Re: [steiner] horoscope questions
- zwalker@... writes:
Thank you so much for your response! We are in agreement about many things. At least to start off with. I came to astrology first, then Steiner. I seemed to have had my own inner experience from the beginning in astrology. Somehow I just knew the planets were the homes of the gods. It was much more than just calculations and numbers. I developed my own “system” based on my own intuition….and have like you, been helped by what I find in RS’s writings. While there is still much ahrimanic and luciferic influence in how astrology is practiced today, that does not mean astrology itself is not in the process of evolution, and cannot serve the world. That’s how I see it, anyway. I use primarily Tropical astrology for readings also. Sometimes someone will ask for a Sidereal reading (calling it “anthroposophical”!!!!!!) and sometimes that really works well, in that it helps the person. Mostly the Tropical system “works”.
>> Did you ever read , “The Moment of Astrology” by Geoffrey Cornelius, an English astrologer? Very useful. He demonstrates how astrology will never be quantified scientifically. He says something quite mysterious happens, or can happen, between an astrologer, a client and a chart…..and the chart does not even have to be correct! That has been my experience. My overall goal is to be of help to those to come to me. I don’t know how it works. But I see that astrology can be a channel for people to awaken to spirit. And that seems very useful.
******I haven't read it, but he's right.
>> It is so sad to me that so many anthroposophists are so rigid in their thinking, so sure of themselves (in the face of the Great Mystery of Life), and use Steiner’s words like bricks- dead, cold bricks- to build "walls"………… instead of bridges. But c’est la vie.
********Not all do. Compare the "scientific" head-oriented ones to the artistic ones, say the eurythmists. Have you ever studied the planets and signs through their eurythmy gestures? But you are all too correct that many anthroposophists take up spiritual science with just logic, logic, logic, and kill their own intuitive senses. Then they resent others who have them. I think the Theosophists were too right-brained, as we would say today, and Steiner lectured the way he did in the early days to ground them. People really should not read too many lectures of Steiner's, but rather read them when there's something practical they can do with the knowledge. Remember he didn't want them written down. People who read them will go off zealously denouncing Yoga, for instance, with little or no experience of it, condemning an abstraction. I know a lady who had vivid psychic and prophetic dreams and demonstrated them to anthropops who were saying like rigid Freudians that all dreams are just echoes of daily life and therefore unimportant. They refused to acknowledge her demonstartions because their dogma said it couldn't be----dogma which, by the way, they got from reading one slice of Steiner and overlooking his many other indications.
>> I am presently reading Vreede again and it seems to me that she, and Steiner, hint at the possibility of a coming new astrology. After all, they wrote in the early part of the last century. Much has happened since then. After WWII many souls incarnated who seemed to have a spiritual connection from the get-go. We have to take what Steiner said, do what Steiner said- and then work from our own thinking, our own intuition. What Willi Sucher began, what Robert Powell and others have moved forward is courageous and absolutely essential. I don’t think we can just rest on “what Rudolf Steiner said”.
*******No real spiritual scientist would.
>> Thanks for the comments on the difference between the spiritual influence of the stars and the visible stars. I hadn’t made that connection. I do have a thought about 1414 being the beginning of the Piscean Age. I got this from studying with Willie Bento, who studied 10 years with Willi Sucher (and there was lots that did not make it into Sucher’s books). The work of the Archai, Spirits of the Age--- home of Michael (for now)--- have a 1199 year cycle AFTER the commencement of the astrological age. The Piscean Age began 215 AD (something like that)- it is pure astronomy, a matter of numbers. But the Archai – we’re talking Venus here- have this 1199 year cycle. It comes from the 8 year cycle of Venus’ conjunctions with the Sun. You know that each 8 years Venus comes back to roughly the spot the cycle began (after 5 superior and inferior conjunctions with the Sun). But not exactly. And if we wait til she comes back "normal" exactly….it is 1199 years. This “gap” goes through the zodiac- almost precisely 100 years per sign (12 x 100= 1199 + 1). The Archai apparently absorb something in their journey through the zodiac and then distribute something after the 1199 years. 215 AD plus 1199 = 1414 AD. This begins what is called the " Cultural Age of Pisces. " Same with all the Ages- there are these 2 dates 1199 years apart. It’s beautiful really, don’t you think?
******Yes, and it gives us just a glimpse of what's really involved in understanding the intersecting cycles of the spiritual and astral worlds.
>> So I get it now that the Sun is influenced by Pisces at present- and that is a non observable phenomenon (except by inner perception). How do you use that info? Not in readings if you use tropical? Where does it mean something? You said you experience something shift then. But how is it useful? It is quite exciting that you have these hand drawn pictures and I, for one, appreciate greatly your sharing this.
*******It explains how you can sense Pisces traits or Aquarius traits in a person without calculating a horoscope for them, and why, even when one is done, there may be no planets found in Pisces or Aquarius. And that's what we're striving for, direct perception, not calculation.
>> I have found –and I think this is rather astounding- that astrology can be a vehicle for turning people on to Steiner! When I teach astrology, it is my own thing…. and yet I feel my underlying goal is to awaken others to the great benefit of Rudolf Steiner’s ideas.
I find tremendous “hints” to the future of astrology in Steiner’s books- particularly (for me right now) " Man, Hieroglyph of the Universe." If we could but figure out what he was pointing us to…..it could be incredible! I mentioned before the 3 planes of thinking, feeling, willing – and how they show up in the zodiac. Do you have any thoughts, intuitions, insights about this? Perhaps you have places where you are working out the hints…… That seems to me to be the work for us today. What do you think?
*******We'll start with thinking. The other two will come later.
PS: thanks for the pictures of the sky- I cannot imagine in my wildest dreams how you draw that on your computer!!! Always good to see.
*******Well, I use Microsoft Paint and artistic feeling. I've had some 15 years of practice with the former, and 500 years of the latter. ;->