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Re: [steiner] Re: Hippie Lettuce

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  • DRStarman2001@aol.com
    sarahfe@v21mail.co.uk writes ... *******Actually, I ve lived in America most of my life and I ve never heard that term before. But as far as the effects of
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 1, 2002
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      sarahfe@... writes
      I find this really interesting because I smoked pot more or less daily for 2
      - 3 years at university (16 years ago now), it just seemed like a bit of fun
      at the time. Recently, through analysing my life, and trying to work out
      what the hell is wrong with me, I began to suspect that that was the turning
      point in where things really went wrong. Not that I am a disaster area, but
      I am not as strong as I would like to be - as I know I need to be - and I
      still crave stimulants, especially alcohol and also smoking although I can
      go through periods without either when things are good. Also my motivation
      is pretty hit and miss. I definitely feel that my ego was eroded, because I
      know I was different before.
      I would be interested to know what alcohol and smoking do to you in the
      terms of spiritual science. It might even help me get rid of them for good,
      since I get so close quite often but then get dragged down again.
      Also, what things would help to reverse any of this erosion of the ego,
      dislocation of the astral body etc.. Someone else also metioned the effect
      of drugs on the chakras.
      I've never heard it called hippie lettuce before - that must be an American
      term!
      Thanks,
      Sarah FE


      *******Actually, I've lived in America most of my life and I've never heard that term before. But as far as the effects of different substances are concerned, I can tell you a little bit. It's very perceptive of you to note the change in your behavior began at the time of heavy marijuana use. Naturally, as people become addicted to any mind altering substance, they become progressively less able to objectively see its effect on them. (I've had people flatly deny to me that smoking marijuana has any effect on them, when any outside person can see it doing so-- -- -- and of course, if it had no effect, they wouldn't crave it.) What it does is to slightly loosen the astral body from the physical, as any narcotic does.  Even the word "narcotic" comes from an ancient term for "sleep", and all narcotics put you in a sort of sleep state, or in other words, separate the soul from the body, as naturally happens in sleep. Some induce a sort of dreamless sleep state, a numbing of the physical body, while others induce a sort of dream state while you're awake -- -- -- these are the hallucinogens. T. H. C. is a mild hallucinogen, and in small amounts is not harmful, but regular use of it causes the soul to be unable to insert itself into the body correctly.  The material results of this are in coordination between the two hemispheres of the brain. The supersensible results are not that the Ego is weakened, but that it is unable to manifest completely in the body, resulting in a lack of will power and motivation.

           The craving for this altered state comes about from an inability to bear looking at the reality of one's life in some form. It makes one's consciousness "fuzzy" or in other words not clearly experience the perceptions of the body. People who want to run away from the sense-perceptible reality of their lives crave it, but unfortunately it's just a world of illusion. Actually, what is perceived in that state is real -- -- -- all hallucinations are real -- -- --but because they are experienced in a way suddenly induced by a substance, your consciousness cannot understand them or deal with them correctly. Your flawed consciousness turns what is experienced into illusions, or in other words, misinterprets all of it. For comparison, take a strong hallucinogen like LSD-25. It is chemically almost identical to serotonin, which is secreted by the pineal gland when it is stimulated. Thus the mystic who gradually stimulates the third eye has higher experiences in an altered state of consciousness, but the gradual process of doing this naturally gives one the ability to understand what one experiences. Introducing the substance from outside without this preparation just gives you lots of experiences you are unprepared to assimilate.

          Alcohol is a quite different matter.  It doesn't raise the soul up out of the body, but cuts off the lower part of the soul from the higher and presses it more deeply into the body. In the drug culture, people using a lot of hallucinogens crave alcohol because it counteracts the effect and makes the hallucinogenic "trip" easier to manage. Just as THC building up in the brain make it progressively harder for the Ego to will in the body, the buildup of alcohol in the tissues make it harder and harder for the higher consciousness to manifest in the body. Alcohol is the opposite of the soul. The sign of this is that alcohol can only be produced in an environment without oxygen, showing that it's the opposite of oxygen, which is the physical element that the soul uses to come into the body. Just as people crave hallucinogens who don't want to look clearly at the sensible reality of their lives, so people crave alcohol who want to ignore their higher selves, live without the requirements that being a human being impose on us such as conscious decision making. (A lot of people who are trying to run away from their psychic ability will use alcohol to extinguish it.) Combining the two has the effect of gradually reducing a human being to a state resembling the animal. The actual human part can no longer manifest.
          Spiritual science is based on increasing one's consciousness, not decreasing it, so that it has nothing in common with any drug experiences or pathological states like mediumship, etc. These are not supernatural experiences but sub-natural. I always agreed with and remembered two things from the '60s: Ken Kesey and Baba Ram Dass saying that drug experiences are a hint that there's something out there to be sought, but that you have to find it without the drugs; and Carlos Castenada's don Juan saying that every time you take a substance into you, you also take in the immortal spiritual being who made that plant, and then you either must make that being an "ally" or fall under its power. There are lots of people who think they can walk the spiritual path while continuing to put themselves under the power of the various gods of nature, but only a fool gives one of these power over him.

      Dr. Starman
      Serves the god of caffeine however
      http://www.DrStarman.net
    • George Thomas
      There is certainly value in recognizing that habitual use of substances creates negative effects in the various bodies, but when it comes to a question of
      Message 2 of 7 , Dec 5, 2002
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        There is certainly value in recognizing that habitual
        use of substances creates negative effects in the
        various bodies, but when it comes to a question of
        individual evolution, it seems that the assessment of
        harm done through such an experience is not always
        easy to delineate. There are so many factors at work
        in our modern world that inhibit the healthy evolution
        of humanity.

        Sarah stated that she finds the 2-3 years she smoked
        marijuana in university to be a turning point and the
        beginning of troubles she continues to work through
        today. Of course, her marijuana smoking contributed
        to her current state of being, as did other factors
        such as the form of her education and her diet leading
        up to university. It becomes a difficult issue to
        discern the effects of the various factors when the
        average westerner who experiments with substances most
        often does so during the critical years of the late
        teens to early '20's, thereby compounding the effects
        of substance usage with the effects of the incarnating
        ego. From a certain vantage point, substance use or
        not, many of us could say that our troubles really
        began during those years of university because up
        until that point, for most of us, troubles of an adult
        nature do not exist. Our families usually provide for
        our needs, etc. Adult questions related to carving
        out a life for oneself don't usually exist until those
        university years when we begin moving from studying
        who and what we are to creating who and what we want
        to be going forward. The current western educational
        system and the American diet are just two factors
        aside from substance use that have a huge impact on
        how the ego manifests itself. (And I would say these
        are much larger issues, which when set aright would
        lead to the general extinction of substance abuse
        problems for much of the population.)

        It is potentially dangerous to put oneself under the
        spell of a nature spirit, as it is potentially
        dangerous to put oneself under the spell of television
        and the careless application of modern medicine.
        There appears to be a saving grace, perhaps, in the
        regular use of marijuana in juxtaposition to the
        careless and regular use of television and modern
        pharmaceuticals in that there is an ancient nature
        spirit working in marijuana that has long served a
        particular role in the evolution of humanity, albeit
        generally out of place in our current state of
        consciousness. At the least, we are being connected
        with a being with a natural life. Even if this
        connection does become too strong and unhealthy, it
        personally seems more pleasant in the interim to be
        under the spell of the grotesque beauty of the life of
        nature than the cold calculations of technology.

        There are individuals who are led to the scientific
        investigation of the human soul and spirit in part
        through substance-related experiences. Once such
        people are on the path of modern initiation, they will
        invariably note that higher forms of consciousness
        need to be found without the use of substances;
        however, it doesn't negate the fact that their own use
        of substances helped to lead these people to this
        conclusion. (Carlos Castenada, Ken Kesey, et al., --
        and with Ken Kesey it is also true that he continued
        from time to time to dabble with psychedelic drugs
        despite his statement in the mid-'60's that such
        activity was not the ultimate path.) There are many
        factors contradicting the healthy evolution of the
        human being, and it is quite possible that some
        individuals are in the end assisted by the shock
        provided by a psychedelic experience, which jars one
        temporarily out of the reality in which one has become
        fixed. Of course, the work necessary to lift an
        individual out of such a predicament on a lasting
        basis must ultimately be done in full and clear
        consciousness, and these substances no longer hold
        their place.

        It was William Blake, I believe, who said something to
        the effect of "the path of self-destruction leads to
        the kingdom of heaven." I remember that this notion
        first began to consciously click with me when it was
        presented in a Waldorf teacher training class in
        Eugene, Oregon. There are people I have found in my
        life who have personally fallen victim to the power of
        drugs, sex, violence, etc. Some are now no longer
        with us as a result; however, those who have been able
        to pull themselves out of their vicious cycles and
        turn their lives around are quite often some of the
        most stable, clear thinking people I know. Recovery
        is a humbling experience that reminds one how small
        and powerless one has become, but in the truth of this
        realization eventially will grow a priceless knowledge
        of self and strength of character unparalleled, for
        example, in the individual who spends his life
        constantly avoiding "dangerous" and "sinful pleasures"
        on unconscious/mechanical "moral" grounds and fear.
        The powerful slave master who realizes the danger in
        his ways and uses his power to free his subjects and
        alter his course will generally prove a much better
        ally in times of trouble and need than the individual
        who never touches the lives of others or the world
        around him for fear of the possible repercussions.

        We cannot alter the past, but we can learn to take all
        of our experiences and use them in creating the life
        we'd like to realize moving forward from this point.
        In this way, something as harmful as habitual
        substance usage can be utilized to a longer term
        benefit far outweighing the short term destruction.

        To Dr. Starman- Thank you for your insightful
        responses to the wide array of questions presented in
        this group. Please, if you would, elucidate the
        troubles specific to the habitual use of stimulants
        such as cocaine and methamphetamine. I know that R.S.
        gave a lecture to the workers at the Gotheanum on the
        harmful effects of cocaine use, but I have not been
        able to track it down over these years. I do remember
        reading something once that placed the narcotics (such
        as opium) in the East and cocaine and hallucinogens in
        the West, with alcohol and marijuana in the middle.
        This I have pondered since with interest, with
        Lucifer, it seems, being the Lord of selfless sleep
        and Ahriman the Lord of selfish physical attachment.

        Thank you!-
        George


        --- DRStarman2001@... wrote:
        > sarahfe@... writes
        > > I find this really interesting because I smoked
        > pot more or less daily for 2
        > > - 3 years at university (16 years ago now), it
        > just seemed like a bit of
        > > fun
        > > at the time. Recently, through analysing my life,
        > and trying to work out
        > > what the hell is wrong with me, I began to suspect
        > that that was the
        > > turning
        > > point in where things really went wrong. Not that
        > I am a disaster area, but
        > > I am not as strong as I would like to be - as I
        > know I need to be - and I
        > > still crave stimulants, especially alcohol and
        > also smoking although I can
        > > go through periods without either when things are
        > good. Also my motivation
        > > is pretty hit and miss. I definitely feel that my
        > ego was eroded, because I
        > > know I was different before.
        > > I would be interested to know what alcohol and
        > smoking do to you in the
        > > terms of spiritual science. It might even help me
        > get rid of them for good,
        > > since I get so close quite often but then get
        > dragged down again.
        > > Also, what things would help to reverse any of
        > this erosion of the ego,
        > > dislocation of the astral body etc.. Someone else
        > also metioned the effect
        > > of drugs on the chakras.
        > > I've never heard it called hippie lettuce before -
        > that must be an American
        > > term!
        > > Thanks,
        > > Sarah FE
        >
        > *******Actually, I've lived in America most of my
        > life and I've never heard
        > that term before. But as far as the effects of
        > different substances are
        > concerned, I can tell you a little bit. It's very
        > perceptive of you to note
        > the change in your behavior began at the time of
        > heavy marijuana use.
        > Naturally, as people become addicted to any mind
        > altering substance, they
        > become progressively less able to objectively see
        > its effect on them. (I've
        > had people flatly deny to me that smoking marijuana
        > has any effect on them,
        > when any outside person can see it doing so-- -- --
        > and of course, if it had
        > no effect, they wouldn't crave it.) What it does is
        > to slightly loosen the
        > astral body from the physical, as any narcotic does.
        > Even the word
        > "narcotic" comes from an ancient term for "sleep",
        > and all narcotics put you
        > in a sort of sleep state, or in other words,
        > separate the soul from the body,
        > as naturally happens in sleep. Some induce a sort of
        > dreamless sleep state, a
        > numbing of the physical body, while others induce a
        > sort of dream state while
        > you're awake -- -- -- these are the hallucinogens.
        > T. H. C. is a mild
        > hallucinogen, and in small amounts is not harmful,
        > but regular use of it
        > causes the soul to be unable to insert itself into
        > the body correctly. The
        > material results of this are in coordination between
        > the two hemispheres of
        > the brain. The supersensible results are not that
        > the Ego is weakened, but
        > that it is unable to manifest completely in the
        > body, resulting in a lack of
        > will power and motivation.
        >
        > The craving for this altered state comes about
        > from an inability to bear
        > looking at the reality of one's life in some form.
        > It makes one's
        > consciousness "fuzzy" or in other words not clearly
        > experience the
        > perceptions of the body. People who want to run away
        > from the
        > sense-perceptible reality of their lives crave it,
        > but unfortunately it's
        > just a world of illusion. Actually, what is
        > perceived in that state is real
        > -- -- -- all hallucinations are real -- -- --but
        > because they are experienced
        > in a way suddenly induced by a substance, your
        > consciousness cannot
        > understand them or deal with them correctly. Your
        > flawed consciousness turns
        > what is experienced into illusions, or in other
        > words, misinterprets all of
        > it. For comparison, take a strong hallucinogen like
        > LSD-25. It is chemically
        > almost identical to serotonin, which is secreted by
        > the pineal gland when it
        > is stimulated. Thus the mystic who gradually
        > stimulates the third eye has
        > higher experiences in an altered state of
        > consciousness, but the gradual
        > process of doing this naturally gives one the
        > ability to understand what one
        > experiences. Introducing the substance from outside
        > without this preparation
        > just gives you lots of experiences you are
        > unprepared to assimilate.
        >
        > Alcohol is a quite different matter. It doesn't
        > raise the soul up out of
        > the body, but cuts off the lower part of the soul
        > from the higher and presses
        > it more deeply into the body. In the drug culture,
        > people using a lot of
        > hallucinogens crave alcohol because it counteracts
        > the effect and makes the
        > hallucinogenic "trip" easier to manage. Just as THC
        > building up in the brain
        > make it progressively harder for the Ego to will in
        > the body, the buildup of
        > alcohol in the tissues make it harder and harder for
        > the higher consciousness
        > to manifest in the body. Alcohol is the opposite of
        > the soul. The sign of
        > this is that alcohol can only be produced in an
        > environment without oxygen,
        > showing that it's the opposite of oxygen, which is
        > the physical element that
        > the soul uses to come into the body. Just as people
        > crave hallucinogens who
        > don't want to look clearly at the sensible reality
        > of their lives, so people
        > crave alcohol who want to ignore their higher
        > selves, live without the
        > requirements that being a human being impose on us
        > such as conscious decision
        > making. (A lot of people who are trying to run away
        > from their psychic
        > ability will use alcohol to extinguish it.)
        > Combining the two has the effect
        > of gradually reducing a human being to a state
        > resembling the animal. The
        > actual human part can no longer manifest.
        > Spiritual science is based on increasing one's
        > consciousness, not
        > decreasing it, so that it has nothing in common with
        > any drug experiences or
        > pathological states like mediumship, etc. These are
        > not supernatural
        > experiences but sub-natural. I always agreed with
        > and remembered two things
        > from the '60s: Ken Kesey and Baba Ram Dass saying
        > that drug experiences are a
        > hint that there's something out there to be sought,
        > but that you have to find
        > it without the drugs; and Carlos Castenada's don
        > Juan saying that every time
        > you take a substance into you, you also take in the
        > immortal spiritual being
        > who made that plant, and then you either must make
        > that being an "ally" or
        > fall under its power. There are lots of people who
        > think they can walk the
        > spiritual path while continuing to put themselves
        > under the power of the
        > various gods of nature, but only a fool gives one of
        > these power over him.
        >
        > Dr. Starman
        > Serves the god of caffeine however
        > http://www.DrStarman.net
        >


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