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Re: [steiner] s'Kerry

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  • LilOleMissy@SBCglobal.net
    Thank you, Br. Ron! You have stated truth. Sheila Br. Ron wrote: This is just my opinion and good folks can disagree. Qabala is a wonderful spiritual tool
    Message 1 of 14 , Oct 14, 2004
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      Thank you, Br. Ron! You have stated truth.

      Sheila

      Br. Ron wrote:
       
      This is just my opinion and good folks can disagree.
       
      Qabala is a wonderful spiritual tool because it reveals
      the location of spiritual shadows.
       
      Let's apply this to American politics.
       
      John Kerry to be not only and opportunistic machine
      but a full blown traitor....both in the 70s and now.

      First, look into his face. It doesn't take a Cagliostro to see
      he only occasionally departs from the haunting image of 'just
      another genderless, talking head.'
       
      Clever?...Yes....to the point of demagoguery but more importantly
      he lacks that essential soul quality associated with a vulnerable
      conscience. Kerry seems blissfully free of both passion and heart,
      Bereft of any genuine 'fire in the belly' he lives up to the
      Qabalistic term
      'qliphoth'.....which is but a shell.

      Kerry gets his juice from professional victims and survives
      politically by simple negativity and doubt...by making all things
      pertaining to the US an "error."

      His opportunistic grandstanding in the Seventies torpedoed our
      "might for right" and served to lead to the wholesale
      slaughter of nearly a million Vietnamese after the war...to say
      nothing of setting up Pol Pot's evil rampage in Cambodia.

      Had we been truly the UNITED States in winning that conflict,
      there would have been far fewer human casualties and we would
      have established a bright bastion of freedom in Indochina.
      (A case in point is what we saw taking root this weekend in Afghanistan,
      sporting endless lines of men and women risking life and limb to get
      to vote...... for the first time ever!)

      Regardless of the rampant left wing cynicism, this war
      aint all just about money and oil. It is not even about Iraq or
      the Middle East. It's a cosmic power grab chronicled in the texts of
      every major religion,... albeit by different names.

      There are parasitic forces tempting us from our bravery
      and degrading our duty; our heavenly mandate of sacrifice and
      promulgation of  'Good' performed in manly and knightly ways.
      If this vampirism succeeds, all Life on Earth will cease.

      As a man, I see ridding the world of parasitic tyranny is a
      chivalrous duty. Chivalry is a religion not unlike the Samurai.
      But "Might for Right" is a creed grasped only by practitioners
      of TRUE self sacrificial Love, a concept for which the political left
      gives lip service but has absolutely no grasp.

      Kerry cannot win. ....He MUST NOT win.

      Fortunately, Americans are ultimately driven by an innate sense of right
      and wrong. I trust us to distinguish between the verbose, reflected specter
      of 'lunar light' in contrast to the real thing. True Beings of Light demonstrate
      Spirit and self reliance, not social dependency. They display the self generating
      Solar Light emanating from yes, the Sun of God.

      Remember King Arthur had an effeminate offspring like our slick
      friend. Mordred was massaged, oiled and pussified daily by his
      mother, Morgan LeFay. This lunar witch was Arthur's sister
      with whom he slept. Mordred, the incestual offspring of this union,
      ultimately brought down Arthur's solar kingdom which in truth was
      initiated by the Christos.

      This archetypal gender battle repeating itself once again
      on the stage of American and global politics. The I-Ching has a
      hexagram ('KUN...The Receptive...with a moving line at the top)
      which says:
          "In the top place the Yin (female) element should yield to the light.
          If it attempts to maintain a position to which it is not entitled
          and to rule instead of serving, it draws down on itself the anger
          of the strong. A struggle ensues in which it is overthrown,
          with injury, however, to both sides. Therefore, it is a sign
          that in unnatural contest both primal powers (Male and Female)
          suffer injury."

      This gender confusion of Yang in relation to Yin is symbolized in
      every religion including the story in Genesis with Adam disconnecting
      from his Reason..his Oversoul in order to follow Eve's impulsive Nature
      worship.

      This sounds sexist...but it isn't. Nor am I suggesting
      the masculine principle is somehow 'better' than the feminine.
      It's just that each has it's appropriate place within ourselves
      and within cosmic order.
      It simply means that Reason should guide impulse and emotion
      in each of us.... at all times. Reason is "The Head of the House"

      Kerry is a Massachusetts 'dandy' who has doubtless been
      circumcised with pinking shears.

      His politics and demeanor are much like his manicure...
      slick...polished and preened strictly for public approval.

      A glib wordsmith he is, a knightly warrior he aint....

      If he ever did rescue the king's maiden daughter, he
      would not have done it for Chivalry ...nor even because it was the
      right thing to do. He would have done it to win the king's daughter
      .........and to latch onto his estate.

      Behold Mordred!

      This terrorist thing upon us now is VERY huge.
      It may not live up to Rudolph Steiner's 'War of All Against All'
      but there definitely is a global religious Jihad/Crusade afoot and it is
      also cosmic. It is the struggle between the forces of civilization .....
      .....and Chaos itself.

      Remember the 'Never Ending Story?'  This drama is unfolding again.
      "The 'Nothing'" approaches and there are two options left to us:
      1. Fight without quarter.
      2. Deny it and choose "peace at any price."
       
      I for one, choose the former because the latter is the
      sure recipe for "short term pleasure, long term pain."

      Hairspray and a razor cuts somehow lose their meaning when
      adorning a severed head.

      Br. Ron


    • Social Artist
      My goodness, Br. Ron. You have some interesting points, and your exposition is certainly dramatic; however, it is my recollection that political discussions
      Message 2 of 14 , Oct 14, 2004
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        My goodness, Br. Ron. You have some interesting
        points, and your exposition is certainly dramatic;
        however, it is my recollection that political
        discussions in this forum were to be avoided. In the
        end, it seems to me that the scariest part of today's
        political landscape is the apathetic nature of the
        American people, who more and more spend the length of
        their days eating canned foods off of plastic plates
        in front of the television instead of raising their
        children and organizing social events with their
        neighbors. This is the reason a fellow like Kerry is
        up for the presidency. It's not as though the guy had
        to burn down the Reichstag.



        --- "Br. Ron" <rlloyd@...> wrote:

        >
        > This is just my opinion and good folks can disagree.
        >
        > Qabala is a wonderful spiritual tool because it
        > reveals
        > the location of spiritual shadows.
        >
        > Let's apply this to American politics.
        >
        > John Kerry to be not only and opportunistic machine
        > but a full blown traitor....both in the 70s and now.
        >
        >
        > First, look into his face. It doesn't take a
        > Cagliostro to see
        > he only occasionally departs from the haunting image
        > of 'just
        > another genderless, talking head.'
        >
        > Clever?...Yes....to the point of demagoguery but
        > more importantly
        > he lacks that essential soul quality associated with
        > a vulnerable
        > conscience. Kerry seems blissfully free of both
        > passion and heart,
        > Bereft of any genuine 'fire in the belly' he lives
        > up to the Qabalistic term
        > 'qliphoth'.....which is but a shell.
        >
        > Kerry gets his juice from professional victims and
        > survives
        > politically by simple negativity and doubt...by
        > making all things
        > pertaining to the US an "error."
        >
        > His opportunistic grandstanding in the Seventies
        > torpedoed our
        > "might for right" and served to lead to the
        > wholesale
        > slaughter of nearly a million Vietnamese after the
        > war...to say
        > nothing of setting up Pol Pot's evil rampage in
        > Cambodia.
        >
        > Had we been truly the UNITED States in winning that
        > conflict,
        > there would have been far fewer human casualties and
        > we would
        > have established a bright bastion of freedom in
        > Indochina.
        > (A case in point is what we saw taking root this
        > weekend in Afghanistan,
        > sporting endless lines of men and women risking life
        > and limb to get
        > to vote...... for the first time ever!)
        >
        > Regardless of the rampant left wing cynicism, this
        > war
        > aint all just about money and oil. It is not even
        > about Iraq or
        > the Middle East. It's a cosmic power grab chronicled
        > in the texts of
        > every major religion,... albeit by different names.
        >
        > There are parasitic forces tempting us from our
        > bravery
        > and degrading our duty; our heavenly mandate of
        > sacrifice and
        > promulgation of 'Good' performed in manly and
        > knightly ways.
        >
        > If this vampirism succeeds, all Life on Earth will
        > cease.
        >
        > As a man, I see ridding the world of parasitic
        > tyranny is a
        > chivalrous duty. Chivalry is a religion not unlike
        > the Samurai.
        > But "Might for Right" is a creed grasped only by
        > practitioners
        > of TRUE self sacrificial Love, a concept for which
        > the political left
        > gives lip service but has absolutely no grasp.
        >
        > Kerry cannot win. ....He MUST NOT win.
        >
        > Fortunately, Americans are ultimately driven by an
        > innate sense of right
        > and wrong. I trust us to distinguish between the
        > verbose, reflected specter
        > of 'lunar light' in contrast to the real thing. True
        > Beings of Light demonstrate
        > Spirit and self reliance, not social dependency.
        > They display the self generating
        > Solar Light emanating from yes, the Sun of God.
        >
        > Remember King Arthur had an effeminate offspring
        > like our slick
        > friend. Mordred was massaged, oiled and pussified
        > daily by his
        > mother, Morgan LeFay. This lunar witch was Arthur's
        > sister
        > with whom he slept. Mordred, the incestual offspring
        > of this union,
        > ultimately brought down Arthur's solar kingdom which
        > in truth was
        > initiated by the Christos.
        >
        > This archetypal gender battle repeating itself once
        > again
        > on the stage of American and global politics. The
        > I-Ching has a
        > hexagram ('KUN...The Receptive...with a moving line
        > at the top)
        > which says:
        > "In the top place the Yin (female) element
        > should yield to the light.
        > If it attempts to maintain a position to which
        > it is not entitled
        > and to rule instead of serving, it draws down on
        > itself the anger
        > of the strong. A struggle ensues in which it is
        > overthrown,
        > with injury, however, to both sides. Therefore,
        > it is a sign
        > that in unnatural contest both primal powers
        > (Male and Female)
        > suffer injury."
        >
        > This gender confusion of Yang in relation to Yin is
        > symbolized in
        > every religion including the story in Genesis with
        > Adam disconnecting
        > from his Reason..his Oversoul in order to follow
        > Eve's impulsive Nature
        > worship.
        >
        > This sounds sexist...but it isn't. Nor am I
        > suggesting
        > the masculine principle is somehow 'better' than the
        > feminine.
        > It's just that each has it's appropriate place
        > within ourselves
        > and within cosmic order.
        >
        > It simply means that Reason should guide impulse and
        > emotion
        > in each of us.... at all times. Reason is "The Head
        > of the House"
        >
        > Kerry is a Massachusetts 'dandy' who has doubtless
        > been
        > circumcised with pinking shears.
        >
        > His politics and demeanor are much like his
        > manicure...
        > slick...polished and preened strictly for public
        > approval.
        >
        > A glib wordsmith he is, a knightly warrior he
        > aint....
        >
        > If he ever did rescue the king's maiden daughter, he
        >
        > would not have done it for Chivalry ...nor even
        > because it was the
        > right thing to do. He would have done it to win the
        > king's daughter
        > .........and to latch onto his estate.
        >
        > Behold Mordred!
        >
        > This terrorist thing upon us now is VERY huge.
        > It may not live up to Rudolph Steiner's 'War of All
        > Against All'
        > but there definitely is a global religious
        > Jihad/Crusade afoot and it is
        > also cosmic. It is the struggle between the forces
        > of civilization .....
        > .....and Chaos itself.
        >
        > Remember the 'Never Ending Story?' This drama is
        > unfolding again.
        > "The 'Nothing'" approaches and there are two options
        > left to us:
        > 1. Fight without quarter.
        > 2. Deny it and choose "peace at any price."
        >
        > I for one, choose the former because the latter is
        > the
        > sure recipe for "short term pleasure, long term
        > pain."
        >
        > Hairspray and a razor cuts somehow lose their
        > meaning when
        > adorning a severed head.
        >
        > Br. Ron
        >




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      • Social Artist
        I pondered this following this afternoon and decided to put it on the forum. Per the third paragraph of this e-mail, if you have knowledge of instances when
        Message 3 of 14 , Oct 14, 2004
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          I pondered this following this afternoon and decided
          to put it on the forum. Per the third paragraph of
          this e-mail, if you have knowledge of instances when
          Steiner discussed the motivation for Jesus's weeping,
          I'd be most interested in learning of them.

          Whether or not the death of an innocent child is
          warranted in the hunt for the guilty is a matter of
          deepest concern for the person who truly values each
          individual's right to life. The laws of the United
          States were formed with an underlying belief that it
          is better a guilty man be set free than an innocent
          man be unjustly deprived of the rights guaranteed by
          our Constitution, the right to life most definitely
          included. At some point, a time must be found when
          humanity with a clear intellect, warmed by the beating
          heart and strengthened by a mighty will, will conquer
          without the destruction of human lives and homes.
          This will be a time when the power of gentle healing
          will replace the power of guns and bullets in subduing
          the blackest of motivations.

          I wonder if this is one of the reasons Jesus wept:
          the realization of the number of those who would be
          tortured and killed in His name through all these
          centuries. That is a cross to bear. Even the
          realization that such happenings are perhaps necessary
          in the course of this evolution would provide little
          comfort to the compassionate heart.

          -George



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        • Mathew Morrell
          I m always impressed by how Br Ron formulates his thoughts. Very poetic and thoughtful. Social_Artist made some good points as well. I too am waiting for the
          Message 4 of 14 , Oct 14, 2004
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            I'm always impressed by how Br Ron formulates his thoughts. Very
            poetic and thoughtful.

            Social_Artist made some good points as well. I too am waiting for
            the day when gentle healing, not bullets, is capable of subduing the
            blackest motivations. However I think that day is a long way off.
            True evil exists. True sociopathic personalities who have no regard
            for humanity walk among us. And they can't be subdued with "gentle
            healing," just as the Nazi's couldn't, or Genghis Khan. They only
            respect one thing. Power.

            Thank goodness the World War II generation had this knowingness
            within them. Had they not, Social Artist would be a lamp shade or
            he would be speaking German.


            Mathew Morrell
            www.kcpost.net
          • LilOleMissy@SBCglobal.net
            Mathew Morrell wrote: I m always impressed by how Br Ron formulates his thoughts. Very poetic and thoughtful. Social_Artist made some good points as well. I
            Message 5 of 14 , Oct 14, 2004
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              Mathew Morrell wrote:

              I'm always impressed by how Br Ron formulates his thoughts.  Very
              poetic and thoughtful.

              Social_Artist made some good points as well.  I too am waiting for
              the day when gentle healing, not bullets, is capable of subduing the
              blackest motivations.  However I think that day is a long way off. 
              True evil exists.  True sociopathic personalities who have no regard
              for humanity walk among us.  And they can't be subdued with "gentle
              healing," just as the Nazi's couldn't, or Genghis Khan.  They only
              respect one thing.  Power. 

              Thank goodness the World War II generation had this knowingness
              within them.  Had they not, Social Artist would be a lamp shade or
              he would be speaking German.    


              Mathew Morrell
              www.kcpost.net

              Interesting thoughts here and well expressed. I'm sitting in front of the TV as every American is while trying to balance my plastic tray of goodness knows WHAT can THAT "food" came out of, ignoring my children ["I don't care if you DO descend down into the Monterey Canyon in that Rov - just take your oceanography junk and lemme be, OK?!"], hiding from neighbors who, like me, of course lack any incentive to form neighborly groups, anyway, since all I want to do right now is concentrate on Steiner's warnings contained in his "Apocolyptic" Lectures to the Priests describing just these very times. Seems to me Steiner warned us to the effect that "scarcely 1/4th of the new millenium shall have passed before..." - oh, well, everyone can read it for themselves since as an American I can't leave the TV or my plastic tray of goodness-knows-what inedible gunk came out of that can - let alone...[yawn...] um - now WHAT is it about the name/word SOCIAL that reminds me of Socialism=Liberalism=Kerry? Heavens to Betsy - NOW I have to think! [shudder...] - maybe we SHOULD have Kerry as president and get his impending horror in the Asuras' name started NOW! Gee, it's SO difficult to know WHAT to do, but no doubt I'll be instructed in my
              duties
              by the wise council of - um - lack of freedom of thought?

              Cheers, since worse - uh - better, uh huh BETTER Kerry days are ahead! WOOOOHOOOO,

              Sheila








            • Social Artist
              True sociopaths not only respect power but also crave it and find strength wherever it is being unleashed, both from the left and the right. I m curious and
              Message 6 of 14 , Oct 15, 2004
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                True sociopaths not only respect power but also crave
                it and find strength wherever it is being unleashed,
                both from the left and the right.

                I'm curious and optomistic about the outcome of
                today's events. Realizing a democratic nation through
                the unleashing of awesome deadly force from an
                external party in a place that has no experience
                living within a democratic society is something that
                hasn't worked too well in recent memory. Though I do
                believe it's possible and have much hope and belief
                that it will happen, this battle is far from over.
                The outcome of these events is not yet sealed, and it
                would be foolish not to proceed with caution before
                announcing total victory with bravado.

                Overall, these conversations don't play well on the
                Internet. These dialogues would be different if we
                were able to have them face to face in the same room.
                Try as we may, it's easy for the written word to be
                taken out of context and misunderstood with shades of
                meaning lost in the translation. My last posts have
                been taken as an endorsement of Kerry, which was most
                certainly not intended. Were I known in this forum as
                more than another blip in the chat room, this would
                probably be evident, as it is to those who do know me.

                Even my choice of a screen name, Social Artist, was
                construed as a proof of support for the socialist
                system. I was endorsing social unity by suggesting
                the formation of neighborhood gatherings, but not
                socialist enconomic theory. Br. Ron stated that if
                the United States were truly united in the fight in
                Vietnam that there would have been a very different
                outcome. Along those lines, seeing that our country
                is not altogether united during this conflict should
                give one pause when considering the potential outcome
                this time around.

                I had intended to relate that if more people in this
                country were to work harder at thinking for themselves
                instead of abstaining from making difficult choices,
                then a candidate like John Kerry would quite likely
                not be as popular. Br. Ron's post is proof of this.
                He took the time to analyze what he had experienced
                and formed his own reasoned opinion on the matter. I
                haven't seen much reasoned analysis that makes a
                strong case for Kerry as a candidate. If there were
                more people who got their news analysis from
                individual sources such as Br. Ron than the singular
                John Stewart, I'd like to believe we'd be better off.

                Ridiculing other's expressions of thought in sloppy,
                sarcastic and cynical ways is a poor method of
                commanding respect and should be avoided in
                educational forums. Politics! It prompts us to
                behave in unusual ways.

                These are horrible and painful times with one
                worldwide fire fight after another over the past
                century. It's not a sign of fatal weakness for one to
                take time to connect with the pain in this world and
                respect those who are risking everything for a better
                way of life further down the line.

                In case there's any confusion, this is not intended as
                an endorsement of government sponsored healthcare.

                -George



                --- "LilOleMissy@..."
                <lilolemissy@...> wrote:


                ---------------------------------
                Mathew Morrell wrote:
                I'm always impressed by how Br Ron formulates his
                thoughts. Very
                poetic and thoughtful.

                Social_Artist made some good points as well. I too am
                waiting for
                the day when gentle healing, not bullets, is capable
                of subduing the
                blackest motivations. However I think that day is a
                long way off.
                True evil exists. True sociopathic personalities who
                have no regard
                for humanity walk among us. And they can't be subdued
                with "gentle
                healing," just as the Nazi's couldn't, or Genghis
                Khan. They only
                respect one thing. Power.

                Thank goodness the World War II generation had this
                knowingness
                within them. Had they not, Social Artist would be a
                lamp shade or
                he would be speaking German.


                Mathew Morrell
                www.kcpost.net

                Interesting thoughts here and well expressed. I'm
                sitting in front ofthe TV as every American is while
                trying to balance my plastic tray ofgoodness knows
                WHAT can THAT "food" came out of, ignoring my
                children["I don't care if you DO descend down into the
                Monterey Canyon in thatRov - just take your
                oceanography junk and lemme be, OK?!"], hidingfrom
                neighbors who, like me, of course lack any incentive
                to formneighborly groups, anyway, since all I want to
                do right now isconcentrate on Steiner's warnings
                contained in his "Apocolyptic"Lectures to the Priests
                describing just these very times. Seems to meSteiner
                warned us to the effect that "scarcely 1/4th of the
                newmillenium shall have passed before..." - oh, well,
                everyone can read itfor themselves since as an
                American I can't leave the TV or my plastictray of
                goodness-knows-what inedible gunk came out of that can
                - letalone...[yawn...] um - now WHAT is it about the
                name/word SOCIAL thatreminds me of
                Socialism=Liberalism=Kerry? Heavens to Betsy - NOW I
                haveto think! [shudder...] - maybe we SHOULD have
                Kerry as president andget his impending horror in the
                Asuras' name started NOW! Gee, it's SOdifficult to
                know WHAT to do, but no doubt I'll be instructed in my
                duties by the wise council of - um - lack of freedom
                of thought?

                Cheers, since worse - uh - better, uh huh BETTER Kerry
                days are ahead!WOOOOHOOOO,

                Sheila










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              • eyecueco@netscape.net
                ... So who are you calling a sociopath? This term covers a large continuum and gets thrown around a lot in and up on people inappropriately. For instance,
                Message 7 of 14 , Oct 15, 2004
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                  Social Artist <social_artist@...> wrote:

                  >True sociopaths not only respect power but also crave
                  >it and find strength wherever it is being unleashed,
                  >both from the left and the right.

                  So who are you calling a sociopath? This term covers
                  a large continuum and gets thrown around a lot in and
                  up on people inappropriately. For instance, Hitler was
                  not a sociopath, but Charlie Manson is.

                  >
                  >I'm curious and optomistic about the outcome of
                  >today's events.  Realizing a democratic nation through
                  >the unleashing of awesome deadly force from an
                  >external party in a place that has no experience
                  >living within a democratic society is something that
                  >hasn't worked too well in recent memory.


                  Guess you have not kept up with what is happening in Afganistan.
                  Kaul is no longer a capitol of silence and street beatings of women
                  for  not having their berka on straight, Girls are now going to school,
                  the soccer field there is now used for athletic games instead of public
                  executions (throats slit).

                  If you are only watching John Steward and or the MSM no wonder
                  you seem confused.

                  It is so very sad that there are so very few like Br. Ron.  So many
                  don't get it that we are in another world war.  What is especially
                  disappointing to me personally is to have discovered, since 9-11
                  that the mindset of so many who consider themselves anthroposophists
                  is that of left-wing socialism. Socialism is deadly to the developing
                  ego consciousness.
                   
                  We are not in the 6th epoch yet.
                  The conquering by the sword for the greater good is still a necessity
                  in these times, just as it was when Alexander unleased his
                  "awesome deadly force" across most of the known world, and
                  King Arthur unleased "awesome deadly force" throughout
                  Britain .

                  You might possibly consider reading something of Victor
                  David Hanson (victorhanson.com).   He knows a thing or two
                  about both the classic world, a lot about warfare, and has
                  something intelligent to say about the state of things today.
                  He's not an anthropop, but, it is interesting to discover that
                  he says essentially the same thing, from a secular voice,
                  that Johannes Walter Stein said, (i.e., that this confrontation
                  with the East at the end of the 20th Century) is a battle that
                  must be won if the world is to progress onward rather than fall
                  back into a tragic dark age.  

                  One of the sorriest points missed by the bleeding heart liberal in his
                  or her blinding, thought-stopping hatred for 'Dubya' is that the time
                  has come for the East to be brought into the 21st Century, and if the
                  current campaign against the Islamic terrorist, (which I am absolutely
                  convinced is the repetition of the Battle of Salamis predicted by Stein)
                  meets with failure, then the chance for the East to move on from tribal,
                  group ego consciousness will be lost, with the gravest of consequences
                  for the West and civilization in general.

                  It is really important for those who call themselves anthopops to remember
                  that these conflicts arise first in the higher worlds, and are then played
                  out down here below in this sad, broken domain.  It's not nice, it even
                  sucks, but, that's the game and the one that we are stuck in for a long
                  time to come. (Another reference to ponder is Trithemius and what he
                  tells us about what happens during the Time Reign of the various
                  archangels).

                  Paulina

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                • Social Artist
                  Pauline- I got the word sociopath from Mr. Morrell s posting. His words were: True sociopathic personalities who have no regard for humanity walk among us.
                  Message 8 of 14 , Oct 15, 2004
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                    Pauline-

                    I got the word "sociopath" from Mr. Morrell's posting.
                    His words were:

                    "True sociopathic personalities who have no regard for
                    humanity walk among us. And they can't be subdued
                    with "gentle healing," just as the Nazi's couldn't, or
                    Genghis Khan. They only respect one thing. Power."

                    I was not intending to contradict Mr. Morrell's
                    statements with my own by responding to it. As you
                    demonstrate, sociopath was not the best word which
                    could have been used in relation to the Nazis and
                    Genghis Khan.

                    I said specifically that I was "curious and optomistic
                    about today's events." I was not disregarding the
                    current state of affairs in Afganistan by stating that
                    we are not yet out of the woods. Recent history has
                    shown that our task is difficult, which is something
                    we've all been saying in one form or another. Stating
                    that we have our work cut out for us is not the same
                    as saying we're doomed to failure or that the work
                    isn't worthy of completion.

                    I don't appreciate being directly attacked on what I
                    have said without a full understanding of my position.
                    In emphasizing caution, I am not encouraging defeat
                    or retreat in this struggle.

                    I'm saddened to see that little can come in the way of
                    elevated discourse in regard to current events in this
                    forum. I don't believe that I've contradicted Br.
                    Ron's statements in any way by my postings, and yet
                    others see fit to attack me for perceived views that I
                    do not hold. It is a wise thing to be careful to be
                    sure the attacks we make on one another are reasoned
                    and justified and not a reaction to a perceived threat
                    that may not exist.

                    I enjoy experiencing other people's passions and
                    positions on these serious issues. I'm thankful
                    you've opened yourselves up to me without knowing much
                    about me at all, allowing me to see where you're
                    coming from. Some of us are stuck in our good ways
                    and have a tendency to get a little worked up, but I
                    value what I read on the site and work to grasp what
                    people are writing as best I can, even when I'm not
                    sure I completely understand or agree with everything
                    that I'm reading, and even when the responses I
                    receive to my posts are intended to be hurtful or
                    demeaning in a way that my original posts were not. I
                    am convinced that some of the nastier tones in the
                    broader dialogue could have been avoided without
                    losing the intended point.

                    After all, I'm not the guy on the street shouting
                    antiwar statements at the rally of the Socialist
                    Party. Despite what some have insinuated, I'm really
                    not. I'm just struggling to learn what other's
                    opinions are on these matters and explore new sources
                    of information. I'm coming to the forum as an eager
                    student, not an electronic terrorist.

                    I hope I've made a little sense through all this.
                    George




                    > >I'm curious and optomistic about the outcome of
                    > >today's events. �Realizing a democratic nation
                    > through
                    > >the unleashing of awesome deadly force from an
                    > >external party in a place that has no experience
                    > >living within a democratic society is something
                    > that
                    > >hasn't worked too well in recent memory.
                    >
                    >
                    > Guess you have not kept up with what is happening in
                    > Afganistan.
                    > Kaul is no longer a capitol of silence and street
                    > beatings of women
                    > for� not having their berka on straight, Girls are
                    > now going to school,
                    > the soccer field there is now used for athletic
                    > games instead of public
                    > executions (throats slit).
                    >
                    > If you are only watching John Steward and or the MSM
                    > no wonder
                    > you seem confused.
                    >
                    > It is so very sad that there are so very few like
                    > Br. Ron. �So many
                    > don't get it that we are in another world war. �What
                    > is especially
                    > disappointing to me personally is to have
                    > discovered, since 9-11
                    > that the mindset of so many who consider themselves
                    > anthroposophists
                    > is that of left-wing socialism. Socialism is deadly
                    > to the developing
                    > ego consciousness.
                    > �
                    > We are not in the 6th epoch yet.
                    > The conquering by the sword for the greater good is
                    > still a necessity
                    > in these times, just as it was when Alexander
                    > unleased his
                    > "awesome deadly force" across most of the known
                    > world, and
                    > King Arthur unleased "awesome deadly force"
                    > throughout
                    > Britain .
                    >
                    > You might possibly consider reading something of
                    > Victor
                    > David Hanson (victorhanson.com). � He knows a thing
                    > or two
                    > about both the classic world, a lot about warfare,
                    > and has
                    > something intelligent to say about the state of
                    > things today.
                    > He's not an anthropop, but, it is interesting to
                    > discover that
                    > he says essentially the same thing, from a secular
                    > voice,
                    > that Johannes Walter Stein said, (i.e., that this
                    > confrontation
                    > with the East at the end of the 20th Century) is a
                    > battle that
                    > must be won if the world is to progress onward
                    > rather than fall
                    > back into a tragic dark age. �
                    >
                    > One of the sorriest points missed by the bleeding
                    > heart liberal in his
                    > or her blinding, thought-stopping hatred for
                    > 'Dubya' is that the time
                    > has come for the East to be brought into the 21st
                    > Century, and if the
                    > current campaign against the Islamic terrorist,
                    > (which I am absolutely
                    > convinced is the repetition of the Battle of Salamis
                    > predicted by Stein)
                    > meets with failure, then the chance for the East to
                    > move on from tribal,
                    > group ego consciousness will be lost, with the
                    > gravest of consequences
                    > for the West and civilization in general.
                    >
                    > It is really important for those who call themselves
                    > anthopops to remember
                    > that these conflicts arise first in the higher
                    > worlds, and are then played
                    > out down here below in this sad, broken domain.
                    > �It's not nice, it even
                    > sucks, but, that's the game and the one that we are
                    > stuck in for a long
                    > time to come. (Another reference to ponder is
                    > Trithemius and what he
                    > tells us about what happens during the Time Reign of
                    > the various
                    > archangels).
                    >
                    > Paulina
                    >
                    >
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                    > As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at
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                    >




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                  • DoctorStarman@aol.com
                    In a message dated 10/14/2004 5:54:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ... ******* I know of the most famous case. The shortest verse of the Bible is Jesus wept
                    Message 9 of 14 , Oct 18, 2004
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                      In a message dated 10/14/2004 5:54:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, social_artist@... writes:

                      I pondered this following this afternoon and decided
                      to put it on the forum.  Per the third paragraph of
                      this e-mail, if you have knowledge of instances when
                      Steiner discussed the motivation for Jesus's weeping,
                      I'd be most interested in learning of them.


                      ******* I know of the most famous case. The shortest verse of the Bible is "Jesus wept" ----at the raising of Lazarus. It was said that way to draw attention to the fact that the Christ was doing something special: through his love for the man Lazarus, he was initiating him, just as the initiates in olden times used the power of love to keep a candidate alive as they separated his etheric body from his physical one, in memory of which the initiate was afterwards known as "the Loved One." This man, Lazarus, later became the apostle John, always referred to as the disciple the Lord "loved."

                      -starman
                      www.DrStarman.net
                    • DoctorStarman@aol.com
                      ... *******Well, my memory goes back to Japan in 1945. I d say the US did a pretty good job of transforming that completely undemocratic nation after using
                      Message 10 of 14 , Oct 18, 2004
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                        social_artist@... writes:
                        True sociopaths not only respect power but also crave
                        it and find strength wherever it is being unleashed,
                        both from the left and the right.
                        I'm curious and optomistic about the outcome of
                        today's events.  Realizing a democratic nation through
                        the unleashing of awesome deadly force from an
                        external party in a place that has no experience
                        living within a democratic society is something that
                        hasn't worked too well in recent memory...


                        *******Well, my memory goes back to Japan in 1945. I'd say the US did a pretty good job of transforming that completely undemocratic nation after using deadly force to overwhelm it. Its women, for instance, had as little freedom as those in Afghanistan and Iraq did until this year.

                           I think we need to remember that freedom is the "zeitgeist" or spirit of the age, being able to act freely out of your intuition of the right thing to do. Even if group-souls of nations have no tradition of freedom of religion, self-government, etc., the yearning of all human beings in our time is to be free, and the Zeitgeist is far more powerful than the Archangels of each country. If we work with that yearning, give people the means to determine their own lives,  it will succeed sooner or later.


                            I'dsay we're at the start of a Third World War the past 3 years, one that will last at least as long as the Cold War, a generation or two. But as long as we stay on the side of peoples' demand for freedom, we'll win.
                        -starman
                        www.DrStarman.net
                      • DoctorStarman@aol.com
                        ... *******It s the reason why I have not been very active with the Society in the US, and not at all with the Social Science section, despite being a
                        Message 11 of 14 , Oct 18, 2004
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                          >I'm curious and optomistic about the outcome of
                          >today's events.  Realizing a democratic nation through
                          >the unleashing of awesome deadly force from an
                          >external party in a place that has no experience
                          >living within a democratic society is something that
                          >hasn't worked too well in recent memory.

                          eyecueco@... writes:
                          Guess you have not kept up with what is happening in Afganistan.
                          Kaul is no longer a capitol of silence and street beatings of women
                          for  not having their berka on straight, Girls are now going to school,
                          the soccer field there is now used for athletic games instead of public
                          executions (throats slit).
                          If you are only watching John Steward and or the MSM no wonder
                          you seem confused.
                          It is so very sad that there are so very few like Br. Ron.  So many
                          don't get it that we are in another world war.  What is especially
                          disappointing to me personally is to have discovered, since 9-11
                          that the mindset of so many who consider themselves anthroposophists
                          is that of left-wing socialism. Socialism is deadly to the developing
                          ego consciousness....


                          *******It's the reason why I have not been very active with the Society in the US, and not at all with the Social Science section, despite being a professor of the social sciences: the leftist bias. Socialism is a materialistic-thought-based illusion that anyone on the spiritual path must see through eventually. That so many anthroposophists were rabid leftists was depressing to me when I first found it to be so in the 1980s, and only showed me that they had not really gotten anywhere on the Path yet.



                          You might possibly consider reading something of Victor
                          David Hanson (victorhanson.com).  He knows a thing or two
                          about both the classic world, a lot about warfare, and  has
                          something intelligent to say about the state of things today.
                          He's not an anthropop, but, it is interesting to discover that
                          he says essentially the same thing, from a secular voice,
                          that Johannes Walter Stein said,  (i.e., that this confrontation
                          with the East at the end of the 20th Century) is a battle that
                          must be won if the world is to progress onward rather than fall
                          back into a tragic dark age. 
                          One  of the sorriest points missed by the bleeding heart liberal in his
                          or her blinding,  thought-stopping hatred for 'Dubya' is that the time
                          has come for the East to be brought into the 21st Century, and if the
                          current campaign against the Islamic terrorist, (which I am absolutely 
                          convinced is the repetition of the Battle of Salamis predicted by Stein)
                          meets with failure, then the chance for the East to move on from tribal,
                          group ego consciousness will be lost, with the gravest of consequences
                          for the West and civilization in general.
                          It is really important for those who call themselves anthopops to remember
                          that these conflicts arise first in the higher worlds, and are then played
                          out down here below in this sad, broken domain.  It's not nice, it even
                          sucks, but, that's the game and the one that we are stuck in for a long
                          time to come.  (Another reference to ponder is Trithemius and what he
                          tells us about what happens during the Time Reign of the various
                          archangels).
                          Paulina


                          ********As a matter of fact, by Thithemius von Spondheim's 343-year cycles (which Steiner pointed to), a replay or repeat of the Battle of Salamis, which is to say a catclysmic confrontation between the inividuality-denying East and the individual-affirming West, was forecast for either Sept. 2000 or Sept. 2001, depending how you calculate.
                          -starman
                          www.DrStarman.net
                        • DoctorStarman@aol.com
                          In a message dated 10/14/2004 5:44:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ... *******Well, it s election time, and Steiner did have a lot to say about the practical
                          Message 12 of 14 , Oct 18, 2004
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                            In a message dated 10/14/2004 5:44:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, social_artist@... writes:


                            My goodness, Br. Ron.  You have some interesting
                            points, and your exposition is certainly dramatic;
                            however, it is my recollection that political
                            discussions in this forum were to be avoided.  In the
                            end, it seems to me that the scariest part of today's
                            political landscape is the apathetic nature of the
                            American people, who more and more spend the length of
                            their days eating canned foods off of plastic plates
                            in front of the television instead of raising their
                            children and organizing social events with their
                            neighbors.  This is the reason a fellow like Kerry is
                            up for the presidency.  It's not as though the guy had
                            to burn down the Reichstag.


                            *******Well, it's election time, and Steiner did have a lot to say about the practical world of organizing society. I just fear that allowing political discussions will degenerate into arguments and, as they say, creat "much heat but little light."

                                It's amazing how people studying the same material can so easily come to the conclusion that it supports their opinion that one of two candidates is the Devil, while others say the exact same thing is equally clear about his opponent! It all only shows that people haven't really digested the teaching about the Mystery of Evil, that there are two devils. Of any two candidates, I'm sure a case could be made how either of them would advance the cause of evil, because there are two opposite causes of evil.

                            -starman
                            www.DrStarman.net
                          • Renee Lattimore
                            Thanks for giving such a eloquent message. On the eve of this election, I have confidence that right will win. Renee Lattimore Br. Ron
                            Message 13 of 14 , Nov 1, 2004
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                              Thanks for giving such a eloquent message.  On the eve of this election, I have confidence that right will win.
                               
                              Renee Lattimore

                              "Br. Ron" <rlloyd@...> wrote:
                               
                              This is just my opinion and good folks can disagree.
                               
                              Qabala is a wonderful spiritual tool because it reveals
                              the location of spiritual shadows.
                               
                              Let's apply this to American politics.
                               
                              John Kerry to be not only and opportunistic machine
                              but a full blown traitor....both in the 70s and now.

                              First, look into his face. It doesn't take a Cagliostro to see
                              he only occasionally departs from the haunting image of 'just
                              another genderless, talking head.'
                               
                              Clever?...Yes....to the point of demagoguery but more importantly
                              he lacks that essential soul quality associated with a vulnerable
                              conscience. Kerry seems blissfully free of both passion and heart,
                              Bereft of any genuine 'fire in the belly' he lives up to the
                              Qabalistic term
                              'qliphoth'.....which is but a shell.

                              Kerry gets his juice from professional victims and survives
                              politically by simple negativity and doubt...by making all things
                              pertaining to the US an "error."

                              His opportunistic grandstanding in the Seventies torpedoed our
                              "might for right" and served to lead to the wholesale
                              slaughter of nearly a million Vietnamese after the war...to say
                              nothing of setting up Pol Pot's evil rampage in Cambodia.

                              Had we been truly the UNITED States in winning that conflict,
                              there would have been far fewer human casualties and we would
                              have established a bright bastion of freedom in Indochina.
                              (A case in point is what we saw taking root this weekend in Afghanistan,
                              sporting endless lines of men and women risking life and limb to get
                              to vote...... for the first time ever!)

                              Regardless of the rampant left wing cynicism, this war
                              aint all just about money and oil. It is not even about Iraq or
                              the Middle East. It's a cosmic power grab chronicled in the texts of
                              every major religion,... albeit by different names.

                              There are parasitic forces tempting us from our bravery
                              and degrading our duty; our heavenly mandate of sacrifice and
                              promulgation of  'Good' performed in manly and knightly ways.
                              If this vampirism succeeds, all Life on Earth will cease.

                              As a man, I see ridding the world of parasitic tyranny is a
                              chivalrous duty. Chivalry is a religion not unlike the Samurai.
                              But "Might for Right" is a creed grasped only by practitioners
                              of TRUE self sacrificial Love, a concept for which the political left
                              gives lip service but has absolutely no grasp.

                              Kerry cannot win. ....He MUST NOT win.

                              Fortunately, Americans are ultimately driven by an innate sense of right
                              and wrong. I trust us to distinguish between the verbose, reflected specter
                              of 'lunar light' in contrast to the real thing. True Beings of Light demonstrate
                              Spirit and self reliance, not social dependency. They display the self generating
                              Solar Light emanating from yes, the Sun of God.

                              Remember King Arthur had an effeminate offspring like our slick
                              friend. Mordred was massaged, oiled and pussified daily by his
                              mother, Morgan LeFay. This lunar witch was Arthur's sister
                              with whom he slept. Mordred, the incestual offspring of this union,
                              ultimately brought down Arthur's solar kingdom which in truth was
                              initiated by the Christos.

                              This archetypal gender battle repeating itself once again
                              on the stage of American and global politics. The I-Ching has a
                              hexagram ('KUN...The Receptive...with a moving line at the top)
                              which says:
                                  "In the top place the Yin (female) element should yield to the light.
                                  If it attempts to maintain a position to which it is not entitled
                                  and to rule instead of serving, it draws down on itself the anger
                                  of the strong. A struggle ensues in which it is overthrown,
                                  with injury, however, to both sides. Therefore, it is a sign
                                  that in unnatural contest both primal powers (Male and Female)
                                  suffer injury."

                              This gender confusion of Yang in relation to Yin is symbolized in
                              every religion including the story in Genesis with Adam disconnecting
                              from his Reason..his Oversoul in order to follow Eve's impulsive Nature
                              worship.

                              This sounds sexist...but it isn't. Nor am I suggesting
                              the masculine principle is somehow 'better' than the feminine.
                              It's just that each has it's appropriate place within ourselves
                              and within cosmic order.
                              It simply means that Reason should guide impulse and emotion
                              in each of us.... at all times. Reason is "The Head of the House"

                              Kerry is a Massachusetts 'dandy' who has doubtless been
                              circumcised with pinking shears.

                              His politics and demeanor are much like his manicure...
                              slick...polished and preened strictly for public approval.

                              A glib wordsmith he is, a knightly warrior he aint....

                              If he ever did rescue the king's maiden daughter, he
                              would not have done it for Chivalry ...nor even because it was the
                              right thing to do. He would have done it to win the king's daughter
                              .........and to latch onto his estate.

                              Behold Mordred!

                              This terrorist thing upon us now is VERY huge.
                              It may not live up to Rudolph Steiner's 'War of All Against All'
                              but there definitely is a global religious Jihad/Crusade afoot and it is
                              also cosmic. It is the struggle between the forces of civilization .....
                              .....and Chaos itself.

                              Remember the 'Never Ending Story?'  This drama is unfolding again.
                              "The 'Nothing'" approaches and there are two options left to us:
                              1. Fight without quarter.
                              2. Deny it and choose "peace at any price."
                               
                              I for one, choose the former because the latter is the
                              sure recipe for "short term pleasure, long term pain."

                              Hairspray and a razor cuts somehow lose their meaning when
                              adorning a severed head.

                              Br. Ron


                              Post to steiner@egroups.comSearch the archives of the group at:
                              http://www.esotericlinks.com/egroupsearch.html

                              Recommended books by Rudolf Steiner at:
                              http://www.esotericlinks.com/steinerbooks.html

                              ommended books by Rudolf Steiner at:
                              http://www.esotericlinks.com/steinerbooks.html





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