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Re: "Resist Not Evil" (The Desert Cult)

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  • rickbobbs
    Dear Sheila; You wouldn t happen to know the dates of the eight lectures recently published as The Fourth Dimension ? All I can find out is that they are from
    Message 1 of 10 , Sep 4, 2003
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      Dear Sheila;

      You wouldn't happen to know the dates of the eight lectures recently
      published as "The Fourth Dimension"? All I can find out is that they
      are from 1905-1908, and I can't afford to buy any more 'repeats' that
      I already have, just published under different titles.

      Thanks for the note and any help you can give... busy times right
      now, Rick
    • rickbobbs
      Dear Folks: Thanks everso to Starman for your prompt reply. I m interested in confronting this book. The notion that Steiner ever encouraged the idea of a
      Message 2 of 10 , Sep 6, 2003
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        Dear Folks:
        Thanks everso to Starman for your prompt reply. I'm interested in
        confronting this book. The notion that Steiner ever encouraged the
        idea of a 'fourth dimension' is totally false, and only adds to a
        list of misconceptions that the "Astronomical-mathematical Section"
        has laid at Steiner's feet over the years. This is actually
        (consciously or unconsciously doesn't matter) a method that is well
        know to the Desert Cult, and employed by them either in suit and tie,
        or turban and robe; oddly enough in a lecture cycle where he also
        said, referring to higher perception "One turns back to the second
        dimension and the third disappears;" (I'll post the full quote),
        Steiner described this 'occult imprisonment' clearly, as follows:


        "I hope you will not take this as a lack of respect for science -
        I fully recognise science - but compared with the truth, such things
        as these, though they cannot be too highly praised and appreciated in
        their brilliancy at the present time, are yet but dilettante as
        compared with the reality. On the other hand they show how man's
        thought itself drives him, with abstract concepts of light-radiations
        and electrons, to enter a region in which the reality is to be found.
        It is simply a question of coming to the relity, and of bringing into
        all the ideas arising in all directions, and of which no use can be
        made, that impulse which drives even modern research into Spiritual
        domains. In certain occult circles foolish practices are carried on.
        People are taught all sorts of occult doctrines which do not lead to
        the ultimate point in which this life originated. They are given
        pictures, but are not led to the origin of the pictures, to that of
        which they are the image. Thus they are surrounded in their souls
        with a world of pictures, instead of having the feeling that they
        must learn through these pictures to know the Universe.
        "For this reason, after publishing my book `Theosophy', I followed
        it up with `Occult Science'. In the latter, what had been presented
        in pictures in `Theosophy' is carried into the reality of the Stellar
        world, in the evolution through Saturn, Sun and Moon. These two books
        complete each other.
        "If in any sphere a man is given nothing but pictures, he will be
        surrounded by them.
        "People who carry on wrong occult practices, do this with those
        pupils of whom they have not gained complete possession, and by this
        means the latter are, as it were, occultly imprisoned. In these
        occult prisons man is surrounded by pictures which are not
        comprehensible to him and from which he cannot escape. By this means
        many evil occult practices have been and still are being carried on.
        There are also Spiritual beings who lead man, or part of man, into
        these occult prisons. This is a quite similar phenomenon. These
        Spiritual beings are set free in nature if we have no Spiritual
        understanding of it, and regard it in such a way that the atomistic
        processes are taken as being naturalistic, which means denying the
        spirit in nature. The so-called Ahrimanic beings, striving in
        opposition to man, then become active in nature and deceive man with
        all sorts of pictures; thus he may be led into occult captivity by
        these Ahrimanic Spiritual beings.
        "A great number of what are to-day known as scientific conceptions
        of nature, - not the scientific facts (these are good), are nothing
        but the pictures of an universal captivity, the danger of which is
        hanging over the head of humanity. Such a danger exists in the fact
        that man is everywhere surrounded by atomic and molecular pictures.
        An occult custody surrounds us with these pictures and we cannot
        perceive the free Spiritual and stellar pictures, because the world
        of the atoms forms, as it were, the psychic walls which enclose us in
        a prison in which we are Spiritually confined." (30 Aug. 1923, in:
        The Evolution of the World and of Humanity, 1989, pp.237-238)
      • rickbobbs
        Dear Folks; Steiner, like any realistic scientist, always wanted us to collect and correlate items of concrete knowledge . Here is another fact that relates
        Message 3 of 10 , Sep 8, 2003
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          Dear Folks;
          Steiner, like any realistic scientist, always wanted us
          to 'collect and correlate items of concrete knowledge'. Here is
          another fact that relates to the direct methods referred to under
          this heading:

          "I hope you will not take what has been said to-day as
          propagandism of any sort, but look upon it as expressing existing
          facts. A man certainly must and ought to live with his times and when
          anything is described, he should not look upon it as all that is to
          be said on the subject; he should learn to strike the balance. It is
          quite natural that the world to-day should be confronted with
          impulses leading entirely to materialism. That cannot be prevented,
          it is connected with the deep needs of the age. But a counterbalance
          must be established. One very prominent means of driving man into
          materialism is the cinematograph. It has not been observed from this
          standpoint; but there is no better school for materialism than the
          cinema. For what one sees there is not reality as men see it. Only an
          age which has so little idea of reality as this age of ours, which
          worships reality as an idol in a material sense, could believe that
          the cinema represents reality. Any other age would consider whether
          men really walk along the street as seen at the cinema; people would
          ask themselves whether what they saw at such a performance really
          corresponded to reality. Ask yourself frankly and honourably, what is
          really most like what you see in the street: a picture painted by an
          artist, an immobile picture, or the dreadful sparkling pictures of
          the cinematograph. If you put the question to yourselves quite
          honourably, you will admit that what the artist reproduces in a state
          of rest is much more like what you see. Hence, while people are
          sitting at the cinema, what they see there does not make its way into
          the ordinary faculty of perception, it enters a deeper, more material
          stratum than we usually employ for our perception. A man becomes
          etherically goggle-eyed at the cinema; he develops eyes like those of
          a seal, only much larger, I mean larger etherically. This works in a
          materialising way, not only upon what he has in his consciousness,
          but upon his deepest sub-consciousness. Do not think I am abusing the
          cinematograph; I should like to say once more that it is quite
          natural it should exist, and it will attain far greater perfection as
          time goes on. That will be the road leading to materialism. But a
          counterbalance must be established, and that can only be created in
          the following way. With the search for reality which is being
          developed in the cinema, with this descent below sense-perception,
          man must at the same time develop an ascent above it, an ascent into
          Spiritual reality. Then the cinema will do him no harm, and he can
          see it as often as he likes. But unless the counterbalance is there,
          people will be led by such things as these, not to have their proper
          relation to the earth, but to become more and more closely related to
          it, until at last they are entirely shut off from the Spiritual
          world." (27 Feb. 1917, in: Cosmic and Human Metamorphoses, 1989, pp.
          44-45)

          Now, add to this the 'unreality presented as reality' that digital
          special effects are able to instill, as Steiner says, not in peoples
          consciousness, but in their subconscious.

          Take care, and give care.... Rick.
        • LilOleMissy
          Dear Rick and Friends, Thank you for bringing this to our attention, since it seems to me, hopefully erroneously, few are aware of these facts. Steiner spoke
          Message 4 of 10 , Sep 8, 2003
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            Dear Rick and Friends,

            Thank you for bringing this to our attention, since it seems to me,
            hopefully erroneously, few are aware of these facts. Steiner spoke quite a
            bit regarding the deleterious effects of movies upon our inner being and
            the influences thereby brought to bear upon not only ourselves, but
            mankind, Spiritual Beings and the entire universe. I've found *Cosmic &
            Human Metamorphosis* to be one of those "special" works speaking so very
            much to me, but perhaps we all have certain works striking very deeply into
            our very souls. It was also through this work that I understood something
            regarding organ transplants, as well as many other concepts.

            Cheers,

            Sheila

            > Dear Folks;
            > Steiner, like any realistic scientist, always wanted us
            > to 'collect and correlate items of concrete knowledge'. Here is
            > another fact that relates to the direct methods referred to under
            > this heading:
            >
            > "I hope you will not take what has been said to-day as
            > propagandism of any sort, but look upon it as expressing existing
            > facts. A man certainly must and ought to live with his times and when
            > anything is described, he should not look upon it as all that is to
            > be said on the subject; he should learn to strike the balance. It is
            > quite natural that the world to-day should be confronted with
            > impulses leading entirely to materialism. That cannot be prevented,
            > it is connected with the deep needs of the age. But a counterbalance
            > must be established. One very prominent means of driving man into
            > materialism is the cinematograph. It has not been observed from this
            > standpoint; but there is no better school for materialism than the
            > cinema. For what one sees there is not reality as men see it. Only an
            > age which has so little idea of reality as this age of ours, which
            > worships reality as an idol in a material sense, could believe that
            > the cinema represents reality. Any other age would consider whether
            > men really walk along the street as seen at the cinema; people would
            > ask themselves whether what they saw at such a performance really
            > corresponded to reality. Ask yourself frankly and honourably, what is
            > really most like what you see in the street: a picture painted by an
            > artist, an immobile picture, or the dreadful sparkling pictures of
            > the cinematograph. If you put the question to yourselves quite
            > honourably, you will admit that what the artist reproduces in a state
            > of rest is much more like what you see. Hence, while people are
            > sitting at the cinema, what they see there does not make its way into
            > the ordinary faculty of perception, it enters a deeper, more material
            > stratum than we usually employ for our perception. A man becomes
            > etherically goggle-eyed at the cinema; he develops eyes like those of
            > a seal, only much larger, I mean larger etherically. This works in a
            > materialising way, not only upon what he has in his consciousness,
            > but upon his deepest sub-consciousness. Do not think I am abusing the
            > cinematograph; I should like to say once more that it is quite
            > natural it should exist, and it will attain far greater perfection as
            > time goes on. That will be the road leading to materialism. But a
            > counterbalance must be established, and that can only be created in
            > the following way. With the search for reality which is being
            > developed in the cinema, with this descent below sense-perception,
            > man must at the same time develop an ascent above it, an ascent into
            > Spiritual reality. Then the cinema will do him no harm, and he can
            > see it as often as he likes. But unless the counterbalance is there,
            > people will be led by such things as these, not to have their proper
            > relation to the earth, but to become more and more closely related to
            > it, until at last they are entirely shut off from the Spiritual
            > world." (27 Feb. 1917, in: Cosmic and Human Metamorphoses, 1989, pp.
            > 44-45)
            >
            > Now, add to this the 'unreality presented as reality' that digital
            > special effects are able to instill, as Steiner says, not in peoples
            > consciousness, but in their subconscious.
            >
            > Take care, and give care.... Rick.
          • rickbobbs
            ... Thanks for the reply; I d be very interested in references to Steiner s other comments re: film. I know that he warned about recordings as having
            Message 5 of 10 , Sep 9, 2003
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              >Dear Sheila, & Folks;
              Thanks for the reply; I'd be very
              interested in references to Steiner's other comments re: film. I know
              that he warned about recordings as having deleterious, attractive
              influences on departed souls (i.e., attracting them back to earthly
              affairs), due to the penetrating power of voice, but I haven't
              referenced that either. As a musician, I had an old prejudice
              about 'dead guys' clogging up the industry, and disallowing the young
              artists from making a reasonable living, or often even being heard;
              but Steiner added quite another dimension to the problem!
              I'd also appreciate your pointing to which Steiner comments
              made you think of the issue of transplants as a 'health' method...
              way back when, I wondered (and still do) how many otherwise healthy
              children starve to death for the money spend keeping deathly
              sick 'rich' folks going. Bad, bad Karma there. Also, have you
              noticed? SARS and West Nile Virus are practically hysterical in the
              press. I figure that's why the hundreds of sick US forces personnel
              in Iraq have 'deadly pneumonia' instead of SARS - symptoms are the
              same, death rate is the same (low), but if you said SARS, the press
              would have to talk about it for months, whereas 'deadly pneumonia,
              well... I've seen it reported once on CBS, then you don't have to
              talk about it. And up here in Canada we've had 2 deaths from WNV...
              but one of them was a 92 year old with pneumonia -But he died from
              WEST NILE. Even a farce like that has to be talked up.

              Take care and give care, Rick
            • LilOleMissy
              Dear Rick and All, About Steiner s statements regarding the harm movies [and I d guess TV might also fall into the same category?] can cause, I don t recall
              Message 6 of 10 , Sep 10, 2003
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                Dear Rick and All,

                About Steiner's statements regarding the harm movies [and I'd guess TV
                might also fall into the same category?] can cause, I don't recall where I
                came across that point, but it seems to me he was speaking of the effects
                upon man and the Spiritual Worlds and Beings of the emotions elicited from
                us by this medium. In other words, our emotions, thoughts and feelings have
                a direct effect upon the spiritual worlds, and certainly movies bring these
                out as well as these not having a basis in fact since they are not due to
                real life experiences we have. I'd agree about recordings, Rick, which I
                seem to feel Steiner referred to as "canned" music, speech, etc. as opposed
                to a real performance seen and heard "in person." Since I've played piano
                most of my life, it was also interesting to me to read Steiner seemed to
                place the piano "lower on the scale" of musical instruments, but it seems
                to do with the absence of human breath [pneumotosophy, if I haven't errred
                in spelling] being involved as one would find in the wind instruments.
                Steiner seemed to me to compare music at times with the "Music of the
                Spheres," and he certainly loved good music.

                About the health issue I seemed to gain from "Human and Cosmic
                Metamorphosis," it was during the time I was working in medicine in
                relation to transplants and his words "liver is not always liver" opened up
                a vast world for me! I could "see," so to say, the world seemingly adapting
                to the concept of Body Parts Sold Here as we do to Auto Parts Sold Here -
                clear and simple without regard to the enormously vast spiritual
                implications involved. It's been my experience that most transplants are
                not often used for old sick rich people, but for children. It all gives me
                the feeling of Frankensteins being created, and for me it's an example of a
                seeming "good" actually being "harmful" instead.

                You mention SARS and West Nile Fever, both of which appear to be among the
                so-called "arising diseases," so to say, as is HIV/AIDS. Off and on there
                have been many diseases seemingly standing out more than perhaps others may
                be, and I wonder if perhaps the potential as well as the newness of such
                mostly "unheard of before" conditions may play a part in publicizing these
                things. The potential deadliness of these things is definitely to be taken
                seriously, it seems, as well as their seeming to be par for the course in
                some way for these current times. Twice I myself have survived pneumonia as
                well as other diseases and I feel many more exoteric as well as esoteric
                diseases will be playing far more important roles in our lives and in the
                world itself, but my feelings on these matters may perhaps be slanted due
                to my work.

                Next time, maybe we could hear more about your music? It's certainly a
                great part of my life.

                Cheers!
                Sheila

                > >Dear Sheila, & Folks;
                > Thanks for the reply; I'd be very
                > interested in references to Steiner's other comments re: film. I know
                > that he warned about recordings as having deleterious, attractive
                > influences on departed souls (i.e., attracting them back to earthly
                > affairs), due to the penetrating power of voice, but I haven't
                > referenced that either. As a musician, I had an old prejudice
                > about 'dead guys' clogging up the industry, and disallowing the young
                > artists from making a reasonable living, or often even being heard;
                > but Steiner added quite another dimension to the problem!
                > I'd also appreciate your pointing to which Steiner comments
                > made you think of the issue of transplants as a 'health' method...
                > way back when, I wondered (and still do) how many otherwise healthy
                > children starve to death for the money spend keeping deathly
                > sick 'rich' folks going. Bad, bad Karma there. Also, have you
                > noticed? SARS and West Nile Virus are practically hysterical in the
                > press. I figure that's why the hundreds of sick US forces personnel
                > in Iraq have 'deadly pneumonia' instead of SARS - symptoms are the
                > same, death rate is the same (low), but if you said SARS, the press
                > would have to talk about it for months, whereas 'deadly pneumonia,
                > well... I've seen it reported once on CBS, then you don't have to
                > talk about it. And up here in Canada we've had 2 deaths from WNV...
                > but one of them was a 92 year old with pneumonia -But he died from
                > WEST NILE. Even a farce like that has to be talked up.
                >
                > Take care and give care, Rick
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