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Re: [steiner] Re: Mujamba [The Desert Cult]

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  • LilOleMissy
    Dear Rick and Friends, WOW! What enormous vistas to attempt to disgest! Rick, I may have *Foundations of Esotericism* and I m very glad you gave the date,
    Message 1 of 3 , Aug 24, 2003
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      Dear Rick and Friends,

      WOW! What enormous vistas to attempt to "disgest!" Rick, I may have
      *Foundations of Esotericism* and I'm very glad you gave the date, since my
      library is so old and partly "home made" from my typing my own copies from
      borrowed books, etc., that I've arranged it via dates - I do recall
      Steiner's words about the sleeping people, however, so perhaps it's a matter
      of taking the time to look thoroughly. Steiner gave us so very much - I find
      myself trying not to "flit" from one point to another, preferring to attempt
      an understanding of an overall view, but then that's impossible for me, at
      least. Steiner very often mentioned how "out of date" matters and/or
      "things" become sources for evil, and if one only thinks but a little, it is
      easy to recognize how such things deteriorate.

      I was interested in your experience in ecological surveys and related
      aspects since for years I've considered myself a "conservative
      environmentalist" somewhat in the realm of Rachel Carson, and perhaps my
      changed thinking is due to events I see occurring in my "neck of the woods"
      and related areas. Here we have the somewhat open acres of the Salinas
      Valley in California, one of the most fertile agricultural areas of the
      world, standing under the tight fisted control of the tourist based heavily
      populated Monterey/Pebble Beach/Carmel etc. interests without equipoise or
      seeming "meeting of minds" of any sort. The battle is over water rights and
      land usage - water for urbanization, tourists and golf versus water for
      agriculture to fuel a multi-billion dollar industry feeding so many
      world-wide. The vast majority of wine grapes for California wines are grown
      in this Valley with new vinyards being planted every year as lesser crops
      are dropped. Perhaps we should simply all imbibe in this product and forget
      eating for long periods ot time. I've viewed the scene from both sides,
      having lived and practiced medicine in both areas, but agriculture is slowly
      but most assuredly going under in the interests of scarce resources being
      diverted to tourism.

      Next, I see such treasures as Yosemite, Point Reyes National Seashore, "The
      Lost Coast" of the Mendacino Coast, etc. being "fenced off," so to say, from
      public usage to "preserve national treasures," and indeed they are such
      treasures. In order to enter Yosemite, one must board a barebones bus for a
      tour of the Valley and right out again without a single stop inbetween. I'm
      so thankful to have parked my camper in the high country to look down a mile
      into the Valley below and to watch the brown bears climbing trees in the old
      days, but that is no longer allowed. People are being banned more and more.

      For perhaps 100 miles up and down our coastline here and from 30 to 100
      miles out to Sea, The Monterey Bay National Marine Sanctuary was established
      along with a locally controlled Marine area banning tide pool exploration
      and walking on the sand dunes in order for otters and California Sea Lions
      to proliferate in the "forbidden to touch" huge beds of kelp growing wild up
      from the sea bed below, and so far this year drowning 5 scuba divers who
      became entangled in this enormous sea plant. Yes, I am favorable to
      preserving kelp to a sensible degree, and it is used in laboratory work and
      food as well as many other resources, but mankind seemingly is attempting to
      "control the very world and how it exists" in this area over the lives of
      human beings. Much of my knowledge from "behind the scenes," so to say,
      derives from my son, who works for a local marine research institute, but
      the facts are there for anyone to see who has eyes to see. Surely there
      should be a middleground for common sense, and it is with some amusement
      many of us watch the overgrowth of otters and CA Sea Lions boarding sail and
      fishing boats as well as piers, all the while decimating other native sea
      life and depriving many long-time residents of any possibility of
      maintaining their very livlihoods. Surely there is room for a balanced all,
      including cruise ships which frequently enter into port? Balanced moderation
      in all things seems to be foreign to this particular area, but these same
      situations exist everywhere in their own particular venue.

      The "desert cult" seems to strengthen with each passing day with one left
      wondering how it is so unrecognized, and certainly there appears world wide
      an enormous resurgence of the so-called Black Arts, although apparently
      under a differing guise. Steiner remarked more than once how "sleepy people"
      become more and more, and as events progress at ever increasing speeds,
      perhaps we all should at least try a far deepened Spiritual approach.

      Thanks for your thoughts, Rick - they are indeed appreciated very much.

      Blessings to All,
      Sheila

      > --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "LilOleMissy" <lilolemissy@e...>
      > wrote:
      > Dear Sheila and Folks;
      > Thanks for your interest and musings. I worked doind ecological
      > surveys for years, and your comments on that vein show a pretty
      > observant attitude. All the 'best' ecologists headed off to nature
      > reserves and unspoiled wilderness, leaving the crucial agricultural
      > lands in the hands of... greed, there's no other brief word for
      > it. "Landscrape starkitechture" and "economic development" are not
      > ecologically planned at all, and represent one of the most intense
      > and insidious experiments on the face of the planet. The idea that
      > you can put fences around a 'nature reserve' and somehow protect it,
      > or stabilize the landscape, is at best a desperate fantasy, and at
      > worst a planned chimera to distract people from what's really going
      > on.
      >
      > The 'desert cult' has been plying its trade for millenia; you can
      > read specifics in descriptions in the Old Testament, or the writings
      > of old Herotodus... pretty disgusting, as are the more recent
      > revivals, which are becoming more evil as they become more and more
      > out of date.
      >
      > Steiner never elaborated much on the Black Magicians. The most I've
      > come across in in his Mexican Mysteries and Templars cycle. But I
      > happen to have a brief, early comment on file, which I've attached
      > below.
      >
      > "In the night therefore we find in astral space the sleeping
      > bodies, or the pupils with their Masters, in so far as someone who
      > has formed a tie which unites him with the Master, through an
      > appropriate meditation, is led towards him. This is what can happen
      > during the night. It is possible for everyone by immersing himself in
      > inspired writings to reach the point of taking part in such
      > intercourse and through this to attain to the development of his
      > higher self. What in the course of some thousands of years will
      > become our self is now the higher self. In order however really to
      > get to know the higher self we must seek for it where it already is
      > to-day, with the higher individuals. This is the communication of the
      > pupils with the Master.
      > "Something else that we can meet with in astral space is the
      > black magician with his pupils. In order to train himself to become a
      > black magician, the pupil has to go through a special schooling. The
      > training in black magic consists in a person becoming accustomed,
      > under methodical instruction, to torture, to cut, to kill animals.
      > This is the A B C. When the human being consciously tortures living
      > creatures it has a definite result. The pain caused in this way, when
      > it is brought about intentionally, produces a quite definite effect
      > on the human astral body. When a person cuts consciously into a
      > particular organ this induces in him an increase in power.
      > "Now the basic principle of all white magic is that no power
      > can be gained without selfless devotion. When through such devotion
      > power is gained, it flows from the common life force of the universe.
      > If however we take its life-energy from some particular being, we
      > steal this life-energy. Because it belonged to a separate being it
      > densifies and strengthens the element of separateness in the person
      > who has appropriated it, and this intensification of separateness
      > make him suited to becoming the pupil of those who are engaged in
      > conflict with the good powers.
      > "For our Earth is a battle field; it is the scene of two
      > opposing powers: right and left. The one, the white power on the
      > right, after the Earth has reached a certain degree of material,
      > physical density, strives to spiritualize it once again. The other
      > power, the left or black power, strives to make the Earth even denser
      > and denser, like the moon. Thus after a period of time, the Earth
      > could become the physical expression for the good powers, or the
      > physical expression for the evil. It becomes the physical expression
      > for the good powers through man uniting himself with the spirits
      > working for unification, in that he seeks the ego in the community.
      > It belongs to the function of the earth to differentiate itself
      > physically to an ever greater degree. Now it is possible for the
      > separate parts to go their own way, for each part to form an ego.
      > This is the black path. The white path is the one which strives for
      > what is common, which forms an ego in community. Were we to burrow
      > more and more deeply into ourselves, to sink ourselves into our own
      > ego organisation, to desire always more and more for ourselves, the
      > final result would be that we should strive to separate ourselves for
      > one another. If on the other hand we draw closer, so that a common
      > spirit inspires us, so that a centre is formed between us, in our
      > midst, then we are drawn together, then we are united. To be a black
      > magician means to develop more and more the spirit of separateness.
      > There are black adepts who are on the way to acquire certain forces
      > of the earth for themselves. Were the circle of their pupils to
      > become so strong that this should prove possible, then the earth
      > would be on the path leading to destruction." (18 Oct. 1905, in:
      > Foundations of Esotericism, 1982, pp. 149-151)
      >
      >
      > Take Care and Give Care, Rick
    • Julie Heynssens
      Sheila, I too, have been questioning how to keep the wild places both wild and accesible. Yosemite suffers from too much popularity and an often inconsiderate
      Message 2 of 3 , Aug 25, 2003
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        Sheila,

        I too, have been questioning how to keep the wild
        places both wild and accesible. Yosemite suffers from
        too much popularity and an often inconsiderate public.
        I've seen dirty diapers and trash in Yosemite
        Falls. Last time we were in Yosemite, we chose to
        stay in the high country to get away from the valley.
        Even then, our peace was disrupted by the "bear
        technicians" that show up at the first hint of bear
        activity. They use loud sirens and noises to shoo the
        bears off campsites where people have inevitably left
        food lying around.

        I've been to Yellowstone and they don't have a huge
        problem with bears breaking into cars for food or
        foraging the campsites despite having an increasing
        bear population. The difference is that when people
        began to see the error of feeding bears, Yellowstone
        started eliminating problem bears from the ecosystem.
        Now Yellowstone has more bears than ever and much
        fewer problems than Yosemite.

        Yosemite let them live. The Yosemite bears teach
        their young how to forage from campsites, garbage
        cans, and cars. The cycle continues and the bears are
        not allowed to be the wild animals that they should
        be. Bears can't be re-educated into wildness.

        I think the point is that people often don't fully
        understand the consequences of their actions
        especially when fiddling with nature, whether in the
        name of conservation or development. Both sides will
        make costly mistakes that will not be understood for a
        generation or two. The best we can hope for is to
        learn and avoid excesses on both sides.

        Have Fun,

        Julie

        --- LilOleMissy <lilolemissy@...> wrote:
        > Dear Rick and Friends,
        >
        > WOW! What enormous vistas to attempt to "disgest!"
        > Rick, I may have
        > *Foundations of Esotericism* and I'm very glad you
        > gave the date, since my
        > library is so old and partly "home made" from my
        > typing my own copies from
        > borrowed books, etc., that I've arranged it via
        > dates - I do recall
        > Steiner's words about the sleeping people, however,
        > so perhaps it's a matter
        > of taking the time to look thoroughly. Steiner gave
        > us so very much - I find
        > myself trying not to "flit" from one point to
        > another, preferring to attempt
        > an understanding of an overall view, but then that's
        > impossible for me, at
        > least. Steiner very often mentioned how "out of
        > date" matters and/or
        > "things" become sources for evil, and if one only
        > thinks but a little, it is
        > easy to recognize how such things deteriorate.
        >
        > I was interested in your experience in ecological
        > surveys and related
        > aspects since for years I've considered myself a
        > "conservative
        > environmentalist" somewhat in the realm of Rachel
        > Carson, and perhaps my
        > changed thinking is due to events I see occurring in
        > my "neck of the woods"
        > and related areas. Here we have the somewhat open
        > acres of the Salinas
        > Valley in California, one of the most fertile
        > agricultural areas of the
        > world, standing under the tight fisted control of
        > the tourist based heavily
        > populated Monterey/Pebble Beach/Carmel etc.
        > interests without equipoise or
        > seeming "meeting of minds" of any sort. The battle
        > is over water rights and
        > land usage - water for urbanization, tourists and
        > golf versus water for
        > agriculture to fuel a multi-billion dollar industry
        > feeding so many
        > world-wide. The vast majority of wine grapes for
        > California wines are grown
        > in this Valley with new vinyards being planted every
        > year as lesser crops
        > are dropped. Perhaps we should simply all imbibe in
        > this product and forget
        > eating for long periods ot time. I've viewed the
        > scene from both sides,
        > having lived and practiced medicine in both areas,
        > but agriculture is slowly
        > but most assuredly going under in the interests of
        > scarce resources being
        > diverted to tourism.
        >
        > Next, I see such treasures as Yosemite, Point Reyes
        > National Seashore, "The
        > Lost Coast" of the Mendacino Coast, etc. being
        > "fenced off," so to say, from
        > public usage to "preserve national treasures," and
        > indeed they are such
        > treasures. In order to enter Yosemite, one must
        > board a barebones bus for a
        > tour of the Valley and right out again without a
        > single stop inbetween. I'm
        > so thankful to have parked my camper in the high
        > country to look down a mile
        > into the Valley below and to watch the brown bears
        > climbing trees in the old
        > days, but that is no longer allowed. People are
        > being banned more and more.
        >
        > For perhaps 100 miles up and down our coastline here
        > and from 30 to 100
        > miles out to Sea, The Monterey Bay National Marine
        > Sanctuary was established
        > along with a locally controlled Marine area banning
        > tide pool exploration
        > and walking on the sand dunes in order for otters
        > and California Sea Lions
        > to proliferate in the "forbidden to touch" huge beds
        > of kelp growing wild up
        > from the sea bed below, and so far this year
        > drowning 5 scuba divers who
        > became entangled in this enormous sea plant. Yes, I
        > am favorable to
        > preserving kelp to a sensible degree, and it is used
        > in laboratory work and
        > food as well as many other resources, but mankind
        > seemingly is attempting to
        > "control the very world and how it exists" in this
        > area over the lives of
        > human beings. Much of my knowledge from "behind the
        > scenes," so to say,
        > derives from my son, who works for a local marine
        > research institute, but
        > the facts are there for anyone to see who has eyes
        > to see. Surely there
        > should be a middleground for common sense, and it is
        > with some amusement
        > many of us watch the overgrowth of otters and CA Sea
        > Lions boarding sail and
        > fishing boats as well as piers, all the while
        > decimating other native sea
        > life and depriving many long-time residents of any
        > possibility of
        > maintaining their very livlihoods. Surely there is
        > room for a balanced all,
        > including cruise ships which frequently enter into
        > port? Balanced moderation
        > in all things seems to be foreign to this
        > particular area, but these same
        > situations exist everywhere in their own particular
        > venue.
        >
        > The "desert cult" seems to strengthen with each
        > passing day with one left
        > wondering how it is so unrecognized, and certainly
        > there appears world wide
        > an enormous resurgence of the so-called Black Arts,
        > although apparently
        > under a differing guise. Steiner remarked more than
        > once how "sleepy people"
        > become more and more, and as events progress at ever
        > increasing speeds,
        > perhaps we all should at least try a far deepened
        > Spiritual approach.
        >
        > Thanks for your thoughts, Rick - they are indeed
        > appreciated very much.
        >
        > Blessings to All,
        > Sheila
        >



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      • LilOleMissy
        Dear Julie, Much wisdom is packed into your thoughtful words, and I m very glad you felt an impulse to share them. Sometimes I wonder if Yosemite s popularity
        Message 3 of 3 , Aug 25, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          Dear Julie,

          Much wisdom is packed into your thoughtful words, and I'm very glad you felt
          an impulse to share them. Sometimes I wonder if Yosemite's popularity may
          perhaps be due to the enormous build up of surrounding areas as well as
          holding enormous beauty all its own! As you mention, I, too, have seen
          trash littering many areas there and also the further carelessness of those
          who walk away from their campsites without using sufficient common sense to
          keep their food supplies inaccessible from bears. Such individuals are
          always shocked and distressed to find their camps torn to shreds, and many
          times I've seen brown bears sitting on picnic tables seemingly "waiting to
          be served!" :) It seems the primary difficulty might be lack of
          self-responsibility on the part of those who should know better, since
          everyone has a lot of warning against such thoughtlessness. One difficulty
          is the scarcity of wildlife staff and equipment to haul such bears off into
          the ever narrowing "hinterlands" to hopefully take their time returning. At
          the same time, far too many visitors are excitedly pointing out these wild
          creatures to their children with no regard for the hazards involved in such
          silly behavior. But the majority of visitors seem far too savvy to conduct
          themselves so stupidly. Perhaps what disturbs me more than any of this,
          though, is the fact that private groups are to have access to Yosemite as
          they now have at The Lost Coast, where they visit via helicoptor and small
          private jets! ACK!

          Yellowstone, Grand Tetons and Glacier Nat. Parks all have re-introduced
          wolves which greatly control the bear populations as well as these National
          Park treasures being far more isolated from urban areas as well as being so
          immense, although Grand Teton is the smallest even if it is essentially
          isolated as compared to anything in California or other highly urbanized
          areas. When I lived in Montana there were far more grizzles than perhaps
          currently, and the enormous size of other such places where grizzles
          congregate include the Bitterroot Range, one of the most beautiful areas
          I've ever seen. The introduction of wolves into that area was bitterly
          fought against by the very scarce human populations from within Idaho and up
          to Yolo Pass near Hamilton, Montana, but "the wolves' cheering sections"
          have prevailed and further harm has come to the Nez Perce who's reservation
          is somewhat to the east.

          My next door neighbor works for the Federal Park System, and I'm regularly
          shocked by the combination of ever increasing stern restrictions and a
          partly "I don't care" public! You're right, Julie, that people so often
          don't understand, but the time is approaching when there is truly little
          time left to learn an understanding! This is of great concern to me and so
          many others. I shall never forget the sight from some years back of seeing 2
          frightened deer standing in the middle of Yellowstone River as everything
          surrounding them burned to cinders - we escaped, but they had no chance.
          Education, common sense and self-responsibility may be an answer, but I
          often wonder how much more these isolated areas will be able to withstand.
          All we can do is our best in the interests of all, and this also applies to
          each other as well. Thanks, Julie, for causing me to think a bit more. :)

          Blessings,

          Sheila

          > Sheila,
          >
          > I too, have been questioning how to keep the wild
          > places both wild and accesible. Yosemite suffers from
          > too much popularity and an often inconsiderate public.
          > I've seen dirty diapers and trash in Yosemite
          > Falls. Last time we were in Yosemite, we chose to
          > stay in the high country to get away from the valley.
          > Even then, our peace was disrupted by the "bear
          > technicians" that show up at the first hint of bear
          > activity. They use loud sirens and noises to shoo the
          > bears off campsites where people have inevitably left
          > food lying around.
          >
          > I've been to Yellowstone and they don't have a huge
          > problem with bears breaking into cars for food or
          > foraging the campsites despite having an increasing
          > bear population. The difference is that when people
          > began to see the error of feeding bears, Yellowstone
          > started eliminating problem bears from the ecosystem.
          > Now Yellowstone has more bears than ever and much
          > fewer problems than Yosemite.
          >
          > Yosemite let them live. The Yosemite bears teach
          > their young how to forage from campsites, garbage
          > cans, and cars. The cycle continues and the bears are
          > not allowed to be the wild animals that they should
          > be. Bears can't be re-educated into wildness.
          >
          > I think the point is that people often don't fully
          > understand the consequences of their actions
          > especially when fiddling with nature, whether in the
          > name of conservation or development. Both sides will
          > make costly mistakes that will not be understood for a
          > generation or two. The best we can hope for is to
          > learn and avoid excesses on both sides.
          >
          > Have Fun,
          >
          > Julie
          >
          > --- LilOleMissy <lilolemissy@...> wrote:
          > > Dear Rick and Friends,
          > >
          > > WOW! What enormous vistas to attempt to "disgest!"
          > > Rick, I may have
          > > *Foundations of Esotericism* and I'm very glad you
          > > gave the date, since my
          > > library is so old and partly "home made" from my
          > > typing my own copies from
          > > borrowed books, etc., that I've arranged it via
          > > dates - I do recall
          > > Steiner's words about the sleeping people, however,
          > > so perhaps it's a matter
          > > of taking the time to look thoroughly. Steiner gave
          > > us so very much - I find
          > > myself trying not to "flit" from one point to
          > > another, preferring to attempt
          > > an understanding of an overall view, but then that's
          > > impossible for me, at
          > > least. Steiner very often mentioned how "out of
          > > date" matters and/or
          > > "things" become sources for evil, and if one only
          > > thinks but a little, it is
          > > easy to recognize how such things deteriorate.
          > >
          > > I was interested in your experience in ecological
          > > surveys and related
          > > aspects since for years I've considered myself a
          > > "conservative
          > > environmentalist" somewhat in the realm of Rachel
          > > Carson, and perhaps my
          > > changed thinking is due to events I see occurring in
          > > my "neck of the woods"
          > > and related areas. Here we have the somewhat open
          > > acres of the Salinas
          > > Valley in California, one of the most fertile
          > > agricultural areas of the
          > > world, standing under the tight fisted control of
          > > the tourist based heavily
          > > populated Monterey/Pebble Beach/Carmel etc.
          > > interests without equipoise or
          > > seeming "meeting of minds" of any sort. The battle
          > > is over water rights and
          > > land usage - water for urbanization, tourists and
          > > golf versus water for
          > > agriculture to fuel a multi-billion dollar industry
          > > feeding so many
          > > world-wide. The vast majority of wine grapes for
          > > California wines are grown
          > > in this Valley with new vinyards being planted every
          > > year as lesser crops
          > > are dropped. Perhaps we should simply all imbibe in
          > > this product and forget
          > > eating for long periods ot time. I've viewed the
          > > scene from both sides,
          > > having lived and practiced medicine in both areas,
          > > but agriculture is slowly
          > > but most assuredly going under in the interests of
          > > scarce resources being
          > > diverted to tourism.
          > >
          > > Next, I see such treasures as Yosemite, Point Reyes
          > > National Seashore, "The
          > > Lost Coast" of the Mendacino Coast, etc. being
          > > "fenced off," so to say, from
          > > public usage to "preserve national treasures," and
          > > indeed they are such
          > > treasures. In order to enter Yosemite, one must
          > > board a barebones bus for a
          > > tour of the Valley and right out again without a
          > > single stop inbetween. I'm
          > > so thankful to have parked my camper in the high
          > > country to look down a mile
          > > into the Valley below and to watch the brown bears
          > > climbing trees in the old
          > > days, but that is no longer allowed. People are
          > > being banned more and more.
          > >
          > > For perhaps 100 miles up and down our coastline here
          > > and from 30 to 100
          > > miles out to Sea, The Monterey Bay National Marine
          > > Sanctuary was established
          > > along with a locally controlled Marine area banning
          > > tide pool exploration
          > > and walking on the sand dunes in order for otters
          > > and California Sea Lions
          > > to proliferate in the "forbidden to touch" huge beds
          > > of kelp growing wild up
          > > from the sea bed below, and so far this year
          > > drowning 5 scuba divers who
          > > became entangled in this enormous sea plant. Yes, I
          > > am favorable to
          > > preserving kelp to a sensible degree, and it is used
          > > in laboratory work and
          > > food as well as many other resources, but mankind
          > > seemingly is attempting to
          > > "control the very world and how it exists" in this
          > > area over the lives of
          > > human beings. Much of my knowledge from "behind the
          > > scenes," so to say,
          > > derives from my son, who works for a local marine
          > > research institute, but
          > > the facts are there for anyone to see who has eyes
          > > to see. Surely there
          > > should be a middleground for common sense, and it is
          > > with some amusement
          > > many of us watch the overgrowth of otters and CA Sea
          > > Lions boarding sail and
          > > fishing boats as well as piers, all the while
          > > decimating other native sea
          > > life and depriving many long-time residents of any
          > > possibility of
          > > maintaining their very livlihoods. Surely there is
          > > room for a balanced all,
          > > including cruise ships which frequently enter into
          > > port? Balanced moderation
          > > in all things seems to be foreign to this
          > > particular area, but these same
          > > situations exist everywhere in their own particular
          > > venue.
          > >
          > > The "desert cult" seems to strengthen with each
          > > passing day with one left
          > > wondering how it is so unrecognized, and certainly
          > > there appears world wide
          > > an enormous resurgence of the so-called Black Arts,
          > > although apparently
          > > under a differing guise. Steiner remarked more than
          > > once how "sleepy people"
          > > become more and more, and as events progress at ever
          > > increasing speeds,
          > > perhaps we all should at least try a far deepened
          > > Spiritual approach.
          > >
          > > Thanks for your thoughts, Rick - they are indeed
          > > appreciated very much.
          > >
          > > Blessings to All,
          > > Sheila
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