Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Hippie Lettuce

Expand Messages
  • Sarah Ford Elliott
    I find this really interesting because I smoked pot more or less daily for 2 - 3 years at university (16 years ago now), it just seemed like a bit of fun at
    Message 1 of 7 , Nov 26, 2002
    • 0 Attachment
      I find this really interesting because I smoked pot more or less daily for 2
      - 3 years at university (16 years ago now), it just seemed like a bit of fun
      at the time. Recently, through analysing my life, and trying to work out
      what the hell is wrong with me, I began to suspect that that was the turning
      point in where things really went wrong. Not that I am a disaster area, but
      I am not as strong as I would like to be - as I know I need to be - and I
      still crave stimulants, especially alcohol and also smoking although I can
      go through periods without either when things are good. Also my motivation
      is pretty hit and miss. I definitely feel that my ego was eroded, because I
      know I was different before.

      I would be interested to know what alcohol and smoking do to you in the
      terms of spiritual science. It might even help me get rid of them for good,
      since I get so close quite often but then get dragged down again.

      Also, what things would help to reverse any of this erosion of the ego,
      dislocation of the astral body etc.. Someone else also metioned the effect
      of drugs on the chakras.

      I've never heard it called hippie lettuce before - that must be an American
      term!

      Thanks,

      Sarah FE
    • DRStarman2001@aol.com
      sarahfe@v21mail.co.uk writes ... *******Actually, I ve lived in America most of my life and I ve never heard that term before. But as far as the effects of
      Message 2 of 7 , Dec 1, 2002
      • 0 Attachment
        sarahfe@... writes
        I find this really interesting because I smoked pot more or less daily for 2
        - 3 years at university (16 years ago now), it just seemed like a bit of fun
        at the time. Recently, through analysing my life, and trying to work out
        what the hell is wrong with me, I began to suspect that that was the turning
        point in where things really went wrong. Not that I am a disaster area, but
        I am not as strong as I would like to be - as I know I need to be - and I
        still crave stimulants, especially alcohol and also smoking although I can
        go through periods without either when things are good. Also my motivation
        is pretty hit and miss. I definitely feel that my ego was eroded, because I
        know I was different before.
        I would be interested to know what alcohol and smoking do to you in the
        terms of spiritual science. It might even help me get rid of them for good,
        since I get so close quite often but then get dragged down again.
        Also, what things would help to reverse any of this erosion of the ego,
        dislocation of the astral body etc.. Someone else also metioned the effect
        of drugs on the chakras.
        I've never heard it called hippie lettuce before - that must be an American
        term!
        Thanks,
        Sarah FE


        *******Actually, I've lived in America most of my life and I've never heard that term before. But as far as the effects of different substances are concerned, I can tell you a little bit. It's very perceptive of you to note the change in your behavior began at the time of heavy marijuana use. Naturally, as people become addicted to any mind altering substance, they become progressively less able to objectively see its effect on them. (I've had people flatly deny to me that smoking marijuana has any effect on them, when any outside person can see it doing so-- -- -- and of course, if it had no effect, they wouldn't crave it.) What it does is to slightly loosen the astral body from the physical, as any narcotic does.  Even the word "narcotic" comes from an ancient term for "sleep", and all narcotics put you in a sort of sleep state, or in other words, separate the soul from the body, as naturally happens in sleep. Some induce a sort of dreamless sleep state, a numbing of the physical body, while others induce a sort of dream state while you're awake -- -- -- these are the hallucinogens. T. H. C. is a mild hallucinogen, and in small amounts is not harmful, but regular use of it causes the soul to be unable to insert itself into the body correctly.  The material results of this are in coordination between the two hemispheres of the brain. The supersensible results are not that the Ego is weakened, but that it is unable to manifest completely in the body, resulting in a lack of will power and motivation.

             The craving for this altered state comes about from an inability to bear looking at the reality of one's life in some form. It makes one's consciousness "fuzzy" or in other words not clearly experience the perceptions of the body. People who want to run away from the sense-perceptible reality of their lives crave it, but unfortunately it's just a world of illusion. Actually, what is perceived in that state is real -- -- -- all hallucinations are real -- -- --but because they are experienced in a way suddenly induced by a substance, your consciousness cannot understand them or deal with them correctly. Your flawed consciousness turns what is experienced into illusions, or in other words, misinterprets all of it. For comparison, take a strong hallucinogen like LSD-25. It is chemically almost identical to serotonin, which is secreted by the pineal gland when it is stimulated. Thus the mystic who gradually stimulates the third eye has higher experiences in an altered state of consciousness, but the gradual process of doing this naturally gives one the ability to understand what one experiences. Introducing the substance from outside without this preparation just gives you lots of experiences you are unprepared to assimilate.

            Alcohol is a quite different matter.  It doesn't raise the soul up out of the body, but cuts off the lower part of the soul from the higher and presses it more deeply into the body. In the drug culture, people using a lot of hallucinogens crave alcohol because it counteracts the effect and makes the hallucinogenic "trip" easier to manage. Just as THC building up in the brain make it progressively harder for the Ego to will in the body, the buildup of alcohol in the tissues make it harder and harder for the higher consciousness to manifest in the body. Alcohol is the opposite of the soul. The sign of this is that alcohol can only be produced in an environment without oxygen, showing that it's the opposite of oxygen, which is the physical element that the soul uses to come into the body. Just as people crave hallucinogens who don't want to look clearly at the sensible reality of their lives, so people crave alcohol who want to ignore their higher selves, live without the requirements that being a human being impose on us such as conscious decision making. (A lot of people who are trying to run away from their psychic ability will use alcohol to extinguish it.) Combining the two has the effect of gradually reducing a human being to a state resembling the animal. The actual human part can no longer manifest.
            Spiritual science is based on increasing one's consciousness, not decreasing it, so that it has nothing in common with any drug experiences or pathological states like mediumship, etc. These are not supernatural experiences but sub-natural. I always agreed with and remembered two things from the '60s: Ken Kesey and Baba Ram Dass saying that drug experiences are a hint that there's something out there to be sought, but that you have to find it without the drugs; and Carlos Castenada's don Juan saying that every time you take a substance into you, you also take in the immortal spiritual being who made that plant, and then you either must make that being an "ally" or fall under its power. There are lots of people who think they can walk the spiritual path while continuing to put themselves under the power of the various gods of nature, but only a fool gives one of these power over him.

        Dr. Starman
        Serves the god of caffeine however
        http://www.DrStarman.net
      • George Thomas
        There is certainly value in recognizing that habitual use of substances creates negative effects in the various bodies, but when it comes to a question of
        Message 3 of 7 , Dec 5, 2002
        • 0 Attachment
          There is certainly value in recognizing that habitual
          use of substances creates negative effects in the
          various bodies, but when it comes to a question of
          individual evolution, it seems that the assessment of
          harm done through such an experience is not always
          easy to delineate. There are so many factors at work
          in our modern world that inhibit the healthy evolution
          of humanity.

          Sarah stated that she finds the 2-3 years she smoked
          marijuana in university to be a turning point and the
          beginning of troubles she continues to work through
          today. Of course, her marijuana smoking contributed
          to her current state of being, as did other factors
          such as the form of her education and her diet leading
          up to university. It becomes a difficult issue to
          discern the effects of the various factors when the
          average westerner who experiments with substances most
          often does so during the critical years of the late
          teens to early '20's, thereby compounding the effects
          of substance usage with the effects of the incarnating
          ego. From a certain vantage point, substance use or
          not, many of us could say that our troubles really
          began during those years of university because up
          until that point, for most of us, troubles of an adult
          nature do not exist. Our families usually provide for
          our needs, etc. Adult questions related to carving
          out a life for oneself don't usually exist until those
          university years when we begin moving from studying
          who and what we are to creating who and what we want
          to be going forward. The current western educational
          system and the American diet are just two factors
          aside from substance use that have a huge impact on
          how the ego manifests itself. (And I would say these
          are much larger issues, which when set aright would
          lead to the general extinction of substance abuse
          problems for much of the population.)

          It is potentially dangerous to put oneself under the
          spell of a nature spirit, as it is potentially
          dangerous to put oneself under the spell of television
          and the careless application of modern medicine.
          There appears to be a saving grace, perhaps, in the
          regular use of marijuana in juxtaposition to the
          careless and regular use of television and modern
          pharmaceuticals in that there is an ancient nature
          spirit working in marijuana that has long served a
          particular role in the evolution of humanity, albeit
          generally out of place in our current state of
          consciousness. At the least, we are being connected
          with a being with a natural life. Even if this
          connection does become too strong and unhealthy, it
          personally seems more pleasant in the interim to be
          under the spell of the grotesque beauty of the life of
          nature than the cold calculations of technology.

          There are individuals who are led to the scientific
          investigation of the human soul and spirit in part
          through substance-related experiences. Once such
          people are on the path of modern initiation, they will
          invariably note that higher forms of consciousness
          need to be found without the use of substances;
          however, it doesn't negate the fact that their own use
          of substances helped to lead these people to this
          conclusion. (Carlos Castenada, Ken Kesey, et al., --
          and with Ken Kesey it is also true that he continued
          from time to time to dabble with psychedelic drugs
          despite his statement in the mid-'60's that such
          activity was not the ultimate path.) There are many
          factors contradicting the healthy evolution of the
          human being, and it is quite possible that some
          individuals are in the end assisted by the shock
          provided by a psychedelic experience, which jars one
          temporarily out of the reality in which one has become
          fixed. Of course, the work necessary to lift an
          individual out of such a predicament on a lasting
          basis must ultimately be done in full and clear
          consciousness, and these substances no longer hold
          their place.

          It was William Blake, I believe, who said something to
          the effect of "the path of self-destruction leads to
          the kingdom of heaven." I remember that this notion
          first began to consciously click with me when it was
          presented in a Waldorf teacher training class in
          Eugene, Oregon. There are people I have found in my
          life who have personally fallen victim to the power of
          drugs, sex, violence, etc. Some are now no longer
          with us as a result; however, those who have been able
          to pull themselves out of their vicious cycles and
          turn their lives around are quite often some of the
          most stable, clear thinking people I know. Recovery
          is a humbling experience that reminds one how small
          and powerless one has become, but in the truth of this
          realization eventially will grow a priceless knowledge
          of self and strength of character unparalleled, for
          example, in the individual who spends his life
          constantly avoiding "dangerous" and "sinful pleasures"
          on unconscious/mechanical "moral" grounds and fear.
          The powerful slave master who realizes the danger in
          his ways and uses his power to free his subjects and
          alter his course will generally prove a much better
          ally in times of trouble and need than the individual
          who never touches the lives of others or the world
          around him for fear of the possible repercussions.

          We cannot alter the past, but we can learn to take all
          of our experiences and use them in creating the life
          we'd like to realize moving forward from this point.
          In this way, something as harmful as habitual
          substance usage can be utilized to a longer term
          benefit far outweighing the short term destruction.

          To Dr. Starman- Thank you for your insightful
          responses to the wide array of questions presented in
          this group. Please, if you would, elucidate the
          troubles specific to the habitual use of stimulants
          such as cocaine and methamphetamine. I know that R.S.
          gave a lecture to the workers at the Gotheanum on the
          harmful effects of cocaine use, but I have not been
          able to track it down over these years. I do remember
          reading something once that placed the narcotics (such
          as opium) in the East and cocaine and hallucinogens in
          the West, with alcohol and marijuana in the middle.
          This I have pondered since with interest, with
          Lucifer, it seems, being the Lord of selfless sleep
          and Ahriman the Lord of selfish physical attachment.

          Thank you!-
          George


          --- DRStarman2001@... wrote:
          > sarahfe@... writes
          > > I find this really interesting because I smoked
          > pot more or less daily for 2
          > > - 3 years at university (16 years ago now), it
          > just seemed like a bit of
          > > fun
          > > at the time. Recently, through analysing my life,
          > and trying to work out
          > > what the hell is wrong with me, I began to suspect
          > that that was the
          > > turning
          > > point in where things really went wrong. Not that
          > I am a disaster area, but
          > > I am not as strong as I would like to be - as I
          > know I need to be - and I
          > > still crave stimulants, especially alcohol and
          > also smoking although I can
          > > go through periods without either when things are
          > good. Also my motivation
          > > is pretty hit and miss. I definitely feel that my
          > ego was eroded, because I
          > > know I was different before.
          > > I would be interested to know what alcohol and
          > smoking do to you in the
          > > terms of spiritual science. It might even help me
          > get rid of them for good,
          > > since I get so close quite often but then get
          > dragged down again.
          > > Also, what things would help to reverse any of
          > this erosion of the ego,
          > > dislocation of the astral body etc.. Someone else
          > also metioned the effect
          > > of drugs on the chakras.
          > > I've never heard it called hippie lettuce before -
          > that must be an American
          > > term!
          > > Thanks,
          > > Sarah FE
          >
          > *******Actually, I've lived in America most of my
          > life and I've never heard
          > that term before. But as far as the effects of
          > different substances are
          > concerned, I can tell you a little bit. It's very
          > perceptive of you to note
          > the change in your behavior began at the time of
          > heavy marijuana use.
          > Naturally, as people become addicted to any mind
          > altering substance, they
          > become progressively less able to objectively see
          > its effect on them. (I've
          > had people flatly deny to me that smoking marijuana
          > has any effect on them,
          > when any outside person can see it doing so-- -- --
          > and of course, if it had
          > no effect, they wouldn't crave it.) What it does is
          > to slightly loosen the
          > astral body from the physical, as any narcotic does.
          > Even the word
          > "narcotic" comes from an ancient term for "sleep",
          > and all narcotics put you
          > in a sort of sleep state, or in other words,
          > separate the soul from the body,
          > as naturally happens in sleep. Some induce a sort of
          > dreamless sleep state, a
          > numbing of the physical body, while others induce a
          > sort of dream state while
          > you're awake -- -- -- these are the hallucinogens.
          > T. H. C. is a mild
          > hallucinogen, and in small amounts is not harmful,
          > but regular use of it
          > causes the soul to be unable to insert itself into
          > the body correctly. The
          > material results of this are in coordination between
          > the two hemispheres of
          > the brain. The supersensible results are not that
          > the Ego is weakened, but
          > that it is unable to manifest completely in the
          > body, resulting in a lack of
          > will power and motivation.
          >
          > The craving for this altered state comes about
          > from an inability to bear
          > looking at the reality of one's life in some form.
          > It makes one's
          > consciousness "fuzzy" or in other words not clearly
          > experience the
          > perceptions of the body. People who want to run away
          > from the
          > sense-perceptible reality of their lives crave it,
          > but unfortunately it's
          > just a world of illusion. Actually, what is
          > perceived in that state is real
          > -- -- -- all hallucinations are real -- -- --but
          > because they are experienced
          > in a way suddenly induced by a substance, your
          > consciousness cannot
          > understand them or deal with them correctly. Your
          > flawed consciousness turns
          > what is experienced into illusions, or in other
          > words, misinterprets all of
          > it. For comparison, take a strong hallucinogen like
          > LSD-25. It is chemically
          > almost identical to serotonin, which is secreted by
          > the pineal gland when it
          > is stimulated. Thus the mystic who gradually
          > stimulates the third eye has
          > higher experiences in an altered state of
          > consciousness, but the gradual
          > process of doing this naturally gives one the
          > ability to understand what one
          > experiences. Introducing the substance from outside
          > without this preparation
          > just gives you lots of experiences you are
          > unprepared to assimilate.
          >
          > Alcohol is a quite different matter. It doesn't
          > raise the soul up out of
          > the body, but cuts off the lower part of the soul
          > from the higher and presses
          > it more deeply into the body. In the drug culture,
          > people using a lot of
          > hallucinogens crave alcohol because it counteracts
          > the effect and makes the
          > hallucinogenic "trip" easier to manage. Just as THC
          > building up in the brain
          > make it progressively harder for the Ego to will in
          > the body, the buildup of
          > alcohol in the tissues make it harder and harder for
          > the higher consciousness
          > to manifest in the body. Alcohol is the opposite of
          > the soul. The sign of
          > this is that alcohol can only be produced in an
          > environment without oxygen,
          > showing that it's the opposite of oxygen, which is
          > the physical element that
          > the soul uses to come into the body. Just as people
          > crave hallucinogens who
          > don't want to look clearly at the sensible reality
          > of their lives, so people
          > crave alcohol who want to ignore their higher
          > selves, live without the
          > requirements that being a human being impose on us
          > such as conscious decision
          > making. (A lot of people who are trying to run away
          > from their psychic
          > ability will use alcohol to extinguish it.)
          > Combining the two has the effect
          > of gradually reducing a human being to a state
          > resembling the animal. The
          > actual human part can no longer manifest.
          > Spiritual science is based on increasing one's
          > consciousness, not
          > decreasing it, so that it has nothing in common with
          > any drug experiences or
          > pathological states like mediumship, etc. These are
          > not supernatural
          > experiences but sub-natural. I always agreed with
          > and remembered two things
          > from the '60s: Ken Kesey and Baba Ram Dass saying
          > that drug experiences are a
          > hint that there's something out there to be sought,
          > but that you have to find
          > it without the drugs; and Carlos Castenada's don
          > Juan saying that every time
          > you take a substance into you, you also take in the
          > immortal spiritual being
          > who made that plant, and then you either must make
          > that being an "ally" or
          > fall under its power. There are lots of people who
          > think they can walk the
          > spiritual path while continuing to put themselves
          > under the power of the
          > various gods of nature, but only a fool gives one of
          > these power over him.
          >
          > Dr. Starman
          > Serves the god of caffeine however
          > http://www.DrStarman.net
          >


          __________________________________________________
          Do you Yahoo!?
          Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
          http://mailplus.yahoo.com
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.