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  • jla
    Well, I learn something every day, as usual. I was not aware of Steiner s call for assistance (reference, please) from the Christ. I always wondered how he and
    Message 1 of 3 , Oct 22, 2000
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      Well, I learn something every day, as usual. I was not aware of Steiner's call for assistance (reference, please) from the Christ. I always wondered how he and the few others of this orientation could withstand the fearsome and loathsome
      encounters that must be dealt with in various stages of Christian/Rosicrucian initiation.
      Just reading Dante's Inferno gives inner feeling of it and that was enough during college for my young mind.

      I have read Robert at times but not this piece. I will go to it.

      Thanks,

      Jeff

      Sena Fernando wrote:

      Jeff,
              I do take your point. Your comment highlights the problems we
      encounter when we use material images to represent a spiritual being.
      It may be that we need to use more than one image to illustrate the
      different aspects of a Being. Is not Christ himself sometimes
      represented by a fish?
               It seems to me that the image of the whale coming up from the
      depths of the sea is a useful one to remind us of the "monsters" in
      our unconscious mind. I am sure you are aware that Steiner turned to
      Christ when he encountered such horrifying entities in the spiritual
      world. It would not be surprising if Lucifer presented himself as a
      human of dazzling beauty in order to deceive people.
               Have you come across this essay by Robert S. Mason?
      http://www.elib.com/Steiner/RelArtic/Ahriman/ahriman.html#tableofconte
      nts
               Quoting from it, Chapter 7, "Good and Evil": "Michael casts
      the Dragon out of heaven; immediately afterwards arise the
      two 'beasts' - the first from the sea (Lucifer) and the second from
      the land (Ahriman)." This is the imagery  ofthe Apocalypse.
                   Regards,
                     Sena
      --- In steiner@egroups.com, jla <pacbay@h...> wrote:
      > Though I can intuitively sense the really of the Ahrimanic image
      > (behemoth) and the lamb as Christ, I find it hard to attribute the
      great
      > whale to Lucifer. Though it is a  deep ocean (Astral) creature,
      Lucifer
      > is usually depicted as glorified human of dazzling and deceptive
      beauty
      > tempting us to extend up and escape from the earth and return to
      > "perfection" even though we are not even near that goal. This sense
      of
      > levity and supernatural spirituality runs counter to the whale
      choice.
      >
      >
      > Jeff
      >
      >
       


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    • Sena Fernando
      Dear Jeff, I may have given the wrong impression by suggesting that Steiner called for assistance from the Christ. This is something I read in Scientist of
      Message 2 of 3 , Oct 23, 2000
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        Dear Jeff,
        I may have given the wrong impression by suggesting that Steiner
        called for assistance from the Christ. This is something I read
        in "Scientist of the Invisible" by A.E.Shepherd. I may be getting the
        details wrong as I don't have the book with me at the moment. What I
        recollect is that Steiner was putting tremendous efforts into
        exploring the spiritual world, and was consequently being subjected
        to vicious attacks by evil spirits. It is said that at one point he
        was near to a psychotic breakdown. Then (the year was probably 1898
        or thereabouts), he had a vision of the Event of Golgotha. It was
        more than a vision, he was actually there. It was after that that he
        began to teach about the Christ. I am sure you are familiar with all
        this, and I hope you will be able to point out any misconceptions I
        may be laboring under.
        The book may not be that easy to get hold of - You could try
        this link:
        http://www.esotericlinks.com/shepherd3.html
        Regards,
        Sena
        --- In steiner@egroups.com, jla <pacbay@h...> wrote:
        > Well, I learn something every day, as usual. I was not aware of
        > Steiner's call for assistance (reference, please) from the Christ. I
        > always wondered how he and the few others of this orientation could
        > withstand the fearsome and loathsome
        > encounters that must be dealt with in various stages of
        > Christian/Rosicrucian initiation.
        > Just reading Dante's Inferno gives inner feeling of it and that was
        > enough during college for my young mind.
        >
        > I have read Robert at times but not this piece. I will go to it.
        >
        > Thanks,
        >
        > Jeff
        >
        >
      • jla
        I actually have an early edition from the 70 s but have not read it for years. I will go back and review. What you say sounds plausible and highly possible in
        Message 3 of 3 , Oct 24, 2000
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          I actually have an early edition from the 70's but have not read it for years. I will go back and review. What you say sounds plausible and highly possible in the spiritual work he did . Thanks. By the way, its interesting again that Steiner (at least in the English translations of the lectures and books) often spoke of adversarial forces and beings but rarely if ever mentioned personal encounters or details.

          Jeff

          Sena Fernando wrote:

          Dear Jeff,
               I may have given the wrong impression by suggesting that Steiner
          called for assistance from the Christ. This is something I read
          in "Scientist of the Invisible" by A.E.Shepherd. I may be getting the
          details wrong as I don't have the book with me at the moment. What I
          recollect is that Steiner was putting tremendous efforts into
          exploring the spiritual world, and was consequently being subjected
          to vicious attacks by evil spirits. It is said that at one point he
          was near to a psychotic breakdown. Then (the year was probably 1898
          or thereabouts), he had a vision of the Event of Golgotha. It was
          more than a vision, he was actually there. It was after that that he
          began to teach about the Christ. I am sure you are familiar with all
          this, and I hope you will be able to point out any misconceptions I
          may be laboring under.
                The book may not be that easy to get hold of - You could try
          this link:
            http://www.esotericlinks.com/shepherd3.html
                  Regards,
                    Sena
          --- In steiner@egroups.com, jla <pacbay@h...> wrote:
          > Well, I learn something every day, as usual. I was not aware of
          > Steiner's call for assistance (reference, please) from the Christ. I
          > always wondered how he and the few others of this orientation could
          > withstand the fearsome and loathsome
          > encounters that must be dealt with in various stages of
          > Christian/Rosicrucian initiation.
          > Just reading Dante's Inferno gives inner feeling of it and that was
          > enough during college for my young mind.
          >
          > I have read Robert at times but not this piece. I will go to it.
          >
          > Thanks,
          >
          > Jeff
          >
          >
           


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