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RE: [steiner] Music is the art of the future

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  • LilOleMissy
    Dear Rick and All, ACK! Rick, that s like asking me to find a needle in a haystack! :) It seems to me Steiner mentions this about music and other arts perhaps
    Message 1 of 15 , Sep 12, 2003
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      Dear Rick and All,

      ACK! Rick, that's like asking me to find a needle in a haystack! :) It
      seems to me Steiner mentions this about music and other arts perhaps in his
      "The Mission of Art" or "Art in the Light of Mystery Wisdom" but even here,
      I may have gotten the titles of these lectures wrong. I've been able to
      download [FREE, too! :)] many wonderful articles, lectures and books from
      the online electronic library at http://www.elib.com/Steiner and you might
      want to take a look. I don't remember about rhythm being the science of the
      future, which is no surprise, given the enormous wealth of his works! With
      a red face, I often try to excuse myself for ignorance on all too many
      issues! :) But think about rhythm [she says to herself and others...] - we
      have rhythm in the beating of our hearts, our pulse and on and on, so it
      certainly is a very critical part of us and the Universe! I wasn't
      surprised the other day to come across a newspaper article of "tone" being
      heard from a black hole, and I wondered if that might possibly be what
      Steiner and others call The Music of the Spheres? Regardless, it's
      wonderful you play drums, and have your background in piano and trumpet:
      rhythm, touch and breath plus much else.

      Now where in Canada are you? You have my curiousity after mentioning
      Wikwemikong unceaded First Nation! Is it Indian? For awhile, I lived on a
      Mohawk Reservation along the St. Lawrence - the St. Regis - and it was
      absolutely fascinating to me!!!! I loved Canada very much, but find British
      Columbia warmer and now California boiling! :)

      Cheers!

      Sheila
      >
      > Dear Sheila, and Folks;
      >
      > Yes, I do remember Steiner saying that, although I also vaguely
      > remember that his view of its evolution was surprising. Sheila, maybe
      > you could look into it in your collection; I have reviewed a few of
      > his cycles, but passed them on to interested (hopefully) musicaal
      > compatriots at the time.
      >
      > Also, and not because I am a drummer and scientist, I remember he
      > commented that rhythm is the science of the future!
      >
      > I spent a couple of years learning piano, and a year on the trumpet,
      > in the late 50's early sixties, before I settled into drumming. I
      > worked professional full-time in rock'n'roll bar bands 68-72, before
      > I returned to field ecology, and for 20 years used music part-tiume
      > to help support hopelessly underfunded field research. I still get to
      > play about once a week with a rockabilly, blues, country band, but
      > the largest town within a 100 mile drive is 5000 people, and that's
      > the Wikwemikong unceded First Nation, so making money and playing
      > often isn't really an option.
      >
      > It would be nice to see some of Steiner's really pertinent quotes
      > again, maybe someone could put some up?
      >
      > Take care, and give care, Rick
    • golden3000997@cs.com
      Hello Sheila, Rick and Everyone, Sorry for jumping into the middle of this conversation - not one I have been following - but I am particularly sensitive to
      Message 2 of 15 , Sep 13, 2003
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        Hello Sheila, Rick and Everyone,

        Sorry for jumping into the middle of this conversation - not one I have been
        following - but I am particularly sensitive to the issue of music lately and I
        also saw that article, Sheila. It said that they have calculated the black
        hole to be emitting a perfect B flat at 57 octaves below middle C. Really sends
        shivers down my spine. Brings to mind the movie "Contact" and all of the
        search for intelligent life research being done. We are listening for sounds from
        space, but maybe they didn't consider that the sounds they are looking for
        might be inaudible to the human ear. Maybe they should recruit some dogs on the
        project! (Just being facetious) : )

        But the fact that it IS a recognizable harmonic note on a human scale is
        really exciting. Knowing about the "music of the spheres" and "extra-terrestrial"
        lifeforms is one thing. Seeing the possiblility of "proving" their existence
        somewhere down the road is exciting. Alas, as with Christianity, I believe the
        quote is, " For those who will not believe, no proof is possible; for those
        who will believe, no proof is necessary." I forget where the quote comes from.

        Yet in our "scientific" era, perhaps we will see connection with spiritual
        science evolve and more and more people learning that reality is in between
        these extremes. Neither a mind closed like a steel trap or mindless faith is going
        to help us as the world evolves, only a truly scientific approach which looks
        for proof based on the faith that what we seek to find is actually there in
        the first place. All great scientific and human discoveries have had this
        basis. How can one discover something unless one believes that it is there in the
        first place?

        On a slightly related subject - my current pet peeve is this music industry
        campaign against music file sharing. Really pisses me off. Separate e-mail,
        long ranting possible if anyone is interested.

        Best wishes,
        Christine : )
      • LilOleMissy
        Hey, Christine and ALL! Welcome on board, Christine. Your thoughts are really pearls to contemplate, plus it s great to see you enthused, too! I read this
        Message 3 of 15 , Sep 13, 2003
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          Hey, Christine and ALL!

          Welcome on board, Christine. Your thoughts are really "pearls" to
          contemplate, plus it's great to see you enthused, too! I read this last
          night and wanted time to "digest" your thoughts - you're so right about
          science! Steiner knew this full well, and therefore he stressed the
          scientific in all things - after all, he even coined the words SPIRITUAL
          SCIENCE! :)) HAH! I was so joyful to see your words "...only a truly
          scientific approach which looks for proof..." You've stated the key that
          Steiner always stressed! HOORAY!!!!!!!!! You've made my day as well as
          bringing enormous insight - thanks!!!!!!!!

          Joyfully,

          Sheila

          > Hello Sheila, Rick and Everyone,
          >
          > Sorry for jumping into the middle of this conversation - not one I have
          been
          > following - but I am particularly sensitive to the issue of music lately
          and I
          > also saw that article, Sheila. It said that they have calculated the
          black
          > hole to be emitting a perfect B flat at 57 octaves below middle C. Really
          sends
          > shivers down my spine. Brings to mind the movie "Contact" and all of the
          > search for intelligent life research being done. We are listening for
          sounds from
          > space, but maybe they didn't consider that the sounds they are looking
          for
          > might be inaudible to the human ear. Maybe they should recruit some dogs
          on the
          > project! (Just being facetious) : )
          >
          > But the fact that it IS a recognizable harmonic note on a human scale is
          > really exciting. Knowing about the "music of the spheres" and
          "extra-terrestrial"
          > lifeforms is one thing. Seeing the possiblility of "proving" their
          existence
          > somewhere down the road is exciting. Alas, as with Christianity, I
          believe the
          > quote is, " For those who will not believe, no proof is possible; for
          those
          > who will believe, no proof is necessary." I forget where the quote comes
          from.
          >
          > Yet in our "scientific" era, perhaps we will see connection with
          spiritual
          > science evolve and more and more people learning that reality is in
          between
          > these extremes. Neither a mind closed like a steel trap or mindless faith
          is going
          > to help us as the world evolves, only a truly scientific approach which
          looks
          > for proof based on the faith that what we seek to find is actually there
          in
          > the first place. All great scientific and human discoveries have had this
          > basis. How can one discover something unless one believes that it is
          there in the
          > first place?
          >
          > On a slightly related subject - my current pet peeve is this music
          industry
          > campaign against music file sharing. Really pisses me off. Separate
          e-mail,
          > long ranting possible if anyone is interested.
          >
          > Best wishes,
          > Christine : )
        • rickbobbs
          Dear Sheila, and all; My internet-competent computer died, so I m basically off-line for the foreseeable future, except for intermittent access at friends.
          Message 4 of 15 , Sep 25, 2003
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            Dear Sheila, and all;
            My internet-competent computer died, so I'm
            basically off-line for the foreseeable future, except for
            intermittent access at friends.

            Sheila... yes, a needle in a haystack, but what a haystack!
            (and I'll bet if you look, you'll find more...) And yes, the books
            you mention are the ones I've passed on to friends over the years.

            The music of the spheres is Devachanic, which is higher than
            the astral, and is reflected in the number relationships of the
            chemical ether, and thence into physical reality.

            I'm afraid I disagree with "belief - no proof needed,
            disbelief, no proof possible", and so did Steiner. He emphasized
            rather strongly that in occult matters, ubquestioning belief does
            serious spiritual damage, and even stated that it's better to leave
            these matters alone than to submit with unquestioning belief... I've
            referenced a pertinent quote in the (rather large and mostly off-
            topic) discussion under "murderous effects of lies) at
            Anthroposophy.net forum. I'll try to bring some of these observations
            here sometime.

            Hope to have more time later, Rick
          • LilOleMissy
            ... Rick, at time most of us seem to sit around all red eyed in a room strewn with books...haystack indeed! It seems someone came out with a LARGE book listing
            Message 5 of 15 , Sep 26, 2003
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              > [Original Message]
              > From: rickbobbs <rickbobbs@...>
              > Dear Sheila, and all;
              >                        My internet-competent computer died, so I'm
              > basically off-line for the foreseeable future, except for
              > intermittent access at friends.
              >
              >       Sheila... yes, a needle in a haystack, but what a haystack!
              > (and I'll bet if you look, you'll find more...) And yes, the books
              > you mention are the ones I've passed on to friends over the years.

              Rick, at time most of us seem to sit around all red eyed in a room strewn with books...haystack indeed! It seems someone came out with a LARGE book listing varying "subjects" or "points" made by Steiner [and which we must know NOW] along with a published source, but I've never seen it, thankfully, since I was told it seems one "subject" or "point" equates to a zillion references of WHERE it is to be found! What is usually "forgotten" are the varying perspectives of such points - talk about walking around a tree to see all 4 sides?! It's more like 400 to the billionth power sides! ACK!
              >
              >       The music of the spheres is Devachanic, which is higher than
              > the astral, and is reflected in the number relationships of the
              > chemical ether, and thence into physical reality.
              >
              >        I'm afraid I disagree with "belief - no proof needed,
              > disbelief, no proof possible", and so did Steiner. He emphasized
              > rather strongly that in occult matters, ubquestioning belief does
              > serious spiritual damage, and even stated that it's better to leave
              > these matters alone than to submit with unquestioning belief... I've
              > referenced a pertinent quote in the (rather large and mostly off-
              > topic) discussion under "murderous effects of lies) at
              > Anthroposophy.net forum. I'll try to bring some of these observations
              > here sometime.
               
              I'm sure others would echo my hope you'll be able to, as well as having your computer behaving correctly. I accessed Anthroposophy.net once, finding it very informative and well done. Thanks for the info.!
              Sheila
               
               

              >
              >         Hope to have more time later, Rick
            • rickbobbs
              Dear Christine, Sheila & Folks; I really can t say that I know anywhere that Steiner indicates what could give credence to the idea that the machines - and
              Message 6 of 15 , Dec 4, 2003
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                Dear Christine, Sheila & Folks;

                I really can't say that I know anywhere that Steiner indicates what
                could give credence to the idea that the machines - and machinations -
                of materialist astrophysicists give any insight into the 'music of
                the spheres'. Their 'discoveries' come from quite different sources.
                The following is far more typical of what I know to be Steiner's view:





                "...Man has at first no organs with which he could gaze up at
                that which lies on the further side of these forces of light, which
                we also call the Spirits of Form, no organs with which to look up
                into that which is woven into the light. Everything which on our
                earth regulates construction and decomposition, all that is active in
                these in the way of chemical forces is here still interwoven with
                light, and that is principally the domain in which the Spirits of
                Motion are at work. When man learns to perceive something of that
                which he otherwise looks upon merely as maya, in the action of the
                chemical combinations and dissolutions, then he hears these Spirits
                of Motion, he perceives the Music of the Spheres, of which the
                Pythagoreans and other occult schools speak. It is that too, which
                Goethe describes when he speaks of the sun, not as the giver of
                light, but when he says of it;
                `The sun, with many a sister-sphere,
                Stills sings the rival psalm of wonder,
                And still his fore-ordained career
                Accomplishes, with tread of thunder.'

                "This music of the spheres is still there, only it is inaudible
                to the ordinary consciousness. The music of the spheres is real, it
                approaches all men as an astral effect, coming from without. Man,
                however, does not hear it. If to him the music of the spheres was to
                alternate as does the light, which at certain times when darkness
                sets in he no longer sees, then there would be certain times when he
                could hear it. It sounds forth, however, both day and night, and thus
                he can only hear it when he goes through a certain occult training
                and development. Whereas the light streams towards us during the day,
                and during the night weaves on further as light which has been
                received and absorbed, the music of the spheres sounds forth both day
                and night. To man this is as with the miller, who only hears his mill
                when it is not working." (11 June 1910, in The Mission of Folk-Souls,
                1989, pp.61-62)

                Take care and give care, Rick
              • lilolemissy
                Dear Rick and All, I could be mistaken here - it seems to me somewhere Steiner states or illudes to mankinds great musical compositions emulating in a sense a
                Message 7 of 15 , Dec 4, 2003
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                  Dear Rick and All,
                   
                  I could be mistaken here - it seems to me somewhere Steiner states or illudes to mankinds' great musical compositions emulating in a sense a hint of the Music of the Spheres. I always wonder about Beethoven's String Quartets perhaps being close to such a hint of this. Even more spiritually higher than music, I seem to recall his stating to the effect that poetry is even higher than man's musical creations, but Eurythmy is the closest of all. It's remarkable how often we come across mention of "The Music of the Spheres" in some of the more ancient literature and myths.
                   
                  "The Mission of the Folk Souls" is one of my favorites, while some might consider it "controversial" but then poor Steiner and his work has always had numerous detractors. :)
                   
                  Cheers!
                   
                  Sheila
                  Dear Christine, Sheila & Folks;

                  I really can't say that I know anywhere that Steiner indicates what
                  could give credence to the idea that the machines - and machinations -
                  of materialist astrophysicists give any insight into the 'music of
                  the spheres'. Their 'discoveries' come from quite different sources.
                  The following is far more typical of what I know to be Steiner's view:

                      "...Man has at first no organs with which he could gaze up at
                  that which lies on the further side of these forces of light, which
                  we also call the Spirits of Form, no organs with which to look up
                  into that which is woven into the light. Everything which on our
                  earth regulates construction and decomposition, all that is active in
                  these in the way of chemical forces is here still interwoven with
                  light, and that is principally the domain in which the Spirits of
                  Motion are at work. When man learns to perceive something of that
                  which he otherwise looks upon merely as maya, in the action of the
                  chemical combinations and dissolutions, then he hears these Spirits
                  of Motion, he perceives the Music of the Spheres, of which the
                  Pythagoreans and other occult schools speak. It is that too, which
                  Goethe describes when he speaks of the sun, not as the giver of
                  light, but when he says of it;
                                         `The sun, with many a sister-sphere,
                                          Stills sings the rival psalm of wonder,
                                          And still his fore-ordained career
                                          Accomplishes, with tread of thunder.'

                      "This music of the spheres is still there, only it is inaudible
                  to the ordinary consciousness. The music of the spheres is real, it
                  approaches all men as an astral effect, coming from without. Man,
                  however, does not hear it. If to him the music of the spheres was to
                  alternate as does the light, which at certain times when darkness
                  sets in he no longer sees, then there would be certain times when he
                  could hear it. It sounds forth, however, both day and night, and thus
                  he can only hear it when he goes through a certain occult training
                  and development. Whereas the light streams towards us during the day,
                  and during the night weaves on further as light which has been
                  received and absorbed, the music of the spheres sounds forth both day
                  and night. To man this is as with the miller, who only hears his mill
                  when it is not working." (11 June 1910, in The Mission of Folk-Souls,
                  1989, pp.61-62)

                  Take care and give care, Rick



                • Morgan Vierheller
                  The music of the spheres appears in modern literature as well. In Tolkien s Sillmarillion, the first story. We have much evidence in the past. I think it is
                  Message 8 of 15 , Dec 4, 2003
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                    The music of the spheres appears in modern literature as well.
                    In Tolkien's "Sillmarillion," the first story.

                    We have much evidence in the past. I think it is important to look
                    around us.
                    If these are indeed the archetypes, then they will find manifestation in
                    the present.


                    Morgan
                  • lilolemissy
                    Dear Morgan, It may be my imagination in thinking AP is so well represented in Lord of the Rings while Sillmarillion most definitely reminds me of
                    Message 9 of 15 , Dec 4, 2003
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                      Dear Morgan,
                       
                      It may be my imagination in thinking AP is so well represented in "Lord of the Rings" while "Sillmarillion" most definitely reminds me of Steiner's "Apocalypse! I'm so glad you mentioned this! Owen Barfield had something to do with this "similarity," I think? But Tolkien himself had a fascinating incarnation as Tolkien!
                       
                      Sheila
                      The music of the spheres appears in modern literature as well.
                      In Tolkien's "Sillmarillion," the first story.

                      We have much evidence in the past.  I think it is important to look
                      around us.
                      If these are indeed the archetypes, then they will find manifestation in
                      the present.


                      Morgan


                    • lilolemissy
                      Dear Rick and All, You re absolutely correct about this as far as I m concerned, Rick. For me, any possible hearing of The Music of the Spheres must
                      Message 10 of 15 , Dec 4, 2003
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                        Dear Rick and All,
                         
                        You're absolutely correct about this as far as I'm concerned, Rick. For me, any possible "hearing" of The Music of the Spheres must necessarily be a deeply inward process and totally outside the realm of the physical world. Sometimes we can have insights, or feelings, or however one wishes to describe these ways of "sensing", so to say. All mankind is capable of is to hopefully some day experience in some measure such matters, since, as you so well pointed out, they are in no way earthly/physical.
                         
                        Sheila
                        Dear Christine, Sheila & Folks;

                        I really can't say that I know anywhere that Steiner indicates what
                        could give credence to the idea that the machines - and machinations -
                        of materialist astrophysicists give any insight into the 'music of
                        the spheres'. Their 'discoveries' come from quite different sources.
                        The following is far more typical of what I know to be Steiner's view:

                            "...Man has at first no organs with which he could gaze up at
                        that which lies on the further side of these forces of light, which
                        we also call the Spirits of Form, no organs with which to look up
                        into that which is woven into the light. Everything which on our
                        earth regulates construction and decomposition, all that is active in
                        these in the way of chemical forces is here still interwoven with
                        light, and that is principally the domain in which the Spirits of
                        Motion are at work. When man learns to perceive something of that
                        which he otherwise looks upon merely as maya, in the action of the
                        chemical combinations and dissolutions, then he hears these Spirits
                        of Motion, he perceives the Music of the Spheres, of which the
                        Pythagoreans and other occult schools speak. It is that too, which
                        Goethe describes when he speaks of the sun, not as the giver of
                        light, but when he says of it;
                                               `The sun, with many a sister-sphere,
                                                Stills sings the rival psalm of wonder,
                                                And still his fore-ordained career
                                                Accomplishes, with tread of thunder.'

                            "This music of the spheres is still there, only it is inaudible
                        to the ordinary consciousness. The music of the spheres is real, it
                        approaches all men as an astral effect, coming from without. Man,
                        however, does not hear it. If to him the music of the spheres was to
                        alternate as does the light, which at certain times when darkness
                        sets in he no longer sees, then there would be certain times when he
                        could hear it. It sounds forth, however, both day and night, and thus
                        he can only hear it when he goes through a certain occult training
                        and development. Whereas the light streams towards us during the day,
                        and during the night weaves on further as light which has been
                        received and absorbed, the music of the spheres sounds forth both day
                        and night. To man this is as with the miller, who only hears his mill
                        when it is not working." (11 June 1910, in The Mission of Folk-Souls,
                        1989, pp.61-62)

                        Take care and give care, Rick

                      • Lynn Couttie
                        Hi, Could you please take me off your list, I dont want anymore steiner maile please regards. lilolemissy wrote: Dear Rick and All,
                        Message 11 of 15 , Dec 5, 2003
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                          Hi,
                           
                          Could you please take me off your list, I dont want anymore steiner maile please
                           
                          regards.

                          lilolemissy <lilolemissy@...> wrote:
                          Dear Rick and All,
                           
                          You're absolutely correct about this as far as I'm concerned, Rick. For me, any possible "hearing" of The Music of the Spheres must necessarily be a deeply inward process and totally outside the realm of the physical world. Sometimes we can have insights, or feelings, or however one wishes to describe these ways of "sensing", so to say. All mankind is capable of is to hopefully some day experience in some measure such matters, since, as you so well pointed out, they are in no way earthly/physical.
                           
                          Sheila
                          Dear Christine, Sheila & Folks;

                          I really can't say that I know anywhere that Steiner indicates what
                          could give credence to the idea that the machines - and machinations -
                          of materialist astrophysicists give any insight into the 'music of
                          the spheres'. Their 'discoveries' come from quite different sources.
                          The following is far more typical of what I know to be Steiner's view:

                              "...Man has at first no organs with which he could gaze up at
                          that which lies on the further side of these forces of light, which
                          we also call the Spirits of Form, no organs with which to look up
                          into that which is woven into the light. Everything which on our
                          earth regulates construction and decomposition, all that is active in
                          these in the way of chemical forces is here still interwoven with
                          light, and that is principally the domain in which the Spirits of
                          Motion are at work. When man learns to perceive something of that
                          which he otherwise looks upon merely as maya, in the action of the
                          chemical combinations and dissolutions, then he hears these Spirits
                          of Motion, he perceives the Music of the Spheres, of which the
                          Pythagoreans and other occult schools speak. It is that too, which
                          Goethe describes when he speaks of the sun, not as the giver of
                          light, but when he says of it;
                                                 `The sun, with many a sister-sphere,
                                                  Stills sings the rival psalm of wonder,
                                                  And still his fore-ordained career
                                                  Accomplishes, with tread of thunder.'

                              "This music of the spheres is still there, only it is inaudible
                          to the ordinary consciousness. The music of the spheres is real, it
                          approaches all men as an astral effect, coming from without. Man,
                          however, does not hear it. If to him the music of the spheres was to
                          alternate as does the light, which at certain times when darkness
                          sets in he no longer sees, then there would be certain times when he
                          could hear it. It sounds forth, however, both day and night, and thus
                          he can only hear it when he goes through a certain occult training
                          and development. Whereas the light streams towards us during the day,
                          and during the night weaves on further as light which has been
                          received and absorbed, the music of the spheres sounds forth both day
                          and night. To man this is as with the miller, who only hears his mill
                          when it is not working." (11 June 1910, in The Mission of Folk-Souls,
                          1989, pp.61-62)

                          Take care and give care, Rick



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                        • Lynn Couttie
                          Hi, Could you please take me off your list, I dont want anymore steiner maile please regards. lilolemissy wrote: Dear Rick and All,
                          Message 12 of 15 , Dec 5, 2003
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                            Hi,
                             
                            Could you please take me off your list, I dont want anymore steiner maile please
                             
                            regards.

                            lilolemissy <lilolemissy@...> wrote:
                            Dear Rick and All,
                             
                            You're absolutely correct about this as far as I'm concerned, Rick. For me, any possible "hearing" of The Music of the Spheres must necessarily be a deeply inward process and totally outside the realm of the physical world. Sometimes we can have insights, or feelings, or however one wishes to describe these ways of "sensing", so to say. All mankind is capable of is to hopefully some day experience in some measure such matters, since, as you so well pointed out, they are in no way earthly/physical.
                             
                            Sheila
                            Dear Christine, Sheila & Folks;

                            I really can't say that I know anywhere that Steiner indicates what
                            could give credence to the idea that the machines - and machinations -
                            of materialist astrophysicists give any insight into the 'music of
                            the spheres'. Their 'discoveries' come from quite different sources.
                            The following is far more typical of what I know to be Steiner's view:

                                "...Man has at first no organs with which he could gaze up at
                            that which lies on the further side of these forces of light, which
                            we also call the Spirits of Form, no organs with which to look up
                            into that which is woven into the light. Everything which on our
                            earth regulates construction and decomposition, all that is active in
                            these in the way of chemical forces is here still interwoven with
                            light, and that is principally the domain in which the Spirits of
                            Motion are at work. When man learns to perceive something of that
                            which he otherwise looks upon merely as maya, in the action of the
                            chemical combinations and dissolutions, then he hears these Spirits
                            of Motion, he perceives the Music of the Spheres, of which the
                            Pythagoreans and other occult schools speak. It is that too, which
                            Goethe describes when he speaks of the sun, not as the giver of
                            light, but when he says of it;
                                                   `The sun, with many a sister-sphere,
                                                    Stills sings the rival psalm of wonder,
                                                    And still his fore-ordained career
                                                    Accomplishes, with tread of thunder.'

                                "This music of the spheres is still there, only it is inaudible
                            to the ordinary consciousness. The music of the spheres is real, it
                            approaches all men as an astral effect, coming from without. Man,
                            however, does not hear it. If to him the music of the spheres was to
                            alternate as does the light, which at certain times when darkness
                            sets in he no longer sees, then there would be certain times when he
                            could hear it. It sounds forth, however, both day and night, and thus
                            he can only hear it when he goes through a certain occult training
                            and development. Whereas the light streams towards us during the day,
                            and during the night weaves on further as light which has been
                            received and absorbed, the music of the spheres sounds forth both day
                            and night. To man this is as with the miller, who only hears his mill
                            when it is not working." (11 June 1910, in The Mission of Folk-Souls,
                            1989, pp.61-62)

                            Take care and give care, Rick



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                          • Lynn Couttie
                            Hi, Could you please take me off your list, I dont want anymore steiner maile please regards. lilolemissy wrote: Dear Rick and All,
                            Message 13 of 15 , Dec 5, 2003
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                              Hi,
                               
                              Could you please take me off your list, I dont want anymore steiner maile please
                               
                              regards.

                              lilolemissy <lilolemissy@...> wrote:
                              Dear Rick and All,
                               
                              You're absolutely correct about this as far as I'm concerned, Rick. For me, any possible "hearing" of The Music of the Spheres must necessarily be a deeply inward process and totally outside the realm of the physical world. Sometimes we can have insights, or feelings, or however one wishes to describe these ways of "sensing", so to say. All mankind is capable of is to hopefully some day experience in some measure such matters, since, as you so well pointed out, they are in no way earthly/physical.
                               
                              Sheila
                              Dear Christine, Sheila & Folks;

                              I really can't say that I know anywhere that Steiner indicates what
                              could give credence to the idea that the machines - and machinations -
                              of materialist astrophysicists give any insight into the 'music of
                              the spheres'. Their 'discoveries' come from quite different sources.
                              The following is far more typical of what I know to be Steiner's view:

                                  "...Man has at first no organs with which he could gaze up at
                              that which lies on the further side of these forces of light, which
                              we also call the Spirits of Form, no organs with which to look up
                              into that which is woven into the light. Everything which on our
                              earth regulates construction and decomposition, all that is active in
                              these in the way of chemical forces is here still interwoven with
                              light, and that is principally the domain in which the Spirits of
                              Motion are at work. When man learns to perceive something of that
                              which he otherwise looks upon merely as maya, in the action of the
                              chemical combinations and dissolutions, then he hears these Spirits
                              of Motion, he perceives the Music of the Spheres, of which the
                              Pythagoreans and other occult schools speak. It is that too, which
                              Goethe describes when he speaks of the sun, not as the giver of
                              light, but when he says of it;
                                                     `The sun, with many a sister-sphere,
                                                      Stills sings the rival psalm of wonder,
                                                      And still his fore-ordained career
                                                      Accomplishes, with tread of thunder.'

                                  "This music of the spheres is still there, only it is inaudible
                              to the ordinary consciousness. The music of the spheres is real, it
                              approaches all men as an astral effect, coming from without. Man,
                              however, does not hear it. If to him the music of the spheres was to
                              alternate as does the light, which at certain times when darkness
                              sets in he no longer sees, then there would be certain times when he
                              could hear it. It sounds forth, however, both day and night, and thus
                              he can only hear it when he goes through a certain occult training
                              and development. Whereas the light streams towards us during the day,
                              and during the night weaves on further as light which has been
                              received and absorbed, the music of the spheres sounds forth both day
                              and night. To man this is as with the miller, who only hears his mill
                              when it is not working." (11 June 1910, in The Mission of Folk-Souls,
                              1989, pp.61-62)

                              Take care and give care, Rick



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                              Recommended books by Rudolf Steiner at:
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                            • DRStarman2001@aol.com
                              In a message dated 12/5/2003 6:01:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... ******* Well, we heard you the first time. But you can do that from your own Yahoo! account.
                              Message 14 of 15 , Dec 5, 2003
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                                In a message dated 12/5/2003 6:01:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, clea123@... writes:

                                Hi,
                                 
                                Could you please take me off your list, I dont want anymore steiner maile please
                                 
                                regards.



                                ******* Well, we heard you the first time. But you can do that from your own Yahoo! account. Let me know if you're really unable to do so and I'll do it for you.
                                starman
                                http://www.DrStarman.net
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