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Re: Unique Place of Christ

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  • evlogite
    Hi Jeff: Is it preconceived notion and bias that blinds us? Interesting. I know that it is possible to be very developed along one aspect of the spiritual
    Message 1 of 12 , Jul 2, 2002
      Hi Jeff:
      Is it preconceived notion and bias that blinds us?
      Interesting. I know that it is possible to be very developed along
      one aspect of the spiritual path (devotional path, for example) and
      have a major blindspot regarding something that falls outside the
      scope of one's training (tolerance for non-believers, for example).
      I wonder what PARTICULAR aspect causes the individual to "miss the
      boat" or reject the Christ Event. Is it merely the sometimes bad
      track record of historical Christianity? Help me out here.


      PS I remember a killer quote by RS regarding the knowledge of the
      Trinity; does anyone know exactly how it goes?

      (Ignorance of the Father is a ... , of the Son an illness and of the
      Holy Spirit a tragedy.--) If anyone knows how this goes, my thanks in

      --- In steiner@y..., "jla" <pacbay@a...> wrote:
      > Durwood,
      > Might there be something else that may also "blind some" to the
      nature of the Christ? There must be some bias carried over into the
      spiritual world that prevents even some very advanced souls from
      seeing the "fact" of the Christ Being. Great Teachers like Aurobindo,
      Meher Baba, the Dali Lama, and others reached very exalted
      transcendental states far beyond the astral yet missed the boat
      across Jordan, so to speak. And if the Christ is now active as the
      Etheric Christ, surely He must be present and noticeable in the lower
      realms as well????
      > Jeff
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: DRStarman2001@a...
      > To: steiner@y...
      > Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 11:48 AM
      > Subject: Re: [steiner] Unique Place of Christ
      > evlogite@y... writes:
      > > Hi Everyone:
      > > Why is it that so many otherwise insightful streams confuse the
      role of Christ in the universe? I am currently trying to understand
      the blind spot that some, such as Alice Bailey, Besant, et al, have
      regarding Christ. Bailey sees Christ as an cosmic position (office)
      which a number of beings periodically occupy (if I understand her
      writings correctly). Does anyone here have an insight into this? I
      would appreciate any help that you can give.
      > *******I would say it simply shows how far along the Path a
      person has gotten. We meet the Christ Being at a certain point, the
      point of legitimate entry into the spiritual world with the ability
      to come and go at will from then on. Entry onto the astral plane does
      not require this. In the same way as a physical scientist can
      recognize whether a man has or has not mastered calculus, or has only
      reached a point of beginning to acquire the thinking needed to do so,
      a spiritual scientist can recognize whether a person has reached a
      particular level or not.
      > For example, Dr. Steiner once discussed Mr. Leadbeater's book
      with its descriptions of the astral plane and lower Devachan. He
      confirmed that the description of the astral plane was real, but said
      quite objectively that the alleged description of Devachan there was
      merely a re-worked depiction of the astral again (because anyone who
      reaches it knows it is "heard", not seen).
      > Similarly, look at Swami Yogananda's work. Though educated
      entirely in Eastern wisdom, he recognized that the Being he knew
      through Initiation was the same described by Western English
      Christianity in his country (as did his guru, Sri Yukteswar).
      > Just as entering the spiritual world without self-knowledge
      does not enable one to orient oneself, and thus it's required to
      recognize one's alter ego as the Lesser Guardian first, so the final
      entry that enables one to come and go at will from then on requires
      one to recognize that Other, the One who became the Mediator. Many
      people in the West have become alienated from the Christ through the
      perversion of the Christian religion by the opposing Powers, and so
      have a great difficulty doing this. It is of critical importance to
      be able to do so, however, or else one's occultism will merely
      become 'Luciferic' or 'Ahrimanic'. Dr. Steiner came to rescue the
      impulse of the White Brotherhood we call Theosophy from this fate, so
      that it could be fruitful. One could even perhaps say he came to
      rescue Christianity from the same doom.
      > Dr. Starman
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    • jla
      Evlogite, Here is a point of view on this issue of knowing the Christ directly: It is clear from esoteric and spiritual reports that bias in not just within us
      Message 2 of 12 , Jul 2, 2002
        Here is a point of view on this issue of knowing the Christ directly:
        It is clear from esoteric and spiritual reports that bias in not just within us but externalizes itself in the Astral realms as images, environments, and inclinations. We gravitate to certain regions and in contact with certain beings in the spiritual worlds based on bias or affiliation. If one is a Buddhist then one will gravitate and support Buddhist astral and devachanic imagery and beings; if one is a Jew or Hindu the same holds true;, and so on. Until one rids oneself of all presuppositions and can eliminate bias, one will see only what is within oneself as externalized and supported as a group astral environment. Eventually we are led to other cultures and religions but fundamental bias can carry over from life to life.
        If one thinks the Christ is just another adept or just a wise rabbi, then that is what will appear as "knowledge" to one in most cases. Often the shock of death or a traumatic spiritual experience will propel one out of bias and one will see things as they are.  There are other esoteric explanations involving actual deceptive practices but we will pass on that for now.
         Until one enters the spiritual worlds completely open, morally strong and with a predominance of objectivity, certain beings and events will be hidden or seen with limitations, it seems, and this would include the Christ.
      • antrolutz
        Thanks, Dr Starman! Any ideas about wether/how the Aristotelian / Platonic streams fit into that? Do you have a view of how the Platonic return works out
        Message 3 of 12 , Jul 19, 2002
          Thanks, Dr Starman!

          Any ideas about wether/how the Aristotelian / Platonic streams fit
          into that?

          Do you have a view of how the Platonic "return" works out nowadays
          and the cooperation Steiner hoped for?

          I am ready for a looong answer, if it suits you.

          Greetings, Lutz

          Dr.Starman, earlier:
          > *******It was indeed in the Karma lectures he gave at the end of
          his life, on
          > the karma of those of us who would be attracted to the
          > Sopciety, in fact. But what he said was that there would be three
          > one, a group who were attracted to the cosmology (astrology, etc.)
          due to a
          > strong influence from their incarnations in pre-Christian pagan
          > schools; then a second group who had no such, but did have a
          > heart-understanding of the Christ from their incarnations in the
          > Christian era; and a third group who would be sort of moving from
          one stream
          > to the other. One can see this in those who take up the Christian
          > but have a hard time with "Ancient Saturn", "Fire Spirits" and
          what not, and
          > others who can wax eloquently about occult cosmology but don't
          relate to
          > "Jesus stuff" too well. For an example of the third, look at John
          > who published all the Myrin Institute "Proceedings" but towards
          the end of
          > his life joined a born-again Christian group and saw how their
          > heart-relation to Christ had such valid results for them, and
          wrote a little
          > book, "Two Paths To The Spirit: Charismatic Christianity and
          > Dr. Starman
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