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4422Politics (was: Re: [steiner] Re: Ramtha/Politics)

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  • Stephen Hale
    May 31, 2007
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      --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "Durward Starman" <DrStarman@...>
      wrote:
      >
      >
      > >Well Starman, let's size this matter up. First of all, I'm not
      > >interested in debating anything, which I leave to politicians, and
      > >others so inclined. Rather, I like to state my views based on my
      > >thoughts and experiences...
      >
      >
      > ******* Well, Steve, to size it up, that makes it sound like
      you're trying
      > to place your views above all categories and debates. But it seems
      to me
      > that all your statements so far have been left-wing. That's fine
      if people
      > admit it, like our correspondent from England. It's the dodging I
      don't
      > like. You should just say what your premises are. Pro-abortion,
      for
      > instance? Pre-euthanasia? Anti-free market? Well , then, if it
      walks like a
      > duck, and quacks like a duck....

      No, my views are mine alone, like any good individualist; not above
      or below anyone else. And what make me left-wing; living in
      Washington? No, I think it's your poli-sci saavy working its way
      here. It says: "Tell me what side you're on"!
      >
      > I'm against government control of our schools, against
      government
      > regulation of the economy, for the free market, want the majority
      of
      > government functions privatized, and for free ownership of guns.
      If someone
      > said I sound like a Libertarian it'd be pretty silly to deny it.
      (By the
      > way, the first two positions are also quite emphatically Rudolf
      Steiner's.)

      So, what does free ownership of guns mean? Don't we have enough of
      those nasty things without free ownership?
      >
      >
      > You see, I hold to the concept of ethical
      > >individualism, as espoused in Steiner's philosophical opus.
      > >Therefore, statistical analysis, which the american folk soul is
      > >forced to take heed of as being somehow of paramount importance,
      > >doesn't mean much to me. To me, it's a trick designed to sway
      > >public opinion, pigeon-hole the human sectors, and create certain
      > >stereotypical models, all of which serve the controlling interests
      > >of and behind government.
      >
      >
      > *******I've studied the Philosophie der Freiheit for 30 years, and
      Steiner's
      > other philosophical works, and there's nothing in any of them that
      says
      > demographics are false or should be ignored. Thiat's just
      nonsense. It's
      > true Steiner said we in the Western Hemisphere tend to rely on
      them too
      > extensively. But when Steiner was asked where to put the
      Anthroposophical
      > Society in the US, for instance, he suggested Chicago, and why?
      Because he
      > knew from studying the demographics of America that there were
      lots of
      > Germans there. This idea that he opposed science, testing, judging
      > statistics, is applesauce. This is, as is all too often the case,
      reading
      > one's own opinions into anthroposophy.

      Ok, well yes, Steiner thought alot of social statistics; probably in
      order to prove the efficacy of the three-fold social order and its
      importance for humankind. But I never said anything about him
      opposing any form of such, now did I? No, it sounds rather like you
      putting words in my mouth. And as for the ASiA, obviously
      demographics means nothing today, as it now resides in Ann Arbor,
      Michigan.
      >
      > >
      > >Now, of course, I never said 'you're not a libertarian', because
      you
      > >are! You jusr proved it. I said, "You call yourself a
      libertarian,
      > >or possibly even a "green party" member."
      >
      > *******Here's your actual words:
      > "You call yourself a libertarian, or possibly even a "green party"
      > member, but its nothing more than a weak little smoke-screen for
      > right-wing conservative, republican affiliations. And please don't
      > think you fooled anybody."
      >
      > ******* There has been no response to the correction I already
      made that I
      > criticize the Green Party heavily and have never in any way
      claimed to be a
      > member, contrary to the impression you created there. The Greens
      are
      > flat-out Communists. I would never call myself one.

      Well, what do you think makes them communists in your view? Too
      radical for your taste?
      >
      > What you apparently hate is Republicans or right-wing
      conservatives, so
      > you're accusing me of being one and only pretending to be of the
      Libertarian
      > Party---in other words, calling me a liar. And saying I was out to
      fool
      > people. Well, sorry, but I don't like that kind of behavior from
      people on
      > this list.

      If you were a liar, I would call you that to your face. And I don't
      take this allegation lightly. Re-think it.
      >
      > Find a conservative in favor of legalizing drugs or who is also
      an
      > astrologer. Not likely.

      What can I say.
      >
      >
      > >
      > >I thought libertarianism concerned freedom allowed with as little
      > >government interference as possible. In other words, downsize the
      > >agencies not needed, reduce spending, and let people govern their
      > >own lives without the watchdog called 'government'. Instead, as
      we
      > >all can readily see, Big Brother grows larger and more ominous
      > >everyday. So, where does the modern, or maybe it's post-modern
      > >libertarian fit in today?
      > >
      > *******Now this is more like how to debate. Quite right,
      libertarians favor
      > less government control. But there are two camps, the anarchists
      and the
      > minimalists. I'm in the latter. We want governement to be as
      little as
      > possible. So the positions one takes turn on how you answer the
      question,
      > What is the proper role of government? What should it do and not
      do?
      >
      > I don't think we are so weak that we need the government to
      protect us
      > from all the Big, Bad Capitalist Millionaires out there. In fact,
      the only
      > way to monopolize things in a free market is to get the
      government ---which
      > has the sole legitimate use of force--- on your side. So the
      problem is not
      > that people amass fortunes but that the government has the power
      to do what
      > they bribe it to do. Sharply limit government power and capital is
      no
      > threat, because the legislators don't have the power to do what
      you want to
      > bribe them to do. That's called separation of the economic from
      the
      > political sphere---- incidentally, a basic of Steiner's threefold
      ideas.
      >
      > Starman

      So, basically you agree that a shadow government of greedy and power-
      mongering capitalists rules the official government?

      Steve
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