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A question on the signs

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  • Pierre Gringiore
    Chantal wrote: Question: I have seen the drawings of all the signs of the zodiac before and am left wondering. What do they mean? Dr Starman replied: I have
    Message 1 of 4 , Nov 3, 2003
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      Chantal wrote:
      Question:  I have seen the drawings of all the signs of the zodiac before and am left wondering.  What do they mean? 
       
      Dr Starman replied:
      I have the original sketches with his notations in German on them. I believe Franky the eurythmist here also has them. We could take the zodiac drawings and work with what they are supposed to represent once each month if people are interested.
      ***********
       
      Firstly let me thank Dr Starman for his recent response to my question about planetary relationships.  Anyone who is working with 'Cosmic and Human Thought' as I am will find much in it that is useful.  I would like to brood a little before commenting further.
       
      I would also be interested -- if it is at all possible -- in seeing the original sketches for the zodiac drawings.  I have to admit that I find the sketches by Imma Von Eckhardstein to be a little unclear in their meaning.  For example the current sign, Libra, has a thin band between the sun and the cross -- this gives the impression of being a wave coming in on a shore.  If this is so, it would imply that the four elements have been included in the image -- but I cannot be certain.  The content of many of the other images is equally unclear.
    • DRStarman2001@aol.com
      In a message dated 11/3/2003 1:30:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... *******Well, the original indications to Imma von Eckherdstein are of course i n German, so
      Message 2 of 4 , Nov 20, 2003
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        In a message dated 11/3/2003 1:30:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, gringoire@... writes:

        Chantal wrote:
        Question:  I have seen the drawings of all the signs of the zodiac before and am left wondering.  What do they mean? 

        Dr Starman replied:
        I have the original sketches with his notations in German on them. I believe Franky the eurythmist here also has them. We could take the zodiac drawings and work with what they are supposed to represent once each month if people are interested.

        ***********
         
        Firstly let me thank Dr Starman for his recent response to my question about planetary relationships.  Anyone who is working with 'Cosmic and Human Thought' as I am will find much in it that is useful.  I would like to brood a little before commenting further.
         
        I would also be interested -- if it is at all possible -- in seeing the original sketches for the zodiac drawings.  I have to admit that I find the sketches by Imma Von Eckhardstein to be a little unclear in their meaning.  For example the current sign, Libra, has a thin band between the sun and the cross -- this gives the impression of being a wave coming in on a shore.  If this is so, it would imply that the four elements have been included in the image -- but I cannot be certain.  The content of many of the other images is equally unclear.


        *******Well, the original indications to Imma von Eckherdstein are of course in German, so I'd have to translate them for us to work with them---unless someone else would like to volunteer. ;->
           . They are pictures of stages in the evolution of the World and Man as revealed in occult history. Steiner described this sequence in several lectures, for instance in Lecture 7 of Egyptian Myths and Mysteries (Sept. 9, 1908). The first physical appearance of the human body was a sort of fish-like being; an early stage of it was called the Water-Man. It was unisexual until the stage of the Skorpion was reached.

        Starman
        http://www.DrStarman.net
      • eyecueco@netscape.net
        ... The translation of the 1912-13 Calendar of the Soul is now available from AP for $30.00. The origin of both Calendar of the Soul and the drawings is
        Message 3 of 4 , Nov 20, 2003
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          DRStarman2001@... wrote:


          >*******Well, the original indications to Imma von Eckherdstein are of course i
          >n German, so I'd have to translate them for us to work with them---unless
          >someone else would like to volunteer. ;->



          The translation of the 1912-13 Calendar of the Soul is now available from AP for $30.00.
          The origin of both Calendar of the Soul and the drawings is discussed in the AP Holiday Catalog on page 14-15.


          >   . They are pictures of stages in the evolution of the World and Man as
          >revealed in occult history. Steiner described this sequence in several lectures,
          >for instance in Lecture 7 of Egyptian Myths and Mysteries (Sept. 9, 1908). The
          >first physical appearance of the human body was a sort of fish-like being; an
          >early stage of it was called the Water-Man. It was unisexual until the stage
          >of the Skorpion was reached.
          >
          >Starman


          Actually, it seems the idea for the Calendar originated with Marie von Sivers
          and Imma von Eckhardstein in 1911 when they were on vacation in Portorose.
          According to the write up on pags14-15, they presented the idea to Steiner
          and von Eckhardstein was "given the task of illustrating the calendar", "following
          Steiner's indications for new monthly zodiac images, as well as for other images".
          "She was also advised to meditate each morning on the rising sun" in order to
          come up with illustrations.

          After reading this I'm not so sure I see these drawings being "pictures of
          stages in the evolution of the World and Man" so much as arising from this
          woman's predawn activity? Was she an initiate, or just inspired by RS?

          Paulina





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        • DRStarman2001@aol.com
          eyecueco@netscape.net writes: ... *******No, if you read Steiner s indications and Eckherdstein s recollection of them, as published in the Beträge zur
          Message 4 of 4 , Nov 21, 2003
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            eyecueco@... writes:


            The translation of the 1912-13 Calendar of the Soul is now available from AP for $30.00.
            The origin of both Calendar of the Soul and the drawings is discussed in the  AP Holiday Catalog on page 14-15.

            *******That's interesting, I'll have to see what's in it.





            > ******* They are pictures of stages in the evolution of the World and Man as
            >revealed in occult history. Steiner described this sequence in several lectures,
            >for instance in Lecture 7 of Egyptian Myths and Mysteries (Sept. 9, 1908). The
            >first physical appearance of the human body was a sort of fish-like being; an
            >early stage of it was called the Water-Man. It was unisexual until the stage
            >of the Skorpion was reached.


            >>Actually, it seems the idea for the Calendar originated with Marie von Sivers
            and Imma von Eckhardstein in 1911 when they were on vacation in Portorose. 
            According to the write up on pags14-15, they presented the idea to Steiner
            and von Eckhardstein was "given the task of illustrating the calendar", "following
            Steiner's indications for new monthly zodiac images, as well as for other images".
            "She was also advised to meditate each morning on the rising sun"  in order to
            come up with illustrations.
            After reading this I'm not so sure I see these drawings being "pictures of
            stages in the evolution of the World and Man" so much as arising from this
            woman's predawn activity?


            *******No, if you read Steiner's indications and Eckherdstein's recollection of them, as published in the "Beträge zur Rudolf Steiner Gesamtausgabe" in 1972, he said explicitly that "each picture stands for one Cosmic Epoch" ("Jedes Bild steht da fur eine kosmiche Epoche.")

               If we study them together, I'll put the sketches and handwritten notes here and translate the indications for each. It then becomes very clear----for instance, the first beginning of the Earth as described in Cosmic Memory and An Outline of Occult Science is when the egg-shaped astral bodies of men emerge out of "Mother Night" (the "pralaya" between the Ancient Moon and the Earth "manvantara") and are brought to a dark, warm etheric earth-sphere. To give a quick approximate translation of Steiner's handwritten indications for the Fishes: "It begins with the Fish. The Earth-seeds step out of the World-Sleep into dark warmth."


               Then he specifically identifies some images as being the Moon-recapitulation, Sun-recapitulation, etc.

               I doubt the idea "originated" as described in that write-up: more likely Steiner was already at work on the Calendar, and Marie and Imma suggested it should include a new version of the 12 zodiac signs and Steiner, as always, incorporated will-impulses coming from co-workers into what he was doing. His instructions to the artist to meditate on the rising sun is surely to sense what cosmic influences the sun is absorbing each day, just as you sense what "sign" the Moon is in each night.

            Dr. Starman
            http://www.DrStarman.net
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