the word "sociopath" from Mr. Morrell's posting.
His words were:
"True sociopathic personalities who have no regard for
humanity walk among us. And they can't be subdued
with "gentle healing," just as the Nazi's couldn't, or
Genghis Khan. They only respect one thing. Power."
I was not intending to contradict Mr. Morrell's
statements with my own by responding to it. As you
demonstrate, sociopath was not the best word which
could have been used in relation to the Nazis and
I said specifically that I was "curious and optomistic
about today's events." I was not disregarding the
current state of affairs in Afganistan by stating that
we are not yet out of the woods. Recent history has
shown that our task is difficult, which is something
we've all been saying in one form or another. Stating
that we have our work cut out for us is not the same
as saying we're doomed to failure or that the work
isn't worthy of completion.
I don't appreciate being directly attacked on what I
have said without a full understanding of my position.
In emphasizing caution, I am not encouraging defeat
or retreat in this struggle.
I'm saddened to see that little can come in the way of
elevated discourse in regard to current events in this
forum. I don't believe that I've contradicted Br.
Ron's statements in any way by my postings, and yet
others see fit to attack me for perceived views that I
do not hold. It is a wise thing to be careful to be
sure the attacks we make on one another are reasoned
and justified and not a reaction to a perceived threat
that may not exist.
I enjoy experiencing other people's passions and
positions on these serious issues. I'm thankful
you've opened yourselves up to me without knowing much
about me at all, allowing me to see where you're
coming from. Some of us are stuck in our good ways
and have a tendency to get a little worked up, but I
value what I read on the site and work to grasp what
people are writing as best I can, even when I'm not
sure I completely understand or agree with everything
that I'm reading, and even when the responses I
receive to my posts are intended to be hurtful or
demeaning in a way that my original posts were not. I
am convinced that some of the nastier tones in the
broader dialogue could have been avoided without
losing the intended point.
After all, I'm not the guy on the street shouting
antiwar statements at the rally of the Socialist
Party. Despite what some have insinuated, I'm really
not. I'm just struggling to learn what other's
opinions are on these matters and explore new sources
of information. I'm coming to the forum as an eager
student, not an electronic terrorist.
I hope I've made a little sense through all this.
> >I'm curious and optomistic about the outcome of__________________________________________________________________
> >today's events. �Realizing a democratic nation
> >the unleashing of awesome deadly force from an
> >external party in a place that has no experience
> >living within a democratic society is something
> >hasn't worked too well in recent memory.
> Guess you have not kept up with what is happening in
> Kaul is no longer a capitol of silence and street
> beatings of women
> for� not having their berka on straight, Girls are
> now going to school,
> the soccer field there is now used for athletic
> games instead of public
> executions (throats slit).
> If you are only watching John Steward and or the MSM
> no wonder
> you seem confused.
> It is so very sad that there are so very few like
> Br. Ron. �So many
> don't get it that we are in another world war. �What
> is especially
> disappointing to me personally is to have
> discovered, since 9-11
> that the mindset of so many who consider themselves
> is that of left-wing socialism. Socialism is deadly
> to the developing
> ego consciousness.
> We are not in the 6th epoch yet.
> The conquering by the sword for the greater good is
> still a necessity
> in these times, just as it was when Alexander
> unleased his
> "awesome deadly force" across most of the known
> world, and
> King Arthur unleased "awesome deadly force"
> Britain .
> You might possibly consider reading something of
> David Hanson (victorhanson.com). � He knows a thing
> or two
> about both the classic world, a lot about warfare,
> and has
> something intelligent to say about the state of
> things today.
> He's not an anthropop, but, it is interesting to
> discover that
> he says essentially the same thing, from a secular
> that Johannes Walter Stein said, (i.e., that this
> with the East at the end of the 20th Century) is a
> battle that
> must be won if the world is to progress onward
> rather than fall
> back into a tragic dark age. �
> One of the sorriest points missed by the bleeding
> heart liberal in his
> or her blinding, thought-stopping hatred for
> 'Dubya' is that the time
> has come for the East to be brought into the 21st
> Century, and if the
> current campaign against the Islamic terrorist,
> (which I am absolutely
> convinced is the repetition of the Battle of Salamis
> predicted by Stein)
> meets with failure, then the chance for the East to
> move on from tribal,
> group ego consciousness will be lost, with the
> gravest of consequences
> for the West and civilization in general.
> It is really important for those who call themselves
> anthopops to remember
> that these conflicts arise first in the higher
> worlds, and are then played
> out down here below in this sad, broken domain.
> �It's not nice, it even
> sucks, but, that's the game and the one that we are
> stuck in for a long
> time to come. (Another reference to ponder is
> Trithemius and what he
> tells us about what happens during the Time Reign of
> the various
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- In a message dated 10/14/2004 5:54:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, social_artist@... writes:
I pondered this following this afternoon and decided
to put it on the forum. Per the third paragraph of
this e-mail, if you have knowledge of instances when
Steiner discussed the motivation for Jesus's weeping,
I'd be most interested in learning of them.
******* I know of the most famous case. The shortest verse of the Bible is "Jesus wept" ----at the raising of Lazarus. It was said that way to draw attention to the fact that the Christ was doing something special: through his love for the man Lazarus, he was initiating him, just as the initiates in olden times used the power of love to keep a candidate alive as they separated his etheric body from his physical one, in memory of which the initiate was afterwards known as "the Loved One." This man, Lazarus, later became the apostle John, always referred to as the disciple the Lord "loved."
- social_artist@... writes:
True sociopaths not only respect power but also crave
it and find strength wherever it is being unleashed,
both from the left and the right.
I'm curious and optomistic about the outcome of
today's events. Realizing a democratic nation through
the unleashing of awesome deadly force from an
external party in a place that has no experience
living within a democratic society is something that
hasn't worked too well in recent memory...
*******Well, my memory goes back to Japan in 1945. I'd say the US did a pretty good job of transforming that completely undemocratic nation after using deadly force to overwhelm it. Its women, for instance, had as little freedom as those in Afghanistan and Iraq did until this year.
I think we need to remember that freedom is the "zeitgeist" or spirit of the age, being able to act freely out of your intuition of the right thing to do. Even if group-souls of nations have no tradition of freedom of religion, self-government, etc., the yearning of all human beings in our time is to be free, and the Zeitgeist is far more powerful than the Archangels of each country. If we work with that yearning, give people the means to determine their own lives, it will succeed sooner or later.
I'dsay we're at the start of a Third World War the past 3 years, one that will last at least as long as the Cold War, a generation or two. But as long as we stay on the side of peoples' demand for freedom, we'll win.
>I'm curious and optomistic about the outcome of
>today's events. Realizing a democratic nation through
>the unleashing of awesome deadly force from an
>external party in a place that has no experience
>living within a democratic society is something that
>hasn't worked too well in recent memory.
Guess you have not kept up with what is happening in Afganistan.
Kaul is no longer a capitol of silence and street beatings of women
for not having their berka on straight, Girls are now going to school,
the soccer field there is now used for athletic games instead of public
executions (throats slit).
If you are only watching John Steward and or the MSM no wonder
you seem confused.
It is so very sad that there are so very few like Br. Ron. So many
don't get it that we are in another world war. What is especially
disappointing to me personally is to have discovered, since 9-11
that the mindset of so many who consider themselves anthroposophists
is that of left-wing socialism. Socialism is deadly to the developing
*******It's the reason why I have not been very active with the Society in the US, and not at all with the Social Science section, despite being a professor of the social sciences: the leftist bias. Socialism is a materialistic-thought-based illusion that anyone on the spiritual path must see through eventually. That so many anthroposophists were rabid leftists was depressing to me when I first found it to be so in the 1980s, and only showed me that they had not really gotten anywhere on the Path yet.
You might possibly consider reading something of Victor
David Hanson (victorhanson.com). He knows a thing or two
about both the classic world, a lot about warfare, and has
something intelligent to say about the state of things today.
He's not an anthropop, but, it is interesting to discover that
he says essentially the same thing, from a secular voice,
that Johannes Walter Stein said, (i.e., that this confrontation
with the East at the end of the 20th Century) is a battle that
must be won if the world is to progress onward rather than fall
back into a tragic dark age.
One of the sorriest points missed by the bleeding heart liberal in his
or her blinding, thought-stopping hatred for 'Dubya' is that the time
has come for the East to be brought into the 21st Century, and if the
current campaign against the Islamic terrorist, (which I am absolutely
convinced is the repetition of the Battle of Salamis predicted by Stein)
meets with failure, then the chance for the East to move on from tribal,
group ego consciousness will be lost, with the gravest of consequences
for the West and civilization in general.
It is really important for those who call themselves anthopops to remember
that these conflicts arise first in the higher worlds, and are then played
out down here below in this sad, broken domain. It's not nice, it even
sucks, but, that's the game and the one that we are stuck in for a long
time to come. (Another reference to ponder is Trithemius and what he
tells us about what happens during the Time Reign of the various
********As a matter of fact, by Thithemius von Spondheim's 343-year cycles (which Steiner pointed to), a replay or repeat of the Battle of Salamis, which is to say a catclysmic confrontation between the inividuality-denying East and the individual-affirming West, was forecast for either Sept. 2000 or Sept. 2001, depending how you calculate.
- In a message dated 10/14/2004 5:44:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, social_artist@... writes:
My goodness, Br. Ron. You have some interesting
points, and your exposition is certainly dramatic;
however, it is my recollection that political
discussions in this forum were to be avoided. In the
end, it seems to me that the scariest part of today's
political landscape is the apathetic nature of the
American people, who more and more spend the length of
their days eating canned foods off of plastic plates
in front of the television instead of raising their
children and organizing social events with their
neighbors. This is the reason a fellow like Kerry is
up for the presidency. It's not as though the guy had
to burn down the Reichstag.
*******Well, it's election time, and Steiner did have a lot to say about the practical world of organizing society. I just fear that allowing political discussions will degenerate into arguments and, as they say, creat "much heat but little light."
It's amazing how people studying the same material can so easily come to the conclusion that it supports their opinion that one of two candidates is the Devil, while others say the exact same thing is equally clear about his opponent! It all only shows that people haven't really digested the teaching about the Mystery of Evil, that there are two devils. Of any two candidates, I'm sure a case could be made how either of them would advance the cause of evil, because there are two opposite causes of evil.
- Thanks for giving such a eloquent message. On the eve of this election, I have confidence that right will win.Renee Lattimore
"Br. Ron" <rlloyd@...> wrote:This is just my opinion and good folks can disagree.Qabala is a wonderful spiritual tool because it revealsthe location of spiritual shadows.Let's apply this to American politics.John Kerry to be not only and opportunistic machinebut a full blown traitor....both in the 70s and now.
First, look into his face. It doesn't take a Cagliostro to see
he only occasionally departs from the haunting image of 'just
another genderless, talking head.'Clever?...Yes....to the point of demagoguery but more importantlyQabalistic term
he lacks that essential soul quality associated with a vulnerable
conscience. Kerry seems blissfully free of both passion and heart,
Bereft of any genuine 'fire in the belly' he lives up to the'qliphoth'.....which is but a shell.
Kerry gets his juice from professional victims and survives
politically by simple negativity and doubt...by making all things
pertaining to the US an "error."
His opportunistic grandstanding in the Seventies torpedoed our
"might for right" and served to lead to the wholesale
slaughter of nearly a million Vietnamese after the war...to say
nothing of setting up Pol Pot's evil rampage in Cambodia.
Had we been truly the UNITED States in winning that conflict,
there would have been far fewer human casualties and we would
have established a bright bastion of freedom in Indochina.
(A case in point is what we saw taking root this weekend in Afghanistan,
sporting endless lines of men and women risking life and limb to get
to vote...... for the first time ever!)
Regardless of the rampant left wing cynicism, this war
aint all just about money and oil. It is not even about Iraq orthe Middle East. It's a cosmic power grab chronicled in the texts of
every major religion,... albeit by different names.
There are parasitic forces tempting us from our bravery
and degrading our duty; our heavenly mandate of sacrifice and
promulgation of 'Good' performed in manly and knightly ways.If this vampirism succeeds, all Life on Earth will cease.
As a man, I see ridding the world of parasitic tyranny is achivalrous duty. Chivalry is a religion not unlike the Samurai.
But "Might for Right" is a creed grasped only by practitioners
of TRUE self sacrificial Love, a concept for which the political leftgives lip service but has absolutely no grasp.
Kerry cannot win. ....He MUST NOT win.
Fortunately, Americans are ultimately driven by an innate sense of right
and wrong. I trust us to distinguish between the verbose, reflected specter
of 'lunar light' in contrast to the real thing. True Beings of Light demonstrate
Spirit and self reliance, not social dependency. They display the self generatingSolar Light emanating from yes, the Sun of God.
Remember King Arthur had an effeminate offspring like our slick
friend. Mordred was massaged, oiled and pussified daily by hismother, Morgan LeFay. This lunar witch was Arthur's sister
with whom he slept. Mordred, the incestual offspring of this union,
ultimately brought down Arthur's solar kingdom which in truth was
initiated by the Christos.
This archetypal gender battle repeating itself once again
on the stage of American and global politics. The I-Ching has a
hexagram ('KUN...The Receptive...with a moving line at the top)
"In the top place the Yin (female) element should yield to the light.
If it attempts to maintain a position to which it is not entitled
and to rule instead of serving, it draws down on itself the anger
of the strong. A struggle ensues in which it is overthrown,
with injury, however, to both sides. Therefore, it is a sign
that in unnatural contest both primal powers (Male and Female)
This gender confusion of Yang in relation to Yin is symbolized in
every religion including the story in Genesis with Adam disconnectingfrom his Reason..his Oversoul in order to follow Eve's impulsive Natureworship.
This sounds sexist...but it isn't. Nor am I suggesting
the masculine principle is somehow 'better' than the feminine.
It's just that each has it's appropriate place within ourselvesand within cosmic order.It simply means that Reason should guide impulse and emotionin each of us.... at all times. Reason is "The Head of the House"
Kerry is a Massachusetts 'dandy' who has doubtless been
circumcised with pinking shears.
His politics and demeanor are much like his manicure...
slick...polished and preened strictly for public approval.
A glib wordsmith he is, a knightly warrior he aint....
If he ever did rescue the king's maiden daughter, he
would not have done it for Chivalry ...nor even because it was the
right thing to do. He would have done it to win the king's daughter
.........and to latch onto his estate.
This terrorist thing upon us now is VERY huge.
It may not live up to Rudolph Steiner's 'War of All Against All'
but there definitely is a global religious Jihad/Crusade afoot and it is
also cosmic. It is the struggle between the forces of civilization ..........and Chaos itself.
Remember the 'Never Ending Story?' This drama is unfolding again."The 'Nothing'" approaches and there are two options left to us:1. Fight without quarter.2. Deny it and choose "peace at any price."I for one, choose the former because the latter is thesure recipe for "short term pleasure, long term pain."
Hairspray and a razor cuts somehow lose their meaning whenadorning a severed head.
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