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Re: [Steiner] Infectious Disease

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  • LilOleMissy
    Dear George, I find your two postings interesting in that I have worked in medicine for many years, and the only possible definitive answers to your excellent
    Message 1 of 15 , Feb 20, 2003
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      Dear George,

      I find your two postings interesting in that I have worked in medicine for
      many years, and the only possible definitive answers to your excellent
      questions would necessarily have to come from your own doctor who knows you
      well, or an expert in these fields. Even then, it's difficult to approach
      these matters. Over all, I've found the popular medical sources more what I
      term "fear mongers" than factual, although there is sufficient fact in a
      material sense to justify their legality. I'm not a materialistic medical
      person, although my training and much of my practice has firm materialistic
      roots, so to say.

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "George Thomas" <social_artist@...>
      To: <steiner@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 2:55 PM
      Subject: [Steiner] Infectious Disease


      > I'm writing in regard to current modern medicine and
      > its approach to infectious disease. There's a new
      > strain of staph that is going around in California.
      > It is mostly a problem affecting the skin at this
      > point. It is resistant to many of the common
      > antibiotics.
      >
      > Here is a link to an article on WebMD:
      >
      http://my.webmd.com/content/article/60/66950.htm?lastselectedguid={5FE84E90-
      BC77-4056-A91C-9531713CA348}

      First, I'd like to state this article is speaking of an old and very
      specific bacterium, Staphlycoccus aureus. The first name denotes the genera
      or family, while the second specifies it more closely, as in this case aurus
      means white, as is evident in the "pus" as well as colonies seen as white.
      There are far too many species of Staphlococci to list them all here, but
      before the advent of antibiotics [penicillin], S. aureus was [and still is]
      a frequent source of the more minor afflictions such as boils, pimples and
      other more or less temporarily diseased conditions in healthy people as well
      as such things as tonsillitis, ear infections and more serious conditions,
      although the latter are usually more related to the Streptococci species.
      They, the Staph, have always been deadly among those with weakened immune
      responses, age and coinciding other disease states. Like all bacterium,
      virii, etc. severe or deadly disease states have gradually increased in
      severity and frequency, largely due to the mutations undergone by these and
      other organisms themselves in response to antibiotics. Unless my information
      is erroneous, this specific strain of the Staph family, Staphlococcus
      aureus, is the leading cause of all hospital acquired infections and/or
      deaths. This is one reason we notice people are hospitalized for as short a
      period of time as possible.
      >
      > According to what I've read, it apparently started
      > with babies and has moved into the gay male
      > population, particularly in health clubs and other
      > places warm and moist. There are concerns that it
      > will soon be popping up in day care centers.

      In order to grow and spread, Staph aureus must have a good medium,
      temperature and moisture level in order to thrive, as is found in day care
      centers, health clubs, schools, military quarters, etc. where numerous
      people are in contact. The bacterium is spread via all body fluids, whether
      by inhalation, touching, contaminated surfaces, clothing or other shared
      objects, etc.
      >
      > Here's also a related article on a vaccine that is to
      > be effective against staph infections:
      >
      http://my.webmd.com/content/article/24/1821_50297.htm?lastselectedguid={5FE8
      4E90-BC77-4056-A91C-9531713CA348}
      >
      > I'm putting this out here curious to hear how others
      > on the list take such news, as it appears to be a
      > problem we'll have to deal with ever increasingly now
      > that more and more bugs are becoming immune to our
      > medicines.

      In all honesty, I know little or nothing of a vacinne effective against this
      species, but that certainly isn't to say there is none - I don't know.
      Cleanliness and good health habits, especially hand washing, diet and
      sufficient rest, are always a primary concern in containing such disease
      agents.
      >
      > Personally, I'm in the process of deciding whether or
      > not to have myself vaccinated against Hep A and B.
      > Hep B vaccination requires a series of three shots. I
      > received two shots when I was working in a group home
      > in Montana, but I left the state before finishing the
      > series. Despite the fact that no living viruses are
      > used in the vaccine, I had an adverse reaction to the
      > shots I received and was nauseous for a day or so
      > following each. Supposedly, this doesn't happen with
      > such a vaccine, but it did happen to me, though it
      > could have been something else only "coincidentally"
      > related to the shots. The experience soured me on the
      > idea of receiving any further vaccinations. Now,
      > almost 10 years later, I'm planning a trip to Costa
      > Rica. My fear of Hep infection is strong enough to
      > have me thinking of taking the shots again. I'm
      > measuring my concern for possibly getting sick with my
      > concern that these vaccines and medicines need to be
      > used cautiously because otherwise they serve to make
      > some diseases worse or even create new problems
      > altogether, as in the case of normally occuring
      > bacteria that is beneficial to the body but has begun
      > to mutate into something dangerous through the
      > overuse/misuse of antibiotics.

      George, I certainly relate to the hepatitis, having barely survived
      hepatitis A at age 21. This particular strain of the virii is spread via the
      fecal oral route, usually in food and/or water, but also by insufficient
      hand washing. Once recovered, there is some immunity for life, if "they" are
      correct.

      In the case of hepatitis B, this strain of the virus is acquired mainly via
      exchange of bodily fluids, as in blood transfusions, etc. and is far more
      serious than type A. To my knowledge, there is usually some degree of
      listlessness and "not feeling well" for several days following the
      immunizations given against this particular type, but it shouldn't be
      prolonged or severe. The danger of hepatitis B is in its chronicity,
      elevated rate of liver cancer and possible liver failure some years
      following the initial acute disease state. Antibiotics seem to have
      extremely limited if any effect against these virii and there are very few
      medications which have an effect on them. It seems to me the newer drugs
      being used against the HIV/AIDS virii are showing some promise, but the
      issue is debatable for now. I haven't sufficient knowledge in these realms
      to advise anyone, sad to say, and your best choice would be to hopefully
      visit an M.D. specializing in hepatic [liver] disease states. It's possible
      you may have sufficient antibiodies against hepatitis B to warrant only a
      shortened course of vacinne, but this is problematic and would be ruled out
      one way or another via blood tests.

      George, I wouldn't doubt there are many medications and drugs in the
      psychotropic fields to prevent spiritual thoughts. I don't know that they
      would necessarily be termed "vaccines," but what's in a name? Psychotropic
      drugs of any type distort the Ego, etheric and/or astral bodies as well as
      the physical body, and any time that occurs, it would seem to me one would
      not be able to form true spiritual thoughts. The only reference I can think
      of at this very moment is in Steiner's "The Effects of Oc. Development on
      the Etheric Body and Sheaths of Man" and one instance is where Steiner
      refers to alcohol - specifically wine, I believe, alluding to the
      impossibility of attaining Spirituality because of it. Alcohol takes the
      place of the Ego, and it's as though it shoves the Ego aside and "takes
      over." Dr. Starman certainly will know the reply to this.

      I'm sorry not to have been able to give you more and better answers, George.
      It is increasingly becoming difficult for me to rack my mind in the
      materialistic view which is attuned to modern medicine and it is so very
      rare to find Anthroposophical Medicine, although that would be the best of
      all sources! Hopefully you might have recourse to a Waldorf School or
      Anthroposophical group to lead you to a qualified source.

      I so deeply wish you well and having lived in Montana and loved it, I'm
      reliving those wonderful times I spent there, but new adventures await you
      now.

      Best,

      Sheila

      > Please let me know your thoughts and feelings if so
      > inclined.
      >
      > Thank you-
      > -George
    • LilOleMissy
      Julie, you re already familiar with our area, then. How great Gwen has read Cannery Row, and she may also enjoy Steinbeck s *East of Eden* which is placed in
      Message 2 of 15 , Feb 20, 2003
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        Julie, you're already familiar with our area, then. How great Gwen has read
        "Cannery Row," and she may also enjoy Steinbeck's *East of Eden* which is
        placed in the same area but taking in the Salinas Valley as well! Steinbeck
        was born in Salinas, and this work is about his family, but what is so
        striking about it to me is that it's a wonderful Cain/Abel work plus
        incorporating true Evil in the novel. When I came across these same aspects
        in Steiner's works, I thought back to this work of Steinbeck's, and it was
        so very clear to me! The old film with James Dean was largely made in the
        Valley, and other than more houses, there isn't much difference in the
        scenery.

        Isn't it absolutely wonderful to come across such careful and conscientious
        people as at Highland Hall as well as the bookstore in Pasadena?! We deeply
        appreciate such conscientiousness far more than we expect, and it's such a
        wonderful experience. There is a large bookstore up this way in Carmel [3
        miles from Monterey] which a very lovely lady runs all alone with her
        husband, and it's as large as the local Borders! The owner is having to sell
        out after so many years and I so hope the successor stocks as many of
        Steiner's works! I really was fortunate one day to run in there to see if
        any new titles had arrived, and thought I saw "Karma of Vocation," which I
        snapped up, only to find later I had "The Karma of Untruthfulness!" ACK, I
        said - I never heard of this one! But I can't describe how important it
        truly is. I'm either blind from reading so much or this one work is packed
        full with so much I'm only now realizing after so long! Since there are no
        coincidences, it's an even greater treasure to have gained it
        "accidentally!" :)

        I'm happy you and Gwen visited the Aquarium, and it's quite special, I
        think. Our son works at their research institute half way around the Bay,
        and that's where they have their deep water submersible, the Rov, for
        investigating the 2 mile deep underwater canyon in the Bay there. Other
        things go on there as well, since much of their work is tied up with NOAA.
        That's a fun place, too! I so hope some of your camping has been along The
        Big Sur Highway! What a tremendous meeting of mountains marching down to the
        sea!

        Warm Thoughts,

        Sheila


        > Sheila, we've been to Monterey a few times to visit
        > the aquarium and camp along the coast. In fact, Gwen
        > has just finished reading Cannery Row.
        >
        > I've met some really wonderful people at Highland Hall
        > and at the Anthroposophy bookstore in Pasadena. I
        > thought that all of the caring and consideration to
        > detail was lost in today's world. It was nice meeting
        > thoughtful people in urban California and was a real
        > wake up call for me.
        >
        > In Tucson, the kids were in a one room Montessori
        > schoolhouse near the University. Most of the kids
        > parents were associated with the University and the
        > kids were truely free spirits. I really miss that
        > atmosphere and am glad that I found Highland Hall.
        >
        > Have Fun,
        >
        > Julie
        >
        > --- LilOleMissy <lilolemissy@...> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > Julie, I'm so very glad about your daughter! This
        > > world so badly needs such souls as she and you, too.
        > > Northridge is beautiful, and I'm in Monterey County
        > > on the coast [California] - wouldn't it be wonderful
        > > to meet?!!!! Rudolf Steiner College is just about
        > > 200 miles NE of me! Keep in touch?
        > >
        > > Warm Thoughts,
        > >
        > > Sheila
      • Deanne Salazar <khobar23@yahoo.com>
        Greetings, Now that we re on the subject, there is a program here at the Austin Waldorf School for Foundational Studies...wishing I could afford it!!! Cheers,
        Message 3 of 15 , Feb 21, 2003
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          Greetings,
          Now that we're on the subject, there is a program here at the Austin
          Waldorf School for Foundational Studies...wishing I could afford
          it!!! Cheers, Deanne
        • Julie Heynssens
          The Montessori Method is more materialistic. They use multi-sensory techniques to drill in the same numbers and letters that they would get anywhere else.
          Message 4 of 15 , Feb 23, 2003
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            The Montessori Method is more materialistic. They use
            multi-sensory techniques to drill in the same numbers
            and letters that they would get anywhere else. There
            is no attention to spiritual matters or just time to
            be in awe of their surrondings. However, the school
            that my kids went to had a director that was trained
            as an artist in France so there was a lot more art,
            and attention to detail that you would find in a
            regular school. The kids were allowed to progress at
            their own pace. So my daughter didn't get put down
            because she was slow with letters and quick to draw
            beautiful pictures. Maria Montessori worked mostly
            with 3-8 year olds so her techniques are geared toward
            that age group.

            My understanding of the early years of Waldorf is that
            the teachers try to instill a sense of wonder about
            the world in the children and letters and numbers
            aren't introduced until grade school. There are told
            stories, they paint, they bake bread, they knit, they
            develop their creative capacities and leave the book
            learning for later.

            I asked my kids and they had no traumatic experiences
            from their Montessori School. They learned about
            animals from the many pet birds, mice, green snake,
            and small lizards that were part of the school. They
            had a lot of art and creativity and imaginative play.

            The biggest trauma Gwen had in school was her first
            year in public school kindergarten. The kids were
            mean and out of control. Gwen was so trusting that
            they loved to pull pranks on her. The next year we
            put her in Montessori. Ian had a problem at a public
            school with a very strict and rigid teacher that would
            single him out in front of the whole class. When I
            had him moved to another class, she started on a new
            kid.

            Have Fun,

            Julie
            --- George Thomas <social_artist@...> wrote:

            > I'd be curious to know what differences you might
            > find
            > between Waldorf and the Montessori method. Of
            > course,
            > every Waldorf school is a little different, as I'm
            > sure the Montessori schools must be, perhaps even
            > more
            > with the Montessori schools. I was put into a
            > Montessori nursery school program in Bethlehem, PA,
            > and I must say it wasn't a very pleasant experience.
            >
            > Too much, too soon, for my constitution. I have
            > three
            > vivid memories. The first is that I was required to
            > check my blanket with the coats, which was upsetting
            > but I made it through relatively unscathed after the
            > first day. The second was the day we were taught
            > about gravity by the teacher's use of metal filings
            > on
            > a magnetized globe. This made little sense to me at
            > the time as I was taking the magnetized metal globe
            > for what it is, a magnetized metal globe, and the
            > Earth for what it is, a living body that generates
            > its
            > own magnetic field and not a piece of metal that
            > picked its magnetic abilities up from the Earth or
            > some place else. I couldn't figure out what one had
            > to do with the other really, but I did enjoy
            > watching
            > the metal filings stick to the ends. The third
            > memory
            > is of the day we were taught where babies come from
            > by
            > using real pickled fetuses in jars. I realize now
            > that the fetuses were probably not human, but I
            > wasn't
            > aware of this at the time, not that this necessarily
            > would have made the situation more pleasant.
            > Anyway,
            > I was under the impression that there were real
            > babies
            > in those jars. This caused an emotional storm that
            > is
            > still in my memory as I was sitting there on the
            > floor
            > looking up at those babies in jars. I couldn't tell
            > you who a single one of teachers was, or even recall
            > the faces, but I remember quite well the blanket on
            > the hook by the door, the magnetized globe and the
            > fetuses in jars. Oh, and meeting my good friend,
            > Charlie, too. Go figure....
            >
            > -George
            >
            >
            > --- Julie Heynssens <julie_b_h@...> wrote:
            > > Sheila, we've been to Monterey a few times to
            > visit
            > > the aquarium and camp along the coast. In fact,
            > > Gwen
            > > has just finished reading Cannery Row.
            > >
            > > I've met some really wonderful people at Highland
            > > Hall
            > > and at the Anthroposophy bookstore in Pasadena. I
            > > thought that all of the caring and consideration
            > to
            > > detail was lost in today's world. It was nice
            > > meeting
            > > thoughtful people in urban California and was a
            > real
            > > wake up call for me.
            > >
            > > In Tucson, the kids were in a one room Montessori
            > > schoolhouse near the University. Most of the kids
            > > parents were associated with the University and
            > the
            > > kids were truely free spirits. I really miss that
            > > atmosphere and am glad that I found Highland Hall.
            > >
            > > Have Fun,
            > >
            > > Julie
            > >
            > > --- LilOleMissy <lilolemissy@...> wrote:
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Julie, I'm so very glad about your daughter!
            > > This
            > > > world so badly needs such souls as she and you,
            > > too.
            > > > Northridge is beautiful, and I'm in Monterey
            > > County
            > > > on the coast [California] - wouldn't it be
            > > wonderful
            > > > to meet?!!!! Rudolf Steiner College is just
            > about
            > > > 200 miles NE of me! Keep in touch?
            > > >
            > > > Warm Thoughts,
            > > >
            > > > Sheila
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > > __________________________________________________
            > > Do you Yahoo!?
            > > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
            > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/
            > >
            >
            >
            > __________________________________________________
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            >


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          • Julie Heynssens
            Innovation does not originate with logic. It stems from Eros ... the passion to create. Ginger Grant __________________________________________________ Do you
            Message 5 of 15 , Feb 28, 2003
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              Innovation does not originate with logic. It stems
              from Eros ... the passion to create. Ginger Grant

              __________________________________________________
              Do you Yahoo!?
              Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
              http://taxes.yahoo.com/
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