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Sacrifice

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  • Mathew Morrell <tma4cbt@juno.com>
    Deer season began on a brisk, cool morning in November. Men all over Thurston County made their way into the Cascade foothills bearing rifles and shotguns,
    Message 1 of 15 , Feb 14, 2003
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      Deer season began on a brisk, cool morning in November. Men all over
      Thurston County made their way into the Cascade foothills bearing
      rifles and shotguns, backpacks slung over their shoulders. By dawn
      their pick-up trucks bumped and rolled over all the rutted logging
      roads from Olympia to the steaming peat bogs east of Rainier; hunters
      spread over hundreds of thousands of square miles, pushing aside the
      obstinate hedges, trudging over deer runs and beaver paths, forcing
      their way deeper and deeper into solitude, through dense, rank
      vegetation. Coinciding with deer season was grouse hunting. There
      were hunting dogs west of Woodinville. I knew that because I heard
      their strange, strained, wallowing howls resounding for miles.

      I was alone that morning, and that was fine with me. I had my 30.06
      strung over my shoulder and I was quietly and peacefully on foot
      walking on a logging road through a forest of mostly pine and alder
      trees, although once in a while I passed a Beech or a hickory or an
      oak. I was in my early twenties back then, a bit of a recluse, a
      nature mystic, a drifter going from job to job. For a week I had
      prepared for this day. I had spent 15 dollars on a license, 300 on
      my rifle. I had read a book on how to gut and butcher a deer ---and
      there I was that morning in November listening to the wind whisper
      through the trees, at the same time waiting and watching. I was
      looking for a "sign." My mind was structured in such a way that even
      the most insignificant nuance in the landscape -- an overturned
      stone, a footprint, a pile of droppings --- gained my attention.
      God, I knew, would provide me a sign, or He would not.

      One came in the form of an owl. Its plumage was speckled brown, gray
      and white, so that it blended almost perfectly into the wooded
      background. Consequently, I did not see it until its great wing span
      spread out before me ---so close the wings blew in my face. Then, it
      flew into the woods. I followed the owl knowing it was the sign I
      was looking for. Prior to this morning I had prepared myself,
      spiritually, for this day. I had prayed and meditated. And I had,
      to my current humiliation, performed a playful, pagan ritual
      consisting in savage dance steps. It was a wild, graceful, shamanic
      dance that I had performed; and although I did not smear blood on my
      body, or dance naked around a fire, the magic worked.

      The owl led me to a buck. In the golden haze of morning, with tufts
      of mist rising from the forest floor, I pursued the buck through the
      trees. My heart was throbbing in my chest and I was covered in
      sweat. When the deer stopped I stopped too. It turned broadside to
      look back at me, while I slowly raised my gun. The distance between
      us was no less than 100 yards. There was no scope on the rifle. Yet
      I aimed for the spinal cord going up its neck. Looking back now, I
      can see how foolish that was. Always go for the heart from that far
      away. The heart is a larger target. At the time, though, I was more
      concerned about the deer. I did not want to cause it pain. I wanted
      the kill to be instant.

      Today I wouldn't pull the trigger. In fact, these days, I won't go
      fishing or hunting. My killing instinct has become less direct, I
      suppose, less obvious, more refined; and now I no longer perform
      strange, pagan rituals, or live with Europeans and hippies, or
      attend `green' rallies, or watch, with stunned amazement, bulging-
      eyed mediums in trance. Yes, I shot and killed that deer eleven
      years ago. It was an instant kill, too, quick and efficient,
      moreover painless. After it dropped I went over and gutted it with a
      five inch skinning knife, consumed in sublime sadness, yet oddly at
      peace, not triumphant or arrogant, but powerfully and deeply thankful
      for the spirit of the deer for sacrificing itself for me.



      Mathew Morrell
      kcpost.net
    • Julie Heynssens
      My daughter just finished the application process at Highland Hall High School in Norhtridge, CA. I truly hope that she gets in because she is just too
      Message 2 of 15 , Feb 18, 2003
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        My daughter just finished the application process at
        Highland Hall High School in Norhtridge, CA. I truly
        hope that she gets in because she is just too
        thoughtful and considerate for the public schools
        around here. It was Gwen's need for more time to
        analyze and less time memorizing that sent me on the
        journey that led me here. I truly hope that this will
        work out for her. I'm even considering going through
        teacher training if she gets in. It will be a great
        chance for us to grow together. Wish us luck.

        Have Fun,

        Julie

        __________________________________________________
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      • DRStarman2001@aol.com
        julie_b_h@yahoo.com writes: ... *******I m sure we all wish that she makes it. and you want to consider taking the training even if you don t go out to be a
        Message 3 of 15 , Feb 20, 2003
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          julie_b_h@... writes:

          My daughter just finished the application process at
          Highland Hall High School in Norhtridge, CA.  I truly
          hope that she gets in because she is just too
          thoughtful and considerate for the public schools
          around here.  It was Gwen's need for more time to
          analyze and less time memorizing that sent me on the
          journey that led me here.  I truly hope that this will
          work out for her.  I'm even considering going through
          teacher training if she gets in.  It will be a great
          chance for us to grow together.  Wish us luck.

          Have Fun,

          Julie


          *******I'm sure we all wish that she makes it. and you want to consider taking the training even if you don't go out to be a Waldorf teacher afterwards. It's the most marvelous training you can imagine. There are three training institutes in the United States: that one in California, one in New Hampshire and one in Spring Valley, New York.

          Dr. Starman
          http://www.DrStarman.net
        • LilOleMissy
          julie_b_h@yahoo.com writes: My daughter just finished the application process at Highland Hall High School in Norhtridge, CA. I truly hope that she gets in
          Message 4 of 15 , Feb 20, 2003
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            julie_b_h@... writes:

            My daughter just finished the application process at
            Highland Hall High School in Norhtridge, CA.  I truly
            hope that she gets in because she is just too
            thoughtful and considerate for the public schools
            around here.  It was Gwen's need for more time to
            analyze and less time memorizing that sent me on the
            journey that led me here.  I truly hope that this will
            work out for her.  I'm even considering going through
            teacher training if she gets in.  It will be a great
            chance for us to grow together.  Wish us luck.

            Have Fun,

            Julie


            *******I'm sure we all wish that she makes it. and you want to consider taking the training even if you don't go out to be a Waldorf teacher afterwards. It's the most marvelous training you can imagine. There are three training institutes in the United States: that one in California, one in New Hampshire and one in Spring Valley, New York.

            Dr. Starman
            http://www.DrStarman.net
            Julie, I'm so very glad about your daughter! This world so badly needs such souls as she and you, too. Northridge is beautiful, and I'm in Monterey County on the coast [California] - wouldn't it be wonderful to meet?!!!! Rudolf Steiner College is just about 200 miles NE of me! Keep in touch?
             
            Warm Thoughts,
             
            Sheila
          • Julie Heynssens
            Sheila, we ve been to Monterey a few times to visit the aquarium and camp along the coast. In fact, Gwen has just finished reading Cannery Row. I ve met some
            Message 5 of 15 , Feb 20, 2003
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              Sheila, we've been to Monterey a few times to visit
              the aquarium and camp along the coast. In fact, Gwen
              has just finished reading Cannery Row.

              I've met some really wonderful people at Highland Hall
              and at the Anthroposophy bookstore in Pasadena. I
              thought that all of the caring and consideration to
              detail was lost in today's world. It was nice meeting
              thoughtful people in urban California and was a real
              wake up call for me.

              In Tucson, the kids were in a one room Montessori
              schoolhouse near the University. Most of the kids
              parents were associated with the University and the
              kids were truely free spirits. I really miss that
              atmosphere and am glad that I found Highland Hall.

              Have Fun,

              Julie

              --- LilOleMissy <lilolemissy@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > Julie, I'm so very glad about your daughter! This
              > world so badly needs such souls as she and you, too.
              > Northridge is beautiful, and I'm in Monterey County
              > on the coast [California] - wouldn't it be wonderful
              > to meet?!!!! Rudolf Steiner College is just about
              > 200 miles NE of me! Keep in touch?
              >
              > Warm Thoughts,
              >
              > Sheila
              >


              __________________________________________________
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            • George Thomas
              Don t forget the teacher training program in Eugene, Oregon, too. This is where I attended the Foundation Year. I don t consider myself an anthroposophist,
              Message 6 of 15 , Feb 20, 2003
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                Don't forget the teacher training program in Eugene,
                Oregon, too. This is where I attended the Foundation
                Year. I don't consider myself an anthroposophist, and
                I'm certainly not in the position to be a Waldorf
                teacher, but measuring the training's value in my life
                would be impossible. Not a day goes by that its
                affect is not felt.

                I'd be curious to know what differences you might find
                between Waldorf and the Montessori method. Of course,
                every Waldorf school is a little different, as I'm
                sure the Montessori schools must be, perhaps even more
                with the Montessori schools. I was put into a
                Montessori nursery school program in Bethlehem, PA,
                and I must say it wasn't a very pleasant experience.
                Too much, too soon, for my constitution. I have three
                vivid memories. The first is that I was required to
                check my blanket with the coats, which was upsetting
                but I made it through relatively unscathed after the
                first day. The second was the day we were taught
                about gravity by the teacher's use of metal filings on
                a magnetized globe. This made little sense to me at
                the time as I was taking the magnetized metal globe
                for what it is, a magnetized metal globe, and the
                Earth for what it is, a living body that generates its
                own magnetic field and not a piece of metal that
                picked its magnetic abilities up from the Earth or
                some place else. I couldn't figure out what one had
                to do with the other really, but I did enjoy watching
                the metal filings stick to the ends. The third memory
                is of the day we were taught where babies come from by
                using real pickled fetuses in jars. I realize now
                that the fetuses were probably not human, but I wasn't
                aware of this at the time, not that this necessarily
                would have made the situation more pleasant. Anyway,
                I was under the impression that there were real babies
                in those jars. This caused an emotional storm that is
                still in my memory as I was sitting there on the floor
                looking up at those babies in jars. I couldn't tell
                you who a single one of teachers was, or even recall
                the faces, but I remember quite well the blanket on
                the hook by the door, the magnetized globe and the
                fetuses in jars. Oh, and meeting my good friend,
                Charlie, too. Go figure....

                -George


                --- Julie Heynssens <julie_b_h@...> wrote:
                > Sheila, we've been to Monterey a few times to visit
                > the aquarium and camp along the coast. In fact,
                > Gwen
                > has just finished reading Cannery Row.
                >
                > I've met some really wonderful people at Highland
                > Hall
                > and at the Anthroposophy bookstore in Pasadena. I
                > thought that all of the caring and consideration to
                > detail was lost in today's world. It was nice
                > meeting
                > thoughtful people in urban California and was a real
                > wake up call for me.
                >
                > In Tucson, the kids were in a one room Montessori
                > schoolhouse near the University. Most of the kids
                > parents were associated with the University and the
                > kids were truely free spirits. I really miss that
                > atmosphere and am glad that I found Highland Hall.
                >
                > Have Fun,
                >
                > Julie
                >
                > --- LilOleMissy <lilolemissy@...> wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > > Julie, I'm so very glad about your daughter!
                > This
                > > world so badly needs such souls as she and you,
                > too.
                > > Northridge is beautiful, and I'm in Monterey
                > County
                > > on the coast [California] - wouldn't it be
                > wonderful
                > > to meet?!!!! Rudolf Steiner College is just about
                > > 200 miles NE of me! Keep in touch?
                > >
                > > Warm Thoughts,
                > >
                > > Sheila
                > >
                >
                >
                > __________________________________________________
                > Do you Yahoo!?
                > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
                > http://taxes.yahoo.com/
                >


                __________________________________________________
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              • George Thomas
                Julie- Do you happen to have the address for the bookstore in Pasadena? I live in Hollywood and would love to check it out some time. Thank you- George ...
                Message 7 of 15 , Feb 20, 2003
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                  Julie-

                  Do you happen to have the address for the bookstore in
                  Pasadena? I live in Hollywood and would love to check
                  it out some time.

                  Thank you-
                  George


                  --- Julie Heynssens <julie_b_h@...> wrote:
                  > Sheila, we've been to Monterey a few times to visit
                  > the aquarium and camp along the coast. In fact,
                  > Gwen
                  > has just finished reading Cannery Row.
                  >
                  > I've met some really wonderful people at Highland
                  > Hall
                  > and at the Anthroposophy bookstore in Pasadena. I
                  > thought that all of the caring and consideration to
                  > detail was lost in today's world. It was nice
                  > meeting
                  > thoughtful people in urban California and was a real
                  > wake up call for me.
                  >
                  > In Tucson, the kids were in a one room Montessori
                  > schoolhouse near the University. Most of the kids
                  > parents were associated with the University and the
                  > kids were truely free spirits. I really miss that
                  > atmosphere and am glad that I found Highland Hall.
                  >
                  > Have Fun,
                  >
                  > Julie
                  >
                  > --- LilOleMissy <lilolemissy@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Julie, I'm so very glad about your daughter!
                  > This
                  > > world so badly needs such souls as she and you,
                  > too.
                  > > Northridge is beautiful, and I'm in Monterey
                  > County
                  > > on the coast [California] - wouldn't it be
                  > wonderful
                  > > to meet?!!!! Rudolf Steiner College is just about
                  > > 200 miles NE of me! Keep in touch?
                  > >
                  > > Warm Thoughts,
                  > >
                  > > Sheila
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > __________________________________________________
                  > Do you Yahoo!?
                  > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
                  > http://taxes.yahoo.com/
                  >


                  __________________________________________________
                  Do you Yahoo!?
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                • George Thomas
                  I m writing in regard to current modern medicine and its approach to infectious disease. There s a new strain of staph that is going around in California. It
                  Message 8 of 15 , Feb 20, 2003
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                    I'm writing in regard to current modern medicine and
                    its approach to infectious disease. There's a new
                    strain of staph that is going around in California.
                    It is mostly a problem affecting the skin at this
                    point. It is resistant to many of the common
                    antibiotics.

                    Here is a link to an article on WebMD:
                    http://my.webmd.com/content/article/60/66950.htm?lastselectedguid={5FE84E90-BC77-4056-A91C-9531713CA348}

                    According to what I've read, it apparently started
                    with babies and has moved into the gay male
                    population, particularly in health clubs and other
                    places warm and moist. There are concerns that it
                    will soon be popping up in day care centers.

                    Here's also a related article on a vaccine that is to
                    be effective against staph infections:
                    http://my.webmd.com/content/article/24/1821_50297.htm?lastselectedguid={5FE84E90-BC77-4056-A91C-9531713CA348}

                    I'm putting this out here curious to hear how others
                    on the list take such news, as it appears to be a
                    problem we'll have to deal with ever increasingly now
                    that more and more bugs are becoming immune to our
                    medicines.

                    Personally, I'm in the process of deciding whether or
                    not to have myself vaccinated against Hep A and B.
                    Hep B vaccination requires a series of three shots. I
                    received two shots when I was working in a group home
                    in Montana, but I left the state before finishing the
                    series. Despite the fact that no living viruses are
                    used in the vaccine, I had an adverse reaction to the
                    shots I received and was nauseous for a day or so
                    following each. Supposedly, this doesn't happen with
                    such a vaccine, but it did happen to me, though it
                    could have been something else only "coincidentally"
                    related to the shots. The experience soured me on the
                    idea of receiving any further vaccinations. Now,
                    almost 10 years later, I'm planning a trip to Costa
                    Rica. My fear of Hep infection is strong enough to
                    have me thinking of taking the shots again. I'm
                    measuring my concern for possibly getting sick with my
                    concern that these vaccines and medicines need to be
                    used cautiously because otherwise they serve to make
                    some diseases worse or even create new problems
                    altogether, as in the case of normally occuring
                    bacteria that is beneficial to the body but has begun
                    to mutate into something dangerous through the
                    overuse/misuse of antibiotics.

                    Please let me know your thoughts and feelings if so
                    inclined.

                    Thank you-
                    -George

                    __________________________________________________
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                  • George Thomas
                    In re: my previous e-mail.... I remember being told by our teacher in Eugene about something I believe Steiner said regarding the future development of a
                    Message 9 of 15 , Feb 20, 2003
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                      In re: my previous e-mail....

                      I remember being told by our teacher in Eugene about
                      something I believe Steiner said regarding the future
                      development of a vaccine that would prevent spiritual
                      thoughts. (Perhaps under the guise that it would
                      prevent insanity? (My thought.)) Has anyone else
                      heard of such a statement?

                      Thank you-
                      George

                      __________________________________________________
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                    • Julie Heynssens
                      George, The bookstore is at 110 Martin Alley which is between Green Street and Colorado Blvd. Also the bookstore is just behind the Twin Palms Restaurant.
                      Message 10 of 15 , Feb 20, 2003
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                        George,

                        The bookstore is at 110 Martin Alley which is
                        between Green Street and Colorado Blvd. Also the
                        bookstore is just behind the Twin Palms Restaurant.
                        They are open Wednesdays, Fridays, and Saturdays from
                        10 AM-5PM. They also have an auditorium and have
                        lectures.
                        They can give you a copy of the schedule at the
                        bookstore. Their phone number is (626) 578-7513.

                        Have Fun,

                        Julie

                        --- George Thomas <social_artist@...> wrote:
                        > Julie-
                        >
                        > Do you happen to have the address for the bookstore
                        > in
                        > Pasadena? I live in Hollywood and would love to
                        > check
                        > it out some time.
                        >
                        > Thank you-
                        > George
                        >
                        >
                        > --- Julie Heynssens <julie_b_h@...> wrote:
                        > > Sheila, we've been to Monterey a few times to
                        > visit
                        > > the aquarium and camp along the coast. In fact,
                        > > Gwen
                        > > has just finished reading Cannery Row.
                        > >
                        > > I've met some really wonderful people at Highland
                        > > Hall
                        > > and at the Anthroposophy bookstore in Pasadena. I
                        > > thought that all of the caring and consideration
                        > to
                        > > detail was lost in today's world. It was nice
                        > > meeting
                        > > thoughtful people in urban California and was a
                        > real
                        > > wake up call for me.
                        > >
                        > > In Tucson, the kids were in a one room Montessori
                        > > schoolhouse near the University. Most of the kids
                        > > parents were associated with the University and
                        > the
                        > > kids were truely free spirits. I really miss that
                        > > atmosphere and am glad that I found Highland Hall.
                        > >
                        > > Have Fun,
                        > >
                        > > Julie
                        > >
                        > > --- LilOleMissy <lilolemissy@...> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Julie, I'm so very glad about your daughter!
                        > > This
                        > > > world so badly needs such souls as she and you,
                        > > too.
                        > > > Northridge is beautiful, and I'm in Monterey
                        > > County
                        > > > on the coast [California] - wouldn't it be
                        > > wonderful
                        > > > to meet?!!!! Rudolf Steiner College is just
                        > about
                        > > > 200 miles NE of me! Keep in touch?
                        > > >
                        > > > Warm Thoughts,
                        > > >
                        > > > Sheila
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > __________________________________________________
                        > > Do you Yahoo!?
                        > > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
                        > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        > __________________________________________________
                        > Do you Yahoo!?
                        > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
                        > http://taxes.yahoo.com/
                        >


                        __________________________________________________
                        Do you Yahoo!?
                        Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
                        http://taxes.yahoo.com/
                      • LilOleMissy
                        Dear George, I find your two postings interesting in that I have worked in medicine for many years, and the only possible definitive answers to your excellent
                        Message 11 of 15 , Feb 20, 2003
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                          Dear George,

                          I find your two postings interesting in that I have worked in medicine for
                          many years, and the only possible definitive answers to your excellent
                          questions would necessarily have to come from your own doctor who knows you
                          well, or an expert in these fields. Even then, it's difficult to approach
                          these matters. Over all, I've found the popular medical sources more what I
                          term "fear mongers" than factual, although there is sufficient fact in a
                          material sense to justify their legality. I'm not a materialistic medical
                          person, although my training and much of my practice has firm materialistic
                          roots, so to say.

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "George Thomas" <social_artist@...>
                          To: <steiner@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 2:55 PM
                          Subject: [Steiner] Infectious Disease


                          > I'm writing in regard to current modern medicine and
                          > its approach to infectious disease. There's a new
                          > strain of staph that is going around in California.
                          > It is mostly a problem affecting the skin at this
                          > point. It is resistant to many of the common
                          > antibiotics.
                          >
                          > Here is a link to an article on WebMD:
                          >
                          http://my.webmd.com/content/article/60/66950.htm?lastselectedguid={5FE84E90-
                          BC77-4056-A91C-9531713CA348}

                          First, I'd like to state this article is speaking of an old and very
                          specific bacterium, Staphlycoccus aureus. The first name denotes the genera
                          or family, while the second specifies it more closely, as in this case aurus
                          means white, as is evident in the "pus" as well as colonies seen as white.
                          There are far too many species of Staphlococci to list them all here, but
                          before the advent of antibiotics [penicillin], S. aureus was [and still is]
                          a frequent source of the more minor afflictions such as boils, pimples and
                          other more or less temporarily diseased conditions in healthy people as well
                          as such things as tonsillitis, ear infections and more serious conditions,
                          although the latter are usually more related to the Streptococci species.
                          They, the Staph, have always been deadly among those with weakened immune
                          responses, age and coinciding other disease states. Like all bacterium,
                          virii, etc. severe or deadly disease states have gradually increased in
                          severity and frequency, largely due to the mutations undergone by these and
                          other organisms themselves in response to antibiotics. Unless my information
                          is erroneous, this specific strain of the Staph family, Staphlococcus
                          aureus, is the leading cause of all hospital acquired infections and/or
                          deaths. This is one reason we notice people are hospitalized for as short a
                          period of time as possible.
                          >
                          > According to what I've read, it apparently started
                          > with babies and has moved into the gay male
                          > population, particularly in health clubs and other
                          > places warm and moist. There are concerns that it
                          > will soon be popping up in day care centers.

                          In order to grow and spread, Staph aureus must have a good medium,
                          temperature and moisture level in order to thrive, as is found in day care
                          centers, health clubs, schools, military quarters, etc. where numerous
                          people are in contact. The bacterium is spread via all body fluids, whether
                          by inhalation, touching, contaminated surfaces, clothing or other shared
                          objects, etc.
                          >
                          > Here's also a related article on a vaccine that is to
                          > be effective against staph infections:
                          >
                          http://my.webmd.com/content/article/24/1821_50297.htm?lastselectedguid={5FE8
                          4E90-BC77-4056-A91C-9531713CA348}
                          >
                          > I'm putting this out here curious to hear how others
                          > on the list take such news, as it appears to be a
                          > problem we'll have to deal with ever increasingly now
                          > that more and more bugs are becoming immune to our
                          > medicines.

                          In all honesty, I know little or nothing of a vacinne effective against this
                          species, but that certainly isn't to say there is none - I don't know.
                          Cleanliness and good health habits, especially hand washing, diet and
                          sufficient rest, are always a primary concern in containing such disease
                          agents.
                          >
                          > Personally, I'm in the process of deciding whether or
                          > not to have myself vaccinated against Hep A and B.
                          > Hep B vaccination requires a series of three shots. I
                          > received two shots when I was working in a group home
                          > in Montana, but I left the state before finishing the
                          > series. Despite the fact that no living viruses are
                          > used in the vaccine, I had an adverse reaction to the
                          > shots I received and was nauseous for a day or so
                          > following each. Supposedly, this doesn't happen with
                          > such a vaccine, but it did happen to me, though it
                          > could have been something else only "coincidentally"
                          > related to the shots. The experience soured me on the
                          > idea of receiving any further vaccinations. Now,
                          > almost 10 years later, I'm planning a trip to Costa
                          > Rica. My fear of Hep infection is strong enough to
                          > have me thinking of taking the shots again. I'm
                          > measuring my concern for possibly getting sick with my
                          > concern that these vaccines and medicines need to be
                          > used cautiously because otherwise they serve to make
                          > some diseases worse or even create new problems
                          > altogether, as in the case of normally occuring
                          > bacteria that is beneficial to the body but has begun
                          > to mutate into something dangerous through the
                          > overuse/misuse of antibiotics.

                          George, I certainly relate to the hepatitis, having barely survived
                          hepatitis A at age 21. This particular strain of the virii is spread via the
                          fecal oral route, usually in food and/or water, but also by insufficient
                          hand washing. Once recovered, there is some immunity for life, if "they" are
                          correct.

                          In the case of hepatitis B, this strain of the virus is acquired mainly via
                          exchange of bodily fluids, as in blood transfusions, etc. and is far more
                          serious than type A. To my knowledge, there is usually some degree of
                          listlessness and "not feeling well" for several days following the
                          immunizations given against this particular type, but it shouldn't be
                          prolonged or severe. The danger of hepatitis B is in its chronicity,
                          elevated rate of liver cancer and possible liver failure some years
                          following the initial acute disease state. Antibiotics seem to have
                          extremely limited if any effect against these virii and there are very few
                          medications which have an effect on them. It seems to me the newer drugs
                          being used against the HIV/AIDS virii are showing some promise, but the
                          issue is debatable for now. I haven't sufficient knowledge in these realms
                          to advise anyone, sad to say, and your best choice would be to hopefully
                          visit an M.D. specializing in hepatic [liver] disease states. It's possible
                          you may have sufficient antibiodies against hepatitis B to warrant only a
                          shortened course of vacinne, but this is problematic and would be ruled out
                          one way or another via blood tests.

                          George, I wouldn't doubt there are many medications and drugs in the
                          psychotropic fields to prevent spiritual thoughts. I don't know that they
                          would necessarily be termed "vaccines," but what's in a name? Psychotropic
                          drugs of any type distort the Ego, etheric and/or astral bodies as well as
                          the physical body, and any time that occurs, it would seem to me one would
                          not be able to form true spiritual thoughts. The only reference I can think
                          of at this very moment is in Steiner's "The Effects of Oc. Development on
                          the Etheric Body and Sheaths of Man" and one instance is where Steiner
                          refers to alcohol - specifically wine, I believe, alluding to the
                          impossibility of attaining Spirituality because of it. Alcohol takes the
                          place of the Ego, and it's as though it shoves the Ego aside and "takes
                          over." Dr. Starman certainly will know the reply to this.

                          I'm sorry not to have been able to give you more and better answers, George.
                          It is increasingly becoming difficult for me to rack my mind in the
                          materialistic view which is attuned to modern medicine and it is so very
                          rare to find Anthroposophical Medicine, although that would be the best of
                          all sources! Hopefully you might have recourse to a Waldorf School or
                          Anthroposophical group to lead you to a qualified source.

                          I so deeply wish you well and having lived in Montana and loved it, I'm
                          reliving those wonderful times I spent there, but new adventures await you
                          now.

                          Best,

                          Sheila

                          > Please let me know your thoughts and feelings if so
                          > inclined.
                          >
                          > Thank you-
                          > -George
                        • LilOleMissy
                          Julie, you re already familiar with our area, then. How great Gwen has read Cannery Row, and she may also enjoy Steinbeck s *East of Eden* which is placed in
                          Message 12 of 15 , Feb 20, 2003
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                            Julie, you're already familiar with our area, then. How great Gwen has read
                            "Cannery Row," and she may also enjoy Steinbeck's *East of Eden* which is
                            placed in the same area but taking in the Salinas Valley as well! Steinbeck
                            was born in Salinas, and this work is about his family, but what is so
                            striking about it to me is that it's a wonderful Cain/Abel work plus
                            incorporating true Evil in the novel. When I came across these same aspects
                            in Steiner's works, I thought back to this work of Steinbeck's, and it was
                            so very clear to me! The old film with James Dean was largely made in the
                            Valley, and other than more houses, there isn't much difference in the
                            scenery.

                            Isn't it absolutely wonderful to come across such careful and conscientious
                            people as at Highland Hall as well as the bookstore in Pasadena?! We deeply
                            appreciate such conscientiousness far more than we expect, and it's such a
                            wonderful experience. There is a large bookstore up this way in Carmel [3
                            miles from Monterey] which a very lovely lady runs all alone with her
                            husband, and it's as large as the local Borders! The owner is having to sell
                            out after so many years and I so hope the successor stocks as many of
                            Steiner's works! I really was fortunate one day to run in there to see if
                            any new titles had arrived, and thought I saw "Karma of Vocation," which I
                            snapped up, only to find later I had "The Karma of Untruthfulness!" ACK, I
                            said - I never heard of this one! But I can't describe how important it
                            truly is. I'm either blind from reading so much or this one work is packed
                            full with so much I'm only now realizing after so long! Since there are no
                            coincidences, it's an even greater treasure to have gained it
                            "accidentally!" :)

                            I'm happy you and Gwen visited the Aquarium, and it's quite special, I
                            think. Our son works at their research institute half way around the Bay,
                            and that's where they have their deep water submersible, the Rov, for
                            investigating the 2 mile deep underwater canyon in the Bay there. Other
                            things go on there as well, since much of their work is tied up with NOAA.
                            That's a fun place, too! I so hope some of your camping has been along The
                            Big Sur Highway! What a tremendous meeting of mountains marching down to the
                            sea!

                            Warm Thoughts,

                            Sheila


                            > Sheila, we've been to Monterey a few times to visit
                            > the aquarium and camp along the coast. In fact, Gwen
                            > has just finished reading Cannery Row.
                            >
                            > I've met some really wonderful people at Highland Hall
                            > and at the Anthroposophy bookstore in Pasadena. I
                            > thought that all of the caring and consideration to
                            > detail was lost in today's world. It was nice meeting
                            > thoughtful people in urban California and was a real
                            > wake up call for me.
                            >
                            > In Tucson, the kids were in a one room Montessori
                            > schoolhouse near the University. Most of the kids
                            > parents were associated with the University and the
                            > kids were truely free spirits. I really miss that
                            > atmosphere and am glad that I found Highland Hall.
                            >
                            > Have Fun,
                            >
                            > Julie
                            >
                            > --- LilOleMissy <lilolemissy@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Julie, I'm so very glad about your daughter! This
                            > > world so badly needs such souls as she and you, too.
                            > > Northridge is beautiful, and I'm in Monterey County
                            > > on the coast [California] - wouldn't it be wonderful
                            > > to meet?!!!! Rudolf Steiner College is just about
                            > > 200 miles NE of me! Keep in touch?
                            > >
                            > > Warm Thoughts,
                            > >
                            > > Sheila
                          • Deanne Salazar <khobar23@yahoo.com>
                            Greetings, Now that we re on the subject, there is a program here at the Austin Waldorf School for Foundational Studies...wishing I could afford it!!! Cheers,
                            Message 13 of 15 , Feb 21, 2003
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                              Greetings,
                              Now that we're on the subject, there is a program here at the Austin
                              Waldorf School for Foundational Studies...wishing I could afford
                              it!!! Cheers, Deanne
                            • Julie Heynssens
                              The Montessori Method is more materialistic. They use multi-sensory techniques to drill in the same numbers and letters that they would get anywhere else.
                              Message 14 of 15 , Feb 23, 2003
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                                The Montessori Method is more materialistic. They use
                                multi-sensory techniques to drill in the same numbers
                                and letters that they would get anywhere else. There
                                is no attention to spiritual matters or just time to
                                be in awe of their surrondings. However, the school
                                that my kids went to had a director that was trained
                                as an artist in France so there was a lot more art,
                                and attention to detail that you would find in a
                                regular school. The kids were allowed to progress at
                                their own pace. So my daughter didn't get put down
                                because she was slow with letters and quick to draw
                                beautiful pictures. Maria Montessori worked mostly
                                with 3-8 year olds so her techniques are geared toward
                                that age group.

                                My understanding of the early years of Waldorf is that
                                the teachers try to instill a sense of wonder about
                                the world in the children and letters and numbers
                                aren't introduced until grade school. There are told
                                stories, they paint, they bake bread, they knit, they
                                develop their creative capacities and leave the book
                                learning for later.

                                I asked my kids and they had no traumatic experiences
                                from their Montessori School. They learned about
                                animals from the many pet birds, mice, green snake,
                                and small lizards that were part of the school. They
                                had a lot of art and creativity and imaginative play.

                                The biggest trauma Gwen had in school was her first
                                year in public school kindergarten. The kids were
                                mean and out of control. Gwen was so trusting that
                                they loved to pull pranks on her. The next year we
                                put her in Montessori. Ian had a problem at a public
                                school with a very strict and rigid teacher that would
                                single him out in front of the whole class. When I
                                had him moved to another class, she started on a new
                                kid.

                                Have Fun,

                                Julie
                                --- George Thomas <social_artist@...> wrote:

                                > I'd be curious to know what differences you might
                                > find
                                > between Waldorf and the Montessori method. Of
                                > course,
                                > every Waldorf school is a little different, as I'm
                                > sure the Montessori schools must be, perhaps even
                                > more
                                > with the Montessori schools. I was put into a
                                > Montessori nursery school program in Bethlehem, PA,
                                > and I must say it wasn't a very pleasant experience.
                                >
                                > Too much, too soon, for my constitution. I have
                                > three
                                > vivid memories. The first is that I was required to
                                > check my blanket with the coats, which was upsetting
                                > but I made it through relatively unscathed after the
                                > first day. The second was the day we were taught
                                > about gravity by the teacher's use of metal filings
                                > on
                                > a magnetized globe. This made little sense to me at
                                > the time as I was taking the magnetized metal globe
                                > for what it is, a magnetized metal globe, and the
                                > Earth for what it is, a living body that generates
                                > its
                                > own magnetic field and not a piece of metal that
                                > picked its magnetic abilities up from the Earth or
                                > some place else. I couldn't figure out what one had
                                > to do with the other really, but I did enjoy
                                > watching
                                > the metal filings stick to the ends. The third
                                > memory
                                > is of the day we were taught where babies come from
                                > by
                                > using real pickled fetuses in jars. I realize now
                                > that the fetuses were probably not human, but I
                                > wasn't
                                > aware of this at the time, not that this necessarily
                                > would have made the situation more pleasant.
                                > Anyway,
                                > I was under the impression that there were real
                                > babies
                                > in those jars. This caused an emotional storm that
                                > is
                                > still in my memory as I was sitting there on the
                                > floor
                                > looking up at those babies in jars. I couldn't tell
                                > you who a single one of teachers was, or even recall
                                > the faces, but I remember quite well the blanket on
                                > the hook by the door, the magnetized globe and the
                                > fetuses in jars. Oh, and meeting my good friend,
                                > Charlie, too. Go figure....
                                >
                                > -George
                                >
                                >
                                > --- Julie Heynssens <julie_b_h@...> wrote:
                                > > Sheila, we've been to Monterey a few times to
                                > visit
                                > > the aquarium and camp along the coast. In fact,
                                > > Gwen
                                > > has just finished reading Cannery Row.
                                > >
                                > > I've met some really wonderful people at Highland
                                > > Hall
                                > > and at the Anthroposophy bookstore in Pasadena. I
                                > > thought that all of the caring and consideration
                                > to
                                > > detail was lost in today's world. It was nice
                                > > meeting
                                > > thoughtful people in urban California and was a
                                > real
                                > > wake up call for me.
                                > >
                                > > In Tucson, the kids were in a one room Montessori
                                > > schoolhouse near the University. Most of the kids
                                > > parents were associated with the University and
                                > the
                                > > kids were truely free spirits. I really miss that
                                > > atmosphere and am glad that I found Highland Hall.
                                > >
                                > > Have Fun,
                                > >
                                > > Julie
                                > >
                                > > --- LilOleMissy <lilolemissy@...> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Julie, I'm so very glad about your daughter!
                                > > This
                                > > > world so badly needs such souls as she and you,
                                > > too.
                                > > > Northridge is beautiful, and I'm in Monterey
                                > > County
                                > > > on the coast [California] - wouldn't it be
                                > > wonderful
                                > > > to meet?!!!! Rudolf Steiner College is just
                                > about
                                > > > 200 miles NE of me! Keep in touch?
                                > > >
                                > > > Warm Thoughts,
                                > > >
                                > > > Sheila
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > __________________________________________________
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                                >
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                              • Julie Heynssens
                                Innovation does not originate with logic. It stems from Eros ... the passion to create. Ginger Grant __________________________________________________ Do you
                                Message 15 of 15 , Feb 28, 2003
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                                  Innovation does not originate with logic. It stems
                                  from Eros ... the passion to create. Ginger Grant

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