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Re: [steiner] Re: Mujamba

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  • LilOleMissy
    Hi, Rick and All, It seems to me Steiner mentions somewhere about Black Magic involving slicing living flesh and enjoying doing so - I don t know where among
    Message 1 of 5 , Aug 23 12:43 AM
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      Hi, Rick and All,

      It seems to me Steiner mentions somewhere about Black Magic involving
      slicing living flesh and enjoying doing so - I don't know where among
      Steiner's works I came across that, and I also wonder if Ahrimanic deeds are
      always Black Magic or another evil? I'm interested in what is meant by
      "...the whole cult of the desert..." - I'm new to that and feel I need to
      know more about it. When I look at what little I know of history, it seems
      all dictators and such rule others on the basis of their, the victims'
      weaknesses, but I wonder about other ways, too. I try to put myself in the
      victim's role of being ruled by a despot of some sort, and it's possible I
      might only encourage that by my own fear of that despot, which of course is
      a weakness allowing my being ruled. But could anything be that "simple?"

      Rick, you're right that occult matters are different from Black Magic,
      backward spiritual practices, etc. The very word OCCULT simply means hidden
      or hidden with the possibility of being found. It seems "occult" matters
      have always existed, and the Black Arts have only arisen due to their
      deterioration and/or misuse, deliberately or otherwise. It seems Occult
      practices have always existed, and mostly in a right way for the betterment
      of all. Sometimes I think of those who are very strong "environmentalists"
      sincerely dedicated to the preservation of this or that species, and wonder
      about the effects of such measures - something that is not meant to continue
      to exist beyond a given time would seem to fall into decadence and error,
      and I was thinking of this recently while reading of a project to use DNA to
      "create" a mastadon. This and similar concepts appear retrogressive, and
      therefore among the Black Arts, but in thinking for one's self, how on earth
      could a mastadon exist in this world today? It seems I'm constantly reminded
      of such things due to the enormous work and expense involved in "saving the
      condors" in my area, and this project seems doomed to failure regardless of
      what measures are undertaken. Mankind seems to be "playing God," so to say,
      although I don't say saving condors falls into that category. I just don't
      know.

      Cheers,

      Sheila

      > Hi, Folks;
      > Steiner repeatedly asserted that the ABC of black magic
      > was the inflicting of pain on others to the personal delight of the
      > perpetrator... sodamn insane and da bois may not have been the XYZ,
      > but there's lots of evidence they were past the "c's". Also, the
      > whole cult of the desert operates on the Ahrimanic principle of
      > ruling people on the basis of their weaknesses, and has so since
      > before Moslem times.
      > Another issue that is hard to overcome but must be, is the
      > perpetual identification of "occult" with bogey-man spirituality. I
      > personally feel that the bread and wine of Steiner's work was to
      > reinforce again and again the incredible benefit that has flowed to
      > mankind from the "occult" workings, first of the Mysteries and later
      > of the Christian Monks. Lets call the "occult" of Ahriman what it is,
      > i.e. Black Magic.
      >
      > Take Care and Give Care, Rick
    • S
      ... Condor rehab is not doing to well? That s a bummer =( C
      Message 2 of 5 , Aug 23 10:08 AM
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        On 8/23/03 12:43 AM, "LilOleMissy" <lilolemissy@...> wrote:
        > It seems I'm constantly reminded
        > of such things due to the enormous work and expense involved in "saving the
        > condors" in my area, and this project seems doomed to failure regardless of
        > what measures are undertaken.
        >

        Condor rehab is not doing to well? That's a bummer =(

        C
      • rickbobbs
        ... Thanks for your interest and musings. I worked doind ecological surveys for years, and your comments on that vein show a pretty observant attitude. All the
        Message 3 of 5 , Aug 23 10:58 AM
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          --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "LilOleMissy" <lilolemissy@e...>
          wrote:
          > Dear Sheila and Folks;
          Thanks for your interest and musings. I worked doind ecological
          surveys for years, and your comments on that vein show a pretty
          observant attitude. All the 'best' ecologists headed off to nature
          reserves and unspoiled wilderness, leaving the crucial agricultural
          lands in the hands of... greed, there's no other brief word for
          it. "Landscrape starkitechture" and "economic development" are not
          ecologically planned at all, and represent one of the most intense
          and insidious experiments on the face of the planet. The idea that
          you can put fences around a 'nature reserve' and somehow protect it,
          or stabilize the landscape, is at best a desperate fantasy, and at
          worst a planned chimera to distract people from what's really going
          on.

          The 'desert cult' has been plying its trade for millenia; you can
          read specifics in descriptions in the Old Testament, or the writings
          of old Herotodus... pretty disgusting, as are the more recent
          revivals, which are becoming more evil as they become more and more
          out of date.

          Steiner never elaborated much on the Black Magicians. The most I've
          come across in in his Mexican Mysteries and Templars cycle. But I
          happen to have a brief, early comment on file, which I've attached
          below.

          > "In the night therefore we find in astral space the sleeping
          bodies, or the pupils with their Masters, in so far as someone who
          has formed a tie which unites him with the Master, through an
          appropriate meditation, is led towards him. This is what can happen
          during the night. It is possible for everyone by immersing himself in
          inspired writings to reach the point of taking part in such
          intercourse and through this to attain to the development of his
          higher self. What in the course of some thousands of years will
          become our self is now the higher self. In order however really to
          get to know the higher self we must seek for it where it already is
          to-day, with the higher individuals. This is the communication of the
          pupils with the Master.
          "Something else that we can meet with in astral space is the
          black magician with his pupils. In order to train himself to become a
          black magician, the pupil has to go through a special schooling. The
          training in black magic consists in a person becoming accustomed,
          under methodical instruction, to torture, to cut, to kill animals.
          This is the A B C. When the human being consciously tortures living
          creatures it has a definite result. The pain caused in this way, when
          it is brought about intentionally, produces a quite definite effect
          on the human astral body. When a person cuts consciously into a
          particular organ this induces in him an increase in power.
          "Now the basic principle of all white magic is that no power
          can be gained without selfless devotion. When through such devotion
          power is gained, it flows from the common life force of the universe.
          If however we take its life-energy from some particular being, we
          steal this life-energy. Because it belonged to a separate being it
          densifies and strengthens the element of separateness in the person
          who has appropriated it, and this intensification of separateness
          make him suited to becoming the pupil of those who are engaged in
          conflict with the good powers.
          "For our Earth is a battle field; it is the scene of two
          opposing powers: right and left. The one, the white power on the
          right, after the Earth has reached a certain degree of material,
          physical density, strives to spiritualize it once again. The other
          power, the left or black power, strives to make the Earth even denser
          and denser, like the moon. Thus after a period of time, the Earth
          could become the physical expression for the good powers, or the
          physical expression for the evil. It becomes the physical expression
          for the good powers through man uniting himself with the spirits
          working for unification, in that he seeks the ego in the community.
          It belongs to the function of the earth to differentiate itself
          physically to an ever greater degree. Now it is possible for the
          separate parts to go their own way, for each part to form an ego.
          This is the black path. The white path is the one which strives for
          what is common, which forms an ego in community. Were we to burrow
          more and more deeply into ourselves, to sink ourselves into our own
          ego organisation, to desire always more and more for ourselves, the
          final result would be that we should strive to separate ourselves for
          one another. If on the other hand we draw closer, so that a common
          spirit inspires us, so that a centre is formed between us, in our
          midst, then we are drawn together, then we are united. To be a black
          magician means to develop more and more the spirit of separateness.
          There are black adepts who are on the way to acquire certain forces
          of the earth for themselves. Were the circle of their pupils to
          become so strong that this should prove possible, then the earth
          would be on the path leading to destruction." (18 Oct. 1905, in:
          Foundations of Esotericism, 1982, pp. 149-151)


          > > Take Care and Give Care, Rick
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