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1267Re: [steiner] Re: to experience thinking

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  • Carol
    Oct 18, 2002
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      From my reading of your post I would conclude that you find
      Kuhliwind's fundamental distinctions to be a bunch of crap.
      Is that the case?

      Best Wishes,

      Carol

      P.S. please resond to me offline if you feel that others are
      not interested in this topic. I only post it in the group
      because I am tweeking it a bit, and, perhaps, it is moving in
      a direction of more interest.


      Starman wrote:
      >
      > *******Three responses and there will not be any more.
      > First, for the third
      > time, Steiner himself says NOT to to take a piece of the
      > book here and there
      > separated from the whole and think about it, so I'm not
      > going to do so with
      > you anymore. We would have to take up the book as a whole
      > again to answer
      > your questions properly.
      >
      > Second, this is undoubtedly far too pedantic for the
      > other people on this
      > list to have any interest in. In order to TRY to make it
      > relevant to them, I
      > ought to explain that before Steiner began his "spiritual
      > science", he worked
      > and wrote as a philosopher for almost 20 years, and the
      > Philosophie der
      > Freiheit (sometimes translated as the Philosophy of
      > Freedom, although Steiner
      > was quite definite that the title in English should be the
      > Philosophy of
      > Spiritual Activity) was his major work. We read it together
      > here last
      > Christmas, but many people now on the list were not here
      > then. Steiner many
      > times spoke about it as a path whereby one could become
      > aware of the spirit
      > through your thinking, but a path that most people in our
      > time cannot walk.
      > Many of the older generation of anthroposophists used it,
      > and so have I. Lutz
      > is asking some questions he had left over from last
      > Christmas, when we read
      > it here.
      >
      > And now third and finally, I'll address the specifics.
      > In the third
      > chapter of the book, Steiner has led anyone working with it
      > to the point of
      > observing his or her own thinking. As the book is a
      > dynamic, of course anyone
      > working with it will be continuing to do so through all the
      > later chapter
      > s.The effect the book can have on the student is dependent
      > upon this. You
      > will find no new or radically different description of
      > thinking in later
      > chapters, but rather the thoughts given their are
      > experienced differently
      > when you observe your own thinking of them. Chapter 8 is
      > merely a 5-page
      > recapitulation of the first seven chapters, the first half
      > of the book. In
      > the addition (actually just like a large footnote) to
      > chapter 8 which you
      > referred to, Steiner mentions "life in thinking". You
      > asserted yesterday that
      > this is some new thinking different from the self-conscious
      > thinking one
      > experiences from chapter 3 onwards. I answered that this
      > is not so. What you
      > were doing there was taking a striking phrase in a footnote
      > and making it
      > sound as if it were the enunciation of a whole new
      > doctrine. It is not.
      > Steiner is not saying that the thinking one experiences
      > from chapter 3
      > onwards is deficient, nor is he describing the fact that
      > one can only observe
      > the thinking one has already done as a problem one must try
      > to surmount. You
      > will find nowhere in the Philosophy of Spiritual Activity
      > the idea that we
      > have to try to observe our thinking as we think, in order
      > to get somewhere.
      > When he speaks in the footnote you quote from about
      > "failing to grasp the
      > essential nature of thinking" and "having only the corpse
      > of living
      > thinking", he is not referring to this fact that we can
      > only observe thinking
      > we've already done, but that people do not observe the
      > living activity of
      > their thinking and see themselves as thinker but ONLY the
      > finished thought,
      > and hence conclude that feeling or will is more "alive".
      > "Living in thinking"
      > refers to spiritually alive thinking, conscious of itself
      > (what Aristotle
      > called the "actuality of thinking"), not to the impossible
      > condition of
      > observing thinking one hasn't yet finished doing. It's not
      > that thinking is
      > not "alive" to many people because you can only observe
      > thinking you've
      > already done, as you're attempting to argue, nor is he
      > saying that the true
      > nature of thinking is "elusive" to many people because of
      > this fact, but for
      > quite other reasons. You're taking a few phrases from
      > chapters 8 and 9 and
      > contrasting them with chapter 3 (or more accurately, with
      > what one can
      > experience after working with the first three chapters),
      > but going through
      > the chapters sequentially and developing one's thinking as
      > the book is
      > intended to do would not lead to this narrow viewpoint
      > based on a few
      > snippets of text here and there.
      >
      > I recommend reading the excellent book "Rudolf Steiner
      > on his Book The
      > Philosophy of Freedom" by Otto Palmer, available from the
      > Rudolf Steiner
      > library. If you would like to discuss the book with me any
      > further though,
      > I'd suggest you do so off list, because the group as a
      > whole isn't working
      > with it and would not be able to participate. It's not a
      > path appropriate for
      > many people. Hope this is of some help.
      >
      > Dr. Starman
      >
      > http://www.DrStarman.net
      >


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