5205RE: [steiner] Re: Success of anthroposophy
- Aug 22, 2010Robert (RB) : "As I see it – mainly from an "outside" perspective – anthroposophy has not been very successful so far.
> Starman responded: That judgement depends on what we think would be 'success'.... How do you wish to judge success?RB: By success I mean that established science has taken up anthroposophy or the approaches of anthroposophy to such extent that it has started to do science in other ways than it did before. ..When (some time...) this happens I think large portions of society will follow, because science is really the cult (or at least the outside cult) of our times, and the business life and political life will follow its judgements on what can be seen as accepted knowledge.
******* I think that anthroposophy is going to make any headway in science LAST of all, because scientists are most seriously enwrapped in the delusionary paradigm of the modern world. Take three questions as examples: is the sun hot, is the interior of the Earth hot, and did living creatures evolve by simple random genetic change? Your typical scientist will explain that absolutely he knows the sun is hot, he knows the interior of the earth is, and he can recite the Darwinian gospel chapter and verse. However, any thinking person can point out that no one has been to the sun and so cannot have direct first-hand knowledge, likewise no one has been more than 5 miles into the interior of the earth, and no one was around to see how ancient life forms came into existence, and no advanced lifeforms can be changed into others in the laboratory so there is no experimental verification. Any thinking person has the right to doubt inferential knowledge and theories. In the scientific community, exercise that right and the masters of its dogma will end your career.
Fortunately, people will make choices about how they want their children to be raised, for instance, regardless of what all the scientists in the world have to say. Otherwise all religious schools would've vanished already. People likewise if they have cancer will try nontraditional treatments even if 1000 Nobel Prize winners tell them they can't possibly work. So I think anthroposophy will make its way among ordinary people long before the brainwashed scientists with their illusion of certainty.
>>The various alternative movements of anthroposophy are wonderful, but all such movements are facing hard conditions. First of all they have to constantly do new research to stay alive, but even if they succeed in doing this they will - at least in some countries - be under heavy attack of the rest of society since they don´t have their roots in established science...
******* I don't see the anthroposophical movement as under attack, simply because the vast majority of people have never heard of it. In the past half-century, the only attacks I can recall were when the Lyndon LaRouche movement found out a lot of our members started the Green Party in Germany and started spreading rumors about this weird cult. However, since the LaRouche people were themselves a weird cult, few listened. ;-> And then there's this fellow Dan Dugan who hates the Waldorf schools because they rejected his kids going there.
The early Christians had the Christ Spirit working through them, and just let it do so while living and working in relative obscurity, having their meetings in underground catacombs, appearing to be such an inconsequential thing that the Roman Empire paid no attention to them. In three centuries they conquered it. There is an advantage to not being advertised and talked about everywhere by people who would have very little likelihood of understanding you!
>>For example the anthroposphical medical movement in Sweden has battles with the authorities now and then, and they are under constant danger of being forbidden due to its non-standard ways of testing its medicines and cures etc. Then there is the discussion of if only state-organized schools shall be allowed to exist or if also other schools shall be allowed. The Waldorf schools and other schools are allowed in Sweden, but if I remember correctly the authorities stopped the education of some types of Waldorf teachers, since too much of the course literature had no support in accepted science...
******* There is a danger currently with the European Union bureaucracy developing a list of approved medicines which would be the only ones that can circulate in Europe, and of course our homeopathic medicines might be left off it. The society in Europe is aware of this danger and working against it. I'll look up that information about the petition that is circulating and post it here.
As far as private schools being shut down because of some scientists saying they're not "scientific" enough, I think that's an absurd fear. People don't have THAT much blind faith in science--- the entire "postmodern" movement is based on repudiating the idea that our Western civilization has the sole method of determining truth, and this is largely the opinion of the educated classes today, that no one has a monopoly on truth. They like to hear scientists' opinions about technical things, but do not turn to them for advice about cultural matters, personal choices, etc. Of course the government has the power to do lots of harm, but it does not listen exclusively to scientists about every subject but rather to the entire population in a democracy.
>>I started to write about Sweden here, and you responded with comments about Dornach. For my part I don`t live in Switzerland, so Sweden will always be what matters, although it would of course be interesting to visit Goetheanum and all other places of interest...
******* I wasn't talking about the local society in Switzerland, but about the center and heart of our movement, the Goetheanum with its various sections for education, science, agriculture etc., which anyone really getting into anthroposophy anywhere would want to connect with, and I think wouldn't really be able to make a judgment about where our movement is today without seeing. Every Waldorf school is in contact with it, every medical institution. And it is a thriving community of artists and scientists, arguably the most advanced one of our movement. You can see the vitality of our anthroposophical movement there and form the truest judgment of how it's doing in several ways.
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