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Re: [steiner] Gospel time

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  • Morgan Vierheller
    Dear Jeff: I went to the polling site last night and it seem that there are 10 or 11 of us so far. (I changed my vote to St. John s 1908 ISBN 0-910142-13-0) I
    Message 1 of 15 , Dec 2, 2000
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      Dear Jeff:

      I went to the polling site last night and it seem that there are 10 or
      11 of us so far. (I changed my vote to St. John's 1908 ISBN
      0-910142-13-0)
      I don't think I would be as interested in a discussion that includes 200
      people! I worked for the Green Party here in California for several
      years and our plenaries were long and exhausting, trying to reach
      consensus on many points.

      I wouldn't mind starting on the proper night, erev Christmas. In my own
      rhythm's which had been established by Judaism in the past, holidays
      always begin at sundown. As someone pointed out, sundown is at
      different times for us all but it could be seen as a wave crossing the
      earth following the sun's path, all of us beginning at sundown.

      Looking forward to the study.

      MFV
    • starmann77@aol.com
      pacbay@home.com writes:
      Message 2 of 15 , Dec 2, 2000
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        pacbay@... writes:
        << Isn't it curious (an understatement) that only a handful
        (maybe 6) out of maybe 200 (from five net groups) want to participate.
        Where is the level of dedication here? >>

        Many are called but few are chosen.

        But give people time, a lot of folks may not even have paid much attention to
        it yet. They may decide to participate in the next 3 weeks.
      • Danny F.
        ... I would have been delighted myself to participate, but thing is that I will be on the go from Montréal to Québec city, then to Port-Perry Ontario, and
        Message 3 of 15 , Dec 2, 2000
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          > jla wrote:
          >
          > > One additional point: My wife and I discussed this yesterday while
          > on
          > > a nature walk: Isn't it curious (an understatement) that only a
          > > handful (maybe 6) out of maybe 200 (from five net groups) want to
          > > participate. Where is the level of dedication here? How much
          > "effort"
          > > would it take to accept a good suggestion (in addition to other
          > work
          > > that others may be doing during the 12 nights) and link up in this
          > > way? We are talking about maybe 30-45 minutes a day to read 22
          > pages
          > > (one chapter each day). Ummmm.
          > >
          > > Jeff


          I would have been delighted myself to participate, but thing is
          that I will be 'on the go' from Montr�al to Qu�bec city, then
          to Port-Perry Ontario, and to return to Montr�al after. But with
          Anthroposophia and in His name, I'm sure will stand at one.
          May the Holy Spirit come strong over the Earth.


          Best regards,
          Danny

          =====
          "No bird soars too high, if he soars with his own wings."
          --William Blake

          __________________________________________________
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          Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
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        • jla
          No, I don t think everything happens for a reason unless we mean human reason not divine or spiritual influences. Let s face it, most of us are very busy
          Message 4 of 15 , Dec 3, 2000
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            No, I don't think everything happens for a " reason" unless we mean human reason not divine or spiritual influences. Let's face it, most of us are very busy with various priorities and often concentrated spiritual commitment is down the list of things to do. I battle with this constantly but I know when I establish discipline it makes a difference in my life.

            Jeff

            Janet wrote:

             

            Jeff...

            My thoughts too, but everything happens for a reason, don't you think?

            Janet

            jla wrote:

            One additional point: My wife and I discussed this yesterday while on a nature walk: Isn't it curious (an understatement) that only a handful (maybe 6) out of maybe 200 (from five net groups) want to participate. Where is the level of dedication here? How much "effort" would it take to accept a good suggestion (in addition to other work that others may be doing during the 12 nights) and link up in this way? We are talking about maybe 30-45 minutes a day to read 22 pages (one chapter each day). Ummmm.

            Jeff

            "Duncan J. Fernando" wrote:

            Jeff,     It WILL be a majority vote (unlike some other elections). At the momentthere are 4 votes for St.John (1908) - Dr.Starman, Janet, Gisele, and myself.Please remind me who apart from yourself is voting for St.John (1909).            Sena
            http://www.esotericlinks.com Create a free homepage at http://www.esotericlinks.com/userpages/index.shtmlmailto:sena@...
            ----- Original Message -----
            From:jla
            Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 6:46 PM
            Subject: Re: [steiner] Which Gospel?
             What consensus? There still are some who want to use the Gospel of St. John in Relation to the Other Gospels.
            Is this going to be decided by a  majority vote or by the moderator? Just wondering?

            Jeff Auen

            "Duncan J. Fernando" wrote:

            Hi Gisele,
                    Nice to hear from you. There does seem to be a
            consensus developing for the collection of 1908 lectures.
            I've just ordered a copy, and should receive it within the
            next two weeks.
                     I presume that the first night of Christmas is the night
            of the 25th, and the last night is the night of 5th January.
                      As for the structure, one suggestion I would make
            is for a number of members to take on the responsibility of
            summarizing a chapter of the book, these summaries will be
            posted at intervals during the 12 nights, and other members
            post their responses.
                       Can someone tell us how many chapters (including
            preface or introduction) there are in the book?
                        I'll check whether there is some sort of calendar at
            eGroups.

                        Sena

            Create a free homepage at http://www.esotericlinks.com/userpages/index.shtml

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Gisele Deibeck" <Fioredortica@...>
            To: <steiner@egroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 11:28 PM
            Subject: Re: [steiner] Which Gospel?
             

            > Hi! I also meant "The Gospel of St. John" of 1908,I
            > had been willing to read it for a long time but
            > somehow it never came into my hands. This should be a
            > great opportunity for me, John the Evangelist is my
            > favourite and a study group linking people across
            > continents during the magic period of the
            > year...well,i just find it breath taking!
            > How do we structure it?
            > I have never done it before (I mean the twelve
            > nights),and I have even forgot which date is the first
            > one...could anyone remind me? Thanks,
            > Gisele.
            >
            >
            >
            > ____________________________________________________________
            > Do You Yahoo!?
            > Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
            > or your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.ie
            >
            >
            > Post to steiner@egroups.com
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > steiner-unsubscribe@egroups.com
            >
            > Recommended books by Rudolf Steiner at:
            > http://www.esotericlinks.com/steinerbooks.html
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
             
             

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          • jla
            Morgan, My error or was this idea dual sided. I did not see this as a study session per se but a way also to offer something to the spiritual worlds. As most
            Message 5 of 15 , Dec 3, 2000
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              Morgan,

              My error or was this idea dual sided. I did not see this as a study session per se but a way also to offer something to the spiritual worlds. As most understand, reading spiritually potent and genuine materials have an impact on beings and the environment around us and higher worlds. Some may chose online study and summaries, others not. There is also some difference in opinion about the starting time. I don't think it really matters- the eve of the 24th or the day of the 25th. To Rosicrucian perspectives, the most holy night is the 24th since it is the end of the three day entombment of the Christ into the deepest aspect of the Earth's center. The period from the solstice to the midnight of the 24th is considered the holy three days.

              I fully agree with you about group consensus and discussion meetings. The problem often comes down to poor leadership and group intent. If people would give up personal agendas and egos and agree to a common goal and process, much can happen. Unfortunately this is difficult to achieve in the world of politics.

              Jeff

              Morgan Vierheller wrote:

              Dear Jeff:

              I went to the polling site last night and it seem that there are 10 or
              11 of us so far. (I changed my vote to St. John's 1908 ISBN
              0-910142-13-0)
              I don't think I would be as interested in a discussion that includes 200
              people!  I worked for the Green Party here in California for several
              years and our plenaries were long and exhausting, trying to reach
              consensus on many points.

              I wouldn't mind starting on the proper night, erev Christmas.  In my own
              rhythm's which had been established by Judaism in the past, holidays
              always begin at sundown.  As someone pointed out, sundown is at
              different times for us all but it could be seen as a wave crossing the
              earth following the sun's path, all of us beginning at sundown.

              Looking forward to the study.

              MFV
               


              Post to steiner@egroups.com

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            • Janet
              ... They all sound like reasons to me. :) Janet
              Message 6 of 15 , Dec 3, 2000
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                jla wrote:
                No, I don't think everything happens for a " reason" unless we mean human reason not divine or spiritual influences. Let's face it, most of us are very busy with various priorities and often concentrated spiritual commitment is down the list of things to do.


                They all sound like reasons to me. :)

                Janet

                 
                Janet wrote:
                Jeff...

                My thoughts too, but everything happens for a reason, don't you think?

                Janet

                jla wrote:

                One additional point: My wife and I discussed this yesterday while on a nature walk: Isn't it curious (an understatement) that only a handful (maybe 6) out of maybe 200 (from five net groups) want to participate. Where is the level of dedication here? How much "effort" would it take to accept a good suggestion (in addition to other work that others may be doing during the 12 nights) and link up in this way? We are talking about maybe 30-45 minutes a day to read 22 pages (one chapter each day). Ummmm.

                Jeff

                "Duncan J. Fernando" wrote:

                Jeff,     It WILL be a majority vote (unlike some other elections). At the momentthere are 4 votes for St.John (1908) - Dr.Starman, Janet, Gisele, and myself.Please remind me who apart from yourself is voting for St.John (1909).            Sena
                http://www.esotericlinks.com Create a free homepage at http://www.esotericlinks.com/userpages/index.shtmlmailto:sena@...
                ----- Original Message -----
                From:jla
                Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 6:46 PM
                Subject: Re: [steiner] Which Gospel?
                 What consensus? There still are some who want to use the Gospel of St. John in Relation to the Other Gospels.
                Is this going to be decided by a  majority vote or by the moderator? Just wondering?

                Jeff Auen

                "Duncan J. Fernando" wrote:

                Hi Gisele,
                        Nice to hear from you. There does seem to be a
                consensus developing for the collection of 1908 lectures.
                I've just ordered a copy, and should receive it within the
                next two weeks.
                         I presume that the first night of Christmas is the night
                of the 25th, and the last night is the night of 5th January.
                          As for the structure, one suggestion I would make
                is for a number of members to take on the responsibility of
                summarizing a chapter of the book, these summaries will be
                posted at intervals during the 12 nights, and other members
                post their responses.
                           Can someone tell us how many chapters (including
                preface or introduction) there are in the book?
                            I'll check whether there is some sort of calendar at
                eGroups.

                            Sena

                Create a free homepage at http://www.esotericlinks.com/userpages/index.shtml

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Gisele Deibeck" <Fioredortica@...>
                To: <steiner@egroups.com>
                Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 11:28 PM
                Subject: Re: [steiner] Which Gospel?
                 

                > Hi! I also meant "The Gospel of St. John" of 1908,I
                > had been willing to read it for a long time but
                > somehow it never came into my hands. This should be a
                > great opportunity for me, John the Evangelist is my
                > favourite and a study group linking people across
                > continents during the magic period of the
                > year...well,i just find it breath taking!
                > How do we structure it?
                > I have never done it before (I mean the twelve
                > nights),and I have even forgot which date is the first
                > one...could anyone remind me? Thanks,
                > Gisele.
                >
                >
                >
                > ____________________________________________________________
                > Do You Yahoo!?
                > Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
                > or your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.ie
                >
                >
                > Post to steiner@egroups.com
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > steiner-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                >
                > Recommended books by Rudolf Steiner at:
                > http://www.esotericlinks.com/steinerbooks.html
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                 
                 

                Post to steiner@egroups.com

                To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                Recommended books by Rudolf Steiner at:
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              • jla
                Danny, Bring the book with you and read before retiring???. It about the act not when. Jeff
                Message 7 of 15 , Dec 3, 2000
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                  Danny,

                  Bring the book with you and read before retiring???. It about the act not
                  when.

                  Jeff

                  "Danny F." wrote:

                  > > jla wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > One additional point: My wife and I discussed this yesterday while
                  > > on
                  > > > a nature walk: Isn't it curious (an understatement) that only a
                  > > > handful (maybe 6) out of maybe 200 (from five net groups) want to
                  > > > participate. Where is the level of dedication here? How much
                  > > "effort"
                  > > > would it take to accept a good suggestion (in addition to other
                  > > work
                  > > > that others may be doing during the 12 nights) and link up in this
                  > > > way? We are talking about maybe 30-45 minutes a day to read 22
                  > > pages
                  > > > (one chapter each day). Ummmm.
                  > > >
                  > > > Jeff
                  >
                  >
                  > I would have been delighted myself to participate, but thing is
                  > that I will be 'on the go' from Montréal to Québec city, then
                  > to Port-Perry Ontario, and to return to Montréal after. But with
                  > Anthroposophia and in His name, I'm sure will stand at one.
                  > May the Holy Spirit come strong over the Earth.
                  >
                  > Best regards,
                  > Danny
                  >
                  > =====
                  > "No bird soars too high, if he soars with his own wings."
                  > --William Blake
                  >
                  > __________________________________________________
                  > Do You Yahoo!?
                  > Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
                  > http://shopping.yahoo.com/
                  >
                  >
                  > Post to steiner@egroups.com
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > steiner-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                  >
                  > Recommended books by Rudolf Steiner at:
                  > http://www.esotericlinks.com/steinerbooks.html
                • jla
                  Without raising hackles, I would rather call them excuses. Jeff ... [Click Here!]
                  Message 8 of 15 , Dec 3, 2000
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                    Without raising hackles, I would rather call them excuses.

                    Jeff

                    Janet wrote:

                    jla wrote:
                    No, I don't think everything happens for a " reason" unless we mean human reason not divine or spiritual influences. Let's face it, most of us are very busy with various priorities and often concentrated spiritual commitment is down the list of things to do.


                    They all sound like reasons to me. :)

                    Janet

                     
                    Janet wrote:
                    Jeff...

                    My thoughts too, but everything happens for a reason, don't you think?

                    Janet

                    jla wrote:

                    One additional point: My wife and I discussed this yesterday while on a nature walk: Isn't it curious (an understatement) that only a handful (maybe 6) out of maybe 200 (from five net groups) want to participate. Where is the level of dedication here? How much "effort" would it take to accept a good suggestion (in addition to other work that others may be doing during the 12 nights) and link up in this way? We are talking about maybe 30-45 minutes a day to read 22 pages (one chapter each day). Ummmm.

                    Jeff

                    "Duncan J. Fernando" wrote:

                    Jeff,     It WILL be a majority vote (unlike some other elections). At the momentthere are 4 votes for St.John (1908) - Dr.Starman, Janet, Gisele, and myself.Please remind me who apart from yourself is voting for St.John (1909).            Sena
                    http://www.esotericlinks.com Create a free homepage at http://www.esotericlinks.com/userpages/index.shtmlmailto:sena@...
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From:jla
                    Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 6:46 PM
                    Subject: Re: [steiner] Which Gospel?
                     What consensus? There still are some who want to use the Gospel of St. John in Relation to the Other Gospels.
                    Is this going to be decided by a  majority vote or by the moderator? Just wondering?

                    Jeff Auen

                    "Duncan J. Fernando" wrote:

                    Hi Gisele,
                            Nice to hear from you. There does seem to be a
                    consensus developing for the collection of 1908 lectures.
                    I've just ordered a copy, and should receive it within the
                    next two weeks.
                             I presume that the first night of Christmas is the night
                    of the 25th, and the last night is the night of 5th January.
                              As for the structure, one suggestion I would make
                    is for a number of members to take on the responsibility of
                    summarizing a chapter of the book, these summaries will be
                    posted at intervals during the 12 nights, and other members
                    post their responses.
                               Can someone tell us how many chapters (including
                    preface or introduction) there are in the book?
                                I'll check whether there is some sort of calendar at
                    eGroups.

                                Sena

                    Create a free homepage at http://www.esotericlinks.com/userpages/index.shtml

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Gisele Deibeck" <Fioredortica@...>
                    To: <steiner@egroups.com>
                    Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 11:28 PM
                    Subject: Re: [steiner] Which Gospel?
                     

                    > Hi! I also meant "The Gospel of St. John" of 1908,I
                    > had been willing to read it for a long time but
                    > somehow it never came into my hands. This should be a
                    > great opportunity for me, John the Evangelist is my
                    > favourite and a study group linking people across
                    > continents during the magic period of the
                    > year...well,i just find it breath taking!
                    > How do we structure it?
                    > I have never done it before (I mean the twelve
                    > nights),and I have even forgot which date is the first
                    > one...could anyone remind me? Thanks,
                    > Gisele.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ____________________________________________________________
                    > Do You Yahoo!?
                    > Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
                    > or your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.ie
                    >
                    >
                    > Post to steiner@egroups.com
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > steiner-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                    >
                    > Recommended books by Rudolf Steiner at:
                    > http://www.esotericlinks.com/steinerbooks.html
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                     
                     

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                    Recommended books by Rudolf Steiner at:
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                  • Danny F.
                    ... I ll try... I ll see if I can get the book in a bookstore over here. Else I ll try to order it as soon as possible over the internet... Best regards, Danny
                    Message 9 of 15 , Dec 4, 2000
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                      --- jla <pacbay@...> wrote:
                      > Danny,
                      >
                      > Bring the book with you and read before retiring???. It about the act
                      > not
                      > when.
                      >
                      > Jeff


                      I'll try...

                      I'll see if I can get the book in a bookstore over here.

                      Else I'll try to order it as soon as possible over the internet...


                      Best regards,
                      Danny



                      =====
                      "No bird soars too high, if he soars with his own wings."
                      --William Blake

                      __________________________________________________
                      Do You Yahoo!?
                      Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
                      http://shopping.yahoo.com/
                    • Janet
                      Hmmmm...that sounds a bit judgmental, Jeff. What may appear as excuses to some are valid reasons for others. * They may not have the book, which I understand
                      Message 10 of 15 , Dec 4, 2000
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                        Hmmmm...that sounds a bit judgmental, Jeff.  What may appear as excuses to some are valid reasons for others.
                        • They may not have the book, which I understand is out of print.
                        • They may already be in a study group. 
                        • Some work 12-13 hour days in addition to pressing business and family obligations.
                        • Some spend 8 hours on a computer at work and have no desire to log on when they get home.
                        I don't believe that a lack of response is indicative of a lack spiritual commitment.

                        Janet



                         

                        jla wrote:

                        Without raising hackles, I would rather call them excuses.

                        Jeff

                        Janet wrote:

                        jla wrote:
                        No, I don't think everything happens for a " reason" unless we mean human reason not divine or spiritual influences. Let's face it, most of us are very busy with various priorities and often concentrated spiritual commitment is down the list of things to do.


                        They all sound like reasons to me. :)

                        Janet

                         
                        Janet wrote:
                        Jeff...

                        My thoughts too, but everything happens for a reason, don't you think?

                        Janet

                        jla wrote:

                        One additional point: My wife and I discussed this yesterday while on a nature walk: Isn't it curious (an understatement) that only a handful (maybe 6) out of maybe 200 (from five net groups) want to participate. Where is the level of dedication here? How much "effort" would it take to accept a good suggestion (in addition to other work that others may be doing during the 12 nights) and link up in this way? We are talking about maybe 30-45 minutes a day to read 22 pages (one chapter each day). Ummmm.

                        Jeff

                        "Duncan J. Fernando" wrote:

                        Jeff,     It WILL be a majority vote (unlike some other elections). At the momentthere are 4 votes for St.John (1908) - Dr.Starman, Janet, Gisele, and myself.Please remind me who apart from yourself is voting for St.John (1909).            Sena
                        http://www.esotericlinks.com Create a free homepage at http://www.esotericlinks.com/userpages/index.shtmlmailto:sena@...
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From:jla
                        Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 6:46 PM
                        Subject: Re: [steiner] Which Gospel?
                         What consensus? There still are some who want to use the Gospel of St. John in Relation to the Other Gospels.
                        Is this going to be decided by a  majority vote or by the moderator? Just wondering?

                        Jeff Auen

                        "Duncan J. Fernando" wrote:

                        Hi Gisele,
                                Nice to hear from you. There does seem to be a
                        consensus developing for the collection of 1908 lectures.
                        I've just ordered a copy, and should receive it within the
                        next two weeks.
                                 I presume that the first night of Christmas is the night
                        of the 25th, and the last night is the night of 5th January.
                                  As for the structure, one suggestion I would make
                        is for a number of members to take on the responsibility of
                        summarizing a chapter of the book, these summaries will be
                        posted at intervals during the 12 nights, and other members
                        post their responses.
                                   Can someone tell us how many chapters (including
                        preface or introduction) there are in the book?
                                    I'll check whether there is some sort of calendar at
                        eGroups.

                                    Sena

                        Create a free homepage at http://www.esotericlinks.com/userpages/index.shtml

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Gisele Deibeck" <Fioredortica@...>
                        To: <steiner@egroups.com>
                        Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 11:28 PM
                        Subject: Re: [steiner] Which Gospel?
                         

                        > Hi! I also meant "The Gospel of St. John" of 1908,I
                        > had been willing to read it for a long time but
                        > somehow it never came into my hands. This should be a
                        > great opportunity for me, John the Evangelist is my
                        > favourite and a study group linking people across
                        > continents during the magic period of the
                        > year...well,i just find it breath taking!
                        > How do we structure it?
                        > I have never done it before (I mean the twelve
                        > nights),and I have even forgot which date is the first
                        > one...could anyone remind me? Thanks,
                        > Gisele.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ____________________________________________________________
                        > Do You Yahoo!?
                        > Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
                        > or your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.ie
                        >
                        >
                        > Post to steiner@egroups.com
                        >
                        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                      • starmann77@aol.com
                        In a message dated 12/4/00 9:07:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, premabrahma@yahoo.com writes:
                        Message 11 of 15 , Dec 4, 2000
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                          In a message dated 12/4/00 9:07:33 AM Eastern Standard Time,
                          premabrahma@... writes:

                          << I'll see if I can get the book in a bookstore over here.

                          Else I'll try to order it as soon as possible over the internet...
                          >>
                          If anyone wants to buy the book, it's $16.01 from the Anthroposophic Press
                          (including $5 for UPS shipping). Or you can look for used copies at
                          www.bibliofind.com or bookfinders.com. The press is at this link:
                          <A HREF="http://www.anthropress.org/">ANTHROPOSOPHIC PRESS</A>
                        • jla
                          Again, not to beat a issue, : * I just ordered the book and its available via AP Press direct on the net. * Yes, I was being judgmental and I always include
                          Message 12 of 15 , Dec 4, 2000
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                            Again, not to beat a issue, :
                            • I just ordered the book and its available via AP Press direct on the net.
                            • Yes, I was being judgmental and I always include myself in this
                            • Study group commitments are a good point for some
                            • And finally, yes we are all busy but the commitment is not a big one. Anyone can crave away 30- 45 minutes a day for 12 days to read meditatively one chapter a day.
                            • Members do not have to have extra time to the net for study or discussion, if they do not want to. The central idea is to make a spiritual contribution to oneself, others who are interested (in one's family or friendship group) and to the Spirit by doing something at  the same time and with same content. 


                            But, really, out of over 200 members (in five groups or more) only 5% responding? There may be some who did not "vote" and are going to be involved. I will accept that but in any endeavor -  political, social, or spiritual- this is not enough to make a change in anything.

                            Jeff

                            Janet wrote:

                            Hmmmm...that sounds a bit judgmental, Jeff.  What may appear as excuses to some are valid reasons for others.
                            • They may not have the book, which I understand is out of print.
                            • They may already be in a study group.
                            • Some work 12-13 hour days in addition to pressing business and family obligations.
                            • Some spend 8 hours on a computer at work and have no desire to log on when they get home.
                            I don't believe that a lack of response is indicative of a lack spiritual commitment.

                            Janet



                             

                          • Duncan J. Fernando
                            Jeff, I would like to respond to your statement that, in any endeavor - political, social, or spiritual- this is not enough to make a change in anything. I
                            Message 13 of 15 , Dec 5, 2000
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                              Jeff,
                                   I would like to respond to your statement that, "in any endeavor -  political, social, or spiritual- this is not enough to make a change in anything. " I would disagree with that. Various sayings come to mind, such as "the leaven in a loaf of bread". In modern scientific theory, I think it's called "chaos theory", there is the idea that the fluttering of a single butterfly's wings could trigger a cyclone.
                                     Best regards,
                                          Sena
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: jla
                              Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 7:25 PM
                              Subject: Re: [steiner] Gospel time

                              Again, not to beat a issue, :
                              • I just ordered the book and its available via AP Press direct on the net.
                              • Yes, I was being judgmental and I always include myself in this
                              • Study group commitments are a good point for some
                              • And finally, yes we are all busy but the commitment is not a big one. Anyone can crave away 30- 45 minutes a day for 12 days to read meditatively one chapter a day.
                              • Members do not have to have extra time to the net for study or discussion, if they do not want to. The central idea is to make a spiritual contribution to oneself, others who are interested (in one's family or friendship group) and to the Spirit by doing something at  the same time and with same content. 


                              But, really, out of over 200 members (in five groups or more) only 5% responding? There may be some who did not "vote" and are going to be involved. I will accept that but in any endeavor -  political, social, or spiritual- this is not enough to make a change in anything.

                              Jeff



                               



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                            • jla
                              I guess it a matter of opinion. I see this reasoning as a bit of stretch. I tend to be an optimist by nature but am very practical in life. I do some athletic
                              Message 14 of 15 , Dec 5, 2000
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                                I guess it a matter of opinion. I see this reasoning as a bit of stretch. I tend to be an optimist by nature but am very practical in life. I do some athletic teaching and always notice when students do and do not work on their technique and game. (Racquetball and Squash). It is always apparent when we do not work on something- the results show. I cannot think this principle holds true in spiritual work as well. 50 lights will never be brighter than 200. I sense more and more in conversations with others, that the spiritual worlds are in dire straits and needs more of our light.  I am not being superior here. I am not a paragon of discipline either but as I grow older, I now see that commitment and regular discipline is an absolute. Nothing really can get transformed or changed without constancy and intention whether its ourselves . This is all I was alluding to in this reading exercise. The new work called First Steps in Inner Development by RS covers this in some detail.
                                 Though some effort is always good, if not enough leavening is added we get a flatten loft. The hundredth monkey idea has some merit but I think Al Gore wished more people got out and voted.

                                "Duncan J. Fernando" wrote:

                                Jeff,     I would like to respond to your statement that, "in any endeavor -  political, social, or spiritual- this is not enough to make a change in anything. " I would disagree with that. Various sayings come to mind, such as "the leaven in a loaf of bread". In modern scientific theory, I think it's called "chaos theory", there is the idea that the fluttering of a single butterfly's wings could trigger a cyclone.       Best regards,            Sena
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