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4482Re: Cyanide poisoning...?

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  • christopherraymond_bio
    Jul 12, 2007
      Dear Sheila and Robert,

      Thank you Sheila, I was able to find the lecture called "Preparing
      for the Sixth Epoch", found at the archives.
      http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/PreSix_index.html This is lecture
      13 of a total of 15 from the volume: "The Secret of Death" which
      contains all 15 lectures. However, when I did a search for the "The
      Secret of Death" the closest match I came up with is Peter
      Novak's "The Lost Secret of Death".

      If Mr. Barnes mentioned to you that he apparently knew of no such
      association as being valid from Steiner, then I am wondering if he
      was aware of the quotes made by Tradowsky also.

      Robert, I cannot locate Steiner's lecture of Oct. 10, 1923. It would
      be helpful if we could locate his actual lecture. I am looking for
      the source which Tradowsky and Bondarev are deriving their opinions
      from. In this link which Novak quotes from Tradowsky
      http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=7749 is he also
      quoting Steiner, or is he only quoting from Tradowsky?

      Dear seekers, I am wondering how Tradowsky could mention Cyanide and
      how it was used to murder millions of people, yet Bondarev who is
      apparently sourcing his material from the same place as Tradowsky,
      come to a conclusion that perhaps there could have been no
      Holocaust. I do not downplay Bondarev claiming his impartial stance
      in the matter, for I am in that same situation myself – not sure what
      is the truth of the matter of the Holocaust, however there is
      something missing here and I believe it is the "SOURCE".

      Are there any ideas on where to start looking for this?

      --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, Robert Mason <robertsmason_99@...>
      > To Chris, who wrote:
      > >>Bondarev touches upon Cyanide and the
      > negative effects of this susbtance on the Soul
      > of Man. . . .
      > >>I'm unable to locate the orignal material
      > stemming from Rudolf Steiner.<<
      > Robert writes:
      > I'm glad that someone is reading those Bondy
      > quotes that I so laboriously typed out. -- In
      > the passage that you posted Bondarev cites
      > Steiner's lecture of Oct. 10, 1923: the same
      > one that "Novaliz" quotes from Tradowsky.
      > Bondarev immediately follows with a comparison
      > to the Atlantean catastrophe: "Let us merely
      > recall the consequences of playing with black
      > magic in the epoch of Old Atlantis." IMO
      > Bondarev's argument here is one of his more
      > dubious assertions in that book. It does seem
      > somewhat speculative to me to state as a fact
      > that a global ecological catastrophe would
      > follow from six million deaths by cyanide. It
      > does seem to be a plausible hypothesis worth
      > consideration; thus I quoted it.
      > But perhaps Bondarev was not "speculating" in
      > the ordinary sense of the word. He does claim
      > to be pursuing a "Goethean" investigation of
      > contemporary politics; perhaps that
      > "hypothesis" is a result of his *anschauender
      > Urteilungskraft*? Maybe; but to me it is still
      > somewhat dubious.
      > Chris wrote:
      > >>I am seeking the proper context in which we
      > are to correctly under this death by cyanide.
      > Please correct me if I am mistaken friends, but
      > is this idea not "slightly reactionary" being
      > that it is unlikely for anything to destroy the
      > Soul?<<
      > Robert writes:
      > That lecture to the workmen is the only one (of
      > which I am aware) in which Steiner remarks upon
      > this theme. I think it might be well to recall
      > the standard *caveat* that Steiner gave
      > regarding the published lecture transcripts:
      > they may contain mistakes. I think that we
      > should use caution in building towering
      > conclusions upon a few sketchy statements that
      > were not (as far as we know) repeated and
      > explained elsewhere. In reading these
      > transcripts we need always to try to compare,
      > collate, and fit single remarks into the
      > totality of Steiner's teachings.
      > When considering a puzzling remark such as this
      > about "the true death of soul and spirit" by
      > cyanide poisoning, I am cautious in two
      > directions. I don't quite believe that
      > anything other than one's own profound moral
      > transgressions could cause the death of one's
      > soul, much less one's spirit. On the other
      > hand, I take it that Steiner is telling us
      > something very important and very credible
      > about dire consequences of cyanide poisoning; I
      > would surely try to avoid (insofar as I have
      > the power) killing anyone by cyanide.
      > My opinion, for what it's worth.
      > Robert Mason
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